Alpha {MWB} Tech thread

[Alpha {MWB}]

I am not saying that i am a Tech head and you should ask me questions. But that i have a couple problems i am going to combine in 1 thread. Lets start with Problem #1.
Classic RT
Lvl 7 bolt


I have recently bought an Automag RT Classic. When i got it, i gassed it up it leaked pretty bad from the banjo screw but would still fire. I took out the Banjo screw out and the o-rings pretty much turned to powder. It was weird, never seen anything like it. So I ordered an Rt classic Parts kit, replaced the o-rings. Apparently it didn't do anything, because it still leaks the same place, and now down the barrel too. When i pull the trigger while it is leaking, the air flow down the barrel is decreased. I know little to nothing about classic RT's, so i am in need of some major help. I have heard some AMAZING things about you "AO tech dudes," so it is in your hands, lol.

2nd problem listed below.



ALPHA {MWB}

[Ando]

Hmm...Hard to say what might be wrong with the rail. I have 2 classic RT's. One I've had to find some thicker orings to get a good seal. The other seals fine. Sometimes those rails just go Tango Uniform. It's known to happen. Try slowly tightening the banjo a little more with an allen key, if that doesn't fix it, slowly back it off till it seals. I wouldn't go more then a half turn back.

As for the leak down the barrel. Since you purchased a oring kit and those banjo oring were bad, they're probably all bad. Do a full oring change on it. That should get you rolling.

If you already did a full oring replacement on it. Hold the trigger down when you shoot it. If it's still leaking when held, it's a bad on/off oring, replace them. If it only leaks with the trigger at rest then you have a bad PT oring or you need to get yourself a PT spacer kit to get it working.

You probably have a spring pack in the PT. If that's the case you can stretch it back out but it's just going to happen again so it's best to buy a PT spacer kit. Stretching it will get you back in the game till your spacer kit comes in.

Lastly, oil the hell out of it after you replace the orings.


Mags LOVE the oil

[Spider-TW]

Besides changing all of the o-rings, or at least checking them, lube the banjo bolt with some grease (just a film) before installing it. Some of those were noted to have a nasty habit of damaging the o-rings as they were screwed in. Also make sure you keep the tension off of the banjo (from the bolt spring pushing back on the valve) as you screw it in.

[Alpha {MWB}]

A friend of mine and i did grease up the spring pack in the back, so that is done. I will take a photo tonight to show what o rings i have left from the AGD parts kit, Because i did replace just about all of them.

What kind of grease should i use for that rear banjo spring (something i can go get at walmart)? Can this grease be used on most paintball products as well?

[Spider-TW]

A friend of mine and i did grease up the spring pack in the back, so that is done. I will take a photo tonight to show what o rings i have left from the AGD parts kit, Because i did replace just about all of them.

What kind of grease should i use for that rear banjo spring (something i can go get at walmart)? Can this grease be used on most paintball products as well?
Superlube synthetic grease is common in a lot of hardware and sporting goods stores around here. It's generally too thick for fast moving o-rings, but very good at preserving the rest. Being synthetic, it works well with synthetic oils. Any common synthetic marker grease should work well enough to get it in there.

[factoid]

Hit your rail with a bit of rubbing alcohol. You might have some junk left in there from your old o-rings...particles keeping them from sealing right. Grease will help with that too, but a good alcohol swabbing with a q-tip might help. I would probably give the banjo a wipe-down too, without the o-rings on it. Maybe there's some schmutz in the grooves.

That and a bit of grease should do the trick. Careful with putting on too much, though, it can work its way into your marker and make things sticky.

When you installed the new o-rings throughout the gun did you replace the powertube o-ring? If so did you give it a little hit of oil before going in? That helps with barrel leaks a ton.

How easily does the banjo go in and out of the rail?

[Tunaman]

Just so you guys know, there was a rail update for the classic RT. If you have one of the older rails you may have a hard time getting it to stop leaking...I have them here.

[Spider-TW]

Just so you guys know, there was a rail update for the classic RT. If you have one of the older rails you may have a hard time getting it to stop leaking...I have them here.
That's what I was trying to remember.

Can you tell us what the update did?

[Alpha {MWB}]

Wasn't able to get some grease tonight, my plan fell through after work.

I will be working on the gun as i can, but if it is a bad rail, it would be good to know so as not to waist time, lol. Give us your wisdom Tuna man. If there is any way i can tell by looking at it, or taking pictures, let me know.

