How come #1

[Beemer]

How come we use the same fill nipple for a 3000psi AND a 4500psi tank? :tard:

Seems kinda stupid dont it?

[CatoRockwell]

no, because you can fill a 4500 tank with a 3000 compressor, not all the way, but sometimes thats all you have.

[Fred]

i'd venture to guess that its rated at a MUCH higher operating pressure than we use em for... I don't think a 1500psi swing is going to affect that safety factor...

[Beemer]

i'd venture to guess that its rated at a MUCH higher operating pressure than we use em for... I don't think a 1500psi swing is going to affect that safety factor...

So its OK to put 4500psi in a 3000psi tank by accident or MISTAKE? :tard:

[CatoRockwell]

So its OK to put 4500psi in a 3000psi tank by accident or MISTAKE? :tard:
People should be expected to behave intelligently, if they don't then they should suffer the consequences of their own actions. I like choice, it means that when 4500 isn't available I can still fill my tank to 3000. If some moron gets themselves blown up because they don't pay attention to safety regulations, then the only thing we can hope is that they didn't pass on their genes to the next generation before they did.

[Jacobd]

4500PSI seems like alot, and it is, but you have to remember that the small fiber wrapped tanks we use have ridiculously high bursting pressures, point in case this page here (http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3108259&highlight=tank+exploded) (pics are a little graphic) where some poor fellow ended up with oil in his ASA and then flash-filled his tank which caused the oil and air mixture to ignite and explode, not at all unlike a diesel engine, but my point is even under that extreme circumstance the tank itself didn't rupture but rather the regulator blew off.
I can't say whether or not the same would happen if you slowly filled the tank to a higher and higher pressure until something failed or if this is true for all tank/reg combos but after seeing it I'm not really worried about over filling a 3000PSI tank by another 1500PSI by accident.

I should note though that none of what I just said has much to do with the danger of the reg/valve coming off the bottle and the bottle itself becoming a rocket and causeing injury, but this is true for co2 as well.

[behemoth]

So its OK to put 4500psi in a 3000psi tank by accident or MISTAKE? :tard:

He said nothing about putting 4500psi in a 3kpsi tank - Though, it'd probably hold it. - The burst discs would blow.

He said the FILL NIPPLE (you know, the whole point to this thread) - That little guy made of steel, that really doesnt hold much pressure, just lets the pressure pass on through....

And we've all made mistakes... But thats why there are safety features.

[Beemer]

He said nothing about putting 4500psi in a 3kpsi tank - Though, it'd probably hold it. - The burst discs would blow.

He said the FILL NIPPLE (you know, the whole point to this thread) - That little guy made of steel, that really doesnt hold much pressure, just lets the pressure pass on through....

And we've all made mistakes... But thats why there are safety features.


What safety features?

I should trust you or who ever is filling my TANK to be safe and not give me a SLAM[flashfill]?

[Frizzle Fry]

My 2 cents?

Another AO'er and I saw a kid blow the reg on a 3k tank at a 4.5k fill station last weekend. He scared the crap out of himself and everyone around him, and to top it off we had to take apart the freakin' thing for him and see what went wrong... Thankfully it was just a burst disc and bad shimming, but it could have been something worse. The kicker? This field only lets registered NEPL and NPPL team players fill their own tank; otherwise a ref, team member, or employee has to do it for you. I haven't played on a team in 4+ years, and the other AO'er hasn't played on one in something like 10, but we (as experienced players) have to rely on idiots like this kid filling our tanks.

I'm fairly sure that the reasoning behind this is that it's cheaper to mass-produce and bulk-order one part than two, and if you make it uniform you cut cost and reduce the number of spare parts you have to keep on hand. When I first started seeing HPA on fields, there was always an old-timer employee operating the fill station... When I worked at a field, we had a designated operator... These days, there's a lot of "fill-it-yourself" and field owners just don't train the people operating fill stations to the degree that's needed.

This issue has bugged me for a few years now.

[Beemer]

Thanks for your 2 cents Fry. Doesnt seem like such a STUPID question now does it?

[TwilightG]

I think the real question being asked here is why do we use the same air fitting for two substantially different pressures? Shouldn't they be different to prevent accidents?

Well, because it's convenient, easier, and cheaper. Doesn't make it right though.
In an ideal world, 3k psi tanks and 4.5k psi tanks would each have their own unique fill adapter. ...but this would also increase costs in manufacturing which would would translate to higher consumer prices. It would also increase costs (although minimal) for stores and fields performing fills to carry the extra equipment.

