Fixing up an old 68 Classic

[factoid]

Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum. I haven't played paintball regularly in several years, but I still have a bunch of good equipment sitting around the house and I'd like to put it to use.

I'm wondering if I can get some advice on what I should do to get my gear game-ready after a long absence.

I've got a 68 automag classic purchased around 1999-2000. It has probably less than a dozen cases of paint through it. I bought it at the height of my playing and then got busy with school and work and everything else.

I have a NitroDuck HPA system that I'm positive is long past its inspection date. The tank itself is in perfect condition but I'm not sure whether a carbon fiber tank has issues with being stored depressurized like a steel or aluminum tank would. I am not sure if it's 100% depressurized or not. Same deal with the scuba tank I used for fills. I'm sure it needs a visual inspection and it's possible it might need outright replacement. Nobody taught me back then that a tank was better kept pressurized to keep moisture out.


But aside from getting the tanks inspected and re-certified is there anything I should consider doing to my marker? I know the 68 classic is no longer in production these days. Will I have a hard time finding parts?

If I were to consider any upgrades what gives me the best bang for my buck? I can't honestly say I've kept up with the automag world, so I have no idea what parts for newer guns are backwards compatible with my classic. Can I still buy new barrels for it? Body accessories? Double trigger upgrade, etc?

If you had a lightly used, mostly stock 68 Classic in your basement what would you do with it? I'm not planning on becoming super competitive overnight, but I know the industry has changed and my equipment is old so I'd like to at least stand a fighting chance on the field.

[Ando]

You'll be more then fine with your classic. It's not the gun but the player behind it, I'm sure you know that. I was running around with a pump mag this passed weekend. Everyone else had rental piranhas, electro spiders, a few egos, a DM or 3. Even my 2 nephews that went with me had some tricked out x7 phenom. It was good times. Had alot of fun. I even got to shot an ego for the first time :D One of the guys swamped out with me for a few games. He might be coming on here to get himself a pump mag the way he was talking :rofl:

[factoid]

The one thing I was never happy with on my Mag was the accuracy. I've got a 12 inch PMI Perfect ceramic barrel. At least I think it's 12. Might be 11.

I break balls way more often than I feel like I should be. Someone told me that the whole point of a ceramic barrel is that you can dry fire the gun and get most of the paint out, which has never once worked for me. My accuracy is terrible until I squeegee the barrel and even then I usually need to run it through some soapy water and clean it well before it returns to peak form.

When balls don't break I find the accuracy to usually be acceptable, but not fantastic.

I know that I can get my marker back in good working order with just a bit of oil and probably some new O-rings, but I'm wondering what my options are for improving it. I'm not heavy back into the sport yet so I don't want to drop a ton of money, but if there's some improvements available for a classic I'd love to hear them...I just have no idea what upgrades are even compatible with a 10+ year old mag.

[Ando]

Probably the 2 best thing you can upgrade on a classic are the bolt and switching to compressed air.

Lvl 10 bolt is hands down the best upgrade period. It will alleviate your ball breakage problem.

Once you get back into the swing of things. Upgrading to a RT valve should be your next buy.

Best thing about a mag is EVERY component is interchangeable (Not including the Classic RT).

[questionful]

Sounds like you're not happy with your barrel. I don't play paintball, so I have no experience based wisdom, but I recommend you check the fit of the paint in your barrel. Like this vid I remember watching years ago:

http://webdog.specialopspaintball.com/video/tipclip/WDR11.wmv

So if the paint is not too loose and not too tight that should be best.

There's also cockerpunk's videos for accuracy research:
http://www.youtube.com/user/PunkWorksPaintball

classic mags are solid guns. they are durable, and if properly maintained, fire when you pull the trigger. what more do you want? if you want more BPS and a cool project, you could make a pneumatic frame, just search "pneumag" and you should find plenty of info. If you want lower weight, consider milling out your rail (cheap) or getting a ULE (aluminum and cocker threaded) body (expensive). Maybe a good foregrip is the only other thing I can suggest.

