Smart Parts Aquired!

[skipdogg]

By White Hats LLC. 68 caliber is the only news outlet for this story. From what I can tell so far, the Gardners are not involved in this..... :dance:

[d4m4don3]

so who are the invididuals who combined to create white hats llc and what are there intentions towards the companies assets?
?

[questionful]

Bwa-wa-wa-wa-wa-wa???
I demand understanding!

[BigEvil]

http://whitehatsllc.com/?page_id=2


When the whole "SP files for chapter 7" thingy happened, I was told that when it all played out it would be very confusing. I guess that was true.

[factoid]

I'm doing some digging on WhiteHats LLC. Does anyone know what state they're based in? I'll pull their incorporation papers and see whose names are on them. That stuff is public record.

The domain is registered to Domains By Proxy, which seems kinda shady, but it's just a service offered by GoDaddy, and people use it a lot to keep their name from being public and searchable by bots and spammers and stuff.

68 Caliber.com is registered to PBC Productions in New Hampshire. The administrative contact is Steve Davidson and the technical contact is Karen Davidson.

Those names are not familiar to me, nor is PBC Productions. Google isn't much help.

EDIT: I was not familiar with 68Caliber.com but I guess they're just a paintball news site? probably not connected with WhiteHats.

[d4m4don3]

I demand information! :mad:
These guys are covering there bases. :wow:

[BigEvil]

I'm doing some digging on WhiteHats LLC. Does anyone know what state they're based in? I'll pull their incorporation papers and see whose names are on them. That stuff is public record.

The domain is registered to Domains By Proxy, which seems kinda shady, but it's just a service offered by GoDaddy, and people use it a lot to keep their name from being public and searchable by bots and spammers and stuff.

68 Caliber.com is registered to PBC Productions in New Hampshire. The administrative contact is Steve Davidson and the technical contact is Karen Davidson.

Those names are not familiar to me, nor is PBC Productions. Google isn't much help.


Steve is Rabidchihauhau(sp?) here on AO

[d4m4don3]

I'm doing some digging on WhiteHats LLC. Does anyone know what state they're based in? I'll pull their incorporation papers and see whose names are on them. That stuff is public record.

The domain is registered to Domains By Proxy, which seems kinda shady, but it's just a service offered by GoDaddy, and people use it a lot to keep their name from being public and searchable by bots and spammers and stuff.

68 Caliber.com is registered to PBC Productions in New Hampshire. The administrative contact is Steve Davidson and the technical contact is Karen Davidson.

Those names are not familiar to me, nor is PBC Productions. Google isn't much help.
registerd in PA, thru keystone corporate consulting, the mcb guys are tunneling for info as well

[KoolKat]

registerd in PA, thru keystone corporate consulting, the mcb guys are tunneling for info as well

I did an LLC search in PA and saw the listing for Keystone. i think they are just a company that rents out office space though. They were listed as an address foe some reason. i couldn't much else on them.

http://www.whs-pi.com/

Are the guys I think are behind Whitehats though. They seem like middlemen that take companies on short term.

[d4m4don3]

did a search in illinois found this....


Entity Name WHITE HATS LLC File Number 01238671
Status ACTIVE On 06/15/2010
Entity Type LLC Type of LLC Domestic
File Date 07/13/2004 Jurisdiction IL
Agent Name RICHARD K. DODGE Agent Change Date 07/13/2004
Agent Street Address 2652 N LINCOLN AVE Principal Office 2652 N LINCOLN AVE
CHICAGO, IL 60614
Agent City CHICAGO Management Type MGR View
Agent Zip 60614 Duration PERPETUAL
Annual Report Filing Date 06/15/2010 For Year 2010
Series Name NOT AUTHORIZED TO ESTABLISH SERIES
Return to the Search Screen

(One Certificate per Transaction)

[Daze]

The info in the 68caliber.com post says whitehats was founded this year. It's not the Illinois group if this is the case.

Whitehats website leaves EVERYTHING to be desired.

[skipdogg]

Starting to think Tom may have some info on this...

[factoid]

registerd in PA, thru keystone corporate consulting, the mcb guys are tunneling for info as well


Well that's already a little suspicious considering Smart Parts is operated out of PA as well.

edit: Here is the PA corporate registry entry on WhiteHat Solutions. This is registered last month in Allegheny, PA which is about 40 miles from Smart Parts corporate address.

It's not "White Hats LLC" but it isn't a stretch. This is the same entry that lists Keystone Corporate Consulting as the address.

I can't find a good entry for that, but it's likely that's just the leasing agent for the building. Notice the % signs in the name...that's usually a good indication of improperly formatted database records.

https://www.corporations.state.pa.us/corp/soskb/Corp.asp?2867879

[factoid]

I did an LLC search in PA and saw the listing for Keystone. i think they are just a company that rents out office space though. They were listed as an address foe some reason. i couldn't much else on them.

http://www.whs-pi.com/

Are the guys I think are behind Whitehats though. They seem like middlemen that take companies on short term.


That URL is for a Florida company, though, not PA. And they're a high tech corporate investigation firm. They're out to find fraud, embezzelment, corporate espionage. As bad as we think Smart Parts might be, I dont' think they rise to that level of intrigue.

Besides, we get to them by search the PA registration database for "White Hats LLC" and then find "White Hat Solutions LLC" which then leads to a florida company of the same name. That's a few too many degrees of separate for me to have much confidence in.

[zondo]

Aug 20: PaintballX3 Magazine has learned today that a company called White Hats LLC will be announcing today that they have reached an exclusive arrangement with Smart Parts Inc's creditors and will be acquiring all of the company's assets, including machinery, finished goods and intellectual property. We have heard that White Hats will continue to produce and support the popular Smart Parts line and will be actively engaging in intellectual property licensing. We've also learned that 68Caliber.com will be serving as White Hats' official media outlet.

The info is all over the forums, except I didn't see it on PBN... someone on CC said it was deleted :rolleyes:

[OPBN]

actively engaging in intellectual property licensing I think this statement may say it all. :(

[cockerpunk]

my first instinct is that they bought the company for the IP and are gonna gut the rest of it. probably the smart thing to do.

[Gadget]

...Steve Davidson and the technical contact is Karen Davidson.

Those names are not familiar to me.

Steve Davidson is one of the oldest names in paintball, used to write a column for APG back in the early 90s.

[going_home]

Notice the amazing similarity of the formats and layouts of 68caliber.com and whitehatsllc.com .
Maybe Steve is one the "white hat" guys....

:ninja:

[skipdogg]

Growing more confident 'White Hats' are the good guys. Or at least have the honest intent to be.

[KoolKat]

Notice the amazing similarity of the formats and layouts of 68caliber.com and whitehatsllc.com .
Maybe Steve is one the "white hat" guys....

:ninja:


Steve's admitted to being their "Media outlet". They own the site but sounds like Steve is putting the content up as he's instructed.

[BigEvil]

Guys -

We all know that the ONLY person who has this kind of cash, foresight and moxie to pull something like this off is BEEMER. Plus, he is friends with Steve Davidson ;)

[going_home]

Guys -

We all know that the ONLY person who has this kind of cash, foresight and moxie to pull something like this off is BEEMER. Plus, he is friends with Steve Davidson ;)

Ok this needs to be adressed.
What would old people want with Smart Farts ?

:ninja:

[Beemer]

the drama starts to unfold. :argh:

[maniacmechanic]

Guys -

We all know that the ONLY person who has this kind of cash, foresight and moxie to pull something like this off is BEEMER. Plus, he is friends with Steve Davidson ;)

:hail: :hail: :rofl: :rofl:

[Ratt]

Steve Davidson is one of the oldest names in paintball, used to write a column for APG back in the early 90s.

Could that mean that the chances of him being one of the 'good guys' is pretty high?

[MANN]

Does anyone know what it sold for? just wondering.

[druid]

http://www.paintballx3.com/

The Inside Scoop, August 20 SMART PARTS NEWS
Aug 20: PaintballX3 Magazine has learned today that a company called White Hats LLC will be announcing today that they have reached an exclusive arrangement with Smart Parts Inc's creditors and will be acquiring all of the company's assets, including machinery, finished goods and intellectual property. We have heard that White Hats will continue to produce and support the popular Smart Parts line and will be actively engaging in intellectual property licensing. We've also learned that 68Caliber.com will be serving as White Hats' official media outlet.

...and here's a speculative pic posted sometime today:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v388/druidsdecendant/Paintball/Gino.jpg



...this pic should say enough........

[zondo]

Okay... speculative being the optional word.

Link to the story with the pic?

[BigEvil]

the drama starts to unfold. :argh:


HEY! Where's my NDA?? :p

[sjrtk]

If they are looking to actively support the current lines and products then there is hope for the floks who worked there. No matter how evil the brothers ended up being, their employees are the ones we should hope for in this whole mess. Lets hope these guys don't move SP manufacturing to China.

Not to mention that White Hats LLC's logo/mascot on their website is the Lone Ranger, we can hope that they are the good guys.

[OPBN]

ok, I give, who's the dude in the picture? I don't know all the industry players by sight yet.

As for the white hat meaning they are the good guys, yeah no one has ever used misleading advertising.

[druid]

Okay... speculative being the optional word.

Link to the story with the pic?

The pic was posted with the story over on MSEP I believe...or UMS...don't remember extacty but it was one of those two...

@ OPBN - That's Gino Pastoria [spelling?] [formerly] of NPS and currently of Valken Paintball...

Like I said...SP isn't the only devil in a business suit...

[paullus99]

It could be a very interesting situation - if you have a robust IP portfolio from companies that are no longer in operation, license out the best of those products to legit manufacturers and get production started again.

Of course, it could still be just a play on patent enforcement, though litigation is way more expensive today than it was even back in 2002 - 2005 (the great SP IP War).

[Chronobreak]

huh tom, whats that? :D

[ArmyEngineer]

The pic was posted with the story over on MSEP I believe...or UMS...don't remember extacty but it was one of those two...

@ OPBN - That's Gino Pastoria [spelling?] [formerly] of NPS and currently of Valken Paintball...

