Wow, there are some SERIOUS scumbags in Australia.

[Frizzle Fry]

Several of my family members have been awarded medals for their service in uniform. Being the only collector of militaria in the family (and only person who cares really) I've received most of the uniforms, weapons, gear, medals and other things left by my deceased relatives. Having been a service member only briefly, and reserve at that, I don't have any of my own.

Today, I was trying to find the vintage of my uncle Walters "Silver Star for Gallantry in Action" (he served in Vietnam and the Gulf) and came across this via Google search:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/CASED-SET-US-ARMY-SILVER-STAR-COMBAT-GALLANTRY-MEDAL--_W0QQitemZ400111898995QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ2010032 9?IMSfp=TL1003292110001r5852


For those who didn't read the whole advertisement (yes they advertised this fact, though I personally was aware) has always been illegal to wear "Walt" medals or "Mitties", essentially a medal for service that you didn't earn, but you could lie and say your received them. Since 2006 it has been illegal to do ANYTHING with a medal (yours, or otherwise) including selling, buying, trading, wearing, replicating, mailing, shipping, destroying or otherwise "messing around with" them. Really all you can do is inherit one.

I found this, logged in, and asked politely if they'd ship to the US. They said "yes" and that they ship a lot, but they don't advertise it because it's illegal. It's been reported :mad:

[Frizzle Fry]

I really hope our State Department gets involved. I checked on their statement about the "legality" and "genuine nature" of what they're selling, and the story is all full of holes. Now that the Obama administration considers Australia in its "top tier of allies" or whatever, maybe they'll put a stop to this BS. I'm surprised that a nanny government like AU would let this happen.

[Army]

Technically, the law reads you cannot profit in any way from the wearing of, and falsifying the awarding of, medals considered valorous. Otherwise, Hollywood and theatre groups could never perform any military themed production.

You can be a douchebag and wear lots of medals and lie about it, but as soon as you or your orginization makes any sort of financial or physical property gain....the boom gets lowered.

It is, however, illegal to wear an MOH for any reason if you have not been awarded the medal (movies and theatre excepted)

All US military medals and awards are made in America by law.

[Frizzle Fry]

It is, however, illegal to wear an MOH for any reason if you have not been awarded the medal (movies and theatre excepted)

In 2006 the law apparently was not only expanded in regulations, but also expanded to include other medals. I'm not 100% sure what that entails for the Silver Star, but I do know it's a similar restriction and punishment to what was originally offered up for those claiming an MOH that was not theres. Either way, these people disgust me. If they intended them for collectors, why leave them blank?

[CatoRockwell]

Why does a law like this exist? Once it is awarded it is private property. If someone wants to sell their great uncle's MOH to a collector what is wrong with that? He needs the money, the other one wants it as part of his collection.

I'm sorry if I'm missing something, but this seems like a pretty stupid law.

[xero28]

Why does a law like this exist? Once it is awarded it is private property. If someone wants to sell their great uncle's MOH to a collector what is wrong with that? He needs the money, the other one wants it as part of his collection.

I'm sorry if I'm missing something, but this seems like a pretty stupid law.


I'm not in the military, but I respect those who are. Unfortunately, there are people out there who impersonate decorated soldiers for personal gain. Yes, these medals can be collector's items and very valuable, but people who have never been in the military go around wearing these things looking for respect and many looking for freebies. They are preying on the patriotism of many Americans.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/fake-war-hero-ignites-anger-9776894

[CatoRockwell]

I'm not in the military, but I respect those who are. Unfortunately, there are people out there who impersonate decorated soldiers for personal gain. Yes, these medals can be collector's items and very valuable, but people who have never been in the military go around wearing these things looking for respect and many looking for freebies. They are preying on the patriotism of many Americans.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/fake-war-hero-ignites-anger-9776894
So there needs to be a law? I mean if you give someone special treatment because of a medal, you take the chance that they are an impostor. Thats the way it is, people need to learn to use their best judgment.

I mean that is angering, but making a law doesn't fix anything it just adds one more piece of BS for a law abiding citizen who wants to form a collection to deal with.

