RT recharge problem

[the mag guy]

Hey AO, I got a funky problem for ya. I have an original RT and it doesnt seem to recharge correctly. I gas up the gun and I can shoot once. If I pull the trigger and let go my trigger goes dead for a few seconds just as if its not aired up. After the 5-15 second delay the rod pops back out and the gun is ready to shoot. occasionally this also occurs with decent leak down the barrel. If i snap the trigger really fast I can get a second shot off but then it does the 5-15 second delay thing. If I squeeze and hold the trigger there is no leak. I'm using the stock length RT pin. The leak down the barrel is remedied by squeezing the trigger and holding it or pulling it repeatedly until the gun shoots again. Trying to reset the bolt with a squeegie does not stop the leak either, the bolt doesn't move.

At first I thought it was the on/off pin was too long. I have 4 on/off pins: stock RT pin, emag pin and two sizes in between and I tried all 4 with similar results. I noticed the emag pin tended to leak as soon as I started to pull the trigger and would double fire occasionally. I could not get the emag pin stable, but the recharge rate seemed slightly shorter than the stock one. It didnt seem which pin I used, the problem still persisted.

Then I thought either the velocity was too low or the output pressure was too low. I cranked up the velocity until the reg started to leak and then I backed it out a half turn. I also increased the tank output pressure from 800psi to 950psi. I still had simialr porblems, but I noticed the triger was signifigantly more reactive and would bounce 3-5 times when pulled but would then go limp and I had to wait 5-15 seconds for the trigger to come back. I tried lowering the velocity and the tank pressure in small increments with no success.

I thought perhaps it had to do with the lvl 10 setup. I tried both larger and smaller carriers and found the the one with a line and a dot works the best, but I'm still having the same issue.

At this point I'm thinking it has to be spring and/or sear is causing the leak, but cant be related to the on/off recharge issue. I replaced the sear and the bolt shows no signs of wear. With the red spring in I have to have the velocity screw turned all the way in for it to shoot, but I still have the same issues with the trigger.

I've compared my valve to th exploded view and replaced EVERY oring on that dang chart. I even ran a pipe cleaner through the lines air lines on the rest of the gun searching for blockages in the line.

At this point I'm beyond frustrated and need some suggestions. I've gone through 4 tanks of air with no luck. This is the only mag I havent been able to fix and that's driving me crazy.

help me out AO

[Newt]

Check your tank reg. It may not be providing enough or consistent pressure.

[the mag guy]

Check your tank reg. It may not be providing enough or consistent pressure.
I forgot to mention that, thanks:

The tank output pressure was cranked up to 950 and while at 950 it stayed there until I manuallychanged it. I did not notice any fluctuations in output psi.
I also tested the gun on a Ninja 48/3000 fixed output tank with the same results. That's what caused me to crank up the psi past 800.

I just got off the phone with AGD, seems like the only thing I didnt check was the rod that hits the trigger. I know mine hits the trigger all the way when fully aired up. He said it was supposed to have a gap just big enough to see daylight through. I'm assuming that possibly the trigger rod is unscrewed too far and not letting the on/off push far enough down. I'll give it a shot and let y'all know!

I have to work till 10 pm or so tonight so it doesnt look like I'll have another update on this until tomorrow afternoon since I'm out of air.

[athomas]

If the trigger goes limp, its a good indication that you are experiencing bolt stick. Tune your level 10 bolt. Remove all the shims first. Then install the largest carrier that does not produce a leak when the gun is sitting at rest and ready to fire. When you have the correct oring installed, find the lowest velocity at which the gun will cycle. This value should be about 20fps below the velocity that you want to shoot at. If it is too low, go to the next longer bolt spring and find the new starting velocity. If the starting cycle velocity is too high, use the next shorter bolt spring.

Adjust your trigger rod so that it doesn't touch the back of the trigger when the trigger is held against the safety with the safety on and the gun ready to fire. The trigger rod should be as long as it can be without touching. The gap should be about a credit card thickness.

[the mag guy]

thanks athomas,

I shortened the rod in about 5 threads and it's exactly a credit card thickness away from the trigger now ( that's actually what I used to measure it). unfortunately I was out of air and I worked too late to fill the tank today. I'll try to get to a filling station tomorrow, but I'm hoping by Friday I'll have excellent news.

As for the lvl 10, I have the largest carrier that doesn't leak (one line, one dot), the bolt doesn't go all the way down the power tube unless I touch it. I went ahead and left the two shims that were in the power tube in there. For some reason the only spring I can use is the smallest one. If I use either of the other two, the gun won't fire unless I crank the velocity screw in until it wont go anymore. I'm pretty sure its not shooting below 300 fps screwed all the way so it wouldn't be field legal. With that said I'm almost certain the trigger rod problem is resolved, I just need air to confirm. Since I didn't have air to test I was pushing the sear all the way down with an allen wrench. I might have to adjust it again because I don't think the other side of the sear can go that much into the gun. Once again my issue is lack of air... As soon as I get the on/off working right I'm thinking Ill be able to use a different spring.

