Cheater issues

[damajor]

I recently purchased a cheater setup and can't get my gun to work. The cheater works no problem from what I can tell, it just won't trigger the sear with enough force(not once has it fired the gun). I have tried increasing and decreasing the accuation distance between the sear and plunger with no change. There are no leaks that I an detect from anywhere.

My set up is a Retro valve with a RT on/off standard length pin, AM/MM rail/sear, chimera frame with viperpro trigger, and a tickler (sleeper) LPR.

I have the tickler maxed out with no change. Is it possible the tickler is not delivering a high enough output pressure, even if it's maxed out? I even removed the trigger from the frame to manually trip the cheater pin with no success.

If anyone has some advice it would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

[chafnerjr]

Can you manually trip the sear and fire the marker?

[damajor]

Yes I can. To be honest I was surprised how much force was required...I thought a small tap would trip it but I actually had to push forcefully on it. I backed off the velocity but this did not change things either.



Can you manually trip the sear and fire the marker?

[Ando]

I even removed the trigger from the frame to manually trip the cheater pin with no success.
You might want to rebuild the cheater. Take it apart and oil it.

[om3n]

what sort of on/off are you using? If you have one, try a ULT on/off


I recently purchased a cheater setup and can't get my gun to work. The cheater works no problem from what I can tell, it just won't trigger the sear with enough force(not once has it fired the gun). I have tried increasing and decreasing the accuation distance between the sear and plunger with no change. There are no leaks that I an detect from anywhere.

My set up is a Retro valve with a RT on/off standard length pin, AM/MM rail/sear, chimera frame with viperpro trigger, and a tickler (sleeper) LPR.

I have the tickler maxed out with no change. Is it possible the tickler is not delivering a high enough output pressure, even if it's maxed out? I even removed the trigger from the frame to manually trip the cheater pin with no success.

If anyone has some advice it would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

[flyingpootang]

Yes I can. To be honest I was surprised how much force was required...I thought a small tap would trip it but I actually had to push forcefully on it. I backed off the velocity but this did not change things either.
Sounds like an on/off problem to me. If excessive force is required means your on/off pin is too long or the sear leg is not able to move all the way forward because it's being blocked. Make sure your upper grip screws aren't too long and the sear moves freely forward...

[damajor]

I took the cheater apart, cleaned/inspected and everything appeared okay.

I don't have a ULT and my retro valve is not drilled to accept a one.

I will try a shorter pin in the on/off. I have a .724 or something like that. I used this initially but had not tried moving the cheater away from the sear with this combination...so I will give this a try later tonight and cross my fingers! I have had the grip panels off the entire time will testing so I don't think the screws are messing with the sear.

Should the sear trip relatively easily when tapping it with my finger?

[BigEvil]

Go with a .735 or shorter pin and see if it works better.

[flyingpootang]

I took the cheater apart, cleaned/inspected and everything appeared okay.

I don't have a ULT and my retro valve is not drilled to accept a one.

I will try a shorter pin in the on/off. I have a .724 or something like that. I used this initially but had not tried moving the cheater away from the sear with this combination...so I will give this a try later tonight and cross my fingers! I have had the grip panels off the entire time will testing so I don't think the screws are messing with the sear.

Should the sear trip relatively easily when tapping it with my finger?

If your sear leg is hitting your cheater when gassed up it will not allow the on/off pin to fully open which can cause the symptoms your describing. Just a quick FYI it's a good idea to leave a credit card size gap between your piston/ram and sear leg when aired up. It allows your piston/ram to gain some momentum to actuate the sear more reliably and avoid shoot down....

[Ando]

I even removed the trigger from the frame to manually trip the cheater pin with no success.
Don't think it's his on/off guys. Unless I'm reading it wrong, his cheater isn't working at all.

[flyingpootang]

Can you manually trip the sear and fire the marker?

Yes I can. To be honest I was surprised how much force was required...I thought a small tap would trip it but I actually had to push forcefully on it. I backed off the velocity but this did not change things either.


Don't think it's his on/off guys. Unless I'm reading it wrong, his cheater isn't working at all.
Post 2 & 3 are pointing to him having a on/off problem....

[damajor]

The cheater is working...the piston/ram is moving...it's just not hitting the sear with enough force to trip it and fire the gun. I tried the shorter pin with no success. I think I might open the tickler up and take a look inside. I read a post with someone stating they had issues with the ticklers seat leaking on multiple occassions, and this could reduce the output pressure. Right now I have it maxed out and it has not blown the hose off?



Post 2 & 3 are pointing to him having a on/off problem....

[Ando]

Well in that case. Do you have a adj tank regulator? Set it to about 700-750 psi and see if the cheater will trip the sear. You don't want any RT'ing what so ever with this pneum setup so keep your output pressure around or below 800 psi. If I remember correctly he recommended a ULT at 10 PSI coming from the LPR but also said setting the LPR to 20 PSI will work with anything, including a stiff classic on/off.

Less pressure going to the on/off assy, the less pressure it takes to trip. It's something you have to play with since each valve has it's own quarks. Some will shoot just fine at 650 psi some won't, again it's something you'll have to tinker with yourself.

[flyingpootang]

Could you post a pic of the cheater, LPR, whole marker, distance between the cheater and sear when aired up?? What type of tank are you using???

[damajor]

I'm gonna try and lower the pressure tonight with a flatline setup as suggested and inspect the tickler. I have a second tickler on one of my cockers that I will swap out and see if there is a change.

If I get a chance I will try and post a pic tonight. The tank I have been using is just a Pure Energy 850psi preset.




Could you post a pic of the cheater, LPR, whole marker, distance between the cheater and sear when aired up?? What type of tank are you using???

[damajor]

After 7 days of messing with my new cheater....I finally have it working and the gun is firing :headbang: For the love of god I thought I was going to go crazy trying to get this thing to work!!! I tried soooo many different things...but of coarse...it's always the simplist things that get overlooked. I think the problem was that I had my rear thumb screw too tight and it was pulling the back of the valve down, angling it up slighty, and just enough to increase the pressure on the sear...ah ****! Prior to realizing this, I did tear down the cheater and reset the valve gap, but I do believe the real culprit was the over tightened thumb screw.

Thank you so much for all the help guys...it was much appreciated and this is why I love this site so much:hail:

Thanks again,

Jason

[flyingpootang]

Jason. let me guess a ULE'd rail right? You may want to check the inside of the body to see if there are scuff marks on the upper portion. If not avoid going Rambo tight on the thumb screw. 1/4 turn pass snug is a good rule....

[damajor]

The rail is just a AM/MM rail. I never thought I was over tightening it but I guess I was wrong.
I'm starting to think this is why I had issues trying to get my gun to RT consistently. There were times when it would rip and then it would not...lesson learned and I'm a little bit smarter I hope!





Jason. let me guess a ULE'd rail right? You may want to check the inside of the body to see if there are scuff marks on the upper portion. If not avoid going Rambo tight on the thumb screw. 1/4 turn pass snug is a good rule....