Like I said...SP isn't the only devil in a business suit...

I think that might be Ron's dad.

[SN toter]

The pic is Gino, but it's just a pic. In the mcb thread for this Valken said that neither Gino, or Valken, have anything to do with whitehat.

We just have friggin wait.

[druid]

The pic is Gino, but it's just a pic. In the mcb thread for this Valken said that neither Gino, or Valken, have anything to do with whitehat.

We just have friggin wait.

Well if this is the case...that's good news.

The bad news is that there's NOTHING ANYWHERE about "WH/LLC" except what's on 68 cal.

Now why would such a benevolent company hide everything they are behind the proxy of a news outlet E-Media site? :ninja:

I mean they have "our best interests in mind" right?...............didn't we hear this before by the likes of Richard Nixon, Adolph H, Jimmy Carter, Mussolini, Bush' 1 & 2, Billery C and Obama??


.................hrm??........ :argh:

[Frizzle Fry]

Not to mention that White Hats LLC's logo/mascot on their website is the Lone Ranger, we can hope that they are the good guys.

In corny old westerns (pre-spaghetti ear) the good guys wore white hats and the bad guys black ones; that's how you tell them apart in the fighting scenes (the movies were pretty light on dialog anyway...). In my field, "white hat" means a guy from the testing department who comes around and tries to hack/mod your game just to see if it can be done...


Depending on who's behind this, it's probably a good thing. The background section isn't very informative, but seems to suggest that they'll allow 3rd party development using the more lucrative patents (you know which ones they're talking about, or at least AKA guys and Powerlyte guys do...). It seems they've asked for a little time to get their crap together before the questions start pouring in.




Some White Hats Background
Posted on 20. Aug, 2010 by AdminS in Company

White Hats LLC was created by several individuals who have had long and successful careers in the paintball industry (as well as in other fields).

Their focus has been primarily in the creation and development of innovative technologies, many of which are still in use today. They also bring experience in marketing, sales and distribution to the table.

Their collective business philosophy has always been one of the long-term view, of support for growing the industry and doing so in a responsible manner.

This philosophy extends to the treatment of intellectual property as well. Their individual entities have worked cooperatively on previous occasions in the development, acquisition and licensing of paintball-related IP. They recognize and understand that the purpose of patents is to reward innovation AND to encourage new developments.

They believe in (and have demonstrated that belief in practice) the concept that it is better to grow the pie bigger than it is to try and steal a larger slice.

Their respective companies have, in the past, been amongst the first to regularly sponsor, support and endorse new ideas, new events, new teams.

IP can be used anti-competitively or to help drive innovation and cooperation. White Hats hopes to be able to do the latter as it moves forward.

White Hats has chosen, at this particular time, to release information in a slow and deliberate fashion for one primary reason: the work involved is extremely time consuming. They request your indulgence and cooperation in this matter and will be releasing additional information as it is appropriate to do so.

[MANN]

"They believe in (and have demonstrated that belief in practice) the concept that it is better to grow the pie bigger than it is to try and steal a larger slice."

That quote leads me to believe Kaye is involved...which also make since why 68caliber got the "announcement privileges". It would not surprise me if Forest was involved as well.

[Mongoose]

haha...this one is gonna be good :ninja: :D

[paullus99]

Well, it still looks like the agreement with the bank is only in "principle" so a lot of negotiating still needs to be done, I'm sure (valuation of assets, especially IP can take quite a bit of time, since you have experts on both sides that may have wildly different ideas about what things are worth in today's market).

I am very interested to see how this plays out - especially the concept of an "IP Licensing" operation - they can collect the licensing fees & have the other manufacturers pay the cost of production.

I say give them the benefit of the doubt until they give us reason to think otherwise. :dance:

[Cyberious]

"They believe in (and have demonstrated that belief in practice) the concept that it is better to grow the pie bigger than it is to try and steal a larger slice."

That quote leads me to believe Kaye is involved...which also make since why 68caliber got the "announcement privileges". It would not surprise me if Forest was involved as well.


That was my first thought when I saw they were out of Illinois was that TK was somehow involved. Why does TK, a white hat, and possibly Shatnerball ring a vague memory?

[ArmyEngineer]

That was my first thought when I saw they were out of Illinois was that TK was somehow involved. Why does TK, a white hat, and possibly Shatnerball ring a vague memory?

If the patents are freed up, what are the chances that the e-mag/x-mag will reenter production? TK is staying suspiciously quiet.

[the mag guy]

If the patents are freed up, what are the chances that the e-mag/x-mag will reenter production? TK is staying suspiciously quiet.

Oh man, I feel like a kid the night before xmas! I would love to see the e/xmag make a comeback! :shooting:

and if you're in on this Tom I'm flying up there and buying you a beer. :cheers:

[CatoRockwell]

Lets not get our hopes up too high yet folks. This is a big world and there are a lot of people in it. I too think it would be sick if TK reentered paintball manufacturing, but lets not get our hopes up too high lest they be dashed upon the rocks of reality.

[factoid]

Lets not get our hopes up too high yet folks. This is a big world and there are a lot of people in it. I too think it would be sick if TK reentered paintball manufacturing, but lets not get our hopes up too high lest they be dashed upon the rocks of reality.


It seems pretty unlikely. Even in bankruptcy Smart Parts was probably worth some serious cash and whoever buys them takes on whatever debt they have.

I don't think the White Hats LLC registered in Illinois is related. It was created several years ago and the press release says this new company was formed this year.

I'll be pleasantly surprised if TK is involved in this in some way, but I'm not betting on it.

[zondo]

It seems pretty unlikely. Even in bankruptcy Smart Parts was probably worth some serious cash and whoever buys them takes on whatever debt they have.


Really? I thought that they had to liquidate to try to cover their stakeholders. If someone buys the company that would be a different story, but I thought this was a liquidation of assets to cover their liabilities.

It's been a while since I had my business classes and worked on balance sheets.

[BigEvil]

Funny thing how these WhiteHat peeps are talking about 'ethics' and such. If I recall, there was a recent story on 'business and ethics' involving Forest Hatcher (PTP) over on the Catshack Report.

http://www.catshackreports.com/2010/08/business-or-ethics/


Just some food for thought ;)

[factoid]

Really? I thought that they had to liquidate to try to cover their stakeholders. If someone buys the company that would be a different story, but I thought this was a liquidation of assets to cover their liabilities.

It's been a while since I had my business classes and worked on balance sheets.

That would have been the case if WhiteHat hadn't come in. The company was put into receivership and a court-appointed receiver was most likely in the process of auditing their assets to prepare for a liquidation.

In the event of a liquidation the first people paid back are creditors. Then it trickles down to other stakeholders like unpaid workers and shareholders (which may or may not exist in the case of Smart Parts, it depends on how it's structured)

What happended in this case is that WhiteHats came in with a full buyout before the liquidation occurred.

So they've assumed all of Smart Parts' debt, which sounds like unpaid rent on their manufacturing facility, and probably bank notes, payroll, etc... in exchange for full ownership of the company including the patents, brands, inventory and presumably the employees (at least for now).

My personal opinion is that this group is probably affiliated with Smart Parts in some way. Maybe it's an offshoot of GI Milsim or a new company started by the Gardners.

[going_home]

Mmm.
Methinks Scott knows more than he's letting on lol.


:rolleyes:

[Ratt]

TK is staying suspiciously quiet.

Two days, and 51 posts, and nothing from TK... :ninja:

[AGD]

I am watching this along with the rest of you.

AGD

[Frizzle Fry]

I am watching this along with the rest of you.

AGD

It seems to be good news for everyone; hopefully it allows everyone in the industry a bit more freedom in bringing back old products and developing new ones, yourself included. This could mean a lot for AGD and Technicor alike. As interested as I am in knowing who's behind this, I also know that it takes a while to get a company off the ground, and even longer to get one back on its feet.

Any chance you could send me a PM?

[Ratt]

I am watching this along with the rest of you.

AGD

Do you have any opinions/speculations/comments?

[BigEvil]

Mmm.
Methinks Scott knows more than he's letting on lol.


:rolleyes:


Who me? I know nothing. Why would I? Im nobody. Im just pointing out something interesting.

[spantol]

Here's an interesting article naming names:

http://www.propaintball.com/2010/08/the-hype-thickens-whitehats-llc-enters-the-scene/

[breg]

Honestly, I just hope that what ever they do they don't wind up causing as much damage to paintball as SP did... and who knows... maybe the roll back issues will finally be fixed lol

[BigEvil]

Here's an interesting article naming names:

http://www.propaintball.com/2010/08/the-hype-thickens-whitehats-llc-enters-the-scene/


Hard to trust any of that when they got the part about TK and SP WRONG;


As many of you may recall, Smart Parts and Tom Kaye were involved in a lengthy legal dispute regarding the Electronic gun patent.

[SN toter]

I am watching this along with the rest of you.

AGD

So does that mean you are NOT involved?

That would make me a sad panda.

[Frizzle Fry]

Here's an interesting article naming names:

http://www.propaintball.com/2010/08/the-hype-thickens-whitehats-llc-enters-the-scene/

But the people they named as "major partners" are not involved...? A lot of their other facts are way off too. I'm sorry, but if possible they know even less about this that than the people who've posted in this thread. At least nobody here has made false claims, and most of us have a better understanding of AGD and SP history (separate).

Perhaps Tom could send the nice man at that site an email and explain why it's not nice to make things up?

[MedicDVG]

Here's an interesting article naming names:

http://www.propaintball.com/2010/08/the-hype-thickens-whitehats-llc-enters-the-scene/
Just more unfounded speculation. I do find it credible that the Davidsons have something to do with it, as I have also heard that Forest is possibly involved.

On MCB a member was purported to be in negotiations for the IP package and the physical plant for a total of around 800K. What that means for the debt servicing I don't know. If you read the original Chapter 11 petition there was SIGNIFICANT debt to the tune of multiple millions of dollars with the top creditor being the Chinese manufacturing company.