[athomas]

Clean the mag and inspect the orings. If any are hard or deformed, replace them. Change the bolt spring and the regulator seat oring regardless.

Don't put oil or grease on your bolt spring or on the outside of the bolt. It will cause inaccuracy due to oil transfer to the ball and then barrel.

When picking a barrel to use, try to size so that the ball barely touches on just two points opposite each other on the ball. When in doubt, overbore for overall consistency. Overboring will allow a wider variety of paint to be used without barrel breaks. The only side effect of overboring is a loss of air efficiency.

As mentioned, the level 10 is probably the best upgrade you can get for any may after compressed air. If you get the level 10 bolt for an older mag, you will also need to change the lower pressure regulator piston assembly to a new higher pressure piston assembly. An X-valve(aluminum retro valve) would be a nice upgrade because it comes stock with the level 10 bolt and higher pressure regulator piston assembly. The beauty of the X-valve is its ability to prevent short stroking because of its super fast recharge rate.

[MFM-70]

Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum. I haven't played paintball regularly in several years, but I still have a bunch of good equipment sitting around the house and I'd like to put it to use.

I'm wondering if I can get some advice on what I should do to get my gear game-ready after a long absence.

I've got a 68 automag classic purchased around 1999-2000. It has probably less than a dozen cases of paint through it. I bought it at the height of my playing and then got busy with school and work and everything else.

I have a NitroDuck HPA system that I'm positive is long past its inspection date. The tank itself is in perfect condition but I'm not sure whether a carbon fiber tank has issues with being stored depressurized like a steel or aluminum tank would. I am not sure if it's 100% depressurized or not. Same deal with the scuba tank I used for fills. I'm sure it needs a visual inspection and it's possible it might need outright replacement. Nobody taught me back then that a tank was better kept pressurized to keep moisture out.


But aside from getting the tanks inspected and re-certified is there anything I should consider doing to my marker? I know the 68 classic is no longer in production these days. Will I have a hard time finding parts?

If I were to consider any upgrades what gives me the best bang for my buck? I can't honestly say I've kept up with the automag world, so I have no idea what parts for newer guns are backwards compatible with my classic. Can I still buy new barrels for it? Body accessories? Double trigger upgrade, etc?

If you had a lightly used, mostly stock 68 Classic in your basement what would you do with it? I'm not planning on becoming super competitive overnight, but I know the industry has changed and my equipment is old so I'd like to at least stand a fighting chance on the field.

Best place for parts (stock) is here.
The $6 shipping is about 3-4 days.
http://store.airgundesignsusa.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.catalog
The website is not the smoothest thing in the world.
Be sure you are buying "Classic 68 Automag" stuff.
Regards,

[factoid]

If you get the level 10 bolt for an older mag, you will also need to change the lower pressure regulator piston assembly to a new higher pressure piston assembly. An X-valve(aluminum retro valve) would be a nice upgrade because it comes stock with the level 10 bolt and higher pressure regulator piston assembly. The beauty of the X-valve is its ability to prevent short stroking because of its super fast recharge rate.


Thanks for the tips, I really appreciate it.

When you say I need to replace the piston assembly, what exactly do you mean? Do those parts come with the level 10 kit, or is that a special part I should be looking for? I used to know my way around the inside of a Mag really well, but I'm struggling to remember which piece the piston assembly is. Is that the small stem seated into a spring that you find when you twist off the back of the regulator? If I did an X-Valve replacement wouldn't the Level10 bolt come with it? That's basically a full replacement of the marker except for the frame and trigger right? I'm interested in a level10 bolt, but I haven't seen anyone else mention replacing a piston, but then most of them were probably putting them on newer models than mine.


I'm planning on doing a full O-Ring replacement. I believe the o-ring kit also includes a replacement bolt spring. Thanks for the tip about not oiling or greasing it. That might be part of my accuracy problem...I think I always lubed that spring up in the past. I may have been contributing to some oil buildup.

