Air issue...

[KillerOfGiants]

RT ULE, xvalve, ult, lvl 10. Marker is with tech right now as he said he'd try messing with it. He says it may need the on/off shimmed more but isn't sure. The symptoms are; thread in the tank, fires for a bit, then stops. I unthread the tank, rethread it and it automatically fires once it's pressurized. Then I can fire a few more shots, it stops, and so on and so forth. I'll be ordering some parts from AGD tonight or tomorrow to just have them on hand in case I need 'em but was curious if anyone else had ideas. When I get it back I'll do a little vid to actually show the issue, too.

Thanks.

[Guardian]

First off , what spring are you using ?

Any one of these could be the culprit . Velocity may need turned up more . The on/off pin could be sticking in the oring . Just oil that oring or replace it (and oil the new oring) . Also make sure the front frame screw isn't too tight , that can cause the bolt to stick .

[Ando]

Have you tried oiling it? :rolleyes:

Was it working fine and then all of the sudden started doing this? If so, have the tech replace the bolt spring. If you just got it you might want to tweak the lvl 10 and go ahead and just replace the bolt spring for GP.

Are you using a 800+psi tank?

Have you oiled it? :rofl:

[iridehyperlite07]

I agree with the above... Oil it good. Oil everything inside and put oil in the ASA or macro fitting to the valve. It sounds to me like the pin is sticking in the ULT. Mine did that too. I pulled it apart, oiled it and put it back in. It wasn't engaging with the sear so it wouldn't reset the bolt. You COULD have bolt stick too, which is a carrier issue... The most realistic thing to me would be that the ULT pin is sticking, or you just need to oil the inside of the valve components.

[KillerOfGiants]

I'll be picking it up from the tech friday afternoon(since the field is open then). I had put some oil in the ASA..... that was it. :( I feel bad now lol. It was working fine, and it seemed to be a gradual thing. The first time it happened, I took the tank off and either the oring broke or I broke it. I thought that was it, got a new one, and then it slowly started happening sooner and sooner. The tech told me earlier today that it seems to work fine as long as I don't pull the trigger in all the way but I don't have it to play with so not quite sure the meaning of that. I'll need to pick some parts up from AGD or Tuna for ULT and whatnot as I got just the gun, no parts or anything. Also, the tank, I bought a 70/45 and it was working just fine like I mentioned. When I first noticed the problem it still had up around 3k left.

Edit: Velocity was set around 270fps because of field requirements. Also, would like to mention that when the 'mag is repressurized, it automatically fires one shot. Then like I said, I'm able to fire a little more, then stops. Repressurize, automatically fires ones shot, repeat. Didn't know if that automatic shot was a symptom of the sticking pin, bolt, or oiling.

[Guardian]

That automatic shot happens when you press the trigger when the mag is degassed . The on/off is a minature valve , pressing the trigger opens that valve , then that valve is closed by air pressure from the tank . With the air disconnected , there is nothing to close the on/off . Hence when you air it back up , air blows right through the on/off and out the barrel .

As for the trigger issue , first air up your mag when you get it back . There should be a small gap (about the thickness of a credit card) between the trigger and sear pin . If that looks good , liberally oil the on/off assembly . If it still sticks , you have a couple options which are replace the orings in the ULT , add shims to the ULT , and/or buy a shorter on/off pin ($8 from AGD or Tuna) .

[athomas]

How many shims are in your ULT? Start with 4 and add one at a time until it goes full auto. Then remove the one that caused the full auto/uncontrolled reactivity.

[KillerOfGiants]

With the degassed trigger pull you mentioned Guardian, I can understand that. I was firing at pretty good rates when I ran out of air every time and played with the trigger in a confused way each time. The tech txt'd me saying he thinks he fixed it, apparently it's not doing that now. I have another ULT kit ordered from Tuna(I bought the mag without any parts so i need some organ donars lol). Thanks for the ULT tuning info athomas, as I was curious about that for when the kit arrived. I wanted to try getting it super nice.

Anyways, friday night will let me gas it up here at home and play with it some. I'll be able to take a vid of any issues I'm having, too.

EDIT: Completely random from my issue but does anyone know the distance between the screw holes for the intelliframe ASA? I was wanting to call the local pro-shop about on/off ASA's and I don't know what fits our 'mags.

[iridehyperlite07]

With the degassed trigger pull you mentioned Guardian, I can understand that. I was firing at pretty good rates when I ran out of air every time and played with the trigger in a confused way each time. The tech txt'd me saying he thinks he fixed it, apparently it's not doing that now. I have another ULT kit ordered from Tuna(I bought the mag without any parts so i need some organ donars lol). Thanks for the ULT tuning info athomas, as I was curious about that for when the kit arrived. I wanted to try getting it super nice.

Anyways, friday night will let me gas it up here at home and play with it some. I'll be able to take a vid of any issues I'm having, too.

EDIT: Completely random from my issue but does anyone know the distance between the screw holes for the intelliframe ASA? I was wanting to call the local pro-shop about on/off ASA's and I don't know what fits our 'mags.

If you're talking about bottomline ASA that connects to the butt of the frame it is a standard set, meaning that any standard duck bill or ASA will fit as long as it is a direct mount.

[KillerOfGiants]

Alright, so I got it back last night(the tech let me play several hours with is PM8 so I didn't take a vid last night or mess with it). My debit card fits pretty snug between the trigger and sear rod. I dont think the tech did anything tuning wise and I don't remember the trigger being that sensitive but now I wish it was operating as it should 'cuz that's awesome. But anyways, don't mind me taking forever to thread the tank in(i picked up a CP on/off but i want to get macroline before messing with that). As you can see, I thread it in and it fires, then I'm able to fire a couple more before it stops. The reason I was playing with the trigger after the shots is because if I hold the trigger in, you can hear air somewhere and if I hold it down long enough it goes away like it ran out(I'm thinking the air in the valve?). Anyways, I just wanted to go ahead and post this up before I mess with it. My ULT kit hasn't arrived from Tuna yet so I don't have the spare parts to tune the current ULT.

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[iridehyperlite07]

Alright, so I got it back last night(the tech let me play several hours with is PM8 so I didn't take a vid last night or mess with it). My debit card fits pretty snug between the trigger and sear rod. I dont think the tech did anything tuning wise and I don't remember the trigger being that sensitive but now I wish it was operating as it should 'cuz that's awesome. But anyways, don't mind me taking forever to thread the tank in(i picked up a CP on/off but i want to get macroline before messing with that). As you can see, I thread it in and it fires, then I'm able to fire a couple more before it stops. The reason I was playing with the trigger after the shots is because if I hold the trigger in, you can hear air somewhere and if I hold it down long enough it goes away like it ran out(I'm thinking the air in the valve?). Anyways, I just wanted to go ahead and post this up before I mess with it. My ULT kit hasn't arrived from Tuna yet so I don't have the spare parts to tune the current ULT.

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From what I have heard, and learned, when you pull the trigger to push the piston while the air is off, and then re-air it, it will fire because the valve is open when the air is screwed in, which then fires it and resets itself. It looks to me like this is what happened there because you pushed the trigger in the video while the air was out.

The other issue of it not firing appears to either be bolt stick, which is caused when the bolt is not pushed all the way back against the bumper. You SHOULD, theoretically, be able to fix that by using a different carrier size (bigger). First, to see if it is in fact bolt stick and not a piston issue, try pushing the bolt back with the barrel off using a swab or something long that will fit down the chamber. You should be able to push the bolt back against the bumper and hear it "click" when the sear reengages. This will reset the piston behind the trigger and make it ready to shoot again. If this is the case then the carrier is the problem.

I don't know what your PSI is set at, but if it is too low it will also not reset the bolt, regardless of the carrier size. Anyway, try these things out and see if they work. Hope that helps!

[athomas]

Definately bolt stick. Try a larger carrier size.

When holding the trigger after a shot, some of the residual air in the chamber will leak out due to the remaining pressure not being high enough to seal against the oring. This is normal for the level 10.

You can prevent the first shot when screwing an air tank onto the ASA by holding the trigger in.

[KillerOfGiants]

awesome, thanks guys. the other night the tech and i were talking about the issue and other markers and he said you could reset the bolt by putting a swab down the chamber and pushing it back. now there's the issue, i dont have any spare parts like that and i dont think a ULT comes with it so any idea what parts i would need from AGD/Tuna?

oh, also, when i take the thumb screw out to slide the valve out, it doesnt come out all the way. it'll come out a little and be able to slide back and forth but it's like it's getting caught on something.

guess i could've read the lvl10 tech tips but i see that if the carrier is smaller(larger oring? kind of goofy like the discs on a supertrapp exhaust... anyways), then they say to oil daily.... which hasnt been done lol. i guess i'm going to drop some oil down the power tube and around the bolt. see what happens. if nothing, then ordering parts. Played around with it some more, oiled up a lot, put air in and it didnt fire automatically nor would it fire with a trigger pull. it's like no air was in it. i went to take it apart and i found out that the on/off pin is sticking through the body so the xvalve wont slide right out like it should.

mmm, a 3rd edit. anyways, when you guys say replace the carrier... does the lvl10 kit actually come with multiple carriers or can i get a shim kit like actionvillage has and shim it?

[KillerOfGiants]

sorry about the crappy quality but WHAT THE **** is this little guy? lol. i havent noticed it until today when i was dry firing into a blanket oh lookie there a little black tri-thingy ma-jig. now i cant get it to stay in the.... bolt?

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg256/RosieKR/wt002.jpg

[Ando]

That's your bolt fomie. Re-glue it or you can just leave it out, not going to affect anything.

[iridehyperlite07]

awesome, thanks guys. the other night the tech and i were talking about the issue and other markers and he said you could reset the bolt by putting a swab down the chamber and pushing it back. now there's the issue, i dont have any spare parts like that and i dont think a ULT comes with it so any idea what parts i would need from AGD/Tuna?

oh, also, when i take the thumb screw out to slide the valve out, it doesnt come out all the way. it'll come out a little and be able to slide back and forth but it's like it's getting caught on something.

guess i could've read the lvl10 tech tips but i see that if the carrier is smaller(larger oring? kind of goofy like the discs on a supertrapp exhaust... anyways), then they say to oil daily.... which hasnt been done lol. i guess i'm going to drop some oil down the power tube and around the bolt. see what happens. if nothing, then ordering parts. Played around with it some more, oiled up a lot, put air in and it didnt fire automatically nor would it fire with a trigger pull. it's like no air was in it. i went to take it apart and i found out that the on/off pin is sticking through the body so the xvalve wont slide right out like it should.

mmm, a 3rd edit. anyways, when you guys say replace the carrier... does the lvl10 kit actually come with multiple carriers or can i get a shim kit like actionvillage has and shim it?

You will need the LVL 10 parts kit. You can buy them from AGD or sometimes find them around here for a little cheaper. You can also sometimes find them on ebay for a complete set that is a little cheaper than the straight buy from AGD. To answer your other question, yes, the LVL 10 does come with multiple sized carriers that are sized by a series of lines and dots. One line equals two dots... The more lines and dots the bigger the carrier. Use the biggest carrier that doesn't leak, etc etc. Anyway, that is all you need for the LVL 10. It will also come with the different sized/strength springs that you might need, depending on whether you have them already... It will have a silver, gold, and red spring that are different strengths to affect how responsive the bolt is and how much tension is on it, pushing it back against the bolt bumper. I have heard different things about which to start with, but would suggest starting with the red one first to tune the bolt in.

[KillerOfGiants]

so i've been messing with carriers and whatnot. the largest one that came with my kit was a 1.5, that's too large and leaks pretty good. the next one down, my 1.0, fits and rips like it should.... does a "popopopopopopop pssssssssshhhh". i have an on/off on now so i dont have to push the bolt back, just degas & regas. i messed with the springs but the only one that will work is the shortest one, the other 2 wont work what-so-ever. tomorrow i'll mess with going to a 0.5 & 0.0 just for the heck of it.

[athomas]

so i've been messing with carriers and whatnot. the largest one that came with my kit was a 1.5, that's too large and leaks pretty good. the next one down, my 1.0, fits and rips like it should.... does a "popopopopopopop pssssssssshhhh". i have an on/off on now so i dont have to push the bolt back, just degas & regas. i messed with the springs but the only one that will work is the shortest one, the other 2 wont work what-so-ever. tomorrow i'll mess with going to a 0.5 & 0.0 just for the heck of it.Don't go to a smaller carrier if it doesn't leak while sitting ready to fire. Use the largest one that does not leak without any level 10 shims installed. Once the proper carrier is installed, change bolt springs. The proper bolt spring will allow you to operate the gun at about 20 fps above the lowest velocity that the gun will cycle at. ie; If the gun starts to cycle at 260fps and you want to operate at 280fps, then you have the proper bolt spring installed. If the gun starts to cycle at 275fps and you want to operate at 280fps, then you need to install a lighter bolt spring to allow a lower starting velocity.


Once you have the proper level 10 carrier installed, tune the ULT. Start with 2 ULT shims and and add one at a time until the gun goes full auto. Then remove the one that caused the problem and you should be good to go.

[KillerOfGiants]

hmm, ok. i just put 2 shims in it because that's what the illustration showed on the main page and i honestly didn't think it'd affect the tuning that much. i'll take those out since 1.0 works for a few shots and 1.5 leaks. i also havent messed with the ULT at all since the trigger feels great and i really cant figure out how to unscrew the 2 parts lol. but once i figure that out, i'll move on to tuning that, too. thanks... hopefully it can be tuned before tonight/weekend, i want to tear up some little kids and their Egos(pun intended). :headbang:

[iridehyperlite07]

hmm, ok. i just put 2 shims in it because that's what the illustration showed on the main page and i honestly didn't think it'd affect the tuning that much. i'll take those out since 1.0 works for a few shots and 1.5 leaks. i also havent messed with the ULT at all since the trigger feels great and i really cant figure out how to unscrew the 2 parts lol. but once i figure that out, i'll move on to tuning that, too. thanks... hopefully it can be tuned before tonight/weekend, i want to tear up some little kids and their Egos(pun intended). :headbang:

If you pull on the two halves of the ULT housing and unscrew it at the same time it will force the threads to catch and unscrew itself, exposing the shims. it is designed to have some free play between the two so if you don't put pressure on the two halves the threads will just sit there and spin with no result.

[Hook]

oh, also, when i take the thumb screw out to slide the valve out, it doesnt come out all the way. it'll come out a little and be able to slide back and forth but it's like it's getting caught on something.

On/off pin is sticking out. Pull the trigger, you'll be able to remove the valve after. Mine does that from time to time.

[KillerOfGiants]

thanks, no more issues with the pin.

now, FOR THE LOVE OF AGD, the bolt keeps sticking. i took out all my carriers and went through one by one, NO SHIMS, testing them. 0.0, no. 0.5 & 1.0 seemed to work the best. went up to 1.5 and i think it was worse than 0.0 when it came to how many shots it'd fire before the bolt would stick and i noticed a little leaking with it. i have no idea where to go from where. now, if the ULT would somehow be causing the bolt to stick, i'll take it out and break it down but the trigger is working fine... it's just that damned bolt. i'm using the shortest spring.

edit: nevermind, 1.5 isnt an issue. it just keeps sticking and after reading the main page along with what others have said, i'm just going to buy some more carriers from AGD since the largest the lvl10 kit comes with is a 1.5. :( it doesnt matter which clear-ish oring i put in any carrier does it? i wouldnt think they'd have those size specific. also, when ordering carriers from AGD, do they come with the clear little oring that goes on the valve side of the carrier?

[mag79]

pm sent

I have a large set of carriers, I think you are missing the steel washer and c clip. The streel clip protects the inside of your body, without it the bolt will chew up the inside. It will cause your bolt to stick. I've seen it on the last 2 guns I tuned for other members.

[athomas]

When you are changing carriers, always use the same white oring in each one. Its the inner diameter of the oring that you are adjusting. Once you find the largest carrier size that does not leak when sitting in the ready position, then your level 10 carrier size is correct. The ULT can cause sticking if the top of the on-off pin is too far in the top ULT oring. This can be fixed by adding additional ULT shims.