Perhaps someone who knows bankruptcy law better then I (most of you that is) can explain if the debt just vanishes in liquidation and the creditors take what they can get, or as in the alleged case of White Hats LLC they are attempting to purchase the entire entity as is.

It doesn't seem to be a good business move to purchase multimillions in debt at fire sale prices if their only desire is the selling off the IP and physical equipment to recoup the investment. Frankly I don't see the value either in obtaining the IP and then spending further millions to defend and enforce patent actions. I don't see the profitability of that type of business model.

Now if they are only getting the IP, and the physical assets without assuming the debt, then 800k is a bargain at twice the price and there is some profitability in that...

This is fascinating to watch and I can't wait for the next page of the discussion...

[spantol]

I said it was interesting, is all. Parts I'd like to be true, parts I know aren't.

It'd be nice to see AGD unencumbered by intellectual property concerns.

[skipdogg]

While I also beleive the 'article' on pro paintball is not accurate in many ways, I also beleive Tom knows quite a bit more about this and is choosing not to say anything yet. Does this mean he's actually a 'white hat'....probably not (although I bet donuts to dollars he's been contacted by 'them'), but he knows more than he's letting on for sure...

Anyway, other opinions I have are as follows:
You need a group of brains, connections/industry knowledge and $$$$. so far the only specific people mentioned are high on the brains and connections list and low on the dollar list (possible exception Valken, but I cant imagine they have much cash laying around). So, you still need at least one, probably two industry heavyweights in on this. My pics are KEE or DYE or both of them. Someone or several people in white hats need some serious cash to throw around. I dont see that yet, so until I do, the other people mentioned are not able to pull this off (no offense to any of them!).

[cockerpunk]

it seems pretty silly to speculate with how little information we have. there crap was gonna get bought, everything out ther is speculation.

[Frizzle Fry]

it seems pretty silly to speculate with how little information we have. there crap was gonna get bought, everything out ther is speculation.

Except the statements made by the company...?

[cockerpunk]

Except the statements made by the company...?

a company that so far has only insisted that they are interested and have some money, not that they have purchased anything acutally. k, add this company to the list of interested parties in that IP ...

[factoid]

Just more unfounded speculation. I do find it credible that the Davidsons have something to do with it, as I have also heard that Forest is possibly involved.

On MCB a member was purported to be in negotiations for the IP package and the physical plant for a total of around 800K. What that means for the debt servicing I don't know. If you read the original Chapter 11 petition there was SIGNIFICANT debt to the tune of multiple millions of dollars with the top creditor being the Chinese manufacturing company.

Perhaps someone who knows bankruptcy law better then I (most of you that is) can explain if the debt just vanishes in liquidation and the creditors take what they can get, or as in the alleged case of White Hats LLC they are attempting to purchase the entire entity as is.

It doesn't seem to be a good business move to purchase multimillions in debt at fire sale prices if their only desire is the selling off the IP and physical equipment to recoup the investment. Frankly I don't see the value either in obtaining the IP and then spending further millions to defend and enforce patent actions. I don't see the profitability of that type of business model.

Now if they are only getting the IP, and the physical assets without assuming the debt, then 800k is a bargain at twice the price and there is some profitability in that...

This is fascinating to watch and I can't wait for the next page of the discussion...

The debt most certainly does not vanish. The way a chapter 7 filing works is that your assets are sold in a liquidation auction. The court appoints a receiver (that's what it means to "be in receivership") who audits your holdings and sells assets to the highest bidder.

The proceeds of the auction go first to paying liquidation fees, then to creditors, then to unpaid workers, then to shareholders if there's anything left.

If someone comes in and just buys up Smart Parts at this point what they are doing is acquiring their debt from the bank and other creditors. Usually at a reduced rate or they enact some kind of mutually agreed on payment plan.

White Hats or anyone else for that matter could sit back and wait for the auction and get things cheaper, but if you really want that property the best way to do it is to buy the company whole before the auction.

If a company can acquire Smart Parts' assets for cheap and get a good deal on servicing the debt, it's entirely possible that Smart Parts has a good enough cash flow to then become profitable again. If the company is not profitable then you only agree to pay as much as the assets are worth. So you shut down the factory, sell the equipment, sell the remaining inventory and hold onto the IP to recycle the brand names in your own factories, license the patents out, etc...

[Frizzle Fry]

a company that so far has only insisted that they are interested and have some money, not that they have purchased anything acutally. k, add this company to the list of interested parties in that IP ...

I'm sorry, maybe you have some special Cockerpunk-Edition dictionary in which the word "acquire" is defined as "window shop"?

I guess I'd forgotten your oft-mentioned "credentials" (your words not mine) that consist of meeting and having your picture taken with Tom Kaye (that's not an endorsement, pal...) and "publishing" videos to Youtube along with thousands of injured car-surfers, wannabe rappers and drunk beerpong players. You'll have to excuse me for not bowing to the clearly superior knowledge of a student who as of a few years ago was just some kid begging for people to donate barrels for a cockamamie barrel "test" that didn't account for temperature or humidity. It's been made clear through recent posts here that you rarely look into the things that you comment so authoritatively on, nor do you have the necessary real world experience to fully understand the things that I'm sure you've just learned in class and are applying to paintball applications.

Here are some Merriam-Webster definitions that might be helpful to you in the future:

ac·quire transitive verb
1: to get as one's own: a : to come into possession or control of often by unspecified means b : to come to have as a new or added characteristic, trait, or ability

credentials noun
2(plural): testimonials or certified documents showing that a person is entitled to credit or has a right to exercise official power

ar·ro·gant adjective
1: exaggerating or disposed to exaggerate one's own worth or importance often by an overbearing manner

[BigEvil]

I'm sorry, maybe you have some special Cockerpunk-Edition dictionary in which the word "acquire" is defined as "window shop"?

I guess I'd forgotten your oft-mentioned "credentials" (your words not mine) that consist of meeting and having your picture taken with Tom Kaye (that's not an endorsement, pal...) and "publishing" videos to Youtube along with thousands of injured car-surfers, wannabe rappers and drunk beerpong players. You'll have to excuse me for not bowing to the clearly superior knowledge of a student who as of a few years ago was just some kid begging for people to donate barrels for a cockamamie barrel "test" that didn't account for temperature or humidity. It's been made clear through recent posts here that you rarely look into the things that you comment so authoritatively on, nor do you have the necessary real world experience to fully understand the things that I'm sure you've just learned in class and are applying to paintball applications.

Here are some Merriam-Webster definitions that might be helpful to you in the future:

ac·quire transitive verb
1: to get as one's own: a : to come into possession or control of often by unspecified means b : to come to have as a new or added characteristic, trait, or ability

credentials noun
2(plural): testimonials or certified documents showing that a person is entitled to credit or has a right to exercise official power

ar·ro·gant adjective
1: exaggerating or disposed to exaggerate one's own worth or importance often by an overbearing manner


:rofl:

[CatoRockwell]

:wow: the gloves are really coming off in here.


Let's play nice children.

[factoid]

I'm sorry, maybe you have some special Cockerpunk-Edition dictionary in which the word "acquire" is defined as "window shop"?

I guess I'd forgotten your oft-mentioned "credentials" (your words not mine) that consist of meeting and having your picture taken with Tom Kaye (that's not an endorsement, pal...) and "publishing" videos to Youtube along with thousands of injured car-surfers, wannabe rappers and drunk beerpong players. You'll have to excuse me for not bowing to the clearly superior knowledge of a student who as of a few years ago was just some kid begging for people to donate barrels for a cockamamie barrel "test" that didn't account for temperature or humidity. It's been made clear through recent posts here that you rarely look into the things that you comment so authoritatively on, nor do you have the necessary real world experience to fully understand the things that I'm sure you've just learned in class and are applying to paintball applications.

Here are some Merriam-Webster definitions that might be helpful to you in the future:

ac·quire transitive verb
1: to get as one's own: a : to come into possession or control of often by unspecified means b : to come to have as a new or added characteristic, trait, or ability

credentials noun
2(plural): testimonials or certified documents showing that a person is entitled to credit or has a right to exercise official power

ar·ro·gant adjective
1: exaggerating or disposed to exaggerate one's own worth or importance often by an overbearing manner

Nobody said they're window shopping, but they also haven't closed the deal yet. There is zero chance that this group is the only one interested in acquiring something like HALF of the paintball industry.

[Ratt]

Here's an interesting article naming names:

http://www.propaintball.com/2010/08/the-hype-thickens-whitehats-llc-enters-the-scene/

I clicked on the link, and this is what I get: "Error 404 - Nothing Found. The page you are looking for could not be found."...WTF?

[skipdogg]

I clicked on the link, and this is what I get: "Error 404 - Nothing Found. The page you are looking for could not be found."...WTF?


I think they realized the 'article' was so off base and they looked so foolish for posting it, that they pulled the article.

[KoolKat]

I think they realized the 'article' was so off base and they looked so foolish for posting it, that they pulled the article.


What you don't think their "Investigative reporting" was any good :rofl: Looked to me like they were just running with all the wild speculation all over the interwebs here and calling it fact.

[cockerpunk]

Nobody said they're window shopping, but they also haven't closed the deal yet. There is zero chance that this group is the only one interested in acquiring something like HALF of the paintball industry.

bingo.

maybe fizzle fry can't read the acutal article, but steve has clearly stated both in the article, and in many threads that the deal HAS NOT BEEN FINALIZED. WHITE HATS DOES NOT OWN ANYTHING SP YET. they merely have secured the credit to make an offer.

that means this thing is no differen then the 5 odd other attempts by banks, and other paintball companies to bring SP back. NO DIFFERENT other then someone is affilated with a media outlet, and thus can freak everyone out and build hype by saying they did it (which they didn;t even acutally say either)

also, frizzle, reported. pretty pethetic post.

[DeuceSV]

Bring El Tigre and Black Lotus back please, thanks new guys... we gotta hope for the best in what's happening, because all of these assets are going to go to someone. Just hope its someone not worth a pile of... :dance: :dance: :dance: dancing nanners.

