The Brothers Grimm are back under a new Alias: GOG paintball

[CatoRockwell]

http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/dead-zone/134757-smart-parts-gog.html

Get the word out and lets squash this company before the brothers grimm ever have a chance.

Let the torchlighting commence.
:mad: :mad:

[MAGpie]

http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/dead-zone/134757-smart-parts-gog.html

Get the word out and lets squash this company before the brothers grimm ever have a chance.

Let the torchlighting commence.
:mad: :mad:

Funny. I posted an almost identical post in our local PB forum. I just used the Brother Sue-Everyone.

My Sig on most forums: ;)

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll34/th3_m4d_h4tt3r/nosp.jpg

[factoid]

Yeah, I've been trying to dig up some info on GOG, but all I can tell is that they're selling rebranded Dow33. There's no indication that they've acquired or transfered any of Smart Parts' assets. They are probably trying, though, along with everyone else. The lube thing is probably just so that they can create a small revenue stream and show the banks they're a real company that can put product on shelves fast.

[Ratzo]

http://www.gogpaintball.com/

[aerosaaber]

They must have bought the rights to the freak barrels because they're listed on the site (look like the same stock pics as before).
Other things like "max-flo" and "fire bolt" make me think they went bankrupt to dump their debt, then bought the rights to all the stuff they used to make with other people's money.
Shady business practice much? (though totally legal)

[kruger]

You can tell that they dont have much money, did you see the hideous looking model on their web site? They need to sell some stuff to buy that chick a ham sandwich.

[aerosaaber]

Crackheads work for cheap and don't want to eat a ham sandwich

[FireFoxnz]

anyone else notice the main contact is in Costa Rica and the USA/European numbers direct to the same UK number?

S

[KillerOfGiants]

lol "eNVy"? it's a freakin vibe!

[Chronobreak]

girl model? thought it was a guy, look closer :P

this is kinda old news...if you have been following everything at least.

anyone who thought the gardners would go out willingly is naive.

[Smoothice]

That model is a boner killer.

Apparently GoG and smartparts markers have the same barrel threading :tard:



http://www.gogpaintball.com/tctbarrel.html


And some maintanence items:


Maintenance: The following items are available to buy separately for maintenance and repair:
* GR33SE Lubricant
* Screw Kit -eXTCy/Ion
* Seal Kit – eXTCy/Ion

[druid]

http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/dead-zone/134757-smart-parts-gog.html

Get the word out and lets squash this company before the brothers grimm ever have a chance.

Let the torchlighting commence.
:mad: :mad:

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:


.....how "Freedom fighter of you" to let them do as they wish.....

Just sayin'
:headbang:

[factoid]

It seems I was wrong about their product lineup...they're selling a rebranded Vibe as well as an SP-1 or something similar. I'm guessing the upcoming xTCy is probably a shocker.

I don't want to jump to conclusions, though...it could be that the only reason they're selling these rebranded guns is because they bought out existing smart parts inventory...they may not be manufacturing anything, and they may not own the patents. But then again they do list Smart Parts Europe as international distributor and they're operating out of the old Smart Parts facility. Seems like they managed to buy themselves back out of bankruptcy, but that isn't definitive.


Anybody hear anything about Whitehats LLC lately? Their website reflects no changes since about August. Either this IS whitehats, or they may have failed in their takeover bid.

[Frizzle Fry]

That model is a boner killer.

My **** just quit. No two weeks notice; just quit.

[CatoRockwell]

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:


.....how "Freedom fighter of you" to let them do as they wish.....

Just sayin'
:headbang:
Don't start this argument again on AO dude. You and I have a fundamental disagreement on what my rights are. I believe I have the right to blackball anyone I want so long as I don't use force to do so. I am merely letting all the SP haters out there know whats going down so they can squash this monster before it grows another head.