I have a small tube of gun oil that I've always used on the Mag. Is that stuff OK, or is there any particular reason I should switch to the official AutoLube stuff?

[Ando]

Unscrew the velocity nut, pull the spring pack out and you'll see a brass piston inside. That's what he's talking about. Most of the time you have to change it but not all the time. Just get one anyways. Always good to have a spare.

[factoid]

Unscrew the velocity nut, pull the spring pack out and you'll see a brass piston inside. That's what he's talking about. Most of the time you have to change it but not all the time. Just get one anyways. Always good to have a spare.


Is this the part you're talking about? I assume it doesn't come standard with the Level 10 kit because only classic mags need it?

http://store.airgundesignsusa.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=30&categoryID=18


So if I buy the Level 10 kit, this piston assembly and a new set of O-Rings that's about all I should need to get back in the game?

I will probably just start with O-Rings for now, but I'm definitely interested in reducing chop. I've got a call in to the local dive shop to get my tanks inspected, then I'm back on the field, hopefully in the next couple weeks.

[tosburn3]

Is this the part you're talking about? I assume it doesn't come standard with the Level 10 kit because only classic mags need it?

http://store.airgundesignsusa.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=30&categoryID=18


So if I buy the Level 10 kit, this piston assembly and a new set of O-Rings that's about all I should need to get back in the game?

I will probably just start with O-Rings for now, but I'm definitely interested in reducing chop. I've got a call in to the local dive shop to get my tanks inspected, then I'm back on the field, hopefully in the next couple weeks.

That is the one for the level 10. If you use a Revy (and always remember to turn it on before you shoot) chops shouldn't be a problem.

I used a revy on my classic and it practically never chopped. However, it chopped pretty much every time I forgot to turn on the Revy... A gravity loader wont do well even if you have the level 10 because you will have to shake the hopper periodically to get the balls to feed.

My advice is to just get a revy and don't worry about the bolt. Level 10's are nice, but unless you are firing at a high rate it is not worth the price.

[factoid]

That is the one for the level 10. If you use a Revy (and always remember to turn it on before you shoot) chops shouldn't be a problem.

I used a revy on my classic and it practically never chopped. However, it chopped pretty much every time I forgot to turn on the Revy... A gravity loader wont do well even if you have the level 10 because you will have to shake the hopper periodically to get the balls to feed.

My advice is to just get a revy and don't worry about the bolt. Level 10's are nice, but unless you are firing at a high rate it is not worth the price.


Yeah my first set of purchases will be: VL Rev, Elbow joint, o-ring kit, barrel o-rings, new visor for my JT mask (the old one got stored wrong and now it's all bent up). I figure about 40 bucks will get me back in the game, not including the 50 bucks to get my tanks Hydro tested and inspected.

Is that piston only for use with a Level 10 though? I found one comment that made it seem as though it would be good for anyone with a compressed air rig as well.

I need to do some hunting... I find that I'm missing a bunch of my gear. I used to have a great lightweight jacket, camo pants, amber thermal lenses and a terrific set of allen wrenches and dental picks that were awesome for cleaning parts and working with O-Rings, but I can't find any of it.

[Spider-TW]

I break balls way more often than I feel like I should be.

My first mag suffered from the bad feed plug syndrome (affects power feeds only). It had the flat back feed plug that preceded both of these.

http://www.automagsuk.com/otherimages/powerfeed~plugs.JPG

The new one made a big difference in chops.

[factoid]

My first mag suffered from the bad feed plug syndrome (affects power feeds only). It had the flat back feed plug that preceded both of these.

http://www.automagsuk.com/otherimages/powerfeed~plugs.JPG

The new one made a big difference in chops.

Good tip, thanks! Is that something that could be fixed with a bit of sandpaper or am I better off just buying a new plug if mine has a flat spot?

If I remember my terminology correctly the powerfeed model is the one that intersects at a 45 degree angle, and the one that goes straight down into the barrel is a vertical feed, right? Mine is the angled one.