And on a side note, I am just about as interested to see how far the flaming will go in this thread as I am new, legitimate answers... page 3 is awesome so far!

[going_home]

Well we finally know who the buyer is.

http://customcockers.com/forum/showthread.php?28023-Smart-Parts-is-baaaaaaack...&p=214912#post214912


http://customcockers.com/forum/showthread.php?28023-Smart-Parts-is-baaaaaaack...&p=214964#post214964


:rolleyes:

[Drix]

Fail- Read back 1 page.

Bulldog (BD) states:

"The thread on MCB is a real rumor mill as well. I guess no one read the part where it says "in negotiations to purchase". They haven't bought anything yet. At this point anyone could be "in negotiations" to purchase SP even me! "

Followed by:

Newraceowner:
"That's it!! I'm starting the rumor that BD is buying SP!!! everyone meet me over on PBN to fan the flames!! LOL"

Lets not be seletively reading anything- We're not a bunch of PBN idiots (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZMXXOLmTvQ).

[Frizzle Fry]

Fail- Read back 1 page.

Bulldog (BD) states:

"The thread on MCB is a real rumor mill as well. I guess no one read the part where it says "in negotiations to purchase". They haven't bought anything yet. At this point anyone could be "in negotiations" to purchase SP even me! "

Followed by:

Newraceowner:
"That's it!! I'm starting the rumor that BD is buying SP!!! everyone meet me over on PBN to fan the flames!! LOL"

Lets not be seletively reading anything- We're not a bunch of PBN idiots (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZMXXOLmTvQ).

That's why Going_Home put a ":rolleyes:"

[Ando]

Learn to sarcasm Drix ;)

[ProblemKinder]

I'm sorry, maybe you have some special Cockerpunk-Edition dictionary in which the word "acquire" is defined as "window shop"?

I guess I'd forgotten your oft-mentioned "credentials" (your words not mine) that consist of meeting and having your picture taken with Tom Kaye (that's not an endorsement, pal...) and "publishing" videos to Youtube along with thousands of injured car-surfers, wannabe rappers and drunk beerpong players. You'll have to excuse me for not bowing to the clearly superior knowledge of a student who as of a few years ago was just some kid begging for people to donate barrels for a cockamamie barrel "test" that didn't account for temperature or humidity. It's been made clear through recent posts here that you rarely look into the things that you comment so authoritatively on, nor do you have the necessary real world experience to fully understand the things that I'm sure you've just learned in class and are applying to paintball applications.

Here are some Merriam-Webster definitions that might be helpful to you in the future:

ac·quire transitive verb
1: to get as one's own: a : to come into possession or control of often by unspecified means b : to come to have as a new or added characteristic, trait, or ability

credentials noun
2(plural): testimonials or certified documents showing that a person is entitled to credit or has a right to exercise official power

ar·ro·gant adjective
1: exaggerating or disposed to exaggerate one's own worth or importance often by an overbearing manner



overreact much? ;)

[Frizzle Fry]

overreact much? ;)

My tolerance level for that pretentious loudmouth has been worn down to almost nothing over the last few years, and judging by the PMs I received last night (both volume and content) I'm not by any means the only one.

[cockerpunk]

My tolerance level for that pretentious loudmouth has been worn down to almost nothing over the last few years, and judging by the PMs I received last night (both volume and content) I'm not by any means the only one.

intersting, since every accusation against me about "not reading" and "not knowing enough to comment" and being "pretentious loudmouth" is exactly the situtation you find yourself in. you clearly did not read the article nor are invloved enough in the conversation to see what Steve has personally said.

ignornace is bliss right?

sometimes, being facturally correct is boring. not nearly as much fun as a "who dun it?"

and until we know that someone has bought the IP, it makes little difference to me. just add one more name to the list of poeple known to be interested. whomever white hats are, they still dont have the IP, and have covered there tracks well. though if you want to point the "pretentious" finger at anyone, i'd point it at the guys who call themselves paintball's "white hats" ... but thats just me.

[Frizzle Fry]

intersting, since every accusation against me about "not reading" and "not knowing enough to comment" and being "pretentious loudmouth" is exactly the situtation you find yourself in. you clearly did not read the article nor are invloved enough in the conversation to see what Steve has personally said.

ignornace is bliss right?

sometimes, being facturally correct is boring. not nearly as much fun as a "who dun it?"

and until we know that someone has bought the IP, it makes little difference to me. just add one more name to the list of poeple known to be interested. whomever white hats are, they still dont have the IP, and have covered there tracks well. though if you want to point the "pretentious" finger at anyone, i'd point it at the guys who call themselves paintball's "white hats" ... but thats just me.

If you look at the time stamps and the edited article (i.e. the one from the 20th that stated "IP acquired" on which this thread was based, and the edited one from the 22nd that corrected the first one) you might understand where I was coming from, but you were a little late to the party... I've read all of the articles, including the two that were locked/delted after it was found that they weren't accurate.

I'm not pretentious, I just have very little tolerance for children who don't learn their lesson or use logic and reason when opportunities to do so are presented time and time again. Hostile little know-it-alls who think that the degree they haven't actually earned yet counts for something and insist on self promotion and degradation at every turn tend to piss me off. Frankly I have no idea why the few people and forums who put up with your BS continue to put up with your BS.

[cockerpunk]

If you look at the time stamps and the edited article (i.e. the one from the 20th that stated "IP acquired" on which this thread was based, and the edited one from the 22nd that corrected the first one) you might understand where I was coming from, but you were a little late to the party... I've read all of the articles, including the two that were locked/delted after it was found that they weren't accurate.

I'm not pretentious, I just have very little tolerance for children who don't learn their lesson or use logic and reason when opportunities to do so are presented time and time again. Hostile little know-it-alls who think that the degree they haven't actually earned yet counts for something and insist on self promotion and degradation at every turn tend to piss me off. Frankly I have no idea why the few people and forums who put up with your BS continue to put up with your BS.

so you missed the part where white hats had clearly NOT aquired SP or the SP's IP and thus my post of


a company that so far has only insisted that they are interested and have some money, not that they have purchased anything acutally. k, add this company to the list of interested parties in that IP ...

is still 100% accurate?

sounds pretty logical and reasonable to me ... we know someone else wants the IP ... cool. who, what there intentions are, and if they actually will get the IP is totally speculation, as TK even pointed out!



as to the second paragraph, no idea where that is comming from. havn't brought up my college degree (which i have earned, and its not in law so it doesn't help me in this thread), haven't said i knew anything more than anyone else (in fact, pointed out the opposite), have not insulted or flammed anyone, nor mocked them in any sort of way.

i have no idea what your pissed about.

[MedicDVG]

Isn't this annoucment premature in the first place seeing as the Courts have NOT accepted the pending petition to change the filing from Chap 11 to Chap 7? Or would this sale then make that petition null and void?

I think whoever the "White Hats" could be used the situation to try and inflate thier position making it harder for another 'deep pocket' entity to enter the fray. It has been said in other forums that there are several principals in negotiation for the same asset package that WH LLC is alleged to have 'exclusive rights'.

Again.. I am fascinated by the discussion on this and other forums. MCB has closed the thread on the subject because it has turned in to wild speculation, acusation and flames, as I assume this thread will be soon to.

I for one am going to pop a cold one, sit back and watch the show. :D

[cockerpunk]

Isn't this annoucment premature in the first place seeing as the Courts have NOT accepted the pending petition to change the filing from Chap 11 to Chap 7? Or would this sale then make that petition null and void?

I think whoever the "White Hats" could be used the situation to try and inflate thier position making it harder for another 'deep pocket' entity to enter the fray. It has been said in other forums that there are several principals in negotiation for the same asset package that WH LLC is alleged to have 'exclusive rights'.

Again.. I am fascinated by the discussion on this and other forums. MCB has closed the thread on the subject because it has turned in to wild speculation, acusation and flames, as I assume this thread will be soon to.

I for one am going to pop a cold one, sit back and watch the show. :D

this thread already got to that point.

im down for a cold one, but i got called a luandry list of names for no reason, was compelled to defend myself. the sad thing, the very post where i said this is all speculation and that we don't actuually know anything, is the ones that was attacked.

idk, im still confused about it. when in doubt though, find a bar. thats what i suggest to everyone right now.

[going_home]

so you missed the part where white hats had clearly NOT aquired SP or the SP's IP and thus my post of
is still 100% accurate?
sounds pretty logical and reasonable to me ... we know someone else wants the IP ... cool. who, what there intentions are, and if they actually will get the IP is totally speculation, as TK even pointed out!
as to the second paragraph, no idea where that is comming from. havn't brought up my college degree (which i have earned, and its not in law so it doesn't help me in this thread), haven't said i knew anything more than anyone else (in fact, pointed out the opposite), have not insulted or flammed anyone, nor mocked them in any sort of way.
i have no idea what your pissed about.

Kindly post a link for the TK quote please, I dont see it in this thread.

:ninja:

[cockerpunk]

Kindly post a link for the TK quote please, I dont see it in this thread.

:ninja:


I am watching this along with the rest of you.

AGD

its all speculation. we are all waiting for more information. grasping for straws much?

get your panties out of a bunch and calm the **** down.

[going_home]

its all speculation. we are all waiting for more information. grasping for straws much?

get your panties out of a bunch and calm the **** down.


I think maybe the rub to some in here is your total lack of respect for anything or anybody.
And that you seem to come off as all full of yourself and arrogant.
Your choice I guess, this is still America sort of.

I agree its all just speculation right now, some are having more fun with it than others, but I cant see your statement of what TK said, in his actual post.

Is it just me ?

:ninja:

[cockerpunk]

I think maybe the rub to some in here is your total lack of respect for anything or anybody.
And that you seem to come off as all full of yourself and arrogant.
Your choice I guess, this is still America sort of.

I agree its all just speculation right now, some are having more fun with it than others, but I cant see your statement of what TK said, in his actual post.

Is it just me ?