Why is everyone's solution to a problem: There should be a law about this?

[Frizzle Fry]

http://www.amazon.com/Stolen-Valor-Vietnam-Generation-History/dp/096670360X

A good read (no I didn't write it and I'm not selling it).



Here are some other fakers, some more serious and others more obscene.

http://www.vawatchdog.org/09/nf09/nfdec09/nf122409-1.htm

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/12/fake.veteran/index.html

http://blog.employeescreen.com/2008/12/11/vietnam-veteran-charged-with-violation-of-the-stolen-valor-act-of-2005/

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=63172


How many bums on the street do you see panhandling with signs that say they served overseas? How many of them are too young for the first Gulf War but clearly didn't serve in the second? How many people, forget the famous ones, try to capitalize on the actions of others? Servicemen and women are serving our country and protecting our way of life. If they're awarded for their valor, they're not being awarded for anything self-serving like the writing of a song or directing of a movie. These people are being awarded for risking their life to preserve the lives of people back home.

Many of my grandfathers squadron-mates (5 AF) have been had by these jokers... Elderly WWII vets are, unfortunately, reaching the end of their lives. Those who survive still are watching their former comrades (those who survived) die of old age and feel increasingly isolated. Many are of an age where they do not have full mental facilities, and are ripe targets for younger "wannabe" vets who take advantage financially.

These guys don't just hog attention; they eat up VA funds, gain support (financial and otherwise) by what essentially amounts to grifting, and generally cause trouble.

I personally think these guys are just as low as fake Katrina victims and fake 9/11 victims, if not more so.

[xero28]

So there needs to be a law? I mean if you give someone special treatment because of a medal, you take the chance that they are an impostor. Thats the way it is, people need to learn to use their best judgment.

I mean that is angering, but making a law doesn't fix anything it just adds one more piece of BS for a law abiding citizen who wants to form a collection to deal with.

Why is everyone's solution to a problem: There should be a law about this?


I agree, but I'm just playing devil's advocate here. Taking it to more of an extreme level, that's also why there are laws that you can't dress up as a law enforcement officers.

I think it also goes to security issues at places like military bases and other secure locations. Someone dresses up like a 5 star general (or whatever) and someone who doesn't know better and is intimidated by them allows them access to places they shouldn't be.

[Ando]

So there needs to be a law? I mean if you give someone special treatment because of a medal, you take the chance that they are an impostor. Thats the way it is, people need to learn to use their best judgment.

I mean that is angering, but making a law doesn't fix anything it just adds one more piece of BS for a law abiding citizen who wants to form a collection to deal with.

Why is everyone's solution to a problem: There should be a law about this?WTH!!!

You do not question someone wearing a Bronze Star, Distinguished Service Cross...especially a Medal of F'en Valor (aka honor)...You buy that person his drinks for the night, talk war stories till closing (if in a VFW...we call them "War Lies" :p ) and kiss his *** to no end. To question someone with any of the top 10 medals is like slapping them in the face. 99% of the time, they went through hell and back to get it and usually come out missing something (fingers, limbs, sight or mind).

If you had been in the military, you wouldn't be asking a :tard: question like that and would know why we need laws such as this one on the books. Without laws like these, you might as well spit on ever person who received them. Point and case the A-Hole in the link Xero posted.

[CatoRockwell]

WTH!!!

You do not question someone wearing a Bronze Star, Distinguished Service Cross...especially a Medal of F'en Valor (aka honor)...You buy that person his drinks for the night, talk war stories till closing (if in a VFW...we call them "War Lies" :p ) and kiss his *** to no end. To question someone with any of the top 10 medals is like slapping them in the face. 99% of the time, they went through hell and back to get it and usually come out missing something (fingers, limbs, sight or mind).

If you had been in the military, you wouldn't be asking a :tard: question like that and would know why we need laws such as this one on the books. Without laws like these, you might as well spit on ever person who received them. Point and case the A-Hole in the link Xero posted.
Well i wont stoop to calling you names, i agree its disrespectful but any idiot stupid enough to allow someone into a secure location just because they have a medal deserves what they get. I agree there should be laws to prevent impersonation of government officials. But as far as i can tell you dont get into secure facilities just because you earned a MOH.