[sniper15]

ya, you're correct. powerfeeds go across the top of the gun, vert feed is also known as center feed, then theres left and right feed.

[athomas]

A level 10, orings and new piston will get you back in the game.

Powerfeeds intersect the the body at 90 degrees to prevent blowback air from pushing the ball stack away from the breach. They also allowed the blowback air to bounce the balls into the breach faster than gravity could feed them. The older powerfeed plugs were a bit shorter than the newer ones and had a bit of a flat spot which caused some of the balls to bind at the corner. Unfortunately sandpaper can't make them any longer. You might find an epoxy that will allow you to build the surface up so that you can shape it. I suspect it would be cheaper and easier to just by a feed plug though.

Revy hoppers are gravity fed. They do agitate but still rely on gravity to drop the balls. I was always out shooting mine with my 68Automag. The powerfeed is a must with this hopper if you don't have a level 10, but every once in a while you will pull the trigger before the ball is in the breach and chop it.

A level 10 is definately a preferred upgrade for any mag. Because of the higher operating pressures, most mags require the higher pressure piston. Even if it doesn't leak when you first use the level 10, eventually it will because operating pressure is so close to the release pressure of the piston that any wear will cause it to vent. The higher pressure pistons will work on any mag. It just makes the safety release pressure a bit higher. Most people only upgrade the level 10, but most will then experience leaking out the back in the very near future due to the piston.

As I mentioned before, the X-valve does come stock with the level 10 and higher pressure piston if you decide to go that route at a later date.

Don't use gun oil in your mag. It will eat the orings. Use a good quality synthetic air tool oil. Autolube is a good oil which is why it is supplied with automags, but any good, light synthetic oil will do.

[factoid]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I'll add some light synthetic oil to my shopping list. Fortunately most of these parts are dirt cheap. A lot of these things have gotten quite a bit cheaper since I played last. I remember in 1999 a VL Revolution was about 70 or 80 bucks, now you can get one for under 20.

My shopping list continues to grow. I'm going to wait until I've played a few rounds before I decide on a level 10 bolt, but just to rehab the mag and get it back in service I'm going to pick up:

VL Rev + elbow (another part I'm conspicuously missing)
Autolube
O-Ring Replacement Kit
Barrel O-Rings
Tank O-Rings
Powerfeed plug
Barrel plug (also missing)

Fortunately for me I think the most expensive component on the list is the hopper.

Question about the high pressure piston: Would that require an increase in the pressure from my compressed air regulator? I think I used to keep mine set around 700-800PSI It's an adjustable valve, so I think I can take it up to 1000. What's the correct setting after putting the new piston in place?

[athomas]

Question about the high pressure piston: Would that require an increase in the pressure from my compressed air regulator? I think I used to keep mine set around 700-800PSI It's an adjustable valve, so I think I can take it up to 1000. What's the correct setting after putting the new piston in place?The high pressure piston requirement is only because of the increase in operating pressure of the level 10 bolt. It doesn't affect the operation of the valve except for the increase in the amount of pressure that can build up before it vents.

The level 7 bolt requires about 350psi in the chamber to shoot a paintball at 280fps. A level 10 bolt requires between 400psi and 550 psi or higher in the chamber depending on the level 10 bolt spring being used. You should always have at least 200psi differential between the air pressure going into a regulator and the air pressure at the output of the regulator. If you run a red level 10 bolt spring the requirements of the bottle pressure regulator could be as high as 750psi or more. Higher is better. Any pressure differential greater than 200psi will help maintain a high air flow.

[factoid]

The high pressure piston requirement is only because of the increase in operating pressure of the level 10 bolt. It doesn't affect the operation of the valve except for the increase in the amount of pressure that can build up before it vents.