I was going to take some pictures tonight, but i found out the camera we own is horrible.

The Banjo Screw goes in and out easy enough when pushing in on the valve. I wish i could do some more testing tonight, but the wife is in bed.

[Alpha {MWB}]

UPDATE:

Went to a teammates house and after much tinkering we fixed the "down the barrel" leak. Had forgoten to put an o ring in between the spacer on the lvl 7... :clap: With that solved we then focused on the Banjo leak. It was profuse. We did some o-ring switching and got it down to EVER SO SLIGHT!!! to the point where you can't hear the leak from a distance at all. You get close and you can hear it.

This leak is INSANELY small. Me and my teammate were debating on weather it was the banjo still or possibly the on off. Any idea's gents?

[factoid]

Do a dribble test. Air it up and run a trickle of water over the back of the valve. Look for where the bubbles start forming.

If they're coming from around where the rail and valve meet it's probably a leak in your on/off...if they're coming from near the banjo you're leaking from that.

[Alpha {MWB}]

Would submerging the back part of the gun be ok if it is gassed up?

[MANN]

yes you can put the whole marker under water.

[factoid]

Would submerging the back part of the gun be ok if it is gassed up?

As long as you don't have any electrical components it's fine. I usually do just a stream of water...I find it easier to find the bubbles that way. Especially if you use soapy water.

[Newt]

One (possibly all?) of the mag manual editions says to clean the marker using running water, ie: the shower or outright dunking. However, it adds that the marker MUST be gassed up.

[Alpha {MWB}]

One (possibly all?) of the mag manual editions says to clean the marker using running water, ie: the shower or outright dunking. However, it adds that the marker MUST be gassed up.
So no rust issues with this?

Haven't done the water test yet to be careful.

[factoid]

So no rust issues with this?

Haven't done the water test yet to be careful.


No, not really. I'm anal about drying off my markers after they get wet, but that's just me. The most you probably need to do is pull the valve out and dry off the rail and body interior.

But personally I pull the entire thing apart, and towel dry all of it. My house has hard water so I don't want that build-up in my marker.

[Alpha {MWB}]

Alright gents.... had some problems with my xvalve with rt on off that seemed to be the carriers fault, so we went from a 1.5 carrier to a 2.5 (the 2 felt just as tight). It shot alright, but my bolt would stick forward ever so often. So we stretched my spring out, no problem with that anymore and my rt effect is greater. But i am still having (it was a problem before the spring stretching) a slight leak down the barrel. If i oil it enough it isn't too bad a problem. Also sometimes if i put ever so slight a pressure on my trigger it will stop the leak. What should i do guys?

[Spider-TW]

Alright gents.... had some problems with my xvalve with rt on off that seemed to be the carriers fault, so we went from a 1.5 carrier to a 2.5 (the 2 felt just as tight). It shot alright, but my bolt would stick forward ever so often. So we stretched my spring out, no problem with that anymore and my rt effect is greater. But i am still having (it was a problem before the spring stretching) a slight leak down the barrel. If i oil it enough it isn't too bad a problem. Also sometimes if i put ever so slight a pressure on my trigger it will stop the leak. What should i do guys?
If you have level 10 shims in there, take one out.

[Alpha {MWB}]

That will solve the Barrel leak problem?

[factoid]

That will solve the Barrel leak problem?


Very well might.

Those shims basically just adjust how far forward the carrier sits inside the powertube.

That affects where the vent hole in the bolt stem meets up with the carrier o-ring. If there are too many shims it will make the carrier sit far enough back that it no longer seals that vent hole.

[Alpha {MWB}]

Did it, Took the shim out finially, and still have barrel leak issues. Any suggestions? Adding shims?

[Ando]

Send it to tuna bro. . Everything's been gone over for a barrel leak but is still causing you issues. Something is up with it that can't be fixed with out swapping out parts. Very well could be your bolt.

[Alpha {MWB}]

Send it to tuna bro. . Everything's been gone over for a barrel leak but is still causing you issues. Something is up with it that can't be fixed with out swapping out parts. Very well could be your bolt.
What is the price for sending it to him? shipping from 68046 and price for having each of 2 xvalves PERFECTLY TUNED to never chop, and 1 classic with lvl 7?

[Ando]

Not a single clue.

E-Mail him at

tunaman5@comcast.net

Or PM him here.