If you think i have any disrespect for our men in uniform you are sorely mistaken. Stating that an individual who has not been allowed the opportunity to serve doesnt have a valid point just because they arent a soldier is a load. I am a citizen that is all that should matter.

I am not disagreeing with you that vets should be held in high esteem, i am disagreeing with a law regarding the purchase of memorobilia. This is supposed to be a free country and if someone wants to start a collection they have the right to purchase whatsoever they choose. Sure there are impostors, but unless someone is attempting to act with the item in an a way that poses a danger to the public or government security, then they arent doing anything that would require a law. Sure they are scum for misleading people with unearned respect, but walki g around wearing a medal does not pose a violation to our liberty.

[Ando]

Well i wont stoop to calling you names, i agree its disrespectful but any idiot stupid enough to allow someone into a secure location just because they have a medal deserves what they get. I agree there should be laws to prevent impersonation of government officials. But as far as i can tell you dont get into secure facilities just because you earned a MOH.

If you think i have any disrespect for our men in uniform you are sorely mistaken. Stating that an individual who has not been allowed the opportunity to serve doesnt have a valid point just because they arent a soldier is a load. I am a citizen that is all that should matter.

I am not disagreeing with you that vets should be held in high esteem, i am disagreeing with a law regarding the purchase of memorobilia. This is supposed to be a free country and if someone wants to start a collection they have the right to purchase whatsoever they choose. Sure there are impostors, but unless someone is attempting to act with the item in an a way that poses a danger to the public or government security, then they arent doing anything that would require a law. Sure they are scum for misleading people with unearned respect, but walki g around wearing a medal does not pose a violation to our liberty.

ROFL...It takes more then a wave of a medal to get into a gov facility and I'll stoop to calling you name cause your an idiot for thinking that and for calling the Medal of Honor "memorabilia". It's not something you pick up at the duty free zone after coming back from some crap hole war torn country. I been in 3 conflicts myself and I tell you what. When I hear people talk about something they have no clue about, it gets my goat to no end. This conversation is way way way over your head.

[CatoRockwell]

ROFL...It take more then a wave of a medal to get into a gov facility and I'll stoop to calling you name cause your an idiot for thinking that and for calling the Medal of Honor "memorabilia". It's not something you pick up at the duty free zone after coming back from some crap hole war torn country. I been in 3 conflicts myself and I tell you what. When I hear people talk about something they have no clue about, it gets my goat to no end. This conversation is way way way over your head.
Sad dude. I am not disagreeing that it is disrespectful, but list one constitutional reason there should be a federal mandate against purchasing medals. If you think it is so wrong, maybe you should be mad at the individual who was willing to sell it in the first place.

Calling me an idiot doesnt make your argument any more valid. I'm sorry that my beliefs on the purpose of Law get you so fired up, but i dont see how someone purchasing a medal violates anyones freedoms. A more logical conclusion would be to create a contract so that those receiving the medal cannot sell them. Rather than punishing the consumer who may have no dishonorable intent, the military should seek to enforce said contract with the awardee.

Writing up such a contract requires no additional laws and therefore doesnt violate any freedoms since both parties signed it willingly.

I appreciate your service and wish that i was allowed the same opportunity, but i was medically disqualified. I intend no disrespect to our servicemen, but only seek to prevent the violation of American freedom.

Hopefully you can see this, i dont think you are an idiot, i respect many of the posts youve made here. I am simply seeking to point out the dangers of the federal gov. overstepping their bounds and that there is a solution that requires no such law.

[SCpoloRicker]

There are several websites chronicling these yahoos. There have been some pretty serious call-outs of folks.