The last time I had a lvl ten it was on an xvalve. I used 4 shims, the dual stripe carrier and the red spring. It surprises me how totally different this gun is. Hopefully I'll get this gun ripping' in time for the weekend

[Ando]

For some reason the only spring I can use is the smallest one. If I use either of the other two, the gun won't fire unless I crank the velocity screw in until it wont go anymore. I'm pretty sure its not shooting below 300 fps screwed all the way so it wouldn't be field legal.

Were you getting any venting out the back?

Might be a bad spring pack, Reg pin or maybe the piston but I doubt the piston would cause that.

If you have another mag. Try swapping parts out with it.

[Potatoboy]

For some reason the only spring I can use is the smallest one. If I use either of the other two, the gun won't fire unless I crank the velocity screw in until it wont go anymore. I'm pretty sure its not shooting below 300 fps screwed all the way so it wouldn't be field legal.

This screams to me that there's an issue with the regulator springs.
There should be 2. A small one inside a big one.

First thing to check is that they're installed wound in opposite directions. They can wear out eventually. If you have access to another valve, I'd try swapping those out before the piston.

[the mag guy]

After shortening the trigger rod I gassed up the gun and the difference is night and day! It actually shoots consistently. I made a vid of it when I first gassed it up and it could kinda bounce, but not like what you see on youtube, its signifigantly slower, but its still cool. Regardless that's not what I care about, I just want the gun to shoot. I can crank on the trigger as fast as I'd like to shoot so I'm good. There's an occasional burp but I'll work that out later. Give me a minute to get the vid off my camera and put it on photobucket.

Thanks to all that gave me some imput. I'm still gonna check on the reg springs, but later. Anyone have an adjustable tank reg they're selling? My tank reg died and I'm in need of one. I prefer adjustable over fixed.

[Ando]

There's 2 Geddons for $80 each on BST area :cheers:

[Newt]

You might want to look into Ninja's regs. My mag LOVES my Ninja reg. Not technically adjustable, but you can shim them to the desired pressure. Mine runs ~1k psi.

[the mag guy]

So I went to the local paintball shop to get a new reg... The industry has changed since 1999 and they now use a different side and tread count for regs and tanks. So I'm out of a tank for a while because I refuse to buy a 3000 psi tank. I'm going 68/4500 or larger so I have to wait a little bit.

In the mean time, check out these two vids of the mag in full working order! :headbang: One vid is with the mevh trigger and the other is with the hyper frame hyperframe. Both vids are short because of time and size constraints. By the time I shot the hyperframe video I had less than 1000 psi.

mech trigger:
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n135/themagguy/th_slightreactivity.jpg (http://s111.photobucket.com/albums/n135/themagguy/?action=view&current=slightreactivity.mp4)

hyperframe:
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n135/themagguy/th_hyperframe.jpg (http://s111.photobucket.com/albums/n135/themagguy/?action=view&current=hyperframe.mp4)


For old time's sake, here's the pneumag I sold a few years back:
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n135/themagguy/th_better.jpg (http://s111.photobucket.com/albums/n135/themagguy/?action=view&current=better.mp4)

[athomas]

So I went to the local paintball shop to get a new reg... The industry has changed since 1999 and they now use a different side and tread count for regs and tanks. So I'm out of a tank for a while because I refuse to buy a 3000 psi tank. I'm going 68/4500 or larger so I have to wait a little bit.The tank and fitting threads have always been the same since the beginning unless you have an odd ball tank. I can take my 2000 vintage tank or regulator and exchange the parts with any of my newer ones. The only ones I remember being different, were the unregulated max flow tanks that screwed into the back of the maxflow regulators, but I can't remember if the tank threads were different. I assume they were too.

There were tanks on the market that had different threads. These were tanks that were brought from the scuba industry and adapted to paintball rather than specific paintball tanks. There are actually 4 different threads that are used in air tanks, but only one was adopted for paintball.

[the mag guy]

Yeah so nitro duck was probably one of those. If you take out the reg and look at the threaded part that screws into the tank it is as thick as a nickel! The newer ones are
about as thick as a dime.

[the mag guy]

So I'm finally content with the performance of my RT.

first off I gave up on the adjustable nitro duck tank and bought a shimmable fixed output ninja tank. Though it is 800-850psi output, I was able get some extra reactivity by shaving down the pin length halfway between the length of an emag pin and a stock pin. Check out the video below, I was able to not only get it running, but ripping pretty good. I talked to ninja and they're sending me some more shims so I can increase the output pressure and get even more bounce. I had one hopper of paint and it took me two takes to make the vid so I'm only shooting 100 balls or so. enjoy and let me know what you think.

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n135/themagguy/th_sweetrtaction.jpg (http://s111.photobucket.com/albums/n135/themagguy/?action=view&current=sweetrtaction.mp4)

[Newt]

My experience exactly. I was very close to giving up on my mag when I said "What the heck" and gave Ninja a shot.