***Official price for the ShoeBox compressor will be 390 dollars***

[AGD]

***Official price for the ShoeBox compressor will be 390 dollars***

We expect to ship the first production run of about 100 units in the next couple weeks. These will be sold through automags.org's forum so if your not hanging out here your likely to miss it. There will be about an 8-10 week lag until the next batch comes through due to the parts lead time but it will be considerably larger. This will also give us time to make sure we don't have any hidden problems in the first batch.Thanks for your patience but know that we are trying to produce the best, trouble free product possible.

AGD

[AGD]

That was the official announcement. On the side, I tried like hell to get the price into the low 300's but it just wasn't possible. The darn thing weights over 20 lbs just in material alone. I was not going to plate the small sheet metal parts to save a buck but they would have rusted almost immediately and my sheet metal guy talked me out of it.

The forces on the crankshaft during the pump stroke are over 100 lbs at full pressure. I worked on several ideas on how to assemble the crankshaft parts by bolting them together but they never held up over the long term. I said "screw it, we will weld the damn things" so they will NEVER come apart.

The auto shut off was a killer. It was about 100 bucks to buy a 4500 psi pressure shut off. That wouldn't do so I came up with this lever-bump arrangement. It didn't work well until I gave in and put two actual ball-bearings in the mount (you can't see them in the pics).

So as you can see, I started from the bottom and worked my way up to give you the best value possible. I am sure there will be many aftermarket ups and extras that people will come out with. One good one should be changing the sprockets and chains out for cog belts which would make it quieter (but at a cost).

We are working hard to assemble the first batch now and after we threw away 3500 parts and redesigned them, things are going well. From here I will order the parts for the next batch but that will take at least 8 weeks. Thanks for your patience.

AGD

[Brewtt]

Sweet... I'll order one as soon as they're released. My team will test the heck out of this thing. ;)

[garbageman705]

Hi, I am very excited about this product. I WILL be getting one. I did want to know if there is a possibility that the compressor could be set to shut off at 3000 and 4500 respectively. I don't think 390 is too high a price for what you are getting. From what I understand this will fill a scuba in 48 hours and a 68 4500 in 6 hours approximately?

Good to have you back in paintball. :argh:

[xero28]

A couple of questions for you Tom:

- Is this the "out the door" cost?

- From what I understand, other than the compressor, we will just need a 4500 psi rated hose/fitting to attach to the tank. Is this correct? If so, would we be able to purchase that from you or could you point us in a good direction to find one?

I think that's it for now. As always, thanks for your hard work and dedication in seeing this one through. Really looking forward to having one of these.

:cheers:

[AGD]

I do not supply a hose to connect the compressor to your tank.

If I offered a hose it would have to use all rated fittings and hoses and would cost more than you would be willing to pay. I am sure once they are out, other customers will come up with links on where you can get good deals on the hose etc.

Besides that you will need a shop compressor. We recommend the oiless type which in many cases can be bought for less than 70 bucks.

AGD

[mpsd]

Tom,

Congrats again for the initiative and for being able to come up with something revolutionary after so long. I'm sure you will have great success on this and hope to have you around more often now that you are working with paintball related products again.

Also, just to complete Xero28's comments, I believe it would be really nice if you could assemble a list of compatible shop compressors, as well as a spec list or minimum requirements for it. As an IT professional, I'm really used to this kind of thing and I trully believe it helps a lot for a customer when he's assembling your product for the first time.

At last, I remember you saying that it would work even without the shop compressor. Only thing is that it would take 3 or 4 times longer to fill up the tank. Is it correct?

Thanks again, glad to see you comming back and best wishes of luck,

Mendel.

PS: Unfortunatelly, as I still don't know when will I be able to go to US again, I'll probably have to wait for the second batch to get mine :( . But believe me, it's a top priority on my list!

:cheers:

[El Camino]

AGD[/QUOTE]
I am sure there will be many aftermarket ups and extras that people will come out with. One good one should be changing the sprockets and chains out for cog belts which would make it quieter (but at a cost).

Tom, would the belt drive be something you might offer, once everything gets going smooth?? I'm all into upgrades and accessories. Thanks for all your hard work on making the Shoebox(and those that helped you)!

[shives007]

OK, that means I have cash to buy other toys at LL3. I was all set to hand Tom an envelope and head home with one. I'm on the list, so hopefully I'll get mine in due time.

Shives

[AGD]

Shhhhh don't tell anyone..... IF your an AO member, and you can convince me that you know your way around a crankshaft, AND you bring CASH....I MIGHT be able to "fit you in".

I am specifically looking for people that will not wine and ***** if something goes bad. The longer you have been hanging out here, the better chance I know your forum name. That will help convince me to sell you one. For instance, the chains stretch as a normal part of breaking in. If you can't look at this product and figure out how to tension the chains, I don't want to sell you one from the first batch.

AGD

[Smoothice]

Hey Tom. Just in case someone shows up and says "Hey I'm smoothice, here's my money" It really isn't me. I won't be there :D

Not that you'd recognize my name anyways... :spit_take

[DevilMan]

I have an idea for a chain tensioner sir...

I'll get it to you in the next few days..

DM

[skipdogg]

If you can't look at this product and figure out how to tension the chains, I don't want to sell you one from the first batch.