I know you think suggesting to other people that they shouldn't do business with these despicable people is using force, but I disagree. I am not suggesting the government shut them down, I'm not suggesting we firebomb their factory. I am merely suggesting a boycott, refusal to purchase their wares. There is nothing anti-freedom about that.

[Frizzle Fry]

I am not suggesting the government shut them down, I'm not suggesting we firebomb their factory. I am merely suggesting a boycott, refusal to purchase their wares. There is nothing anti-freedom about that.

Correct me if I'm wrong but that's in the good spirit of capitalism and the free market...

That said, they failed once, they failed a second time; they'll fail again.

[Beemer]

Must be the stuff that went out the back door under the radar. ;) :tard:

[dolphin1823]

Correct me if I'm wrong but that's in the good spirit of capitalism and the free market...

That said, they failed once, they failed a second time; they'll fail again.

I don't consider a company that sold paintball equipment, markers and accessories for 20 years "Failed".

Everyone has their opinion of them, but I feel with out their line of markers out there, the choices for low-mid range markers are much fewer now.

[RavishingEddie]

The model fits the gun and that name GOG. "Hey guys I just bought a GOG" It sounds stupid.

No way they will make anything out of this.

[Frizzle Fry]

I don't consider a company that sold paintball equipment, markers and accessories for 20 years "Failed".

Well they went chapter 7, then chapter 11. That's what's known as "failure".


[QUOTE=dolphin1823]Everyone has their opinion of them, but I feel with out their line of markers out there, the choices for low-mid range markers are much fewer now.

Perhaps if ICD and WGP were still around it wouldn't be quite so hard... There are a few other companies who might like to toss their hat in the ring for low-mid range electros, and did for many years, but for whatever reason they're no longer in business, or are but stepped away from paintball to avoid the poo-flinging and gouging that the sport has devolved into.

Here's the short list of low-mid range electros...

Pirhana Evo EXT ($75)
JT/Empire ER3 ($75)
Pirhana G3 EXT ($100)
US Carver One ($125)
Pirhana Ravage ($125)
US Alpha Black ($150)
Pirhana GSX ($150)
Spyder Pilot ($150)
Azodin Blitz ($175)
Spyder MR1 ($200)
Tippmann 98C-PE ($200)
Proto SLG ($200)
BT-4 ERC ($225)
Spyder Electra ($225)
US Project Salvo ($250)
Azodin Zenith ($250)
Tippmann A5-HE ($275)
Spyder MR2 ($275)
Azodin KP+ ($275)
Invert Mini ($300)
Spyder Fenix ($300)
Tippmann X7-HE ($350)
Tippmann Phenom ($375)
BT TM7 ($375)
Dangerous Power G3 ($400)


As for stuff that can be found new but is out of production, the Rex clone guns (timmies, spyders, cockers), the WGP Trilogy series, the ICD Promaster (basically the latest gen midrange Bushmaster). Mustn't forget the old 32* and Psychoballistics markers. This stuff can always be NOS/NIB on eBay or Amazon, even in stores. All of this stuff is under $150, electronic, and upgradable, and readily available.


You'll note that none of the markers mentioned above are more than 10% plastic, with the exception of the sub $100 range. Can you say the same for ANYTHING the Smart Parts <$400 line? In the last 10 years? No need to answer... I'm not denying that there were some great accessories made in the early years, but after the first decade or so everything was too cheap and too poorly supported. If Smart Parts had stuck to barrels, grips, and accessories... Well, they've still be around.

[CatoRockwell]

Correct me if I'm wrong but that's in the good spirit of capitalism and the free market...

That said, they failed once, they failed a second time; they'll fail again.
Thats what I'm saying, Druid thinks its counter to my beliefs in the free market to verbally try to boycott a company.

[CatoRockwell]

I'm a libertarian. You guys can both think what you want as long as you don't **** with me or eachother :p

That said, I don't need rebranded Dow 33 or a plastic $200 electro so I don't think it'll be challenging for me to stay away from GOG.

