Titanium bolt

[Whisky]

My brother in law is a machinist engineer (i guess that is what is it called in english) and proposed me to make a bolt in titanium, super strong and super light, but would it work.? Would it be too light or it don't matter.? I need your mag's technical knowledge here.
Rej "Whisky"

[Bonx0007]

I think the reason why AGD doesn't do it is because it would cost too much to the consumer. I think. I would make it and weigh it compared to a superbolt. Then let us all know the difference.

[Hysperion]

Hey whisky, if your brother makes a capable titanium bolt and decides to sell it, I'm willing to pay between $80-100 for one. I bet quite a few people would be interested in one if it was high quality - based off the standard EMAG (longnose) bolt, and made of titanium, they may sell like hot cakes...... I have a sb now and the front end flew off, so I'm looking for something lighter then steel but more sturdy then delrin....Aluminum or titanium seem best to me....

[Whisky]

I wanted one in aluminum but he told me to forget that, aluminum is too weak for that kind of duty that is why he said that the best material for this would be titanium. Anyway i'll give it a try and i'll let you know, he should do it this week.

[50 cal]

The only problem you might have is the sear galling against the Ti bolt.

If you have it made, try it out and let us know if the trigger pull gets any heavier with use. If it gets heavier, the sear is galling.

Ti in it's natural state is a 34 Rc hardness. I don't know what AGD heat treats the sear to. There may be a conflict with the two parts interacting.

You can't just make something and use it. Lots of testing goes into any new product. Let's hope you don't screw your mag up doing this.

[Whisky]

50 cal, hopefully not that is why i ask the question here.

[Hysperion]

you may be right...if a ti bolt were that easy to make, agd would prolly have done it already. Buy hey! it's worth a shot :)

[BlackVCG]

Titanium is a very misunderstood metal. It really doesn't belong in paintball at all because it does not have the mechanical properities like stainless steel, aluminum and delrin. If you were to make a titanium bolt you would need to make it out of a titanium alloy such as Grade 5. The problem is all of the titanium alloys have poor wear characteristics. This means metal to metal wear is poor so interfacing with a sear like in the Mag would wear it out very quickly.

Titanium is strong for its weight and is used usually to replace aluminum and magnesium. It also has excellent corrosion resistance. Titanium belongs in medical, food and aerospace industries, not paintball.

[Paintchucker]

New PowerTube Tip Assembly $10
New Trigger Sear Assembly $15

Having a new working titanium bolt that your brother made...

Priceless !!!


Sounds like an interesting experiment. BlackVCG may be correct on the metal to metal properties, but on the other hand, a titanium driver is going about 100mph when it hits a golf ball...

[Gunga]

Shocktech supposedly is (or was) working on a titanium bolt for the mag.

[Bwaites]

I'm not sure about the wear characteristics of Titanium, but I used to build high performance automobile engines and I used Titanium pistons, Titanium valves, and Titanium pushrods. All of those seem to be similar to a bolt in the stop/start requirements.

Maybe the heat in a car engine makes the metal more wear resistant, but that goes against what I remember from my metals class in high school. Maybe one of the engineers on the forums could give us a better idea.

I have always wondered why we were so hyped about delrin, though I am playing with a superbolt, when Ti was available. I assumed it was because of Titaniums cost, but have never heard Tom back down when cost was an issue if it was the best material for the job.

Maybe Tom can shed some light.

Bill

[Army]

Ti engine parts are being constantly lubed, plus the heat makes them expand to fit perfectly, thus minimum wear factors. Golf clubs are usually Ti faced (thin sheet), with steel or aluminum as the actual head material.

Ti doesn't "rub" well, despite it's strong properties. I have Ti firing pins in two of my rifles. The strength of Ti allows it to strike in line with no damage to itself, but the surrounding springs have rubbed them fiercely. I'll not replace them with another Ti pin, I'll go back to stainless.

[AGD]

Ti is not hard enough for use as a bolt period. Don't waste your time. The stainless we use gets hardened in a heat treating process, non-hardened bolts wear out in weeks.

We did make some Titanium valves once and they were so close to regular ones they got mixed into the works and went out on regular guns. We were very dissapointed in the weight savings, not that much really. Ti is best were you can use less of it than aluminum.

AGD

[BlackVCG]

Tom, are the bolts carburized (case hardened), or what heat treatment process do they go through? Any specs on the Rockwell C hardness of the bolt and sear? I was planning on taking a bolt and sear down to the metallurgy lab and testing the hardness, but haven't got around to it.

[AGD]

If I remember right the bolts are in the 50's and the sears in the 60's RC

AGD

[Lord Vader]

That's hard.

[Whisky]

If the only issue possible is that the bolt will wear fast i think i'll give it a try anyway. Probably that weight saving won't be that much as you say Tom, i don't know much about metal. I just like to experiment. Like the on\off switch i installed on my Emag to replace the yellow tab, everybody was saying not to do this, and i tried anyway, of course the only issue possible was that the switch would burn ( but it don't ) so i installed 5 other switches on Emags and Micro Emags. Well people here are now calling Emag's here... SR Emags ( Super Rej Emags ) :D

[Redkey]

Where do you have access to a metals lab?

[BlackVCG]

My school campus (Oregon Institute of Technology) has a machine shop that covers 2 acres. One of the "buildings" inside the main building is a metallurgy lab.

[slayer]

is it possible to make a hardened SS sleave and back part (where the sear catches) and a titanium infrastructure and fuse them together. I would cost a lot I suppose but if you don't have to replace stuff like on the superbolt it may turn out to be more cost efficient. Although...I kind of enjoy the recoil produced by a standard bolt. That way when I shoot someone they have stitch marks that go up their body. I could never figure out why that was, but the gun raises up just a little. Actually when firing on someone far away, i shoot conservatively with elevation and let the gun work up and meet them :) The results are good and the amusement is great

[Magluvr]

Originally posted by AGD
Ti is not hard enough for use as a bolt period. Don't waste your time. The stainless we use gets hardened in a heat treating process, non-hardened bolts wear out in weeks.

We did make some Titanium valves once and they were so close to regular ones they got mixed into the works and went out on regular guns. We were very dissapointed in the weight savings, not that much really. Ti is best were you can use less of it than aluminum.

AGD

So does the same apply to Titanium barrels? Since the bolt will be so hard compared to the barrel, that it will rub through. Or is the bolt setup in such a way that it will not touch the barrel; it might come really close but it will never actually touch the barrel itself.
Are there any other downsides to titanium barrels I should know about?

[RT_Luver]

I've heard that titanium is very strong and can withstand weight but is also brittle and couldn't withstand the constant impact that the bolt recieves and eventually would break

[tremis]

What about the Venom bolt idea? Titanium bolt with a stinless flange to catch the sear. The face and power piston were a real hard nylon.And had a foamie. Super light. And it worked just fine. When I installed mine the fps dropped about 3-4 but you could feel a difference when you shot. The wear on the Ti part against the inside of the bolt spring was negligable. Dozens and dozens of cases of paint, and the logo wasn't rubbed off. It cost 50 bucks, very comparable to other bolts.Why not something like that but in the longnose style?

Tremis

[keiphers]

Have him make like 5 test bolts. I'll test one of them, even if I have to pay a little.

[[M@g_D@ddy]]

yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea, me too me too