AGD


this comment probably excludes me, however my teammates are more mechanically inclined. I think at this point the crap tables at the empress on thursday night will determine if I get one this weekend.. :eek:

[DevilMan]

Hey TK, I sent a quick not to Beemer so he can forward it to you....

It's simple in theory and should be just as simple in execution....

Let me know,

DM

[LiqTenExp]

Sounds like you are looking for an engineer, who may or may not work in the aerospace industry, who is very mechanically inclined, a gear head, paintball fanatic, can take apart an autococker and put it back together blind folded (ok thats pushing it but...), and may know a thing or two about chains and sprockets from working on and owning motorcycles?

If so I know a guy. :)

[BigEvil]

Shhhhh don't tell anyone..... IF your an AO member, and you can convince me that you know your way around a crankshaft, AND you bring CASH....I MIGHT be able to "fit you in".

I am specifically looking for people that will not wine and ***** if something goes bad. The longer you have been hanging out here, the better chance I know your forum name. That will help convince me to sell you one. For instance, the chains stretch as a normal part of breaking in. If you can't look at this product and figure out how to tension the chains, I don't want to sell you one from the first batch.

AGD


:eek:

Swear Filter Circumvention! Where is that Beemer when you need a mod :D J/K J/K :rofl:


Money is tight right now but seeing that I have to stop off after work today to get my bottles filled again I will take one anyhow.

[Mongoose]

I need one....maybe two

so if i piggyback them it will cut the time in half right?

[vf-xx]

Sounds like you are looking for an engineer, who may or may not work in the aerospace industry, who is very mechanically inclined, a gear head, paintball fanatic, can take apart an autococker and put it back together blind folded (ok thats pushing it but...), and may know a thing or two about chains and sprockets from working on and owning motorcycles?

If so I know a guy. :)

I'm a Mechanical Engineer in the pump industry, with previous experience with industrial compressors and the like. As a note: 4500 PSI is no longer high pressure for me. I've worked in a gas phase process with pressures in excess of 30,000 psi-g

I'd be more than happy to trial a unit, but don't have the funds or the need for it. I can pick up fills locally easily enough.

[Ando]

I need one....maybe two

so if i piggyback them it will cut the time in half right?
Yes

[ezcreation]

Awesome news, great price!
Anxious to get one!

[SSP REAPER]

sign me up :cheers:

[Mayvik]

Awesome! I'm still in if I can be! Really, $390 is a great price for anyone that does a lot of tinker/test/tuning or doesn't live near a shop or field. By the time I account for gas, cost of fills, and the hassle/cost of my time to drive 1+ hours to/from a shop, that works out to like 10 fill trips..I'll blow through that in the first couple of months.

Other than chain tension and lubrication, how much routine maintenance are you expecting, running on average maybe 3-4 times a month? Are the parts generally user-serviceable and are there/will there be parts kits for seals and such available should they be needed?

[CatoRockwell]

Tom if you can piggy back these compressors, can i assume a shop compressor with higher input than 85psi will slightly decrease fill time?

Also anyone looking to do aftermarket parts: may i suggest making a converter for switching auto shut off to 3000 and 4500?

I would buy that upgrade soooo fast.

[bbotts77]

I do not supply a hose to connect the compressor to your tank.
It looks like the compressor has a quick disconnect on it. If that's correct, a Ninja Fill Whip (http://www.ninjapaintball.com/productDetail.asp_Q_catID_E_91_A_subCatID_E_84_A_p roductID_E_93) should work just fine. They are about $20 and are rated for 4500 psi.

[xero28]

It looks like the compressor has a quick disconnect on it. If that's correct, a Ninja Fill Whip (http://www.ninjapaintball.com/productDetail.asp_Q_catID_E_91_A_subCatID_E_84_A_p roductID_E_93) should work just fine. They are about $20 and are rated for 4500 psi.

:clap: :dance: :dance:

[maniacmechanic]

I am specifically looking for people that will not wine and ***** if something goes bad. The longer you have been hanging out here, the better chance I know your forum name. That will help convince me to sell you one. For instance, the chains stretch as a normal part of breaking in. If you can't look at this product and figure out how to tension the chains, I don't want to sell you one from the first batch.

AGD

I want one , sounds like I should qualify myself ; 51 yr old mechanic , anything from weedeaters to heavy equipment .
At this point I own 15 Mags , my primary marker is a Warp fed X Mag .
Member here since Aug. of 06 .

[Digler45]

Ohh, i totally want one of these. will there be shipping options to Canada?

[GRAYGHOST]

sounds great have to get one money is put away looking ot see one in my garage will be put to use every week end at 58 cant run fast but can shoot straight and raise some eyebrows :shooting:

[nalby]

This is great I'm getting gitty with anticipation

[Frizzle Fry]

I'll be waiting for the 2nd run, but I'm very excited.

[Beemer]

Shhhhh don't tell anyone..... IF your an AO member, and you can convince me that you know your way around a crankshaft, AND you bring CASH....I MIGHT be able to "fit you in".

AGD

You mean there will be some available at LL. Oh wait you said dont tell no one. :ninja:

[Beemer]

Other than chain tension and lubrication, how much routine maintenance are you expecting, running on average maybe 3-4 times a month? Are the parts generally user-serviceable and are there/will there be parts kits for seals and such available should they be needed?