I'm also a libertarian. You're just jumping into a long argument about philosophy and human rights taht Druid and I have had across 2, no now 3 forums. He is not a libertarian. He thinks we believe in total chaos.

[factoid]

I don't consider a company that sold paintball equipment, markers and accessories for 20 years "Failed".

Everyone has their opinion of them, but I feel with out their line of markers out there, the choices for low-mid range markers are much fewer now.

Smart Parts and their patent abuse is the very reason we don't have more choice in the electro market.

Oh, and while we're on the subject of boycots...there is absolutely NOTHING anti-capitalism about boycots. Voting with your wallet is the absolute bedrock foundation of the free market. And our right to freedom of speech entitles anyone to voice their opinion and attempt to persuade others.

Of course you're also free to voice a counter-opinion if you think they're wrong. Neither party is infringing on anyone's freedom by doing so.

[druid]

Nah...I call it what it is...

People sit and cry about AGD, AKA [et al] and blast SP - yet own Empire, Halo, DXS and everything from everyone who does the same BS...just in a "different venue."

...all the while, claiming people should have the "right" to do whatever they want....just so long as what 'they' [SP] wants is the same was what they [cato and crowd] wants too. If not, jump to boycott them.

The hypocrisy is astounding.

BUT...I'm done with this thread. They're back, get used to it and have your tissues ready for when you get eliminated by another $200 marker while shooting your $1,500-$2,000 X-Mag.

Night.

[mostpeople]

This coming from a guy who was asking about buying a new AKA marker...


And to be honest, I don't recall Empire/Halo/DXS lying to get patents and then completely stopping the free progress of paintball marker technology with C&D's. I do however remember SMART PARTS/Gardner bros. doing that to everyone else though.

so FSP and FGP!!

[theGOLDENchild]

A SP ad from my Feb, 2001 issue of APG. enjoy :rolleyes:

http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/xx192/goldenpc/SPAd.jpg

[factoid]

A SP ad from my Feb, 2001 issue of APG. enjoy :rolleyes:

http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/xx192/goldenpc/SPAd.jpg


Wow...that was...interesting.

I love the part where they claim to have invented electronic control of paintball guns. Because theirs wasn't even the first electro on the market, they were just the first to apply for a patent by a month or two. Several manufacturers were developing this same technology simultaneously.

And SP successfully altered their patent filing several times, widening it until it encompassed all electropneumatic paintball markers.

Their first filing I felt was actually pretty reasonable and in line with what patents are SUPPOSED to be. They originally filed for something along the lines of a dual-solenoid electropneumatic design with a specific ram setup.

They patented their design basically...which I think is fine. But then they went back and said "No, actually we invented the very idea, so you have to pay us to use it".

What Empire and some of the others do is patent designs and processes. As far as I know DXS hasn't issued a cease and desist against other paintball manufacturers just for making biodegradable paintball fill....they just patented their particular formula and manufacturing process.

[Frizzle Fry]

What Empire and some of the others do is patent designs and processes. As far as I know DXS hasn't issued a cease and desist against other paintball manufacturers just for making biodegradable paintball fill....they just patented their particular formula and manufacturing process.

Exactly. There's no response to that... Plenty of companies were bloodthirsty in their patent grabbing, and a few were bloodthirsty in their attempts to enforce (thing K2 going after AM-P...) but none played games like that. The barrel insert lawsuits and patents, the EP lawsuits and patents, even the attempt to control the ported barrel... Other companies "settled" for what they created and deserved, but Smart Parts couldn't.

[hill160881]

The very first time i see a gog, i will smile and say, you've been GOGed. Like someone smothered you in smelly gog.

GOG, it sounds like something dead, and rotten, with maggots, that smells really bad. :eek:

[Coralis]

God wouldn't be "karmic" if someone else were able to get the SP patents and then sue these guys for violating the patents

[Frizzle Fry]

God wouldn't be "karmic" if someone else were able to get the SP patents and then sue these guys for violating the patents
:rofl:

[bound for glory]

and so it begins again...