:ninja:

i have no idea how you can know my level of respect for members here and if i am posting arrogantly or not. its text. any mood you assign to me, you can read my text in that method and then everything i ever say will be whatever mood you want me to say it in.

try reading that paragraph and assigning me a pissed off mood. now, try reading in in a condisending mood. now try reading it as just text.

had this problem on MCB a while back. poeple stopped assuming i was a dick, and wow, now its not a problem. poeple expected me to be some young buck snarky kid and thus read every post like that, and wow, i became a snarky kid in there minds!

its text communication.

if TK knew something more then is posted, he would have posted it, or if he had further analysis or insight, he probably would have posted it. since he doesn't know, i don't know, no one really knows ... its all speculation.

one of those logical trains of thought and deductive reasoning that evidently do not have the opprotunity or skills to use ;)

:cool:

[Ando]

Good job guys.

E-Penis FTW!!!

[spantol]

poeple expected me to be some young buck snarky kid and thus read every post like that, and wow, i became a snarky kid in there minds!


The use of proper spelling and grammar can go a long way in helping to avoid this sort of stigma.

I've never had any issue with you, I know next to nothing about you, but since you can't be bothered to capitalize, spell check, or use apostrophes, you come off sounding--in a text medium--like a snarky teenager.

[wimag]

careful. wouldnt want you going off the deep end and getting thrown out of here like on PBN.

[Drix]

http://www.funnyforumpics.com/forums/flame-insults/1/Belittle-Flame_Thrower.jpg

[factoid]

Your choice I guess, this is still America sort of.

Must every thread have politics inserted into it?

I predict Godwin by page 5.

[DeuceSV]

Remember, once there's tension in the air, all you have to do is throw a chair into the air and all hell will break loose.

[AGD]

I never said I had no idea what was going on. Just that I am watching this develop.

TK

[zondo]

I never said I had no idea what was going on. Just that I am watching this develop.

TK

Thankfully, I think the initial craziness is over...

Now, we wait...

:argh:

[Ratt]

I hate waiting. :(

["t-mac"]

its all speculation. we are all waiting for more information. grasping for straws much?

get your panties out of a bunch and calm the **** down.

Yea I'm not jumping on the hate wagon, but if you want people to imagine the tone of voice you are typing in, you probably don't want to make statements like the above. That kind of talk leaves little room for misinterpretation.

Maybe you don't think you are coming off as snobbish, but your posts sure do make it look otherwise. You've been around so its not like you don't know that you have to be careful how things are worded in order to make statements seem a certain way... :tard:

[OPBN]

Event horizon??

[Ratt]

E.L.E. ??

[Frizzle Fry]

Yea I'm not jumping on the hate wagon, but if you want people to imagine the tone of voice you are typing in, you probably don't want to make statements like the above. That kind of talk leaves little room for misinterpretation.

Videos aren't typed... :rolleyes:

Plain Text (http://freetexthost.com/eqikpykcy0)

Video Response (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk7gFIkH1mc)

[Rudz]

I never said I had no idea what was going on. Just that I am watching this develop.

TK

Spill it, or Beemer gets it.....





Lololololol

[Magmoormaster]

I still love you CP. :nohomo:

[cockerpunk]

you guys are looking at the wrong guy if you want to clean the forums up.

you really think this post -


it seems pretty silly to speculate with how little information we have. there crap was gonna get bought, everything out ther is speculation.

deserved this response? -


I'm sorry, maybe you have some special Cockerpunk-Edition dictionary in which the word "acquire" is defined as "window shop"?

I guess I'd forgotten your oft-mentioned "credentials" (your words not mine) that consist of meeting and having your picture taken with Tom Kaye (that's not an endorsement, pal...) and "publishing" videos to Youtube along with thousands of injured car-surfers, wannabe rappers and drunk beerpong players. You'll have to excuse me for not bowing to the clearly superior knowledge of a student who as of a few years ago was just some kid begging for people to donate barrels for a cockamamie barrel "test" that didn't account for temperature or humidity. It's been made clear through recent posts here that you rarely look into the things that you comment so authoritatively on, nor do you have the necessary real world experience to fully understand the things that I'm sure you've just learned in class and are applying to paintball applications.

Here are some Merriam-Webster definitions that might be helpful to you in the future:

ac·quire transitive verb
1: to get as one's own: a : to come into possession or control of often by unspecified means b : to come to have as a new or added characteristic, trait, or ability

credentials noun
2(plural): testimonials or certified documents showing that a person is entitled to credit or has a right to exercise official power

ar·ro·gant adjective
1: exaggerating or disposed to exaggerate one's own worth or importance often by an overbearing manner

cuase i don't think a 2 sentence post dealing with how little knowledge we acutally have attempting to calm down the dicussion warrented a post with i count over a DOZEN personal attacks, NONE of which acutally deal with the subject at hand? he merely assumed the thread title was accurate (which its not), and then flammed me for now going on 2 pages. also notice, i have not flamed him back once.

really AO? really? your going to condemn me?

this is absurd. the only one who ruined this thread was fizzle fry.

[skipdogg]

I never said I had no idea what was going on. Just that I am watching this develop.

TK



Ahhh, finally he admits knowing something :ninja:

So.... let's hear what it is.

[cockerpunk]

Ahhh, finally he admits knowing something :ninja:

So.... let's hear what it is.

me too!

there were lots of rumors that your involved TK ... i pretty much poo-pooed them after our little "never get into the paintball industry" talk, but now im not so sure ...

[Frizzle Fry]

cuase i don't think a 2 sentence post dealing with how little knowledge we acutally have attempting to calm down the dicussion warrented a post with i count over a DOZEN personal attacks, NONE of which acutally deal with the subject at hand? he merely assumed the thread title was accurate (which its not), and then flammed me for now going on 2 pages. also notice, i have not flamed him back once.

really AO? really? your going to condemn me?

this is absurd. the only one who ruined this thread was fizzle fry.

Again, the title and the initial link (8/20) led to a page that state the IP was acquired. Two days later (8/22), the page was edited/replaced and a new article was posted that explained the initial misunderstanding and had more info, including the fact that 68caliber.com will be the official outlet for news related to White Hats LLC. The initial statement, coupled with the statements on the White Hats site "The company has acquired the assets of several technically innovative companies within the paintball industry..." told a different story than the later, edited statements.

Regardless, have only your posts, your videos, and your actions on which to judge you. When people are regularly approached and presented with haughtiness, conceitedness and arrogance, they will tend to view everything you say through a different lens than if they knew nothing about you. With a predisposition, or sensitization, people will be more likely to pick apart your statements and read more into them. When you have a documented track record of insulting and demeaning people for their thoughts and speculations, this tends to happen more often. On some sites, a moderator status might shield you from criticism, while on others you might be offered an opportunity to calm down, ignore it, and then be banned entirely for your inability to present information without constant showmanship and abrasiveness...

In the long run it would behoove you to think a little more before you speak (or type), and not assume that everyone else at the party is your inferior; be it intellectually or informedly. Clearly I'm not the only one who feels that way, or my PM box wouldn't be full of messages from people (some from other forums) who agree and are glad someone finally came out and said it.

[spantol]

Because I don't think a 2(*) sentence post dealing with how little knowledge we actually have attempting to calm down the discussion warranted a post with I count over a DOZEN personal attacks, NONE of which actually deal with the subject at hand. He merely assumed the thread title was accurate (which it's not), and then flamed me for now going on 2(*) pages. Also notice, I have not flamed him back once.

Really AO? Really? You're going to condemn me?

This is absurd. The only one who ruined this thread was Fizzle Fry.


Fixed that as best I could for you. Style guides typically recommend spelling out ten and below, but I can let that one go as personal preference.

Again, it's all in how you present yourself.

[AO Moderation Team]

If not this will apply.


Threads and posts can and will be removed where necessary without notice or warning. You also can and will be banned without notice or warning if it is necessary. We try hard to avoid this action but if we have to we will. Your thread or post will most likely just be removed.

So don't wonder why you can't log in for a week.

[skipdogg]

If not this will apply.



So don't wonder why you can't log in for a week.




Thanks for putting an end to all that sillyness :)

[CatoRockwell]

If not this will apply.



So don't wonder why you can't log in for a week.

My theory about WhiteHats LLC identity is rather elaborate but it involves Cancer Man from X-Files and a mass scale government conspiracy to hyjack the paintball industry and perpetuate yet another government coverup of extraterrestrial life.

Also, this plan involves either cloning TK or making an identical android and then replacing him. This new TK will then use AO and TK's accrued status to then turn paintballers into Men in Black who will shut down any legitimate UFO research.

Discuss... :D

[BigEvil]

My theory about WhiteHats LLC identity is rather elaborate but it involves Cancer Man from X-Files and a mass scale government conspiracy to hyjack the paintball industry and perpetuate yet another government coverup of extraterrestrial life.

Also, this plan involves either cloning TK or making an identical android and then replacing him. This new TK will then use AO and TK's accrued status to then turn paintballers into Men in Black who will shut down any legitimate UFO research.

Discuss...


This actually makes more sense than anything else at this point :D I still say Beemer is the mastermind behind all of this. :D

[elgalloblanco]

My theory about WhiteHats LLC identity is rather elaborate but it involves Cancer Man from X-Files and a mass scale government conspiracy to hyjack the paintball industry and perpetuate yet another government coverup of extraterrestrial life.

Also, this plan involves either cloning TK or making an identical android and then replacing him. This new TK will then use AO and TK's accrued status to then turn paintballers into Men in Black who will shut down any legitimate UFO research.

Discuss... :D

could be... or White Lion and Men Without Hats got tired of one-hit wonder-dom? :confused:

[rabidchihauhau]

Clarification. But first - for those who do not know from long standing tradition, "Rabidchihauhau" (deliberately spelled wrong) is Steve Davidson. Used to be I didn't have to make that statement, but these days it's a whole new crowd.

As you can all imagine, I've been quite busy. That being said, this is not a tease, but a clarification of some things that folks seem to have been getting wrong.

There are allusions to (if not outright claims) that the substantive content of the White Hat LLC press releases on 68Caliber "changed" from release one to release two.