The level 7 bolt requires about 350psi in the chamber to shoot a paintball at 280fps. A level 10 bolt requires between 400psi and 550 psi or higher in the chamber depending on the level 10 bolt spring being used. You should always have at least 200psi differential between the air pressure going into a regulator and the air pressure at the output of the regulator. If you run a red level 10 bolt spring the requirements of the bottle pressure regulator could be as high as 750psi or more. Higher is better. Any pressure differential greater than 200psi will help maintain a high air flow.

Wow that's a lot of extra pressure. Is it correct to infer from this that I can expect to use air more air with a Level 10 bolt? i.e. fewer shots per fill? My assumption is that if the volume remains constant but the pressure is greater I must be using more air per shot.

[athomas]

The chamber uses higher pressure, but it also has a higher residual pressure left over after the shot. It does use a bit more air, but only really noticeable if you don't have the most efficient barrel for the setup you are using. The air impulse is different using the level 10 than it is with the level 7. Therefore. the length of barrel for best efficiency is also affected.

[factoid]

The chamber uses higher pressure, but it also has a higher residual pressure left over after the shot. It does use a bit more air, but only really noticeable if you don't have the most efficient barrel for the setup you are using. The air impulse is different using the level 10 than it is with the level 7. Therefore. the length of barrel for best efficiency is also affected.

Is there a method for calculating the most efficient length of a barrel? From what I've read here the optimal length for most barrels is 11". I'm pretty sure mine is a 12, because I don't think I've ever seen an 11" barrel on sale.

[athomas]

For a level 7 mag, the optimal length is about 10.5", unported. No one has really tested/posted the efficiency length for a level 10 bolt.

[tosburn3]

A level 10, orings and new piston will get you back in the game.

Powerfeeds intersect the the body at 90 degrees to prevent blowback air from pushing the ball stack away from the breach. They also allowed the blowback air to bounce the balls into the breach faster than gravity could feed them. The older powerfeed plugs were a bit shorter than the newer ones and had a bit of a flat spot which caused some of the balls to bind at the corner. Unfortunately sandpaper can't make them any longer. You might find an epoxy that will allow you to build the surface up so that you can shape it. I suspect it would be cheaper and easier to just by a feed plug though.

Revy hoppers are gravity fed. They do agitate but still rely on gravity to drop the balls. I was always out shooting mine with my 68Automag. The powerfeed is a must with this hopper if you don't have a level 10, but every once in a while you will pull the trigger before the ball is in the breach and chop it.

A level 10 is definately a preferred upgrade for any mag. Because of the higher operating pressures, most mags require the higher pressure piston. Even if it doesn't leak when you first use the level 10, eventually it will because operating pressure is so close to the release pressure of the piston that any wear will cause it to vent. The higher pressure pistons will work on any mag. It just makes the safety release pressure a bit higher. Most people only upgrade the level 10, but most will then experience leaking out the back in the very near future due to the piston.

As I mentioned before, the X-valve does come stock with the level 10 and higher pressure piston if you decide to go that route at a later date.

Don't use gun oil in your mag. It will eat the orings. Use a good quality synthetic air tool oil. Autolube is a good oil which is why it is supplied with automags, but any good, light synthetic oil will do.

Yeah revys use gravity, but under constant agitation thats still 10+ bps. Did your revy have an x-board?

I outshot the classic valve before I outshot the revy. Never had any chopping problems.

[athomas]

Yeah revys use gravity, but under constant agitation thats still 10+ bps. Did your revy have an x-board?

I outshot the classic valve before I outshot the revy. Never had any chopping problems.Once it gets flowing at constant free fall, it can do over 12 actually. However, the start stop cycle of the bolt does not allow a free flow of balls into the breach on demand. If you fire a shot, the blowback from the first shot will bounce the next shot into the breach, but the third shot will not always fall into place fast enough to allow another rapid shot. You can't always shoot consistently fast enough to out shoot a revy, but it only takes a couple of quick shots in succession to cause a chop. This is especially a concern if the gun is not perfectly vertical for all shots.

And yes, I did have an X-board. I actually still use the revy on my retro mag when I go out with it. Less to go wrong and it is more durable than my Magna or Halo in the woods.

[Spider-TW]

Barrel plug (also missing)
If you are referring to the safety device, most fields now use barrel "socks", barrel "condoms", barrel "blocking device", etc. A nylon sleeve with elastic cord. Most fields in our area will not even let you use a barrel plug. At least they are about the same price (or cheaper).

[factoid]

If you are referring to the safety device, most fields now use barrel "socks", barrel "condoms", barrel "blocking device", etc. A nylon sleeve with elastic cord. Most fields in our area will not even let you use a barrel plug. At least they are about the same price (or cheaper).


Yeah, that's what I gathered. I went ahead and ordered one because I knew I'd need it.

What was the reason for the old style plug going away? Are they considered unsafe? I suppose a plug that completely fills the barrel has the opportunity to get blasted out from pressure, or possibly cause some unsafe blowback in the marker...but that would probably only work on a non-vented barrel.

[Spider-TW]

Yeah, that's what I gathered. I went ahead and ordered one because I knew I'd need it.

What was the reason for the old style plug going away? Are they considered unsafe? I suppose a plug that completely fills the barrel has the opportunity to get blasted out from pressure, or possibly cause some unsafe blowback in the marker...but that would probably only work on a non-vented barrel.
Besides becoming a projectile, they only work for one shot. If a barrel sock is tied on well, it will take several shots to come off. I learned this (tight socks) the hard way as I had trouble with the buttons on an old matrix. After a game and leaving the field, we had been cornering some kids, their markers, and their barrel socks. While rolling my marker around in my hand, it turned on and fired twice. With the air turned off, the first one still shot the sock out of the way (wasn't tight enough) and the second shot bounced off the back of my son's head. He was all fired up, thinking it was one of the kids. :ninja: It was a cheap lesson for me.

People still keep their nice aluminum barrel plugs though. Especially the "ANuS" plugs :rolleyes: I still have a red Illustrator barrel plug.

[factoid]

Got the old girl back in business. Going to go out this weekend hopefully, just trying to figure out which field around town to head to. There's a couple, I just don't know which ones the rec players hang out at versus the really competitive players. I don't want to go out for the first time in a few years just to get schooled by pros.


Here are a couple pics I snapped. Sorry they suck, my camera phone is lousy.

http://imgur.com/kCO3t.jpg
http://imgur.com/s4KY1.jpg

The bottle isn't screwed in, I just pushed it into the ASA a bit, but you get the idea.

I also picked up my scuba tank from the dive shop today, so I was able to gas it up and get it pressurized again.

I went through and replaced EVERY O-Ring in the marker with the exception of the powertube tip o-ring which I dont' think comes in the tip because it has nothing to do with sealing air, it just holds the tip onto the tube tightly.

I had forgotten how much of a pain fresh on/off o-rings are. The Teflon O-Ring never wants to sit inside the bigger one. I could force it in by mashing the on-off valve in, but it would keep popping out. Once I gassed up the gun once it sealed up and stayed put.

The one thing that concerns me about the setup right now is that I screwed in my Guerilla Myth tank, pulled the trigger a couple times to check for leaks and stuff and everything was good, but then I screwed it off and I could hear it leaking from the tank pin area. Very soft, very slow. I could put my finger over it and stop it.

I screwed the bottle in one more time, gassed the gun up, pulled the trigger a couple times and then unscrewed it again. No leak that time. I guess it's possible this tank's pin is just a little sticky? Is that something to be concerned about? It doesn't bother me too much since it won't leak when it's screwed into the marker. I'm hoping that the pin will work itself out after a few times on and off.


Next up for this mag:

Macro Lines to replace the old microlines

Probably a gas-thru foregrip to replace the expansion chamber. The only reason I used that is because my old HPA regulator screwed into the vertical ASA with a braided hose and I don't have any microline long enough to go straight from the bottom-bottle adapter into the AIR valve and keep away from my hands, so I used this as a stop-gap measure. I'll be watching it closely to see if it contributes to any shootdown problems

Level 10 upgrade

Intelliframe

ULE mainbody

X-Valve...at which point I'll basically have an entire second mag if I buy another rail.

Some kind of eframe.

[factoid]

Here's the "before" picture with the old tank on it.

http://imgur.com/TdEkw.jpg

I liked that tank a lot. It was adjustable output up to 1200 PSI, but it's already 12 years old and for basically the same price as the hydro test I could buy a new one that has a shelf life of 20+ years.

I know I'll upgrade to a carbon-wrapped 4500 eventually, but the steel one will do fine for a while.

Thanks so much for your help everyone! The AO forum is fantastic.

[SockMonkey]

you should be able to take that tank to your scuba shop and have them put that reg on any tank you want (EDIT: if thats a 3k reg, then they should only put it on a 3k tank). My local shop does it for like 4 bucks.. even did it for free on 2 tanks when i had them hydro the tanks.

[factoid]

you should be able to take that tank to your scuba shop and have them put that reg on any tank you want (EDIT: if thats a 3k reg, then they should only put it on a 3k tank). My local shop does it for like 4 bucks.. even did it for free on 2 tanks when i had them hydro the tanks.

None of the shops I talked to would even take my paintball bottle unless I had already removed the regulator and valve. They wouldn't do it for me. If they had I probably would have just gotten this tank tested instead of buying another one.

I do like this regulator and tank but compared to newer stuff with ASA threaded regs right on the bottle it's pretty old fashioned.

[athomas]

If this bottle is 12 years old, then it is near the end of its 15 year life anyway.

[SockMonkey]

None of the shops I talked to would even take my paintball bottle unless I had already removed the regulator and valve. They wouldn't do it for me. If they had I probably would have just gotten this tank tested instead of buying another one.

I do like this regulator and tank but compared to newer stuff with ASA threaded regs right on the bottle it's pretty old fashioned.
The problem is that 850psi output is the standard HP output, so 99% of the ASA screw in bottles wont give you any RT affect on the retro, R/T, or x-valves. Unless you take them apart and shim them (I don't know how, but I have heard of it being done). I currently have a 88CI/3K tank with a Air America Raptor reg (mad for 3k tanks) and a 68CI/4.5K with an Air America Raptor Rex reg (made for 4.5k tanks). I do that because one local field only fill 3k, and the other fills 4.5k (supposedly, havent been there YET).

Neither one of those are screw in ASA regs. But both have adjustable output from 0psi-1200psi (I think). I have to use a KAPP tank cradle, but I can get my x-valve to RT at 25+BPS all day long. Local field limits me to 15bps, and thats more then enough, but I can brag about its abilities :D And if you are only using one HPA tank on your marker, what difference does it make if you can remove it easier? maybe storage?

Also, I am sure if you pay shipping (maybe a little extra), someone here or somewhere would be willing to swap those for you. Or maybe there is someone local, from here, capable of doing so. Or maybe give a local field or pro shop a try.

Then again, this wont make a difference unless you buy yourself a x-valve or equivalent.

[factoid]

The problem is that 850psi output is the standard HP output, so 99% of the ASA screw in bottles wont give you any RT affect on the retro, R/T, or x-valves. Unless you take them apart and shim them (I don't know how, but I have heard of it being done). I currently have a 88CI/3K tank with a Air America Raptor reg (mad for 3k tanks) and a 68CI/4.5K with an Air America Raptor Rex reg (made for 4.5k tanks). I do that because one local field only fill 3k, and the other fills 4.5k (supposedly, havent been there YET).

Neither one of those are screw in ASA regs. But both have adjustable output from 0psi-1200psi (I think). I have to use a KAPP tank cradle, but I can get my x-valve to RT at 25+BPS all day long. Local field limits me to 15bps, and thats more then enough, but I can brag about its abilities :D And if you are only using one HPA tank on your marker, what difference does it make if you can remove it easier? maybe storage?

Also, I am sure if you pay shipping (maybe a little extra), someone here or somewhere would be willing to swap those for you. Or maybe there is someone local, from here, capable of doing so. Or maybe give a local field or pro shop a try.

Then again, this wont make a difference unless you buy yourself a x-valve or equivalent.

The x-valve is definitely coming in the future. I need to get to know the local fields a little better before its worth it though.

Speaking of the RT effect, how easy is that to control? The videos I've seen make it look like you just apply a light, constant pressure to the trigger and the valve does the rest. Can you actually control how fast it fires? I'd like to make use of it, but at least one of the local fields prohibits full auto fire, and even guns CAPABLE of full auto fire. Is the RT effect able to be "tuned" so that it goes slower? Or is that done by the skill of the shooter?

I'm definitely holding onto my old regulator. Even if the bottle is junk, I can always stick a new one on it, and this one adjusts very high so it would be good for such things. Not very flashy, but you've seen my pics...clearly I'm not obsessed with aesthetics ;)

[SockMonkey]

The RT effect doesnt just happen at a specific pressure and speed. What happens is as you increase the input pressure, you apply a light pressure to the trigger and find the "sweet spot". At this point you no longer have to pull the trigger with each fire. You just apply a certain pressure and the trigger will 'bounce', moving and an out. The applied pressure from your finger moves the trigger in, firing the marker. Then a burst of air in the valve returns the trigger. Since you are still applying the same pressure the gun fires again.

Now with some quick fiddling, I get an RT affect starting at like 7-8bps or so. most people can cycle their marker faster then that just using semi auto (so how could you ever tell the difference?). When I use an allen wrench to adjust (increase) the input pressure, the rate of fire when 'RTing' increases. The higher the pressure the faster the RT.

The field I play at doesnt allow full auto, but an RT affect isnt considered fully automatic. BUT they still limit the rate of fire to 15bps. The chronographs at my feild will tell me the rate of fire. so I just adjust the input pressure accordingly.

**ADD**

Also, RTing is easily controlled in the sense that when I want to fire single shots, I simply pull the trigger in and it fires. The pressure to obtain RTing is usually applied near the top of the trigger. When you pull the trigger near the top of the trigger, and your finger has less leverage against the sear, making it easier for the valve to RT. When you pull the trigger normally, your finger has too much leverage against the sear, preventing RT.

[factoid]

The RT effect doesnt just happen at a specific pressure and speed. What happens is as you increase the input pressure, you apply a light pressure to the trigger and find the "sweet spot". At this point you no longer have to pull the trigger with each fire. You just apply a certain pressure and the trigger will 'bounce', moving and an out. The applied pressure from your finger moves the trigger in, firing the marker. Then a burst of air in the valve returns the trigger. Since you are still applying the same pressure the gun fires again.

Now with some quick fiddling, I get an RT affect starting at like 7-8bps or so. most people can cycle their marker faster then that just using semi auto (so how could you ever tell the difference?). When I use an allen wrench to adjust (increase) the input pressure, the rate of fire when 'RTing' increases. The higher the pressure the faster the RT.

The field I play at doesnt allow full auto, but an RT affect isnt considered fully automatic. BUT they still limit the rate of fire to 15bps. The chronographs at my feild will tell me the rate of fire. so I just adjust the input pressure accordingly.

**ADD**

Also, RTing is easily controlled in the sense that when I want to fire single shots, I simply pull the trigger in and it fires. The pressure to obtain RTing is usually applied near the top of the trigger. When you pull the trigger near the top of the trigger, and your finger has less leverage against the sear, making it easier for the valve to RT. When you pull the trigger normally, your finger has too much leverage against the sear, preventing RT.


Thanks for the tips, I'll keep that in mind when I get upgraded to that point. Probably won't be until next year. If I do any more upgrades this year I probably won't go past a level 10 bolt and an intelliframe.

Next year's upgrades will most likely be the ULE mainbody and X-Valve....unless anyone around here actually wants to play winter ball. We used to do that back in high school, but the fields around here close in october/november.