[going_home]

GOG Booth:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/going_home/PSP%20World%20Cup%20Florida%202010/DSC_0001.jpg


http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/going_home/PSP%20World%20Cup%20Florida%202010/DSC_0002.jpg


http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/going_home/PSP%20World%20Cup%20Florida%202010/DSC_0003.jpg


http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/going_home/PSP%20World%20Cup%20Florida%202010/DSC_0004.jpg


http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/going_home/PSP%20World%20Cup%20Florida%202010/DSC_0005.jpg


http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/going_home/PSP%20World%20Cup%20Florida%202010/DSC_0006.jpg


http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/going_home/PSP%20World%20Cup%20Florida%202010/DSC_0007.jpg

[going_home]

GI Milsim .50 cal test booth.
1st pic is the guy running it.


http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/going_home/PSP%20World%20Cup%20Florida%202010/DSC_0017.jpg


http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/going_home/PSP%20World%20Cup%20Florida%202010/DSC_0014.jpg


http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/going_home/PSP%20World%20Cup%20Florida%202010/DSC_0015.jpg


http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/going_home/PSP%20World%20Cup%20Florida%202010/DSC_0016.jpg


People were shooting each other with .50 cal just to see how bad it hurt compared to .68.

Yeah I know :tard:

[Frizzle Fry]

I'm impressed with the lack of customers :D

[going_home]

I'm impressed with the lack of customers :D

There was a line to shoot the .50 cal Luxe though.
I didnt, just watched the crazy kids shoot each other at abot 20 feet,

:tard:

[going_home]

I wonder if the Gardners will have to pay royalties on their electronic markers
now that a bank owns the infamous electronic patents ?
They dont offer any mechanical markers at either place, GOG Paintball or GI Sportz.



:tard:

[factoid]

I wonder if the Gardners will have to pay royalties on their electronic markers
now that a bank owns the infamous electronic patents ?
They dont offer any mechanical markers at either place, GOG Paintball or GI Sportz.



:tard:

They might have bought themselves back.

If G.I. Milsim was still liquid they could have taken money out of that company and used it to buy up the Smart Parts assets.

[Drix]

http://www.gogpaintball.com/

Did anyone else see that their model happens to be wearing sleeves that say "I'd insult you but your not smart enough to notice"?

Guess what- I noticed

[druid]

This coming from a guy who was asking about buying a new AKA marker...


And to be honest, I don't recall Empire/Halo/DXS lying to get patents and then completely stopping the free progress of paintball marker technology with C&D's. I do however remember SMART PARTS/Gardner bros. doing that to everyone else though.

so FSP and FGP!!

OK...I tried to stay out but I phail...

Yes, I'm buying a Viking. Not because I hate SP though. I've never owned one and YouTubing the Viking makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. Every one [save one that was having trouble with his] looks, sounds and acts like it's pure shecks. I will buy and try any marker once...and this one is one I haven't had the pleasure of owning yet. I shot one YEARS ago, so long ago in fact, I can't really remember the experience.

As to the second paragraph, I'll just say that I stole this from another forum because it's exactly what I mean and said earlier:

I don't see any one complaining about Dye. When Dye aquired the rights to the Matrix, Dye didn't even give manufactures the option to pay royalties on parts manufactured for the Matrix. They sent out immediate cease and desist orders to many companies. The reason they did this is, because they did not want to repair markers with other companies bolt systems in them and instead of just saying the warranty was void they drove these other companies out of business....and here's an article to back that up: http://www.pblegion.com/showpost.php?p=59065&postcount=19

So while everyone's killing each other to put a Dye UL frame on their ___________, using a Rotor or sporting their Jerseys.......congratulations...you are a supporting member of another "SP" type company and have NO reason to complain about SP [alone].

NOW I'm done. Good night.

[bound for glory]

well, i happen to be of the opinion that DYE sucks, too. so theres that...

[Frizzle Fry]

OK...I tried to stay out but I phail...