This is not the case. What actually happened is two things: first, another website/blog posted and then removed some erroneous information. However, before the removal, the content was posted to PBNation. The problem is that the other website's (incorrect) information appeared under the heading of "originally posted on 68Caliber". That post on PBNation has since been removed at the request of 68Caliber. Unfortunately, it was up on the site long enough to create the impression that White Hats LLC had said one thing and then later changed it to something different. (PBN is not the bad guy here.)

The second thing is: Many people read the original WH press release so quickly (and no doubt with a fair amount of emotion) that they misread or came to conclusions about things that weren't stated in the press release.

Here is the initial paragraph of the first press release from WH:

White Hats LLC, a limited liability company formed in 2010 through the acquisition of the assets and intellectual property holdings of several existing paintball companies has entered into an exclusive arrangement with secured creditors to purchase all of the assets of Smart Parts Inc., including intellectual property, machinery, finished goods and etc.

and here is the relevant paragraph of the second press release from WH:

White Hats LLC is in the middle of the acquisition process. They have secured an exclusive position with the creditors and are working towards finalization – but nothing has been concluded yet.

The second press release then goes on to say the following:

The statement “White Hats LLC has purchased Smart Parts” is an incorrect characterization of the situation. A better way to state things would be “White Hats LLC has an agreement in principal to acquire the Smart Parts assets.”

The bold quoted sentence was not a quote from a WH press release, but is, instead, a statement made by many who have posted in various forums on the subject. So many people were in fact making that statement that WH felt it necessary to put out the second press release.

At no time and at no place on the web has White Hats LLC said anything other than the facts of the situation: they have an exclusive arrangement with creditors.

Please feel free to speculate and to offer your commentary (don't need my permission for that), but please remember that a single outlet for official information has been designated in the (forlorn) hope that folks can double check in one place and at least be talking from the same page (for a couple of sentences anyway).

As always - WH thanks you all for your patience and will release additional information when it is appropriate to do so.

[zondo]

Please feel free to speculate and to offer your commentary (don't need my permission for that)...

Other than press releases and AGD's comments, that's all anyone's been doing in this thread.

[druid]

Clarification. But first - for those who do not know from long standing tradition, "Rabidchihauhau" (deliberately spelled wrong) is Steve Davidson. Used to be I didn't have to make that statement, but these days it's a whole new crowd.

As you can all imagine, I've been quite busy. That being said, this is not a tease, but a clarification of some things that folks seem to have been getting wrong.

There are allusions to (if not outright claims) that the substantive content of the White Hat LLC press releases on 68Caliber "changed" from release one to release two.

This is not the case. What actually happened is two things: first, another website/blog posted and then removed some erroneous information. However, before the removal, the content was posted to PBNation. The problem is that the other website's (incorrect) information appeared under the heading of "originally posted on 68Caliber". That post on PBNation has since been removed at the request of 68Caliber. Unfortunately, it was up on the site long enough to create the impression that White Hats LLC had said one thing and then later changed it to something different. (PBN is not the bad guy here.)

The second thing is: Many people read the original WH press release so quickly (and no doubt with a fair amount of emotion) that they misread or came to conclusions about things that weren't stated in the press release.

Here is the initial paragraph of the first press release from WH:

White Hats LLC, a limited liability company formed in 2010 through the acquisition of the assets and intellectual property holdings of several existing paintball companies has entered into an exclusive arrangement with secured creditors to purchase all of the assets of Smart Parts Inc., including intellectual property, machinery, finished goods and etc.

and here is the relevant paragraph of the second press release from WH:

White Hats LLC is in the middle of the acquisition process. They have secured an exclusive position with the creditors and are working towards finalization – but nothing has been concluded yet.

The second press release then goes on to say the following:

The statement “White Hats LLC has purchased Smart Parts” is an incorrect characterization of the situation. A better way to state things would be “White Hats LLC has an agreement in principal to acquire the Smart Parts assets.”

The bold quoted sentence was not a quote from a WH press release, but is, instead, a statement made by many who have posted in various forums on the subject. So many people were in fact making that statement that WH felt it necessary to put out the second press release.

At no time and at no place on the web has White Hats LLC said anything other than the facts of the situation: they have an exclusive arrangement with creditors.

Please feel free to speculate and to offer your commentary (don't need my permission for that), but please remember that a single outlet for official information has been designated in the (forlorn) hope that folks can double check in one place and at least be talking from the same page (for a couple of sentences anyway).

As always - WH thanks you all for your patience and will release additional information when it is appropriate to do so.

Red bold = that's ALL that's been said. So..who IS white hats? Why do you all hide behind 68 cal? I know that you [guys] posted "it takes time to.......[blather on about a whole lot of nothing]"

meaning....you have to get with each other and get your stories straight before telling us what SHOULD have been in the original article.

What harm is there in telling us who you [all] are? If such an "agreement" is so solidly in place, there's no reason to suspect anyone "undercutting" your agreement now is there?

[Ratt]

What harm is there in telling us who you [all] are? If such an "agreement" is so solidly in place, there's no reason to suspect anyone "undercutting" your agreement now is there?

I agree...what harm can be done by letting everyone know who ya'll are?

[Hobbez]

Agreed. While I understand using the concept of holding back your identities and releasing information very slowly to increase hype and speculation for a crapton of free advertising, in this case, IMO of course, its a very very, bad idea. Smarts Parts has bit enough folks in the a$$ over the years with shady, backroom deals, that you folks might just drive a lot of potential customers away with all this secretive business.

I realise I'm not a big-wig in the paintball business and I don't know everything thats going on with this deal, but whats the harm in just decalring who you guys are? Keeping everything so hush hush is making everything wonder if your using bleach on your hats...

[BigEvil]

Maybe they arent coming forward because the deal is NOT done yet, and maybe there was a good reason why they wanted to let the pb world know that something is up.

[skipdogg]

I think more info. is being released today :ninja:

[rabidchihauhau]

In situations like this, explanations usually lead to more complaints - but I'm going to try and hope for the best.

The initial press release was not a planned, timed release. It was made because it became evident that the information was going to be released via third parties. A great deal of discussion ensued and ultimately it was decided by WH that they needed to be the ones to make the first announcement.

For good business reasons, WH was conducting its activities quietly and without public fanfare. WH is trying to continue to operate in that fashion as much as possible.

[factoid]

Clarification. But first - for those who do not know from long standing tradition, "Rabidchihauhau" (deliberately spelled wrong) is Steve Davidson. Used to be I didn't have to make that statement, but these days it's a whole new crowd.

As you can all imagine, I've been quite busy. That being said, this is not a tease, but a clarification of some things that folks seem to have been getting wrong.

There are allusions to (if not outright claims) that the substantive content of the White Hat LLC press releases on 68Caliber "changed" from release one to release two.

This is not the case. What actually happened is two things: first, another website/blog posted and then removed some erroneous information. However, before the removal, the content was posted to PBNation. The problem is that the other website's (incorrect) information appeared under the heading of "originally posted on 68Caliber". That post on PBNation has since been removed at the request of 68Caliber. Unfortunately, it was up on the site long enough to create the impression that White Hats LLC had said one thing and then later changed it to something different. (PBN is not the bad guy here.)

The second thing is: Many people read the original WH press release so quickly (and no doubt with a fair amount of emotion) that they misread or came to conclusions about things that weren't stated in the press release.

Here is the initial paragraph of the first press release from WH:

White Hats LLC, a limited liability company formed in 2010 through the acquisition of the assets and intellectual property holdings of several existing paintball companies has entered into an exclusive arrangement with secured creditors to purchase all of the assets of Smart Parts Inc., including intellectual property, machinery, finished goods and etc.

and here is the relevant paragraph of the second press release from WH:

White Hats LLC is in the middle of the acquisition process. They have secured an exclusive position with the creditors and are working towards finalization – but nothing has been concluded yet.

The second press release then goes on to say the following:

The statement “White Hats LLC has purchased Smart Parts” is an incorrect characterization of the situation. A better way to state things would be “White Hats LLC has an agreement in principal to acquire the Smart Parts assets.”

The bold quoted sentence was not a quote from a WH press release, but is, instead, a statement made by many who have posted in various forums on the subject. So many people were in fact making that statement that WH felt it necessary to put out the second press release.

At no time and at no place on the web has White Hats LLC said anything other than the facts of the situation: they have an exclusive arrangement with creditors.

Please feel free to speculate and to offer your commentary (don't need my permission for that), but please remember that a single outlet for official information has been designated in the (forlorn) hope that folks can double check in one place and at least be talking from the same page (for a couple of sentences anyway).

As always - WH thanks you all for your patience and will release additional information when it is appropriate to do so.

Steve, thank you for coming in and clarifying.

I admit I misread the statement initially but your follow up press release clarified it. I will say however that there are two ways to read the sentence from the first press release.

The whole sentence hinges on the word "with" and how you place emphasis on it.

My initial reading was that you entered into an exclusive arrangement ALONG WITH secured creditors. As if your arrangement was with Smart Parts or the bank/trustee.

The correct reading is obviously that your arrangement was with the CREDITORS and that arrangement was a means to the end of acquiring the smart parts IP.

The second press release still confuses me though. When you say you have an agreement in principle, to me that means you've put a deal on the table and smart parts and/or their receivership trustee has accepted but you're working out the details. The reason I read it that way is that in your first press release you say you've already engaged with creditors, as though that was a done deal.

I think press releases are generally a terrible means of communicating information personally. I much prefer good plain-language reporting.

Again, thank you for coming in and trying to clear up the misconceptions. It's very much appreciated. Having an invested community that hangs on your every word, even if they mis-read them, is a pretty good problem to have :) We speculate because we care and we're dying to see what happens next.

[factoid]

Red bold = that's ALL that's been said. So..who IS white hats? Why do you all hide behind 68 cal? I know that you [guys] posted "it takes time to.......[blather on about a whole lot of nothing]"

meaning....you have to get with each other and get your stories straight before telling us what SHOULD have been in the original article.