[Alpha {MWB}]

which is best?

[Ando]

E-mail I would assume. He always gives his E-mail out.

[Alpha {MWB}]

I think i will try going down a carrier size before i contact him. The 2.5 carrier flowed nicley and the 2 felt just like the 1.5 as far as stick goes by sliding it by hand. I am hoping this is the problem so then i can move on to getting my mag's lvl X's to be SUPER sensitive on paint... which i will need advice on as well...

[factoid]

I have an x-valve that has annoying leaks on anything bigger than a 0 carrier. It feels super tight on the bolt, but that's what it took to get it working.

As far as making your mag soft on paint it's all about custom fitting the longest possible spring.

Take your long grey spring and start cutting it down bit by bit. It probably won't even cycle at its full length. You'll pull the trigger and the bolt will stay put. Then you start cutting until your marker will start firing at a velocity of 270 FPS. You can go higher if you like. I think my x-valve starts cycling right about 265-270, which I like because if I am on a field with no chrono I know i'm not over a safe limit as long as I set the velocity as low as it goes while still cycling.

The level 10 tuning guide also recommends putting on a smaller carrier because the extra friction also reduces the bolt velocity, but by doing this you risk bolt stick. As long as you're using high quality lube like a KC Trouble Free and applying it frequently you won't have problems.

My advice is that if you have to lube your gun mid-day on the field make sure you're removing your barrel and dry firing 20 or 30 times, then swabbing your breech out afterwards. That excess oil will coat your barrel and make it shoot like you've had a barrel break.

[Alpha {MWB}]

I have an x-valve that has annoying leaks on anything bigger than a 0 carrier. It feels super tight on the bolt, but that's what it took to get it working.

As far as making your mag soft on paint it's all about custom fitting the longest possible spring.

Take your long grey spring and start cutting it down bit by bit. It probably won't even cycle at its full length. You'll pull the trigger and the bolt will stay put. Then you start cutting until your marker will start firing at a velocity of 270 FPS. You can go higher if you like. I think my x-valve starts cycling right about 265-270, which I like because if I am on a field with no chrono I know i'm not over a safe limit as long as I set the velocity as low as it goes while still cycling.

The level 10 tuning guide also recommends putting on a smaller carrier because the extra friction also reduces the bolt velocity, but by doing this you risk bolt stick. As long as you're using high quality lube like a KC Trouble Free and applying it frequently you won't have problems.

My advice is that if you have to lube your gun mid-day on the field make sure you're removing your barrel and dry firing 20 or 30 times, then swabbing your breech out afterwards. That excess oil will coat your barrel and make it shoot like you've had a barrel break.
THIS IS EXTREMELY USEFUL... seriously... As far as lubing, just do that through the asa right? (2-5 drops of autolube? when i run out of that i will start looking at others)(i have learned about taking the barrel off the HARD WAY lol)
The spring can just be stretched can't it? a friend told me to just stretch out the spring i had on it.

[Spider-TW]

Spring stretching is temporary. It fatigued to the short length over many cycles. Now you stretch it back out in one or two large cycles. The portions of the spring surface that deformed are no longer elastic, so it will wear down much faster.

[factoid]

THIS IS EXTREMELY USEFUL... seriously... As far as lubing, just do that through the asa right? (2-5 drops of autolube? when i run out of that i will start looking at others)(i have learned about taking the barrel off the HARD WAY lol)
The spring can just be stretched can't it? a friend told me to just stretch out the spring i had on it.

Stretching a spring is something you could do if you had a spring that was heavily compressed from regular use. For example if you had a red or gold spring that was now shorter than the end of the bolt you could stretch it a bit.

I don't think that works very well though. Stretched springs tend to recompres pretty quickly. It's good if you need it to get you buy for a day or two until you can get a replacement part though.

In general shortening a long spring by cutting it is better than lengthening a short spring by stretching it. It will last a lot longer too.

Lubing through the ASA is fine. I lube mine through the macroline elbow. Everyone has different opinions on what lube is best. I picked up a bottle of Outlast Synthetic which is the rebranded version of KC Troublefree. Autolube is fine, but supposedly this stuff is better. I haven't used it long enough to really tell a difference personally, but everyone has good things to say about it.

[Alpha {MWB}]

Thanks guys and merry CHRISTmas. It will be after Christmas before i can get back to you on this issue... i will let you know however...