Chain tension and a little lube thats about it and yes and yes. :D

[BigEvil]

Like I said earlier, yeah its a little slow, but damn I need air and now I need to go get my tanks filled. This contraption will come in very handy....


Hey TK, I have a 4500 (unsure of the size, shorter and fatter than a scuba) DIN tank. Any chance I would kill a Shoebox if I used it to fill it?

[BenoitOWN]

I will ask around for a airline rate to fill up a paintball tank. Distributor is in backorder but I have a manufacturer to talk.

[Beemer]

Hey TK, I have a 4500 (unsure of the size, shorter and fatter than a scuba) DIN tank. Any chance I would kill a Shoebox if I used it to fill it?

Naaa I dont think so, it just might take 15hrs or more. ;)

[Stayhuge]

I know someone mentioned it, and it is perfect for this application for only $20:

Ninja Whip (http://www.ninjapaintball.com/productDetail.asp_Q_catID_E_91_A_subCatID_E_84_A_p roductID_E_93)

That should solve the problem, until AO single handedly orders more of these from Ninja in the next 24 hours, than Ninja has sold since the product came out :rofl:

[BenoitOWN]

I know someone mentioned it, and it is perfect for this application for only $20:

Ninja Whip (http://www.ninjapaintball.com/productDetail.asp_Q_catID_E_91_A_subCatID_E_84_A_p roductID_E_93)

That should solve the problem, until AO single handedly orders more of these from Ninja in the next 24 hours, than Ninja has sold since the product came out :rofl:

Technically you cannot buy it as is untill they put 2 female end ... Already sent an e-mail to get the proper quote with some different lenght.

[Beemer]

Thats all you need is some SS line rated and a female quick connect on both ends.

[Stayhuge]

Technically you cannot buy it as is untill they put 2 female end ... Already sent an e-mail to get the proper quote with some different lenght.

oh, I didn;t think of that. But at least you know that the hose and fittings are rated to 4500 psi. Since there are going to be 100 people needing these in a few weeks, maybe Ninja will start stocking it set up for the mini compressor

[xero28]

Technically you cannot buy it as is untill they put 2 female end ... Already sent an e-mail to get the proper quote with some different lenght.


http://www.ninjapaintball.com/includes/image_resize.asp?intWidth=400&intHeight=400&path=Products\Enlarge\11_12_2008_13_30_6.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-sjc1/hs632.snc3/31698_1371819708603_1625072661_900262_4047026_n.jp g

Why would you need two females? It looks like you attach a male into the fitting at the valve, is that correct? Either way, you can just put a female/female like is shown on the right side of the line, right?

[rbueno_01]

:clap: i want one

[DevilMan]

Why would you need two females?

Because having 2 females is loads more entertaining!!!

DM

[Frizzle Fry]

Why would you need two females? It looks like you attach a male into the fitting at the valve, is that correct? Either way, you can just put a female/female like is shown on the right side of the line, right?
I think you're right on, Xero.



Because having 2 females is loads more entertaining!!!
My "Lesbian Kiss" Angel AIR tank tends to agree.

[Beemer]

Why would you need two females? It looks like you attach a male into the fitting at the valve, is that correct? Either way, you can just put a female/female like is shown on the right side of the line, right?


The fitting on the Shoebox is a male quick release just like the fill nipple on your tank.

That pic has demo hardware on it. You dont get a gauge with the Shoebox.

[DoubleDutch]

The male fill nipple on the shoebox, is it 1/8 NPT on the other side? Can you disconnect the male fill nipple and screw the hose straight in where the nipple goes on the shoebox?

And are all stainless steel braided hoses rated to 4500 PSI? I do not see any ratings on the ones I have.

[AGD]

Yes there is a 1/8 pipe tapped port on the compressor.

Most of the typical braided stainless lines are NOT rated for 4500 psi.

Virtually all brass fittings are not rated for 4500 psi.

The compressor has a male fitting for the output.

You need a hose with two females.

AGD

[Mayvik]

So stupid question...the first round of Shoeboxes are 4500psi models. If I hook it up to a 4500 psi bottle, sit there and watch it for X hours while it fills (yes, I have no life), and manually turn the Shoebox off when the tank gauge reaches 3000 psi, does that mean I can also hook up a 3000 psi bottle, sit there and watch it for X hours, and manually turn the Shoebox off when then tank gauge reads 3000 psi?

Definitely don't want to cause any safety issues..but it seems to me that since this is not an "instant fill" like a typical system, as long as you are actually paying attention to the fill process, you could fill 3000 psi tanks from the 4500 psi system. Am I missing something?

[xero28]

So stupid question...the first round of Shoeboxes are 4500psi models. If I hook it up to a 4500 psi bottle, sit there and watch it for X hours while it fills (yes, I have no life), and manually turn the Shoebox off when the tank gauge reaches 3000 psi, does that mean I can also hook up a 3000 psi bottle, sit there and watch it for X hours, and manually turn the Shoebox off when then tank gauge reads 3000 psi?

Definitely don't want to cause any safety issues..but it seems to me that since this is not an "instant fill" like a typical system, as long as you are actually paying attention to the fill process, you could fill 3000 psi tanks from the 4500 psi system. Am I missing something?

If someone else want to weigh in on this, go ahead. But I'm fairly positive the answer is "YES, you can do this". The compressor has to get to 3000 psi before it gets to 4500 psi, and it won't jump from 2800 to 3700 all of a sudden. If you are watching it, just turn it off when it gets to 3k.