What harm is there in telling us who you [all] are? If such an "agreement" is so solidly in place, there's no reason to suspect anyone "undercutting" your agreement now is there?


Even without any insider information I'd bet that just because they have an exclusive arrangement with creditors doesn't mean nobody can come in and bid against them.

All that exclusive arrangement likely means is that the creditors they secured cannot also lend money to a competing firm bidding for the same assets. Those competing firms are free to secure funding from other creditors or use their own money should they have enough.

[CatoRockwell]

Conspiracy! rabidchihauhau, admit it. WhiteHats is using paintball to make the perfect player. An Alien-Human Hybrid. :D

[NoForts4Me]

Maybe they arent coming forward because the deal is NOT done yetI think you hit the nail on the head. Things can fall apart rapidly for many reasons, so there's no reason to put information forward until the deal is completed. Also, what rabid said makes sense with regards to the information being released without their control, so WH made a preemptive press release.

About the only assumption I'm drawing is that the company will at least be partially focused on IP enforcement. You don't pay money for IP's (or patents) you either don't intend to use to make products, or license out (and enforce) to make money. Don't expect when this is a done deal for WH to just release the patents and tell everyone to carry on as they were. Hopefully, they'll be easier to deal with than it appears SP was (having NO business dealings with SP, I only know what I read on teh internets), but you have to be profitable as a company, and the patents are an asset.

[cockerpunk]

Conspiracy! rabidchihauhau, admit it. WhiteHats is using paintball to make the perfect player. An Alien-Human Hybrid. :D

a zerg-protoss hybrid?

oh noes!!111!!!

[leloup]

a zerg-protoss hybrid?

oh noes!!111!!!

Boooo! Blizzard stole the material and ideas from Games Workshop to make star craft. That's somehihng smartparts would do.

But seriously, if the company named themelves White Hats for the iconic image of the good guy, they got to be thinking a little high and mighty. TK, I think I speak for everyone here, What are your thoughts, opinions, and insider knowledge on the topic? You are speaking almost as criptic as White Hats.

[ArmyEngineer]

TK still hasn't answered the big question of the level of his involvement. He seems like a pretty direct person, so he probably would have denied being a part of this thing if that was in fact the case. He has taken care to avoid the subject so far, and probably for good reason. I'm sure he will reveal his position when the time is right.

The correction of the conclusion that he does not have any knowledge of the situation seems to be another good indication that he has something in the works. For now, I will just keep my fingers crossed. :cheers:

[Beemer]

He has taken care to avoid the subject so far, and probably for good reason.

Ya good reason, he could tell you but then you know he would have to.........

If you talk at a movie with him he will keel you. ;)

[Ando]

Here we go, Beemer just opened the door to the "most interesting man in the world" and Chuck Norris quotes for TK. :rofl:

[ArmyEngineer]

Ya good reason, he could tell you but then you know he would have to.........

If you talk at a movie with him he will keel you. ;)

That would suck.

If you ever wondered what TK looked like before the beard turned white, this:
http://files.sharenator.com/chuck_100_Chuck_Norris_Facts-s390x300-11888.jpg

P.S. I just finished building my tinfoil hat so he can't read my mind.


Here we go, Beemer just opened the door to the "most interesting man in the world" and Chuck Norris quotes for TK. :rofl:

The funny thing is I posted this before I saw your post, Ando.

[druid]

Maybe they arent coming forward because the deal is NOT done yet, and maybe there was a good reason why they wanted to let the pb world know that something is up.

I would normally agree that if they were being quiet about it, they are doing so - so as NOT to have someone undercut/undermine the purchase [which could STILL happen by the way]

...but they should have REMAINED 100% quiet about it until the deal was DONE.

imagine all the generated interest and advertising of [AN EXAMPLE ONLY]

"Tom Kaye, Gino P and 3, 4, 5 and 6 persons bought SP interests and holdings for a sum of ____ and with the intent to _____ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>................blah blah"

...AFTER the fact. There would be a world in shock AND excitement in the fact that people would KNOW it WASN'T Laurel and Hardie...I mean...the Gardeners........running the place...


This 'slowly bleed the arm" tactic stinks of what Virtue did many years ago. FALSE puffing of a company that bites them in the butt.......

I would have rathered not knowing until it was already done...but I would also have a "fresh" outlook on them...not like now, thinking they are hiding something...

Most people today are pessimistic by nature...me being the ring leader...

[Beemer]

...but they should have REMAINED 100% quiet about it until the deal was DONE.

I would have rathered not knowing until it was already done...but I would also have a "fresh" outlook on them...not like now, thinking they are hiding something...

Most people today are pessimistic by nature...me being the ring leader...

Well did you read what was said? A third party was going to blow it, so you would have known either way. I wont comment on how that could have happened. If its not public knowledge means hiding something to you, thats your problem.

I am optimistic by nature.

Quote with bolded parts by me.


The initial press release was not a planned, timed release. It was made because it became evident that the information was going to be released via third parties. A great deal of discussion ensued and ultimately it was decided by WH that they needed to be the ones to make the first announcement.

For good business reasons, WH was conducting its activities quietly and without public fanfare. WH is trying to continue to operate in that fashion as much as possible.

[zondo]

Here we go, Beemer just opened the door to the "most interesting man in the world" and Chuck Norris quotes for TK. :rofl:
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=211689

:ninja:

[druid]

Well did you read what was said?
A third party was going to blow it, so you would have known either way. I wont comment on how that could have happened. If its not public knowledge means hiding something to you, thats your problem.

I am optimistic by nature.

Quote with bolded parts by me.

Yes I did and regardless of what that content was, there's no proof anywhere other than what WH is and [especially] isn't saying. There's no public record of Wh AT ALL. Who are they? The flipping CIA? BlackWater?

I forgot Beemer...this is the Internet and everything on it is 100% trustworthy... :rolleyes:

"my sources tell me......but don't ask anymore becuase I can't tell either".....

what a load of hooey...

[kruger]

You know, I really havent been paying attention to any of this. I figured that when there was something solid, I would hear about it. I just read this whole thread, and I have come to realize that there is not one solid fact in the whole thread. Four pages, not one fact of any consequence. I think that I will catch up when this thread hits 8 pages. Or, a new thread pops up. And, yes, I think that I do know what is a stake here. But, that is all I think I know.

[doc_Zox]

http://premium1.uploadit.org/docZox//disregard-POSTERS-acquire-patents.jpg

[Hobbez]

When TK steps in a mud puddle, he doesnt get wet, the mud puddle gets TK'd

[Mayvik]

Yeah, because the paintball industry isn't about hype at all...

*cough* .50 cal *cough*

[druid]

Yeah, because the paintball industry isn't about hype at all...

*cough* .50 cal *cough*

LOL........it sucked 15 years ago but it MUST be better now :rolleyes:

[ProblemKinder]

If not this will apply.



So don't wonder why you can't log in for a week.

dang, this incredibly confused and un-informative thread was JUST starting to get interesting =]

[CatoRockwell]

dang, this incredibly confused and un-informative thread was JUST starting to get interesting =]

I know I was just reading cockerpunk and Frizzle Fry back n forth until I saw that message.

[Skeeter]

...
On MCB a member was purported to be in negotiations for the IP package and the physical plant for a total of around 800K. What that means for the debt servicing I don't know. If you read the original Chapter 11 petition there was SIGNIFICANT debt to the tune of multiple millions of dollars with the top creditor being the Chinese manufacturing company.

Perhaps someone who knows bankruptcy law better then I (most of you that is) can explain if the debt just vanishes in liquidation and the creditors take what they can get, or as in the alleged case of White Hats LLC they are attempting to purchase the entire entity as is.

It doesn't seem to be a good business move to purchase multimillions in debt at fire sale prices if their only desire is the selling off the IP and physical equipment to recoup the investment. Frankly I don't see the value either in obtaining the IP and then spending further millions to defend and enforce patent actions. I don't see the profitability of that type of business model.

Now if they are only getting the IP, and the physical assets without assuming the debt, then 800k is a bargain at twice the price and there is some profitability in that...

This is fascinating to watch and I can't wait for the next page of the discussion...


For a little info on the debt, and creditors: http://pbjunkie.com/uploads/gfgjester/PBJ-work/sp-bankruptcy.pdf


This may have been posted in another thread already, but I have not seen it... Enjoy crunching the numbers... :rolleyes:

[Drix]

Theres one Debt I especially love:

George Davison
595 Alpha Drive
Pittsburgh, PA 15238

$530,381.00

Now under normal circumstances I'd say "Oh, OK" But then I looked at this website (http://www.inventionland.com/) and gave a lol. I could have sworn that smartparts based their reputation (at least in some part) by making quality products for players by players (because they were players too).

Now, I don't want to incite violence, but I vaguely rember a quote like that off the back of my Q-lock feedneck package, which may be the only quality product they've built in the last 8-10 years. I find it humorus they owe half a million dollars to a company that doesn't play paintball to design their stuff.

[AGD]

Davidsons website was so off the chart I looked around and found this.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2006/1127/070.html

Needless to say its not looking good for him.

AGD

[KillerOfGiants]

Boooo! Blizzard stole the material and ideas from Games Workshop to make star craft. That's somehihng smartparts would do.

Yeah, but Blizzard isn't trying to take GW to court for taking their idea. I love both story/universes but that's completely off topic.

[Drix]

I may have been a bit off in suggesting smartparts was not folling their mantra after reading this (http://www.davisoninternational.com/clients/smart_parts.html). I still feel that my overall thought process is correct. I also have to wonder, why would you create the paintball arms race, and outsource the creativity for what you come up with to fuel it? Did the Gardners' think they could sit back and collect a paycheck while a second company corners a market for them? The math doesn't seem like it's there as far as cost versus profit goes.

[Ratt]

Davidsons website was so off the chart I looked around and found this.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2006/1127/070.html

Needless to say its not looking good for him.

AGD

From the website posted above:

"Inventors pay $800 to see if their ideas conflict with existing patents and whether there's a potential market. If an invention passes those hurdles, Davison Design charges $10,000 or more to create a prototype of the product."