Beemer, you've mentioned quite a few times before about the lack of safety standards in paintball. Personally, I don't know if we'll ever see such a thing in this "sport". Unfortunately, if accidents and injuries increase and people start to take more notice, it is probably more likely that the equipment itself would become banned rather than imposing safety laws since no one would want to deal with it.

[Tombola]

oh, i didn´t know that fillnipples are only 3000psi rated. the same thing i observed with fittings. when i was tired of paying that much my paintball-dealer for standart industry stuff i searched arround at suppliers and found that most of the availible stainless macroline fittings where only rated for 500psi. the next time at my local dealer i asked him where he gets his fittings from, and voila, it came out that he only sells the 500psi variant. he told me that if they are "din"-rated they hold twice the pressure, and that is true. some time later i got my maxflo and my classic rt (used) with some unrecognizable fittings, and guess what happend. the o-ring blew of.

at my local field they have a 3000psi station and one for 4500psi. they use prefilled 100l bottles. one time the "operator" accidentally put a 4500psi bottle on the 3000psi line. something blew and we got a nice show of what happens when you release an extra of 30000l/min into a small room of 6sqm. if you will ever get rid of your old wallpaper, thats one way.

just my 2ct-stories on that:-)

[Dirge]

I think the real question being asked here is why do we use the same air fitting for two substantially different pressures? Shouldn't they be different to prevent accidents?


I completely agree with this. I would like to see a 3000psi fill nipple that is not compatible with a 4500psi air fill.

Would probably cost too much though (been said, just agreeing).

[BigEvil]

When 4500 was first introduced, there was a different fill nipple. The industry decided it was impractical to make field and store owners have to buy two completely separate filling systems.

[Beemer]

When 4500 was first introduced, there was a different fill nipple. The industry decided it was impractical to make field and store owners have to buy two completely separate filling systems.

Just two different fittings not the whole system. Pretty simple, smart and not that much cost really. Then again when has the paintball industry been smart.






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http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/AoIL.gif

[BigEvil]

Just two different fittings not the whole system. Pretty simple, smart and not that much cost really. Then again when has the paintball industry been smart.






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http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/AoIL.gif


At the time HP was still a mystery to most players, fields, and store owners. They pushed that different 4500 fitting, and the industry pushed back. Im not 100% sure, but wasnt the 4500psi fitting 1/4" threads?

[zondo]

My 2 cents?

Another AO'er and I saw a kid blow the reg on a 3k tank at a 4.5k fill station last weekend. He scared the crap out of himself and everyone around him, and to top it off we had to take apart the freakin' thing for him and see what went wrong... Thankfully it was just a burst disc and bad shimming, but it could have been something worse. The kicker? This field only lets registered NEPL and NPPL team players fill their own tank; otherwise a ref, team member, or employee has to do it for you. I haven't played on a team in 4+ years, and the other AO'er hasn't played on one in something like 10, but we (as experienced players) have to rely on idiots like this kid filling our tanks.

I'm fairly sure that the reasoning behind this is that it's cheaper to mass-produce and bulk-order one part than two, and if you make it uniform you cut cost and reduce the number of spare parts you have to keep on hand. When I first started seeing HPA on fields, there was always an old-timer employee operating the fill station... When I worked at a field, we had a designated operator... These days, there's a lot of "fill-it-yourself" and field owners just don't train the people operating fill stations to the degree that's needed.

This issue has bugged me for a few years now.


So is this why at some fields the employees will fill the 3K tanks but will let you fill the 4.5K?

[Beemer]

At the time HP was still a mystery to most players, fields, and store owners. They pushed that different 4500 fitting, and the industry pushed back. Im not 100% sure, but wasnt the 4500psi fitting 1/4" threads?

The original 3000psi was 1/2 inch.

Here is the female............

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/Fitting1.jpg

Goes on the male fitting here with the red cap on it. Same size as shop compressor fittings.

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/BigTank2Small.JPG


That is from the tank to the gun. THE fill nipple is the same as today as well as the quick connect end at the gun :confused:

[BigEvil]

That isn't an original fitting, its an oddball fitting that nitroduck used. Air America used pretty much what we use now.

[athomas]

At the time HP was still a mystery to most players, fields, and store owners. They pushed that different 4500 fitting, and the industry pushed back. Im not 100% sure, but wasnt the 4500psi fitting 1/4" threads?I remember when all that happened. There was a lot of resistance because 3000psi fill stations wouldn't accept 4500psi bottles without a special adapter.

[CatoRockwell]

Again, maybe where you guys live this isn't a problem, but a lot of scenarios I go to as well as pick up games, you can't always fill your 4500, because scuba's etc only fill to 3000, by having a universal fitting it allows players to fill their 4500 tank to 3000 without any complications.

Again, we don't need to make rules or change standards. Let stupid people suffer the consequences of their actions. If I personally ran a field, I would only allow one of my trained employees, or anyone covered by my insurance fill tanks at my compressor, for liability purposes. Just like you don't let an uninsured driver borrow your car, don't let someone for whom you will be liable.

I don't think this problem requires a change in equipment, just responsibility by individuals. I've never had problems filling my own tanks at scenarios, neither have any other players that I know of. I can see how some moron intentionally filling his 3000 at the 4500 compressor could get himself messed up, but that's not my problem. Last thing I need is complications added just so the stupid won't be stupid.

Every time someone tries to make something idiot proof someone makes a better idiot.

[going_home]

How come we use the same fill nipple for a 3000psi AND a 4500psi tank? :tard:
Seems kinda stupid dont it?

I dont think so. KISS so to speak having one size fits all.



Every time someone tries to make something idiot proof someone makes a better idiot.

Now that was almost sig-worthy (if we actually had sigs) .
Nevertheless its true. No matter what safety procedures are implemented and standardized
by the paintball powers that be, there will always be idiots.


And another thing.....

You guys leave beemer alone.
You have the right to whine about stuff only after you get to be his age.

:nono:

[ProblemKinder]

He said nothing about putting 4500psi in a 3kpsi tank - Though, it'd probably hold it. - The burst discs would blow.

He said the FILL NIPPLE (you know, the whole point to this thread) - That little guy made of steel, that really doesnt hold much pressure, just lets the pressure pass on through....

And we've all made mistakes... But thats why there are safety features.

I think you're missing the point of the thread yourself. why do you think beemer thinks it's stupid to have the same fill nipple for both? probably the same reason that Deisel fuel pumps are bigger than regular gasoline fuel pumps...to keep people from accidentally putting deisel in their gasoline cars. (why some gas stations put both fuels at the same pump I dont know, but they do it) Having a different sized fill nipple would prevent someone from putting 4500 in a 3000 tank. DUH :tard:


I say keep the same size fill nipple and just put alot of effort into making sure people don't make the mistake. like having the two serperate fill stations far enough apart to make it harder to make the mistake. having big colorful flashy signs that say 3000 HERE and 4500 HERE. or just dont let people fill their own tanks (people will whine but they'll get over it) besides it will help keep people from filling out of hydro tanks if the staff member has to fill it for them.

[MANN]

probably the same reason that Deisel fuel pumps are bigger than regular gasoline fuel pumps...to keep people from accidentally putting deisel in their gasoline cars. (why some gas stations put both fuels at the same pump I dont know, but they do it)

nope. They are larger because they are able to pump at a higher flow rate. Most diesel vehicles have larger tanks so instead of making them wait longer they pump at higher flow rates.

I vote to let Darwin take effect. Lets quit making things difficult to keep the stupid alive.

[ProblemKinder]

nope. They are larger because they are able to pump at a higher flow rate. Most diesel vehicles have larger tanks so instead of making them wait longer they pump at higher flow rates

that's interesting. I remember one time getting upset because the fuel pump wouldn't fit in my tank....I quickly realized it was a diesel pump and looking around in hopes that nobody was looking...I put it back and grabbed the correct pump. I lucked out! :cool:


I vote to let Darwin take effect. Lets quit making things difficult to keep the stupid alive.


except when stupid people are putting smart people in danger, SOMETHING has to be done.


also y'all need to step down off your high horse and quit acting like you're all so super smart. anybody on this forum could make the simple mistake of filling a 3000 too far. especially if all you've ever played with was a 4500 and one day for whatever reason youre playing with a 3000. there's nothing wrong with taking precautions to make sure something bad doesn't happen just in case a smart person/dumb person/person of average intelligence makes an honest mistake.

just my opinion :rolleyes:

[pillage]

How come we use the same fill nipple for a 3000psi AND a 4500psi tank? :tard:

Seems kinda stupid dont it?
For good or bad, the fill nipples are a standard industrial size. Just like many other items we use for paintball, they did not start out exclusively for it. :D

[Spider-TW]

You actually might be able to get separate (or 3k unique only) systems to work now. I don't think there were enough equipment standards anywhere to get things settled before someone manufactured something different.

Things seemed to have settled down for now. I thought for a while there was going to be some "psi wars" from 3k to 4.5 k to 5k to something else, but fortunately the market leveled out.