Yes, I'm buying a Viking. Not because I hate SP though. I've never owned one and YouTubing the Viking makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. Every one [save one that was having trouble with his] looks, sounds and acts like it's pure shecks. I will buy and try any marker once...and this one is one I haven't had the pleasure of owning yet. I shot one YEARS ago, so long ago in fact, I can't really remember the experience.

As to the second paragraph, I'll just say that I stole this from another forum because it's exactly what I mean and said earlier:

I don't see any one complaining about Dye. When Dye aquired the rights to the Matrix, Dye didn't even give manufactures the option to pay royalties on parts manufactured for the Matrix. They sent out immediate cease and desist orders to many companies. The reason they did this is, because they did not want to repair markers with other companies bolt systems in them and instead of just saying the warranty was void they drove these other companies out of business....and here's an article to back that up: http://www.pblegion.com/showpost.php?p=59065&postcount=19

So while everyone's killing each other to put a Dye UL frame on their ___________, using a Rotor or sporting their Jerseys.......congratulations...you are a supporting member of another "SP" type company and have NO reason to complain about SP [alone].

NOW I'm done. Good night.


So basically you're equating DYEs decision to enforce the patent that they'd bought (no false claims) to an extremely specific marker design they'd bought (no sweeping statements) for a brief period of time (a handful of months between 2003 and 2004) to flush out the fairly common control issues in aftermarket parts and bodies from two specific companies?

By 2004 there were DYE-approved 3rd party accessories, and in 05/06 several companies had private label guns run up or made customshop models... That article seems pretty neutral except for Drew Nelsons comments, which don't have much value seeing as he was the one producing that parts that were causing all the problems, and is probably fairly bitter about the whole situation.


That in no way compares to the constant broadening of a patent that goes from "specific marker design" to "marker that uses two solenoids" to "marker that uses an electronic triggering device" all the way to "marker that uses electronics". Smart Parts wasn't sending cease and desist notices because of QC issues with 3rd parties, or because people were copying a specific marker design that they own. If Matrixes are breaking, DYE loses out. If Excals and Ecockers are breaking, that in no way effects Smart Parts.

[cerrik]

If Matrixes are breaking, DYE loses out. If Excals and Ecockers are breaking, that in no way effects Smart Parts.

It does if ppl switch to a SP marker when their other one breaks. Makes them rich it does. :D

[Ravenneon]

Nah...I call it what it is...

People sit and cry about AGD, AKA [et al] and blast SP - yet own Empire, Halo, DXS and everything from everyone who does the same BS...just in a "different venue."

...all the while, claiming people should have the "right" to do whatever they want....just so long as what 'they' [SP] wants is the same was what they [cato and crowd] wants too. If not, jump to boycott them.

The hypocrisy is astounding.

BUT...I'm done with this thread. They're back, get used to it and have your tissues ready for when you get eliminated by another $200 marker while shooting your $1,500-$2,000 X-Mag.

Night.

I don't see how getting knocked out by a cheap marker would offend someone. Hell, someone could knock you out just by throwing a paintball at you reguardless of what marker you own. When I was a newbie and just got a minimag I knocked out guys with Angels. Not a single one of them were ever mad. In fact all those guys usually came up to kids like me and shook our hands and commented on how it was a good shot. Those were the days where it wasn't about lighting someone up or psycho dominating a market. Thats why I bought a mag was for the quality eventhough you could pick up something equivelant for half the price or less. Take my minimag for instance, in 2000 it was a 425 dollar marker.

As for the whole SP issue. I personal don't like Smart Parts. I have to many memories of being shot up by the old shoe box shockers. Which wouldn't bother me so much except that everytime the refs would check their markers they would be shooting hot. Then not only that but they would be complete a**holes about it. It just turned me off to smart parts all together. Not to mention they also had reliability issue with them as well. But I'm sure if you fast forward to present day quality you would think would be a little better. I won't buy Smart Parts because I don't like them. Not because I want boycott them or I hate what the Garner's stood for. It's capitalism at its finest. Greed turns people into animals and the worst thing about it is the law allows it.

So in conclusion AGD ROCKS!! Thats all I own as far as markers go and as long as there is automags thats all I'll ever spend money on.

[CatoRockwell]

I don't see how what they did is capitalism at its finest :(

There are plenty of capitalist ventures that are honest and succeed by providing a product that hits the markets requirements either through price, quality, service, or a combination thereof.

If anything it shows a problem with our patent law process.

[Ravenneon]

I don't see how what they did is capitalism at its finest :( There are plenty of capitalist ventures that are honest and succeed by providing a product that hits the markets requirements either through price, quality, service, or a combination thereof.

If anything it shows a problem with our patent law process.


I meant it to be sarcastic...evidently it wasn't

[KillerOfGiants]

If SP were meant to succeed, they would. They didn't provide a quality product and instead through out BS like owning a patent for any markers with an on/off switch... I mean... really? That's as bad as when Harley-Davidson attempted to trademark the ****ty sound their 'cycles make.

Speaking of on/off switches. How could SP send a cease & desist to AGD when the emags use a pin to open and close the circuit?

[Frizzle Fry]

If SP were meant to succeed, they would. They didn't provide a quality product and instead through out BS like owning a patent for any markers with an on/off switch... I mean... really? That's as bad as when Harley-Davidson attempted to trademark the ****ty sound their 'cycles make.

Speaking of on/off switches. How could SP send a cease & desist to AGD when the emags use a pin to open and close the circuit?

Check out the Have Blues patent page... It's VERY open ended.

[mostpeople]

I love the Dye Rotor, I mean lets be honest its one of if not the best hopper systems out there. Prophecy is either equal, or a little lower in rank.

[MAGpie]

I'll just say this again : ;)

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll34/th3_m4d_h4tt3r/nosp.jpg

Will have to amend to include a GoG somewhere...

[bound for glory]

this still going? really, who the hell cares? AGD guys like us hate these jerks. but this is getting old :rolleyes: are we all mad at them because they tried to advance their "brand"? yep, they steped on many toes, to say the least...but thats what they do. we know this. its been beaten to death. the mods should put a cap on this crap.
who cares if these idiots have a new gig going? don't buy from them. let it go.

[CatoRockwell]

Not everyone knows who is behind GOG, it is our responsibility as consumers to notify each other of these kind of developments so that no one makes the mistake of doing business with them

Additionally, it's our duty smash every head of this hydra until the Gardner Bros leave paintball forever OR repent of what they've done, if they can.

[Frizzle Fry]

OR repent of what they've done, if they can.

I know at least a couple other members echo this; JUST MAKE BARRELS AND GRIPS.

If Smart Parts went back to making barrel kits, grips, feednecks, and "PARTS" in general as they did for so long, there'd be little room for game-playing and patent problems... Remember back when it was cool to pick up a set of Smart Parts grips? Or a barrel? Everything was well made, looked cool, and had something going for it that made you prefer it over the next guys product, and it wasn't just price. Feednecks, eye covers, snatch grips, barrels, grips, ASAs, regulators, etc were what made Smart Parts big and what kept them alive... Regardless of what influence their markers had on the game, markers are what made them hated and killed them in the long run.

[Mindflux]

I know at least a couple other members echo this; JUST MAKE BARRELS AND GRIPS.

If Smart Parts went back to making barrel kits, grips, feednecks, and "PARTS" in general as they did for so long, there'd be little room for game-playing and patent problems... Remember back when it was cool to pick up a set of Smart Parts grips? Or a barrel? Everything was well made, looked cool, and had something going for it that made you prefer it over the next guys product, and it wasn't just price.

The problem is people are trying to patent things like flip lock feednecks and crap.

SP set too much patent trolling in motion and really stunned the innovative process for a lot of companies, some of which abandoned paintball all together and some that are just clinging on to a small loyalist community like AGD.