I had a discussion with someone about this in one of the other compressor threads. Basically, you can find out how long it takes to fill an empty tank up to 3k psi, let's say 2 hours. Get a timer that you can plug the ShoeBox and shop compressor into. Set the timer for 2 hours. It will shut everything off after 2 hours and you should have a full 3k psi tank without having to watch it.

[luke]

Chain tensioners’ are simple here’s one on a chopper I’m building.

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/Chain_Tent_1.jpg?t=1274983650

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/Chain_Tent_REDO.jpg?t=1274983734

[joeyt]

If someone else want to weigh in on this, go ahead. But I'm fairly positive the answer is "YES, you can do this".

that's exactly what tom said when someone asked him a similar question on facebook.

http://tinyurl.com/2d7rnwx

[Mayvik]

If someone else want to weigh in on this, go ahead. But I'm fairly positive the answer is "YES, you can do this". The compressor has to get to 3000 psi before it gets to 4500 psi, and it won't jump from 2800 to 3700 all of a sudden. If you are watching it, just turn it off when it gets to 3k.

I had a discussion with someone about this in one of the other compressor threads. Basically, you can find out how long it takes to fill an empty tank up to 3k psi, let's say 2 hours. Get a timer that you can plug the ShoeBox and shop compressor into. Set the timer for 2 hours. It will shut everything off after 2 hours and you should have a full 3k psi tank without having to watch it.

That's pretty much what I was thinking...except with a "walk away and let the timer take over" situation I'd probably say 1.5 hours instead of 2, just for extra margin.

I guess worst case you come back, find your burst disc blown and the compressor is pumping air out into ambient through the disc hole.

[xero28]

That's pretty much what I was thinking...except with a "walk away and let the timer take over" situation I'd probably say 1.5 hours instead of 2, just for extra margin.

I guess worst case you come back, find your burst disc blown and the compressor is pumping air out into ambient through the disc hole.

Right, the 2 hour thing was just round number, Tom said that the fill is linear, so if it in fact takes 4 hours to fill a completely empty 4500 bottle, then that's 1125 psi per hour. So 3000/1125=2.67 hours. Though I'd run a couple empties though first and see exactly how long it does take.

The high pressure burst disk on 3k psi tanks is 5000 psi, so even if you do forget and fill past 3k, you shouldn't have any problems, just shouldn't let it happen a lot. Tanks are hydro tested to 5/3 their designated pressure, so a 3000 psi tank is capable of holding 5000 (and probably more) psi.

[mpsd]

I was looking at the 4500 psi capable hoses and they are not that cheap. I've found some for $60 and up and nothing on paintball web sites.

This one was the cheapest I could find:

http://www.pressuretek.com/blspflho2wi3.html

Would that one be a correct hose to be used for this application?

Also, would the standard quick disconnect fittings we usually use stand that pressure?

Please advice.

Thanks,

Mendel.

[slick86]

ninja makes one (previously mentioned)

http://www.ninjapaintball.com/productDetail.asp_Q_catID_E_91_A_subCatID_E_84_A_p roductID_E_93

http://www.ninjapaintball.com/includes/image_resize.asp?intWidth=400&intHeight=400&path=Products\Enlarge\11_12_2008_13_30_6.jpg

MADE IN THE USA!!!!
Attach to your tank in the pack
Fill your air system leaving your pack on.
4500 psi rated assembly
Stainless Steel Female Quick Disconnect
30” hose

19.95

[mpsd]

ninja makes one (previously mentioned)

http://www.ninjapaintball.com/productDetail.asp_Q_catID_E_91_A_subCatID_E_84_A_p roductID_E_93

http://www.ninjapaintball.com/includes/image_resize.asp?intWidth=400&intHeight=400&path=Products\Enlarge\11_12_2008_13_30_6.jpg

MADE IN THE USA!!!!
Attach to your tank in the pack
Fill your air system leaving your pack on.
4500 psi rated assembly
Stainless Steel Female Quick Disconnect
30” hose

19.95

Tom said it wouldn't be safe to use it because of the time under which it would be exposed on such high PSI, didn't he?

[slick86]

didn't see that, just needs two female ends.

Ninja sells a 3000psi one

http://www.ninjapaintball.com/productDetail.asp_Q_catID_E_91_A_subCatID_E_78_A_p roductID_E_80#

http://www.ninjapaintball.com/includes/image_resize.asp?intWidth=400&intHeight=400&path=Products\Enlarge\11_12_2008_11_35_15.jpg

I'm sure they will sell the 4500 ones if enough ask imo

[PAINTHEY]

Ninja’s Fill Whip may work for us but, sadly a whole lot of the normal HP fill stations are not rated for 4500psi working presser.

Not a lot out there for cheep 4.5k+ hoses and fittings ether. I'll Probably will end up mounting the showbox to a bored, build a cradle to hold the tank and then build some costume pluming and mounting block. That way the tank can’t be moved while filling.

[BenoitOWN]

I am talking to Ninja about having the proper hose.

I will let everyone know a cost once it is available.

[GoatBoy]

I am talking to Ninja about having the proper hose.

I will let everyone know a cost once it is available.

I think we're going to need a bleed too, or is there one built into the compressor?

Ninja techs seems to not want to answer my questions directly.

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?p=66501185#post66501185

[BenoitOWN]

I think we're going to need a bleed too, or is there one built into the compressor?

Ninja techs seems to not want to answer my questions directly.

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?p=66501185#post66501185

Taken from BigEvil review on the compressor:

There is also a bleeder knob on the bottom front right above the output nipple

[GoatBoy]

Taken from BigEvil review on the compressor:

Oh alright, missed that bit. Thanks.

[Ando]

Tom said it wouldn't be safe to use it because of the time under which it would be exposed on such high PSI, didn't he?
Well if that's the case, something needs to be in place before these pumps go live or everyone buying one is SOL.....

Hopefully Mr. Kaye got a solution.

[slick86]

ninja just emailed me back, said they could do it (female to female whip) and would give me quote next week...

[Beemer]

Well if that's the case, something needs to be in place before these pumps go live or everyone buying one is SOL.....


I just got some Macro line to use with mine. :headbang:

[Thordic]

I just got some Macro line to use with mine. :headbang:

I really wish I had pics of my hand after 1,000 PSI through macro blew up in my palm. That was one impressive bruise. I don't even wanna know what 4500 would feel like. Ouch.

[Ando]

I just got some Macro line to use with mine. :headbang:
Mr. "I hate macro line" whaaa?!?!? :p

[bbotts77]

I just got some Macro line to use with mine. :headbang:
I've got about nine feet of micro line if you'd rather use that. :rolleyes:

[LiqTenExp]

I've got a ninja fill whip that I plan on swapping the end to another female. It is rated for 4500 psi. I have used it to fill my 4500 psi tank a few times now without issue.

[noah_]

If someone else want to weigh in on this, go ahead. But I'm fairly positive the answer is "YES, you can do this". The compressor has to get to 3000 psi before it gets to 4500 psi, and it won't jump from 2800 to 3700 all of a sudden. If you are watching it, just turn it off when it gets to 3k.

I had a discussion with someone about this in one of the other compressor threads. Basically, you can find out how long it takes to fill an empty tank up to 3k psi, let's say 2 hours. Get a timer that you can plug the ShoeBox and shop compressor into. Set the timer for 2 hours. It will shut everything off after 2 hours and you should have a full 3k psi tank without having to watch it.

I like the idea but what IF your hamster/dog/two year old knocks the timer off the wall or the timer fails. You may just have a blown burst disk. Or, as mentioned, you would fill your house with air! :cry:

[xero28]

I like the idea but what IF your hamster/dog/two year old knocks the timer off the wall or the timer fails. You may just have a blown burst disk. Or, as mentioned, you would fill your house with air! :cry:

Right, but again, 3k tanks have 5k burst disk and are hydro tested to 5000 psi. So a fill to 4500 psi "shouldn't" hurt it or even blow the disk.

[runningboar]

I really wish I had pics of my hand after 1,000 PSI through macro blew up in my palm. That was one impressive bruise. I don't even wanna know what 4500 would feel like. Ouch.

Was sitting next to a buddy when his macro blew, his marker was in his lap. I didn't want to see the bruise but from the way he acted it was painful. Chris

[Doc Nickel]

For instance, the chains stretch as a normal part of breaking in. If you can't look at this product and figure out how to tension the chains, I don't want to sell you one from the first batch.

-I think I might know a guy...

http://www.the-whiteboard.com/autotwb1054.gif (http://www.the-whiteboard.com/autotwb1054.html)

I'll be happy to see that he gets one... :D

Doc.

[Ruler_Mark]

Right, but again, 3k tanks have 5k burst disk and are hydro tested to 5000 psi. So a fill to 4500 psi "shouldn't" hurt it or even blow the disk.


it will. i've had 5k disks blow at a 3k hot fill.

[Jacobd]

What about grease gun hoses? they come in 12''-24'' lengths, have 1/8 NPT threads and are available with suitable pressure ratings, only thing is being designed for grease I don't know if they would hold air pressure or not.

McmasterCarr has a good selection here (http://www.mcmaster.com/#grease-gun-hose/=7aw08v) anyway, cheap too.

[xero28]

it will. i've had 5k disks blow at a 3k hot fill.

Well...I didn't say they ALWAYS work :p

[Ando]

It's called metal fatigue. It happens.

[Doc Nickel]

A pressure tank is intentionally overfilled in the course of hydrotesting. Point in fact, a 3K psi tank is filled to 4500 when tested.

However...

There's a reason that fiber-wrap tanks have a finite lifespan, which includes either three or four hydrotests, and only three or four hydrotests. The testing itself fatigues the tank, and after just a handful of tests, the tank is known to be damaged to the point it needs to be decertified. (Meaning after the 15-year lifespan, the tank can no longer be legally tested or used, regardless of condition.)

So one overfill won't kill or blow up a tank. But more than one will damage the tank, and risk having it not pass it's next hydro. Keep overfilling on a regular basis, and you risk having the tank actually burst.

Hopefully the majority of buyers will be reasonably competent and will properly adjust the output if necessary. On the other hand, the typical buyer of something like this already has a 4500 psi tank anyway- I can't see somebody blowing $400 to keep the steel 53 on his Tippmann topped up. (Though stranger things have happened. :D )

Bottom line? If you buy one, and only have a 3K psi tank (or have both kinds of tank) pay very close attention to the fill pressures of the lower rated one.

Doc.

[DevilMan]

Which I find quite a racket if you ask me.. that really the part that determines the lifespan of the CF tanks is the hydrotesting and that is what kills it. Seems like there should be a better way to test them... like xray technology that will allow the bottle to be scanned to check for any tears/fractures and then put back into service. Seems a much more logical avenue. One thing that's always irritated me about the CF bottles.

DM

[Tunaman]

I am assembling the proper rated fill hose kits complete with gauge. I will have pics up shortly. Safe...cheap...done... ;)

[Beemer]

it will. i've had 5k disks blow at a 3k hot fill.

Whats a HOT fill. Is that like what we [I] call a SLAM or flash fill? Thats one nice thing about the Shoebox, you get a nice FULL fill. No loss of pressure from cool down after a fill. :D

An old burst disk can go at anytime not just from an over fill. Like Ando said fatigue.

Its funny how this brings up SAFETY questions NOW, when for years LOTS of folks have been using plastic line downstream from a 4500psi pressure vessal and dont THINK twice about it.

Send your gun out to a third party,NASA or UL and the first thing they will do is make the upstream part fail and see what happens downstream.

Who has the only valve [gun] still on the market that actually SAYS rated to 3000psi? And thats underrated when in fact it was tested at over 5000psi.

The shoebox has a burst disk built in. It will blow. It has been tested.





___________

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/AoIL.gif

[Beemer]

I am assembling the proper rated fill hose kits complete with gauge. I will have pics up shortly. Safe...cheap...done... ;)

Nice................Did you blow up or break your Shoebox yet? Could you send us one of those hose kits? :p

[Frizzle Fry]

Whats a HOT fill. Is that like what we [I] call a SLAM or flash fill? Thats one nice thing about the Shoebox, you get a nice FULL fill. No loss of pressure from cool down after a fill.

I was just talking about that with another AO'er... We both use WDP Angel AIR tank regulators on some of our markers, and while they're awesomely adjustable, they tend to blow seals if you "flash" or "slam" fill them.... They prefer a slow fill, and neither of us will bring our AIR-equipped markers to fields that won't let us do our own fills.

The Shoebox will become a must-have for AIR reg users.

[mpsd]

I am assembling the proper rated fill hose kits complete with gauge. I will have pics up shortly. Safe...cheap...done... ;)

Tunaman is da man! :headbang:

[athomas]

I was just talking about that with another AO'er... We both use WDP Angel AIR tank regulators on some of our markers, and while they're awesomely adjustable, they tend to blow seals if you "flash" or "slam" fill them.... They prefer a slow fill, and neither of us will bring our AIR-equipped markers to fields that won't let us do our own fills.

The Shoebox will become a must-have for AIR reg users.My Angel Air is the same. The first fill needs to be gentle. After that, the top off isn't as critical.

[PB_RoB]

I so want to be in the first 100 to be able to buy one.

Is there an official waiting list for this? If so - where do I sign up?

This is a Gotta HAVE IT for me! :D

.

[BenoitOWN]

How come hes da man when I was getting Ninja to make a proper stainless hose kit? Tuna tell me it not a cheap paintball gauge ... ive seen them fail hehe.

[Tunaman]

Because you got it right...I am da Man! I dont want to see my friends hurt so I wont use any cheap crap. No mini gauges either as they are not reliable enough. 3000wp stainless line is not good enough. If it isnt Mil Spec I am not using it. So price out the Mil spec stuff and see if you still want to do it. ;) My parts should be here tuesday so hurry.

[thew]

We use this at work for hydraulics.
http://www.hydracheck.com/microbore.html

[Ando]

We use this at work for hydraulics.
http://www.hydracheck.com/microbore.html
Only thing about that hose is the ends aren't removable. It looks like a test set we have in our tool room. Exact same connectors. Someone messed one of the connectors up and we wound up replacing the whole line.

[Tunaman]

That wont work...metric.

[athomas]

They have a NPT version as well.

[DoubleDutch]

I am assembling the proper rated fill hose kits complete with gauge. I will have pics up shortly. Safe...cheap...done... ;)

Hey Tuna, for those of us planning to fill SCUBA's too, a male-to-male quick disconnect fitting would be useful too. It would go between the hose and the SCUBA fill adapter.

[nerobro]

I'll have my hoses sorted out this week. most likely by thursday so I can do the fill thing.

[Oddux]

I'm curious, for all those asking to get one, what is the best way to contact the sellers, or what/where would they ask to be considered for the first batch. There are a lot of folks eager and to put something official down would definitely save some headaches (especially for the seller).

[Ando]

Only stipulations on getting one is being mechanically inclined and be an active member here on AO. The forums are going to be used as a RnD whiteboard to get whatever gremlins that might still be looming (if any).

O'ya. And don't be that guy :cry: when something goes south on the compressor. Reason why he wants people mechanically inclined. The compressor is easy to work on from what I seen at TB4. All you need is very basic tools.

[Tunaman]

Hey Tuna, for those of us planning to fill SCUBA's too, a male-to-male quick disconnect fitting would be useful too. It would go between the hose and the SCUBA fill adapter.
My scuba adapter has the same male QD fitting as my tanks...standard Female QD is provided.

[shives007]

I missed talking to Tom at LL3. If I had talked to him, I would have told him not to wear the Vents as well ;)

I did talk to the guys at the table. The "maintenance" is almost nothing. I hesitated because, I think I really want just a 3K and all they had were 4.5K. I'm sure had I talked to Tom, he would have sold me. Now I'm regreting not pulling the trigger.

Shives

[Seth1784]

ok well i'm really considering this even though i need to see if i can justify it or talk some friends into playing around on our own hahahahah.

is the first batch ship able or is it local pick up kind of thing only?

[ElPanda]

TK what is the maintenance expectation for the shoebox? how often will it need breakdown and under what conditions? Also I hope someone creates a tutorial thread for said maintenance.

That is really the only factor I am worried about

other than that fantastic job on the price way cheaper than I expected, cant wait to get mine

[bbotts77]

At LL3 this Sunday, I was talking to Ray from Ninja. He said that a Ninja Fill Whip would not work even if you were to change the male fitting to a female fitting. The hose is not rated for a constant 4.5K psi. However, he did say he was working on a hose that would work with it.

[Swamp Thing]

I ended up picking one up at LL3

Since I flew I took it to Fed ex and swaddled it like a baby and bubble wrap and then packed it up tight and sent it ground to my house.

Once I get it I will need the hose setup from Tuna. For sure I need one for a regular tanks.

Tuna can you make one to fill a 4500 reated Fire Man SCBA Tank?

Swamp

[Beemer]

I did talk to the guys at the table. The "maintenance" is almost nothing. I hesitated because, I think I really want just a 3K and all they had were 4.5K. I'm sure had I talked to Tom, he would have sold me. Now I'm regreting not pulling the trigger.

Shives


What?? TK trained me to be Beemer Mays. Was there any questions I didnt answer for you?

Did I not say I had one for you ready to go. No shipping? Dont regret it to long. Get on the list and we can ship you one. :cheers:

[Tunaman]

I ended up picking one up at LL3

Since I flew I took it to Fed ex and swaddled it like a baby and bubble wrap and then packed it up tight and sent it ground to my house.

Once I get it I will need the hose setup from Tuna. For sure I need one for a regular tanks.

Tuna can you make one to fill a 4500 reated Fire Man SCBA Tank?

Swamp
I am only going to provide the Female QD on the tank end...you will have to reduce it or configure it to work on the SCBA valve/fittings. If I knew what valve you had I could figure it out.

[shives007]

Sorry, Beemer. You did a great job selling it. :(

Shives

[Tunaman]

and everyone buying a compressor be sure to go pick up a spray can of white lithium grease. That is the recommended lube.

[Beemer]

TK what is the maintenance expectation for the shoebox? how often will it need breakdown and under what conditions? Also I hope someone creates a tutorial thread for said maintenance.

That is really the only factor I am worried about

other than that fantastic job on the price way cheaper than I expected, cant wait to get mine

There are only six orings. Three in each cylinder. Unscrew one nut and a fitting, remove one c-clip. Its so simple a cave man could do it. Even I can do it. The Thread is already in the works.

Patience, perfection isnt fast. :D

[Beemer]

I ended up picking one up at LL3

Since I flew I took it to Fed ex and swaddled it like a baby and bubble wrap and then packed it up tight and sent it ground to my house.


Swamp

Let us know how the shipping goes. We want to ship with out the bleed pin in for fear of getting bent.

[Beemer]

and everyone buying a compressor be sure to go pick up a spray can of white lithium grease. That is the recommended lube.

Doh spray is messy. Get a can and use a Q-tip to apply. Its like BrillCream a little dab will do ya between fills. The spray has carriers ya dont need. ;)

[joeyt]

I am talking to Ninja about having the proper hose.

I will let everyone know a cost once it is available.

any word from ninja yet?

[Jacobd]

and everyone buying a compressor be sure to go pick up a spray can of white lithium grease. That is the recommended lube.

AH ha! I was wondering about lubrication requirements, is there any way the grease would get into the tank? and create a potential safety hazard if you (or someone) went to flash-fill the tank later?

[Tunaman]

AH ha! I was wondering about lubrication requirements, is there any way the grease would get into the tank? and create a potential safety hazard if you (or someone) went to flash-fill the tank later?
TK says not to worry. Only a smidgeon of lube is needed on the shafts. A small filter would do the trick. I may supply one with the hose kits.

[BenoitOWN]

any word from ninja yet?

They told me last week to let them 1-2 week before they finds the best option.

[joeyt]

They told me last week to let them 1-2 week before they finds the best option.

thank you.

[JKR]

TK says not to worry. Only a smidgeon of lube is needed on the shafts. A small filter would do the trick. I may supply one with the hose kits.

Definitely would be great if you supplied a filter with the hose kits. Keep us posted.

[nerobro]

now, where are we worried "stuff" will come from? (concerning the filter thing...) You have a storage tank after the main compressor. My compressor has a filter on the intake, to stop sand, bugs, and small children.

Then the compressor itself only runs for .. oh.. 2 minutes each hour. Giving lots of time for dust to settle, water mist to settle out. And since the shoebox draws very little air, it's not like there's a big rush of air to suck foreign matter out of the main storage tank.

... Yes, I'm making an argument that filters aren't a huge concern. :-) Well "I" am not concerned yet. I've had three fill nipple failures though. However that's due to some other issues. Namely ten year old o-rings.

As for the stuff on the output side... If anything serious were coming out that side, I'd be worried about the health of my shoebox. I know at least some of my regs dump their input air directly into the tank, instead of at the reg seat.

[Beemer]

Well we know some water getting into the ShoeBox aint an issue for it cause its been done in testing. ;)

[JKR]

now, where are we worried "stuff" will come from? (concerning the filter thing...) You have a storage tank after the main compressor. My compressor has a filter on the intake, to stop sand, bugs, and small children.

Then the compressor itself only runs for .. oh.. 2 minutes each hour. Giving lots of time for dust to settle, water mist to settle out. And since the shoebox draws very little air, it's not like there's a big rush of air to suck foreign matter out of the main storage tank.

... Yes, I'm making an argument that filters aren't a huge concern. :-) Well "I" am not concerned yet. I've had three fill nipple failures though. However that's due to some other issues. Namely ten year old o-rings.

As for the stuff on the output side... If anything serious were coming out that side, I'd be worried about the health of my shoebox. I know at least some of my regs dump their input air directly into the tank, instead of at the reg seat.

I am filtering the input to the Shoebox (when I get one) to minimize the chances of any moisture making it to my tank. It may not harm the Shoebox or be an issue with it's operation, but I don't want increasing amounts of condensation making it to my tank. If any condensation makes it to the tank, it will accumulate as time passes and I personally don't want water sloshing around in my tank and the rust that could happen to the reg springs, etc. They wouldn't make moisture trap filters if compressors didn't put out some water from the main tank in operation. There will be some amount of moisture, albeit a small amount, that comes from the shop compressor. The particulate filtration is just another layer of protection. Sure, the shop compressor may have a crude filter to keep out big stuff, but I like the idea of filtering down even smaller particals after the air leaves the compressor heading to the Shoebox.

Now the filter that Tunaman is talking about is something different altogether. He is going to supply the hoses on the output of the Shoebox. The filter he is thinking of including is for the output of the Shoebox. I take it that this filter (a high pressure 4500 psi model) is there to address the concerns of the Shoebox oring/seal lubrication making it's way into your tank. As we all know, any amount of oil/grease inside your tank is a very bad thing!

[Swamp Thing]

Got my compressor from Fed Ex. Looks to be in great shape. Waiting on a solution for the fill hose/filter options before I will be able to test it.

Swamp

[kd4arf]

I am filtering the input to the Shoebox (when I get one) to minimize the chances of any moisture making it to my tank. It may not harm the Shoebox or be an issue with it's operation, but I don't want increasing amounts of condensation making it to my tank. If any condensation makes it to the tank, it will accumulate as time passes and I personally don't want water sloshing around in my tank and the rust that could happen to the reg springs, etc. They wouldn't make moisture trap filters if compressors didn't put out some water from the main tank in operation. There will be some amount of moisture, albeit a small amount, that comes from the shop compressor. The particulate filtration is just another layer of protection. Sure, the shop compressor may have a crude filter to keep out big stuff, but I like the idea of filtering down even smaller particals after the air leaves the compressor heading to the Shoebox.

Now the filter that Tunaman is talking about is something different altogether. He is going to supply the hoses on the output of the Shoebox. The filter he is thinking of including is for the output of the Shoebox. I take it that this filter (a high pressure 4500 psi model) is there to address the concerns of the Shoebox oring/seal lubrication making it's way into your tank. As we all know, any amount of oil/grease inside your tank is a very bad thing!

I too have been looking very closely at a filter for the input to the shoebox that will both eliminate water, oil and any particulate matter.

The best looking/working filter for a low price, and with a good rep, is the Beach F-GGC filter. They run about $57-60 and will filter down to .3 micron and are good for about 300,000 CF of air. Now I imagine that the dryer the air going into the unit the longer it will last. I look at it as a lifetime filter as I will be keeping a 75 CF tank at 4500psi and doubt I will use more than 3-4 hundred CF of air a year for my PCP Guns.

Anyway the PDF file attached and has all the info on the filter.

Steve

[kd4arf]

I too have been looking very closely at a filter for the input to the shoebox that will both eliminate water, oil and any particulate matter.

The best looking/working filter for a low price, and with a good rep, is the Beach F-GGC filter. They run about $57-60 and will filter down to .3 micron and are good for about 300,000 CF of air. Now I imagine that the dryer the air going into the unit the longer it will last. I look at it as a lifetime filter as I will be keeping a 75 CF tank at 4500psi and doubt I will use more than 3-4 hundred CF of air a year for my PCP Guns.

Anyway the PDF file attached and has all the info on the filter.

Steve


I thought I had attached a file...but I guess it didn't work. If anyone would like a copy of the specs e-mail me at kd4arfatyahoodotcom and I will send you a copy. The other filters that folks have suggested didn't have and good specs to study.

Steve

[BenoitOWN]

Response from Ninja:


We have to talk to Tom about the compressor and the hose and this will take some time. We have to make sure that it does not build up too much heat, moisture and make sure that we didn’t miss anything.

[Beemer]

Response from Ninja:

Tunaman for the win. ;)

[MANN]

just out of curiosity why not use swagelok/parker products. That is what all the internals are. (or an off brand of either).

[SSP REAPER]

Tuna,

How much will the hose kit cost roughly?
:cheers: