PPS Brass Barrel, venting and bore opinions please!

[Groff]

I was looking for opinions on two things. The first is the venting PPS offers. It is none, single and double. The description for venting is clear, it increases accuracy by dissapating the air jet behind the ball before it exits the barrel so there is less to knock it off course. In my imagination it would also make your gun less effecient on air by decreasing the distance the paintball can travel. So my question is... just how much venting is too much venting? Anyone ever use a NON vented barrel? I'm unsure whether the difference would even be noticeable.

The second item worrying me is the bore options, .685 and .690. Now I play a lot of woodsball so it's usually pretty hot out. I haven't been known to play in the pre or post summer heat but that's going to change, I've been out of the game for five years and I plan on starting to play heavily. With that in mind, what bore size would work the most on average? In the summer heat does the outer diameter of the paintball actually increase to .69? Would I be slitting my own throat trying to use the .685 all year round? I have a pipe kit and have never had any luck with matching the paintball's diameter to it, I was told by a lot of people that some days, whether you have a kit or not, you'll be fighting the paint. It always seemed as if I was ALWAYS fighting the paint, lol.

Thanks for reading, I'm looking to buy a brass barrel and a squall and am trying not to make a mistake.

Groff

[garbageman705]

Most of the paint is going to be smaller than .685 these days. Brass is slippery too so a tight bore should be better in my opinion.

[GoatBoy]

Why exactly do you want a Squall?

[zondo]

I've got a PPS barrel that's not ported for my Automag. I'm running into the same issue as a lot of people are with paint size because even my .685 is not matched well with my FPO paint... so I can't comment on efficiency firsthand, but it does stand to reason that good paint to barrel match or moving toward underborring will increase efficiency. That said, I don't think the porting that Palmers does effects the shot a whole lot due to the short distance that it covers (looks like only ~2-3 inches). I will say that the sound signature is louder without porting.

[going_home]

Why exactly do you want a Squall?

Great question, I was thinking to myself....

"self, why would anyone want anything PPS especially barrels,
let alone a marker that works sometimes, and needs to be sent back
to caleefornia once a year to re-tune it"

I had a Blazer once.
Cured me of ever wanting anything else from PPS.
Come to think of it i bought a new Ford in 1986 that did the same thing to me.

;)

[Groff]

With the barrel it's all hype really. I was looking for a good general barrel to use in most situations which deep down I know probably doesn't exist. With the characteristics of brass and the supposed effects it's had on people's air effeciency it seemed like a good experiment. "Supposedly" brass has less friction on the paintball gelatin and people are having a jump of 30+ at the chronograph. So I'd basically be getting more shots per tank without investing in something larger than my 68ci/4.5k tank. They claim the eliptical boring is awesome with all kinds of paint which is a big factor for me because I jump to different fields a lot depending on which friends are playing at the time, /shrug.

Not to have this turn into a squall review, with the squall I was introduced to a game with all pistols and in all honesty I haven't laughed that hard in years, it was an absolute blast. Now I don't have a pistol but a gentleman that sat out for a couple of games let me use his squall. I did extremely well during those games because that handgun's accuracy was just as good as any other marker (not pistol... marker) at 50 - 60ft. out. Now for that accuracy AND have the paintball break was impressive to me, I was hit quite a bit but the paint never broke. Also, the reason I bring up the squall is that it's apparently eliptically bored as well, /shrug.

Now the fact that I'd probably have to send the pistol back to PPS to have it retuned every year is news to me. I've never read that in any review and is quite depressing to hear. I'd love to hand my money to AGD but the Sydarm is no longer available. :(

At the moment the the responses I've gotten have been mixed, I might have to just dump money on the barrel and find out for myself.

Thanks for reading and taking time to respond,
Groff

[Hobbez]

I'd love to hand my money to AGD but the Sydarm is no longer available. :(

^ This is something that needs to change. Are you listening Tom!?

[2BAD4U]

I was looking for opinions on two things. The first is the venting PPS offers. It is none, single and double. The description for venting is clear, it increases accuracy by dissapating the air jet behind the ball before it exits the barrel so there is less to knock it off course. In my imagination it would also make your gun less effecient on air by decreasing the distance the paintball can travel. So my question is... just how much venting is too much venting? Anyone ever use a NON vented barrel? I'm unsure whether the difference would even be noticeable.

The second item worrying me is the bore options, .685 and .690. Now I play a lot of woodsball so it's usually pretty hot out. I haven't been known to play in the pre or post summer heat but that's going to change, I've been out of the game for five years and I plan on starting to play heavily. With that in mind, what bore size would work the most on average? In the summer heat does the outer diameter of the paintball actually increase to .69? Would I be slitting my own throat trying to use the .685 all year round? I have a pipe kit and have never had any luck with matching the paintball's diameter to it, I was told by a lot of people that some days, whether you have a kit or not, you'll be fighting the paint. It always seemed as if I was ALWAYS fighting the paint, lol.

Thanks for reading, I'm looking to buy a brass barrel and a squall and am trying not to make a mistake.

Groff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwN03gMASew&feature=related :)

[Skeeter]

^ This is something that needs to change. Are you listening Tom!?

Hmmm... I bought up a bunch, duing the last production batch (around 2005, IIRC)... Still have a few, new in box, if you want. PM me, if interested.

[GoatBoy]

There's no data that indicates porting has any effect on accuracy.

If anything, when the porting gets clogged with dirt/paint -- it ruins your accuracy, and can take a while to clean out.

Empirically, porting makes the shot a little quieter, although I've honestly not seen lab data for that either.

I believe there is some data that indicates overboring will give you better velocity consistency at the expense of slightly worse efficiency. If you're not a paint hoser, you probably don't need to worry about the efficiency.

Personally, I use a .689 J&J ceramic, all the time (on my primary marker; not on my pistol). I don't "size" any of the paint I use. The only problems I have are when the paint has dimples or isn't very round, or some other defect of that sort. If it's round, I'm good to go. It can be the cheapest, most maligned field paint ever, but as long as it's round, I have no problems.

Squalls go for, what, 500-600 used? All for a marker that, as far as I can tell, doesn't even have a primary regulator. It has one for the ram, but not for the primary firing. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. In any event, this results in pathetic velocity performance:

http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/paintguns/pps/squall/index.shtml

It's a waste of money. It was worth it when nobody else was making pistols. There's better stuff for the money nowadays.

Palmer's stuff is in general overpriced, and they only seem to want to make the barrels the way they want to make them. If you're happy with their options, fine.

Can't say I've really been that impressed with their service, either.

[going_home]

robertsr1811 makes his own mag pistols.


Depending on your level of proficiency, you might think about an under the barrel ASA. It makes it easier to deal with the right feed problem.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g21/robertsr1811/100_0424.jpg

This is my first pistol build. Now granted it's a little easier to do on a classic mag as opposed to a Micro, but you get the general idea. Since you're running line instead of direct connecting to the valve, you get a lot of lattitude on the feed area.

Steve Spinosa had someone machine him some adapters to use on the feedgates of micromags to allow one of the clip designs to just clip on. It was slick as heck, and could possibly be done with a dremel and drillpress if you were feeling sparky...

Do you have any idea what kind of spring feed you want to use? That's really your starting point...

taken from :

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=250987


What i meant about PPS markers is even with directions most PPS owners still
cant fix their own markers, and there really isnt a "PPS community" like there
is for mags and cockers, so most end up sending their markers back to PPS to fix.

:ninja:

[CatoRockwell]

If you are going to go with a pistol you might as well go with a magazine fed one like the new tac 8.1 or the tpx. They both will provide you with a lot more options.

[Gadget]

I've got a .685 unvented PPS barrel on my 'mag. Fairly accurate but heavy and loud. Used it a couple of times before retiring it to the cupboard and sticking with my WWA freakback & Deadlywind Whip tip combo, which is lighter, quieter and accomodates a wider range of paint.

...oh and brass looks great when polished up, but awful with a few finger prints on it! :)

[athomas]

Always err on the large size with barrels. They are more forgiving than tighter barrels. If you like to get on the trigger once in a while, you definately want a larger id to prevent barrel breaks. I shoot a 0.693 barrel in my mags and I always get compliments on how accurate they shoot. I shoot a larger 0.696 on my Angel with the same effect.

A bunch of small ports won't have as much affect on efficiency as large ports. They can really make a difference on the sound signature though compared to a barrel without ports. I have tried barrels with muzzle breaks on them too. A tight bore with a muzzle break is not as accurate as a sized barrel or an overbore when used with paint that has an imperfection in it (thats most paint).

[Gas mask]

"I had a Blazer once.
Cured me of ever wanting anything else from PPS.
Come to think of it i bought a new Ford in 1986 that did the same thing to me." - Going Home.
I wholeheartedly agree. Also, go for the double spiral porting and make'er quiet.