I'd be nice for those patents to expire and have AGD at least 'draft up' what their next-gen electro marker could be if they ever decided to make one.

Though I guess I love my mech markers too much, I don't even own anything new fangled.

[halB]

You wanna screw these guys over? See that suit on the front page? I bet you dollars to donuts that they don't own that image and are using it illegaly. Find the original image and creator, notify them, and let a lawsuit END these people.

[Magmoormaster]

Let's see how many friends I lose with this post...

I'm actually sort of happy to see them come back. Let's be honest, the SP-1/Vibe was a great gun, espicially for the price. I like the fact that they are remaking both (even if the prices on both have gone up a good $50). At the current time, there really aren't many good sub-$200 guns in production right now. I mean, Tippmanns are good, but it's really not in the same league as a spool.

I used to hate SP... but the more I think about it, the more I see their products being pretty good. Even the Ion. I mean come on, the idea of having a gun designed so that you can upgrade the crap out of it is a really smart business plan. It means that customers will want to spend more money on upgrades and therefore the company gets more money. I GARUNTEE that most, if not all, companies have done the same or something similar.

I'm not saying that they were right to sue people out of business for patents they didn't have. And I'm not saying that I'll be buying anything from GOG anytime soon (actually, I will be getting a Freak soon), but I am saying that it's good for paintball in general for their products to be on the market. Because EVERYONE benefits; the players benefit by getting a cheap gun that will outperform anything in it's price range. And the stores benefit from the continued sales of not only their guns, but their upgrades.

Let the flaming begin. :rolleyes:

[KillerOfGiants]

I mean come on, the idea of having a gun designed so that you can upgrade the crap out of it is a really smart business plan. It means that customers will want to spend more money on upgrades and therefore the company gets more money. I GARUNTEE that most, if not all, companies have done the same or something similar.

AGD. You can upgrade virtually every component on a classic/minimag but basically end up with a different marker. I really did enjoy my SP1, though.

[Magmoormaster]

That's a little different though. All of those parts were made for the next gun, and were reverse compatible.

[going_home]

GI Milsim .68 cal paint.

Just in case you dont want to buy it.



http://www.paintballx3.com/images/stories/giimperialsmall.jpg




:ninja:

[CatoRockwell]

I disagree, what they did was turn paintball from a bunch of cool innovative options in company, design, etc... into a industry where companies are more concerned with finding a way to screw each other than they are with actually coming up with true innovative ideas to earn business.

I don't care if a cheap electro is a good idea for the market, everything good that came from smart parts could have been done without betraying everyone, and is therefore outweighed by their bad actions. By doing business with them, we encourage their behaviors.

I for one will never purchase anything made by the gardner bros. They need to leave the industry. I will steer anyone I can away from that company. Same as I do with Walmart. If people want cheap crap they can buy cheap crap. I for one will buy higher quality produce, meat, etc... & paintball equipment from quality companies that succeed on the merits of their quality & services not on how low they can go on price.

[going_home]

Same as I do with Walmart.


Attention Walmart shoppers !



http://man-over-board.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/556268-walmart-shoppers.jpg

[halB]

Let's see how many friends I lose with this post...

I'm actually sort of happy to see them come back. Let's be honest, the SP-1/Vibe was a great gun, espicially for the price. I like the fact that they are remaking both (even if the prices on both have gone up a good $50). At the current time, there really aren't many good sub-$200 guns in production right now. I mean, Tippmanns are good, but it's really not in the same league as a spool.

I used to hate SP... but the more I think about it, the more I see their products being pretty good. Even the Ion. I mean come on, the idea of having a gun designed so that you can upgrade the crap out of it is a really smart business plan. It means that customers will want to spend more money on upgrades and therefore the company gets more money. I GARUNTEE that most, if not all, companies have done the same or something similar.

I'm not saying that they were right to sue people out of business for patents they didn't have. And I'm not saying that I'll be buying anything from GOG anytime soon (actually, I will be getting a Freak soon), but I am saying that it's good for paintball in general for their products to be on the market. Because EVERYONE benefits; the players benefit by getting a cheap gun that will outperform anything in it's price range. And the stores benefit from the continued sales of not only their guns, but their upgrades.

Let the flaming begin. :rolleyes:


If you want a cheap electro just picked up a used marker. Because the paintball makers ARE IDIOTS AND THINK GUNS ARE LIKE CARS AND NEED TO BE RELEASED ALL NEW EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

[Magmoormaster]

Some people would rather buy new, myself included (my problem is that all the guns I want haven't been in production for 5 years, at least). It's good for companies to have good, cheap guns available new. It helps the manufacturers as well as the dealers. The manufacturers don't get anything if you buy used. And if you want people to keep making stuff, you have to support them. You don't support anyone if you buy used.

@Cato, I agree with you. There wasn't any need to shut down ICD, AKA, etc. And yes, paintball technology has stagnated. But really, I think we would have reached this point regardless. Because honestly, where can it go? Poppits have been perfected, spools are getting there. Guns aren't going to get any lighter, smoother, etc.

BTW, I think Smart Parts/GoG is done sueing everyone. I don't think they have in the past 4 years that I've been playing at least.

Right now, price is the most important thing for paintball. It's an expensive sport, we all know that. Making something cost less doesn't mean it has poor quality; it just means they were smart and finally started mass producing stuff. Even Bob Long is still making stuff in his garage.

There will always be people like you, that are willing to spend more money on a higher quality product, and there's nothing wrong with that. But you have to realise, not everyone is the same. It's better for the players if there are some good cheap guns on the market. Even if you won't buy them, you should be able to see that the market demands them.

[CatoRockwell]

@Cato, I agree with you. There wasn't any need to shut down ICD, AKA, etc. And yes, paintball technology has stagnated. But really, I think we would have reached this point regardless. Because honestly, where can it go? Poppits have been perfected, spools are getting there. Guns aren't going to get any lighter, smoother, etc.

BTW, I think Smart Parts/GoG is done sueing everyone. I don't think they have in the past 4 years that I've been playing at least.

Right now, price is the most important thing for paintball. It's an expensive sport, we all know that. Making something cost less doesn't mean it has poor quality; it just means they were smart and finally started mass producing stuff. Even Bob Long is still making stuff in his garage.

There will always be people like you, that are willing to spend more money on a higher quality product, and there's nothing wrong with that. But you have to realise, not everyone is the same. It's better for the players if there are some good cheap guns on the market. Even if you won't buy them, you should be able to see that the market demands them.

Agreed, but not from the Gardners. They need to leave the sport. It's funny the sport grew just fine, when any decent mechanical marker was easily over $250. I don't think price is the problem, if people love something, they will find a way to do it. I think the problem is that the sport lost touch with the common player. They were gearing everything towards pros, speedball, legitimacy, etc... and they forgot that the vast majority were still rec players. These players still have fun in the woods. The sport lost its honor and thats been another reason we've seen droves leave. Cheating is accepted.

There's a lot of good reasons, and I think that things are headed back in the right direction, but I don't think price was ever the deciding factor in the paintball market dwindling, in fact marker's were cheaper than ever when it did.

[Magmoormaster]

Yeah, perhaps. Personally, I don't really care. A good product is a good product.

I didn't mean that the price was what drove people away... Although, most of the people I know that stopped playing say that they stopped because it was too expensive and/or don't have time. But that's irrelevant... What I'm saying, lower prices is a good thing to shoot for. And to be honest, I think that's going to be the trend from now on. We're not going to be making guns much better than they are already. The only thing we can do is make them cheaper.

[CatoRockwell]

They can make guns better, someone just needs to be innovative.

I agree equipment should be cheaper, but the free market determines the value of such things, I don't need to worry about it.