[pillage]

Openly wearing something that was not awarded to you, is a sure sign of being a scumbag. The law against doing it, was meant to prevent someone claiming honors which they had not earned. By falsely claiming honors to which one was not entitled, cheapens those same honors to those that got them the hard way. :mad:

[Ando]

Calling me an idiot doesnt make your argument any more valid.
Yes it does...
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/code%20pink.bmp

EDIT:

And before you make yourself look anymore idiotic. Do some research before you say another word. Every single person receiving these awards are bound by law to not sell, give, barter, exchange...etc...etc...of said medals.

I'm sure you'll have some "My feedoms are being violated" complaint over these laws too...

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000711----000-.html
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000711---a000-.html

[CatoRockwell]

Yes it does...
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/code%20pink.bmp

EDIT:

And before you make yourself look anymore idiotic. Do some research before you say another word. Every single person receiving these awards are bound by law to not sell, give, barter, exchange...etc...etc...of said medals.

I'm sure you'll have some "My feedoms are being violated" complaint over these laws too...

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000711----000-.html
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000711---a000-.html
Im just curious, what is your problem? Did you even read what i said?

I know there is a law, what ive been saying is there is no need for that law to exist. As for your comment about dissidents, guess who our founding fathers were? Dissidents.

What blows my mind is that despite my attempts to respect your views and be civil, you continue to respond like a child from PBN. If you wish to discuss the subject i would be happy to continue.

I wasnt arguing what is already a law, i know thats the law, i was discussing whether the law should exist.

[mr.mag218]

the answer is yes. end of argument. if you want even a slight clue as to how highly respected any medal is i first suggest you ask a serviceman to walk with him through the mall. people will offer him dinner, lunch, clothes everything short of a happy ending. put a medal of honor on that uniform, and people should place him on a throne and carry him.

its not the medals themselves people are respecting (or that the laws are protecting) as its not a jewelry item. these prestige's are awarded for actions taken to save others lives and the respect is given by citizens in recognition of these brave actions. the laws are there to protect the valor these people have displayed to earn such high regard in the military and so no schmuck can go around flaunting what they can only wish to achieve in life.

-on a sidenote if you ever see someone with a purple heart and want to know if they really earned it, just ask and there are 2 quick ways to tell
1) he pulls a forest gump and shows you his ***
2) you wake up in the hospital, with little recollection of what happend
:cheers:

[drg]

This could make a good movie prop.

[Ando]

Im just curious, what is your problem? Did you even read what i said?

I know there is a law, what ive been saying is there is no need for that law to exist. As for your comment about dissidents, guess who our founding fathers were? Dissidents.

What blows my mind is that despite my attempts to respect your views and be civil, you continue to respond like a child from PBN. If you wish to discuss the subject i would be happy to continue.

I wasnt arguing what is already a law, i know thats the law, i was discussing whether the law should exist.
Really...PBN kid? You speaking your mind about something you know nothing about is more along those lines. You're no better then the ingrate trying to sell off the "memorabilia" and plz do explain why you think there's no need for this law. Besides you calling it a "pretty stupid law", you've given butkus. How on earth do you expect anyone to have a discussion with someone who know nothing on the subject mater?


As for your comment about dissidents, guess who our founding fathers were? Dissidents.
Ya ok and who coined that name for our founding fathers? No one on this side of the pond I can tell ya. You go ahead and call them dissidents, I on the other hand will call them for what they really were....Patriots.

[DevilMan]

Ya ok and who coined that name for our founding fathers? No one on this side of the pond I can tell ya. You go ahead and call them dissidents, I on the other hand will call them for what they really were....Patriots.

Actually they were traitors if they were anything.

I mean truth be told, they went against the government right? So yeah... sorry Ando, but I gotta call it that way... I wouldn't say that the founding fathers were patriots... well not in the beginning anyway.

DM

[Ando]

Actually they were traitors if they were anything.

I mean truth be told, they went against the government right? So yeah... sorry Ando, but I gotta call it that way... I wouldn't say that the founding fathers were patriots... well not in the beginning anyway.

DM
Touche :cheers:

[DevilMan]

And as for the original issue on this thread...

It's not illegal to do this stuff around the rest of the world. It's their rules. NOW, if they want to ship to the US and they KNOW and STATE that it's illegal to do so, then sure, report it. As for them doing it... it's legal where they are. It may be illegal here to eat cats and dogs. But other places in the world its more than normal. It's the way it is guys...

DM

[CatoRockwell]

Really...PBN kid? You speaking your mind about something you know nothing about is more along those lines. You're no better then the ingrate trying to sell off the "memorabilia" and plz do explain why you think there's no need for this law. Besides you calling it a "pretty stupid law", you've given butkus. How on earth do you expect anyone to have a discussion with someone who know nothing on the subject mater?


Ya ok and who coined that name for our founding fathers? No one on this side of the pond I can tell ya. You go ahead and call them dissidents, I on the other hand will call them for what they really were....Patriots.

I understand the purpose of law, you need to learn to respect views different than your own. I have stated again and again, that what these people do is wrong, a fact which you refuse to recognize.

What you keep failing to address is the purpose of law. To protect people from having their freedoms violated. As much as I hate flag burning, impersonation of our troops, these individuals are not violating anyone's rights.

If you make it an issue of contract than those in violation of the contract can be legally sought after. However, there is no need for a federal law.

It's sad that you call me names even though I agree with you, I just don't agree with the solution.

Addressing your comment about dissidents. Lets look at the definition:

Mirriam Webster: disagreeing especially with an established religious or political system, organization, or belief

So it wasn't the british labeling them as dissident, they were dissidents by definition since they disagreed with the established government. There is nothing wrong with being a dissident, in fact if you have any disagreement with the current administration then you too my friend are a dissident.

maybe if you weren't so busy getting your dander up, you would realize that I am not against you. I am simply stating that it is not the duty of a law to prevent disrespect towards our troops. It is our private duty to respect our fighting men.

Your continuous resorting to name calling only further proves that you are not willing to address the problem of giving this kind of authority to government or my proposed solution to the problem.

I would think that a respected member of AO could show a little more maturity in dealing with a person who means him nor our troops any ill will or disrespect. I am simply addressing the issue that this problem does not need to be solved by law.

To answer your question: A simple contract binding the servicemen to not sell the medal would be more than enough to present a case in court for breach of contract. This would also allow those who have history collections to obtain these items legally, so long as the contract permits exchange to museums or private collections. Each branch can determine what the contract will entail, this way if a serviceman sells his decorations he will be in breach of contract, not the private citizen who signed no such agreement.

Problem solved, no law.

[ProblemKinder]

WTH!!!

You do not question someone wearing a Bronze Star, Distinguished Service Cross...especially a Medal of F'en Valor (aka honor)...You buy that person his drinks for the night, talk war stories till closing (if in a VFW...we call them "War Lies" :p ) and kiss his *** to no end. To question someone with any of the top 10 medals is like slapping them in the face. 99% of the time, they went through hell and back to get it and usually come out missing something (fingers, limbs, sight or mind).

If you had been in the military, you wouldn't be asking a :tard: question like that and would know why we need laws such as this one on the books. Without laws like these, you might as well spit on ever person who received them. Point and case the A-Hole in the link Xero posted.

I was in the military. I agree with Cato. People who worship 4 star generals just because they're 4 star generals are pathetic. In my experience the majority of the people who make high rank are the ones too scared to leave the military, and SOMEBODY has to get promoted.

medals are different than rank obviously, but you still don't know the conditions under which they received the medal. some medals get handed out like candy. I'll get to know somebody before I consider them worthy of free drinks funded by my checking account, regardless of how shiny their chest is.

[ProblemKinder]

ROFL...It takes more then a wave of a medal to get into a gov facility and I'll stoop to calling you name cause your an idiot for thinking that and for calling the Medal of Honor "memorabilia". It's not something you pick up at the duty free zone after coming back from some crap hole war torn country. I been in 3 conflicts myself and I tell you what. When I hear people talk about something they have no clue about, it gets my goat to no end. This conversation is way way way over your head.


you should probably read more carefully dude...