[Loneassassin]

Is a Blazer not user adjustable? What's the big problem with Palmer's guns? I thought they probably tuned just like an Autococker, which isn't exactly quantum physics...(nobody has to answer this, lol.) :D

Anyway, here's my $.02 on barrel sizing:

Every brand of paint I've tried in the last 3 years or more has measured no bigger than .682. This has been important to me because I own and shoot a lot of Autocockers and Snipers. I have not been able to use anything larger than my .682 Freak insert or my .682 Kaner back without getting rollouts. I often get rollouts with my .682's. This is with Marbalizers, various DXS paint, Forumula 13, Cryptic, and many more.

Having said that, I thought it wouldn't matter much if I overbored with my Mag, because it's open bolt; the detent ensures that each ball always starts from the same place regardless of barrel size. (if you overbore with an Autococker you'll get horrible velocity consistancy and rollouts.) For the first few days of playing with my new Mag, I used the same barrel/insert/back I would use on my Cockers. The Mag shot wonderfully, very consistant over the chrono, and quite accurate.

Then last weekend, I wanted to try my Eclipse Shaft .689 barrel on the Mag. I did not have the same results, even though it is a very high quality barrel, and it has shot very well in the past when paint was larger. No, the velocity consistancy was definitely much worse than normal, with jumps of +/- 15fps, and very noticable when shooting at people. My cocker, on the other hand, shot the usual +/-2 or 3 fps using the same paint, but a slight underbore.

To make a long story less long, I'd have to say that a slight underbore is your best bet, on all guns. Or even a slight overbore. .689 is vastly overbored with today's paint.

[athomas]

Different people have different results with different setups. I used DXS paint last weekend in my emag. The Paint measured .684" on the body of the ball and .686 on the seam. I shot it with a .693 barrel. It shot so consistently that I could hit a 12" dinner plate at 100 ft with a string of shots. You could literally see the trajectory line that the paint followed because it was one after the other in the same exact line. I let others shoot it and they couldn't get over the accuracy, especially compared to their own guns they were shooting. All of them were sizing their barrels to the paint and I was the only one over-boring. I had the best accuracy of the group.

[Hobbez]

Must be a regional thing, because all 3 of the local fields here only sell DXS and if its not humid, I have to use my .689 insert. If it is really humid, I have to move up an insert by the end of the day. Living where I live now, if I was shopping for a single bore barrel, I'd likely buy .689. What you will need to buy will vary with your locale, climate, and altitude.

[robertsr1811]

Marketing Ju-ju aside, Palmer Brass are great barrels. I have an unported .689 on my pneumag, and it's easily the most consistant and accurate barrel I own. the only thing that porting changes is the sound signature of the barrel, as well as costing you a little bit of efficency.

Unported rocks, has a great sound and doesn't have problems when it rains. I'd go unported .689 and never look back, especially if you get the wedgits option, which will pretty much eliminate rollouts.

[cockerpunk]

its a tube, and a heavy one at that. and one of the most expensive ones too.

pass.

[athomas]

its a tube, ....That pretty much sums up what a paintball barrel is no matter how you look at it. :D

[PanzerGen]

One nice thing about them is you can brasso/polish them to get a mirror flash back (helps with cleaning on the field). The brass also makes the gun much quieter especially with porting. That's all the porting is really good for, reducing sound signature. A single ported brass barrel is one of the quietest barrels I have ever owned. The other thing I like was that the brass balanced out my mag (which was backheavy to the extreme). As for accuracy... its not really any different from Al barrels (I tested this with a few of mine). Paint quality trumps all else.

[cockerpunk]

That pretty much sums up what a paintball barrel is no matter how you look at it. :D

i do believe the quote from Tom Kaye is "if i had to do it all over again, i'd have done barrels. so much money has been wasted on barrels ..."

lets talk about barrels: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqkar0jAulE

[snoopay700]

i do believe the quote from Tom Kaye is "if i had to do it all over again, i'd have done barrels. so much money has been wasted on barrels ..."

lets talk about barrels: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqkar0jAulE
What was mentioned in the video is exactly what i've found in my experiences. That's why the only barrel i've ever bought was an original crown point and only because it was an original. Other than that, i just use the stock barrels.

[Newt]

The PPS dual ported takes second prize for the quietest barrel I've ever shot. However, it easily takes the blue ribbon for heavyweight category.

As for efficiency, I know my FPS jumped when I changed from a J&J two piece.

[going_home]

Personally I am using almost exclusively an 8" Apex.
Love that barrel.
Reach out and touch someone !

I was standing dead out in the open and the enemy couldnt advance or hit me
and I was taking them out one by one.
Apex on a MacDev Drone.
It was too much fun !

;)