So, let's say the typical invention that 'passes those hurdles' gets charged anywhere from $11K on up to, let's say...$20K. Those two jackwagons (Gardner Bros.) owe that company OVER HALF A MIL! Am I the only one who is amazed by that?

I am utterly convinced that George Davison is crook, and I might even smile if he never gets his money from SP

[JRingold]

Odd, the Forbes article isn't listed on their "press" page.
http://www.inventionland.com/press.html



Davidsons website was so off the chart I looked around and found this.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2006/1127/070.html

Needless to say its not looking good for him.

AGD

[going_home]

The Gardner's and Davidson are both in Pa. Maybe its scheme to put some of SP frozen assets back into their own pockets.?

[factoid]

From the website posted above:

"Inventors pay $800 to see if their ideas conflict with existing patents and whether there's a potential market. If an invention passes those hurdles, Davison Design charges $10,000 or more to create a prototype of the product."

So, let's say the typical invention that 'passes those hurdles' gets charged anywhere from $11K on up to, let's say...$20K. Those two jackwagons (Gardner Bros.) owe that company OVER HALF A MIL! Am I the only one who is amazed by that?

I am utterly convinced that George Davison is crook, and I might even smile if he never gets his money from SP

He won't get it from SP, but it's possible he'll get it (or at least some of it) from White Hats if they end up buying the company and take on their debt.

[rabidchihauhau]

Davidsons website was so off the chart I looked around and found this.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2006/1127/070.html

Needless to say its not looking good for him.

AGD

Tom,

VERY important that you get the spelling of George Davison's name right. Mine is DaviDson. His is Davison.

And I have nothing to do with his inventor-scam company, lol.

[Drix]

VERY important that you get the spelling of George Davison's name right. Mine is DaviDson. His is Davison.

I have nothing to do with his inventor-scam company.
:ninja:

[spantol]

He and the Gardners have a bit of a history in that line of work:

http://www.ftc.gov/os/1997/07/davisb~1.htm

[going_home]

He and the Gardners have a bit of a history in that line of work:

http://www.ftc.gov/os/1997/07/davisb~1.htm


Wow good find.

;)

[AGD]

OOPS looks like they are out 10 mill

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2008/07/davison.shtm

AGD

[Ratt]

I can't help but to wonder if tweedle-dumb and tweedle-dumber (Gardner Bros) saw any kind of return from the $500k they gave to Davison, or if they got any of their money back after the lawsuit.

If they didn't, would that be considered a form of 'poetic justice'? :D

[druid]

OOPS looks like they are out 10 mill

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2008/07/davison.shtm

AGD

Isn't that the supposed cost that SP was in debt?

[factoid]

I can't help but to wonder if tweedle-dumb and tweedle-dumber (Gardner Bros) saw any kind of return from the $500k they gave to Davison, or if they got any of their money back after the lawsuit.

If they didn't, would that be considered a form of 'poetic justice'? :D


Actually it's Smart Parts that owes DAVISON money. In their bankruptcy filing they list him as the creditor holding the third largest unsecured claim against smart parts. So the Gardners owe him $530,000.

A basic rundown of what their debt consists of for anyone who doesn't want to read the bankruptcy filing.

A million bucks owed to their chinese manufacturing facility. Another million owed between the Pennsylvania Industrial Development Authority and the Machine and Equipment Loan Fund. A quarter mil in bank loans. Half a mil to this George Davison character. A hundred and seventy thousand to an intellectual property law firm. Almost a hundred grand owed to a paintball club in california. And another couple hundred grand or so amongst a number of what I assume are various suppliers, phone companies, graphic design firms, etc...


All told it's around $3.5 million in unsecured debt.



Isn't that the supposed cost that SP was in debt?

They list on their chapter 11 filing that their assets are between 1 and 10 million and liabilities 10 to 50 million.

[Skeeter]

All told it's around $3.5 million in unsecured debt.


They list on their chapter 11 filing that their assets are between 1 and 10 million and liabilities 10 to 50 million.


What I have not seen evidence of, is the >$3 million to PNC Bank... I have this on good authority, but have not been able to find "hard" information to back this up. PNC Bank was a major creditor to SP, and PNC was supposed to be the current holder of the SP IP.

I have spent a few hours searching for the PNC link with no luck at all. My sources could be wrong, but that would be a big surprise.

Is there a "shell" company for Smart Parts, LLC.? Is there another layer beyond what the current documentation shows?


If you are up for a giggle... Take a look at a 2007 "Billy Gardner" rant:
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?p=40787300#post40787300

I hate to link ANYONE to PBNation, but the hypocracy is EPIC!

[factoid]

What I have not seen evidence of, is the >$3 million to PNC Bank... I have this on good authority, but have not been able to find "hard" information to back this up. PNC Bank was a major creditor to SP, and PNC was supposed to be the current holder of the SP IP.

I have spent a few hours searching for the PNC link with no luck at all. My sources could be wrong, but that would be a big surprise.

Is there a "shell" company for Smart Parts, LLC.? Is there another layer beyond what the current documentation shows?


If you are up for a giggle... Take a look at a 2007 "Billy Gardner" rant:
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?p=40787300#post40787300

I hate to link ANYONE to PBNation, but the hypocracy is EPIC!

Those are probably secured loans, meaning that there is collateral tied to it such as the factory, equipment, unsold inventory, etc.... They don't have to disclose those on a bankruptcy filing.

[Drix]

If you are up for a giggle... Take a look at a 2007 "Billy Gardner" rant:
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?p=40787300#post40787300


He went on another rant this year before filing bankrupcy (no-where near as big) where he blames smart parts haters for his turn in busniess fortune. I read it and was like "Really now?" The man's a whiney little B.

[Ando]

He went on another rant this year before filing bankrupcy (no-where near as big) where he blames smart parts haters for his turn in busniess fortune.
LOL....Never seen that one. I'm kind of :dance: he acknowledge the haters helped in their downfall.

Whitehat better not keep the name if they acquire the company. No mater how well known it is, that chapter needs to be closed and buried forever.

[Drix]

Just gotta carry on the hate to Gi milsim and some of those other companies.

[doc_Zox]

http://www.googlepixel.com/SPtrip/

a trip to the SP all american field last weekend

[John Dresser]

That's the same George Davison that used to play professionally on the All Americans. He's the guy who invented Goggleflauge (http://www.davison.com/products/product_goggleflauge.html).

http://www.georgemdavison.com/about/paintball.html

[Skeeter]

http://www.googlepixel.com/SPtrip/

a trip to the SP all american field last weekend


CLASSIC slide show!!! That was good for a chuckle! :cheers:

[Ratt]

http://www.googlepixel.com/SPtrip/

a trip to the SP all american field last weekend


:rofl: :clap: HOLY COW! You have no idea how much that slide show brightened my day!!! :clap: :rofl:

[factoid]

That's the same George Davison that used to play professionally on the All Americans. He's the guy who invented Goggleflauge (http://www.davison.com/products/product_goggleflauge.html).

http://www.georgemdavison.com/about/paintball.html


Wow. Were major character flaws a requirement to be on the All Americans, or is that just a coincidence? The Gardners also came out of that team, right?

[Skeeter]

Wow. Were major character flaws a requirement to be on the All Americans, or is that just a coincidence? The Gardners also came out of that team, right?


IIRC, the Gardners were co-captains and the MAJOR sponsor of that team... Not sure about the "character flaw" question, but it would be fun to research...

How many of the former AAs have criminal records or a history of bankrupcies??? Anyone have the team rosters, from a few years ago?

[factoid]

IIRC, the Gardners were co-captains and the MAJOR sponsor of that team... Not sure about the "character flaw" question, but it would be fun to research...

How many of the former AAs have criminal records or a history of bankrupcies??? Anyone have the team rosters, from a few years ago?


Wasn't AGD their major sponsor at one point? I thought that's where Smart Parts got their start...working with TK and making aftermarket parts for mags.

[Pump Scout]

Wasn't AGD their major sponsor at one point? I thought that's where Smart Parts got their start...working with TK and making aftermarket parts for mags.

The All Americans shot AutoMags in between their PMI-3's and the Shoebox Shocker, IIRC. Not sure if that was a product of SP making lots of aftermarket Mag parts, or if there was an actual sponsorship involved. I tend to think it would have been more in the line of running Mags because they were one of two legitimate tourney guns at the time, and SP could throw more stuff at a Mag than they could at a Cocker at the time.

[rabidchihauhau]

The All Americans shot AutoMags in between their PMI-3's and the Shoebox Shocker, IIRC. Not sure if that was a product of SP making lots of aftermarket Mag parts, or if there was an actual sponsorship involved. I tend to think it would have been more in the line of running Mags because they were one of two legitimate tourney guns at the time, and SP could throw more stuff at a Mag than they could at a Cocker at the time.

During that time frame, so far as I know, there were only two officially sponsored 'factory' teams - Swarm and the S.O.B.s.

Smart Parts approached AGD to manufacture aftermarket accessories and "improvements" (like the so-called faster recharging 8 hole mod or the, increase your range magic box).

As usual, it was not an attempt to partner or improve the brand but a ploy to get inside information so that the company could take advantage of a popular market/product.

I'm sure they called it "sponsorship" at the time, but I think it was more of a business deal, since they were obviously able to purchase product at a good price in order to do their 'mods' and re-sell.

Beyond the changes listed above, they offered splash-anodized dress-up kits (rails, site mount, barrel, grip), figured out that adding co2 and nitro together gave them better performance, seriously pushed remote systems as the answer to the liquid problem and did some funky other stuff to the guns that must have been somewhat questionable since they went absolutely ape when someone managed to steal one during the NPPL Reno event.

What it boiled down to was they figured out a way to force the 'climbing' fps in an on-demand fashion, so while you were shooting at 296 max, they were shooting back at 350 - or so everyone thought at the time.

[luke]

Any new information the WH's?

[Chronobreak]

Any new information the WH's?

i dont think the deal went through at this point