Well i wont stoop to calling you names, i agree its disrespectful but any idiot stupid enough to allow someone into a secure location just because they have a medal deserves what they get. I agree there should be laws to prevent impersonation of government officials. But as far as i can tell you dont get into secure facilities just because you earned a MOH.


he agrees with you :rolleyes:

[ProblemKinder]

Yes it does...
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/code%20pink.bmp

EDIT:

And before you make yourself look anymore idiotic. Do some research before you say another word. Every single person receiving these awards are bound by law to not sell, give, barter, exchange...etc...etc...of said medals.

I'm sure you'll have some "My feedoms are being violated" complaint over these laws too...

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000711----000-.html
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000711---a000-.html

you sir, are an idiot. that is all.

[Ando]

First of all, I'm taking 0 responsibility for what I say when I'm knee deep in the bottle. :cheers:
Wow...Damage control for myself is going to be hell on this thread... :rofl:


I understand the purpose of law, you need to learn to respect views different than your own. I have stated again and again, that what these people do is wrong, a fact which you refuse to recognize.
I'm willing to bet way smarter people then you and I had this debated before it became law. With that said, you understand the purpose of the law but you think it's unconstitutional because it somehow violates the persons freedoms to buy something? Well, I want a Mark 19 and I'm sure Durka Durka over there would love a nuclear war head but guess what, fat chance of that ever happening cause it's against the law to have them. Are our rights being violated? No they're not...Owning something like that is illegal as hell and is also how the government views these medals. Laws are in place for many reasons, more then i can think of and I would really like you to show me where it states in our Constitution that Joe Schmo has a constitutional right to go out and purchase a Medal of Honor at his local Piggly Wiggly. You show me that and I'll concede. Until then, anything you say and have said is moot. How about we toss out the Bill of Rights and see how that plays out.


What you keep failing to address is the purpose of law. To protect people from having their freedoms violated. As much as I hate flag burning, impersonation of our troops, these individuals are not violating anyone's rights.
You keep failing to understand the reasoning behind these laws. Laws like desecrating the flag (yes there is a law against burning, mutilating, even pooping on it) or impersonating a government official is a violation because it's a law passed by the people we appointed, our Congressmen and President. In a nutshell, a law is a belief that someone felt very strong about, stood up for the piece of legislation they wrote and got the majorly vote from Congress and the Presidents hancock.

Burning the flag is a violation of our governments rights, the rights of ever service members and every damn red blooded American whether they believe in it or not. It's a federal law that each and everyone of us will abide by or you'll go to jail. If you have a issue with it, you can take it up with your congressmen and see if he'll take on your cause to get it removed.

A belief is a powerful thing and is all it takes. Add in a few specialist willing to testify on behalf of the legislation and you basically have a law suitable for congress to vote on.


If you make it an issue of contract than those in violation of the contract can be legally sought after. However, there is no need for a federal law.

It's sad that you call me names even though I agree with you, I just don't agree with the solution.
Who are we to say what the government can and can't do with these awards. They're the ones who awarded the service members, they can choose to take any measures they deem fit when protecting said property. Case in point the Oscars. Everyone receiving one of those statues are bound by contract to not sell or give away, if they don't agree, the statue stays in their vault, even if the person won it. Same goes with these medals, they are tracked by The Institute of Heraldry which every medal awarded is put in this huge database.

There is a need for federal laws when it comes to sensitive items such as these and the gov can go to any measures to protect them just as we can with our own property.



Addressing your comment about dissidents. Lets look at the definition:

Mirriam Webster: disagreeing especially with an established religious or political system, organization, or belief

So it wasn't the british labeling them as dissident, they were dissidents by definition since they disagreed with the established government. There is nothing wrong with being a dissident.
Whatever that was a bad joke.



maybe if you weren't so busy getting your dander up, you would realize that I am not against you. I am simply stating that it is not the duty of a law to prevent the dishonor of our troops.
You are against me just for saying that :rofl: and who's going to prevent it? You? The military? I seriously doubt you'll like the outcome of that one. :shooting:



I would think that a respected member of AO could show a little more maturity in dealing with a person who means him nor our troops any ill will or disrespect. I am simply addressing the issue that this problem does not need to be solved by law.
See, now there lies your problem, you thinking I'm respectable. :rolleyes:

You've shown nothing but disrespect calling these service medals collectors items and memorabilia which we all can see mean nothing to you but mean the world to each and every service member and their families.

But I digress....Thies memorabilia winners gave you this freedom of speech, gave you the right to have an opinion, gave you everything your enjoy right now, which we see you eating up. So you go a head and wipe your back side with these freedoms.

There's nothing sweeter then demeaning those that gave their lives so you can have a better one.

If they had the choice to turn back the clock. I promise you, they wouldn't change a thing.

There ya go. Is that civil enough for you. :cool:

[Ando]

you sir, are an idiot. that is all.
Who pulled your string :tard:

[Sumthinwicked]

Who pulled your string :tard:
ur always good for getting to the point and making me laugh after LOL

[ProblemKinder]

Who pulled your string :tard:

I typically don't get involved in such debates (I know little to nothing about law) but I guess I was just getting frustrated as you consistantly proved that you weren't even reading anything CatoRockwell said. Also your style of 'debate' was shockingly immature and I was getting rather jealous that you were getting all of the name calling privilages.

[CatoRockwell]

I'm willing to bet way smarter people then you and I had this debated before it became law. With that said, you understand the purpose of the law but you think it's unconstitutional because it somehow violates the persons freedoms to buy something? Well, I want a Mark 19 and I'm sure Durka Durka over there would love a nuclear war head but guess what, fat chance of that ever happening cause it's against the law to have them. Are our rights being violated? No they're not...Owning something like that is illegal as hell and is also how the government views these medals. Laws are in place for many reasons, more then i can think of and I would really like you to show me where it states in our Constitution that Joe Schmo has a constitutional right to go out and purchase a Medal of Honor at his local Piggly Wiggly. You show me that and I'll concede. Until then, anything you say and have said is moot. How about we toss out the Bill of Rights and see how that plays out.

Assuming politicians are way smarter than us is your first mistake. Your second mistake is thinking the government has the right to restrict my weapons purchasing, they don't, period. They also do not have the right to determine what weapons, or items a foreign national may procure in his own nation. We do not have jurisdiction to police the world. If them procuring a nuke is illegal, how come we have so many of them? And what gives u the right to dictate law to a foreign nation?

But that is a completely different argument. The reason I am for a contract and against a law is the simple fact that the purchaser of said items should not be punished, he didn't make any vow to never sell it, only the seller should be punished for breach of contract. What does the Bill of rights have to do with Medals? Maybe there is an amendment I missed, please enlighten me.



You keep failing to understand the reasoning behind these laws. Laws like desecrating the flag (yes there is a law against burning, mutilating, even pooping on it) or impersonating a government official is a violation because it's a law passed by the people we appointed, our Congressmen and President. In a nutshell, a law is a belief that someone felt very strong about, stood up for the piece of legislation they wrote and got the majorly vote from Congress and the Presidents hancock.

Just because I feel really strongly about someone desecrating the bible does not give me legal authority to control another's actions, if they purchased the item, they may do with it as they please. I understand the reasoning behind these laws. It's called people letting emotion cloud their logic. If someone wants to burn a flag that they purchased/made with their own money, then it is their property. The flag is an inanimate object and has no rights. There are lots of laws that people feel strongly about, thats why our founding fathers so feared Democracy/Mobocracy. They set up a constitution to explicitly list what powers the government had, and I don't see flag burning anywhere in the constitution or bill of rights.

What do I care about the "Majority Vote" The Constitution was supposed to protect us from the mindless mob.

"There is nothing more odious than the majority; for it consists of a few powerful leaders, a certain number of accommodating scoundrels and subservient weaklings, and a mass of men who trudge after them without in the least knowing their own minds." - Johann Wolfgang Goethe


Burning the flag is a violation of our governments rights, the rights of ever service members and every damn red blooded American whether they believe in it or not. It's a federal law that each and everyone of us will abide by or you'll go to jail. If you have a issue with it, you can take it up with your congressmen and see if he'll take on your cause to get it removed.

First off, the Government has no rights. List the "rights" it is entitled to in our constitution or bill of rights. It isn't there. Government is not an agent unto itself, it is a tool, set up to defend the liberties of our people. It has no rights, it only has the ability to be an organized authority acting as an agent on our behalf to defend our freedoms. This means that it can have no power that you or I as an individual have. If we do not have said power, then we cannot ask our government to execute it on our behalf.

If you want to burn an inanimate object, no matter how much I may dislike it, as long as it is on your property and is your property, that is your right as a living being.

I am not arguing about what the law IS, I am arguing about how law should be enacted. So continuing to tell me that something is the LAW as if that were a reason unto itself is meaningless in this type of discussion.


Who are we to say what the government can and can't do with these awards. They're the ones who awarded the service members, they can choose to take any measures they deem fit when protecting said property. Case in point the Oscars. Everyone receiving one of those statues are bound by contract to not sell or give away, if they don't agree, the statue stays in their vault, even if the person won it. Same goes with these medals, they are tracked by The Institute of Heraldry which every medal awarded is put in this huge database.

Actually I think you just made my point for me. Is there a law regarding the oscars? No, a simple contract sufficed. I am agreeing that the military should be able to restrict individuals from selling their medals, I am disagreeing with the concept of making a law to solve the problem, when the existing laws regarding contracts already fit the need.


You are against me just for saying that :rofl: and who's going to prevent it? You? The military? I seriously doubt you'll like the outcome of that one. :shooting:

You keep assuming that because I defend someone's right to do something that I myself seek to do the same. You are wrong. Secondly, yes, I believe that if you oppose someone then you need to make an open point of doing so. If someone prancing around in unearned medals was ostracized from his community for such a disrespectful act, you can bet it would keep itself in check pretty well.

I may really get angry when people show disrespect for my religion, but guess what, that doesn't give me a right to go make a law regarding it. So long as they do not prevent me from worshiping as I see fit, or damaging my property, I have no legal right to do anything to them. No offense, but I respect and abhor disrespect towards my God a lot more than I do our troops.



You've shown nothing but disrespect calling these service medals collectors items and memorabilia which we all can see mean nothing to you but mean the world to each and every service member and their families.

But I digress....These memorabilia winners gave you this freedom of speech, gave you the right to have an opinion, gave you everything your enjoy right now, which we all can see you eating up. So you go a head and wipe your back side with these freedoms.

There's nothing sweeter then demeaning those that gave their lives so you can have a better one.

If they had the choice to turn back the clock. I promise you, they wouldn't change a thing.

There ya go. Is that civil enough for you. :cool:

You know what? You're right. I'm sorry that the generic word I used offended you, and I will no longer use that word to describe, awards, medals, rank insignia, etc... I was simply seeking to use a single word that would encompass the entire issue. My bad.

If you think I have no respect for our soldiers you are sorely mistaken. While I may disagree with many of the wars we have fought, I have nothing but respect for our soldiers.

Stop pretending like you are the only one here standing up for our troops. I did not once say I endorsed the disrespect of our troops, I did not once say that I did not hold these men in the highest esteem. I simply stated that it is not an issue for Federal Law to decide.

[DevilMan]

BTW, I am a Veteran. And I fully agree with allowing someone the freedom to burn the flag, tear up a bible, desecrate the koran, and anything else they wish to do with THEIR property. If they choose to do this in public where there is a law prohibiting such actions then they get reprimanded for it accordingly.

But telling someone that they can't do it and making it wrong, just because you don't like it isn't the way things work. Of course I'm also a believer that if you don't like the US and don't want to be here and want to burn the flag in proof of your dislike, then you should be ready to pack your bags and be flown to another country on a 1 way ticket with your US citizenship revoked.

DM

[Ando]

You're right...I'm wrong.

Good day to you sir :cheers:

[ProblemKinder]

You're right...I'm wrong.

Good day to you sir :cheers:

:wow: :eek: