Project EP mag ready for ano

[hill160881]

I have had a few PMs asking for some pictures of this build so here it is all done and ready for anodizing. This thing shoots lasers now that it has eyes


Specs
X-Valve
Ego Star frame with EP mod(done by Loguzzzzzz)
Ram (Clippard MPA-3, Machined/modified to fit by Loguzzzzzz)
Unknown LPR off of a dragonfly
UL RPG Recon rail (milled for eyes by Luke's Customs)
UL body(milled for eyes/extra detent by Luke's Customs)
Laser eyes(functional, Eyes and eye plates supplied by p8ntbal4me)
PMI gas through for grip
Freak barrel set
CP drop and on/off asa
SMC S070-SDG-32 Noid(good luck finding one in stock)

Extra parts to anodize for different configurations. It is good to have extra parts anodized with your marker. that way if you want to change something for a different kind of play, or something brakes, or you are tired of the way it looks, then all you have to do is bolt on a different piece.

Bullet LPR
RPG Pnumatic frame
Intelli frame
CP direct mount on/off asa
STI gass through

Photobucket album for this build
http://s971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/UL%20Ego-mag/

LPR setup (Tap size 1/8"x27 npt)
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/UL%20Ego-mag/MiscPneuWork007.jpg

The ram assembly
Instructions From Loguzzzzzz "I machine the frame out a little on top and then shave the sides of the MPA-3 until it fits inside with a little friction. Take the modified ram and place it into the frame and adjust it so that it sits low enough in the frame to clear the sear and high enough to clear the board. Then I remove the trigger rod from the sear and place the frame and rail, with sear, together to mark the frame(for the main valve screw) with the sear it in the cocked position and the end of the ram in the proper position. I try to keep 1/16" to 1/8" between the sear and the ram." I edited for clarity
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/UL%20Ego-mag/100_0099.jpg

Looking down through the rail and sear assembly at the ram and hose from the LPR
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/UL%20Ego-mag/100_0101.jpg

The set screw for the ram.(Tap size for ram screws 6-32)Also the front screws from the sticky grips also holds the ram, for extra measure.
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/UL%20Ego-mag/100_0107.jpg

Input hose from lpr(clear one) and the line to the ram(black one)
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/UL%20Ego-mag/MiscPneuWork010.jpg

Grip with noid(SMC Noid)
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/UL%20Ego-mag/100_0103.jpg

Another shoot of the noid
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/UL%20Ego-mag/100_0106.jpg

The marker with eyes mod, cover plates, and the laser light show.
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/UL%20Ego-mag/100_0252.jpg
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/UL%20Ego-mag/100_0239.jpg
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/UL%20Ego-mag/100_0244.jpg

Two videos to follow. Before the eye mod and after. I still need to shoot the after mod video, and it will have a gravity feed portion to show the eyes work like they should.

[RavishingEddie]

Who milled the eyes for you? Looks real professional

[tribalman]

Who milled the eyes for you? Looks real professional
tl;dr??

Specs
X-Valve
Ego Star frame with EP mod(done by Loguzzzzzz)
Unknown LPR off of a dragonfly
UL rail (milled for eyes by Luke's Customs)
UL body(milled for eyes/extra detent by Luke's Customs)

and yes hill, that is a sweet marker. can't wait to see the videos. makes me want to work on my tac. :clap:

[p8ntbal4me]

Laser eyes(functional, Eyes and eye plates supplied by p8ntball4me)

SMC S070-SDG-32 Noid(good luck finding one in stock)




I dont have them in stock,.. but I have an account with SMC,... I can get them back in stock.

[Spider-TW]

Nice frame and rail match on the shapes.

That PMI grip looks much better on your setup. It looked pretty ugly on my plain automag setup. I took off the bottom bump and recessed the threads a bit (they are bored the same all the way through). It's a stubby grip now, but still doesn't look like it on a plain vert adapter and short rail.

[hill160881]

I spent some time getting all the parts to match. It is hard to find parts without fancy milling on them, and when they have milling it almost never matches. It is also hard to find a non-drilled UL e-mag rail. I am probably going to have that pmi gas through milled smooth and straight to match the rest of the marker(cut some weight down to)

Also, this noid WILL hit 20 bps, which is where the board is caped atm, This was a concern with this noid because of the pressure limit and flow rates. put a quad ring in the top of the on off and some trigger tuning and a smooth non chuffing 20.

Videos as soon as my brother wakes up

Round one without eyes is done and caped at 15 bps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7kjFdloRQ8

Round two will have a gravity hopper caped at 20 bps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2qMlz30kRo

Round three is semi mode caped at 20 bps/ dye rotor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV9SovAXUGk

[hill160881]

All videos up and working :tard:

[Loguzzzzzz]

Very nice!

That makes me want to add the eyes to at least one of mine now. :cheers:

Long Live AGD!

_____________________________
http://home.comcast.net/~allfor114all/AoCa.gif

[Smoothice]

Very nice. I like those frames. they match an emag rail nicely.

[MANN]

SMC S070-SDG-32 Noid(good luck finding one in stock)


If you buy them in lots of 10 or more I can get them for ~25.00ea

[Xernex]

I dont have them in stock,.. but I have an account with SMC,... I can get them back in stock.

I'm in need or one...


and Hill you realize now you're gonna make me spend money getting eyes put on mine right?

[hill160881]

I'm in need or one...


and Hill you realize now you're gonna make me spend money getting eyes put on mine right?

Good we need more mags with eyes. It stops the chopping jokes :shooting:

[DevilMan]

I just have to say that it's a damn good thing you have a well stocked PB shop just down the road from ya!

:D

DM

[hill160881]

Also helps to know the owner personally :rofl:

[rseb4agze]

If you buy them in lots of 10 or more I can get them for ~25.00ea

If you decide to do a group buy, I'm open to purchasing one for that price :shooting:

You can put me down for (2) if that helps and I have cash ready..

[Xernex]

I'm down for one at that price too... I really wanna finish my build.

[Ando]

I'll take 2 for sure.

[hill160881]

Man these must be harder to get than I thought. :eek:

I will take two as well. Thats 7 so far. Only three to go.

[MANN]

If one of you want to purchase 10 and resell I will get them. I am not going to take the time to sell them tho.

[RavishingEddie]

If one of you want to purchase 10 and resell I will get them. I am not going to take the time to sell them tho.


I can't do 10 but I will do 5. I hope that makes it better :cheers:

[Xernex]

I'm down for somebody else doing the resell... heck I'd throw my cash in right now.

[MANN]

I will try to call them Monday.

[Xernex]

I will try to call them Monday.



Awesome, Thanks!

[grizzy]

Sweet gun!

Count me in for one of those solenoids as well, It's the last thing I need to finish my project.

[Xernex]

I finally finished mocking mine up today... gotta throw in the noid and get an lpr then I'm ready for the first test... Still gotta get an xvalve and ult... then a new body.. just haven't decided what I'm gonna use yet

[hill160881]

I finally finished mocking mine up today... gotta throw in the noid and get an lpr then I'm ready for the first test... Still gotta get an xvalve and ult... then a new body.. just haven't decided what I'm gonna use yet


I dont have a ult It slows down the recharge time(in my opinion)

[rseb4agze]

I will try to call them Monday.

Any undates on the solenoid :D

[Xernex]

Any undates on the solenoid :D


Talked to MANN yesterday, said it slipped his mind to call. He asked me to PM him and remind him tomorrow to make the call.

[rseb4agze]

Talked to MANN yesterday, said it slipped his mind to call. He asked me to PM him and remind him tomorrow to make the call.

Sweet.. Well keep us posted.. :headbang:

[MANN]

I just got off the phone with them, and they are checking to see how long it would take to get here. My cost is 33.21ea + 9.25% tax = 36.28ea (according to my seller they were 28ea last time I purchased, and they have gone up in price for some reason). I would think shipped they would be @ 40ea.

If you are still interested pm me. If we get enough interest Ill make a thread, and get an order organized.

[leloup]

That pmi foregrip looks familier. Looking good Hill.

[Xernex]

Hey guys, looks like MANN has a preorder for the noids up in the Dealers forums need to get 10 noids for the order...

Thread here:

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2741758#post2741758

:dance: :dance:

[rseb4agze]

Hey guys, looks like MANN has a preorder for the noids up in the Dealers forums need to get 10 noids for the order...

Thread here:

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2741758#post2741758

:dance: :dance:

What happen to the $25 price tag :confused: still a good price but $25 would so much nicer :D

[Xernex]

looks like his cost went up.... he's still only charging us a couple of bucks for his time, effort, and shipping... pretty flipping awesome if you ask me.

[rseb4agze]

looks like his cost went up.... he's still only charging us a couple of bucks for his time, effort, and shipping... pretty flipping awesome if you ask me.

I agree :cheers:

[Xernex]

Just got my mag back from luke today, put the eyes in and gassed it up, she's firing great... still gotta get an extra detent and she'll be done :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

[p8ntbal4me]

Just got my mag back from luke today, put the eyes in and gassed it up, she's firing great... still gotta get an extra detent and she'll be done :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:


Take the eye covers off and get some pictured of your eye install!

You gotta show details!! :)

[Xernex]

Its pretty nasty right now, didn't take time to solder the connections or shorten the wires like I should, but gimme a bit and I'll pull the camera and lights out.

[hill160881]

I wanted to see the limit on the Micro Noid from SMC. So here it is uncapped i dont know how fast but I think it is around 20 to 22. If someone can gold wave it that would be great. I think it will go faster if i tune the filters down a bit more, but why.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOkwAeI1Jd4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckVFmdhT1Ys

[leloup]

That's crazy. I don't think I got my egomag up to that level.

[hill160881]

I dont think my hopper will go any faster without turning its settings up. If that makes it go faster, that adjustment screw may only be an adjustment for stack tension. I tried turning down the filter settings but still no faster.

The filter is set at
clear 2ms
BIP 4ms
pull 4ms
release 4ms
dwell 13ms

[Xernex]

Wow.... :wow:

[luke]

wow, thats pretty sweet. :cheers:

[mpsd]

That's a really clean install. Great job there!

:cheers:

[hill160881]

Checked the sound clip and it looks like 23 BPS

[BigEvil]

Sweet. Great job with that beast. :cheers:

[punkncat]

I am seriously impressed.

[Flatliner333]

Holy Hell...That's what I'm talkin about. :cheers:

[hill160881]

The ram

.865" long
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Ego-Mag%20II/100_0324.jpg

The grove on the back is .430'' on the diameter and .130" in depth. The machining along the sides, off of the diameter is .523" in width. The factory inlet will be capped and not used. It is to long and wont fit properly with a 90 fitting.

http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/UL%20Ego-mag/100_0336.jpg


The noid must be taped or shrink wraped to avoid shorting the buttons it is next to. The housing of the noid is metal and will dammage the board if installed unshielded.
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/UL%20Ego-mag/100_0331.jpg

[68calsportz]

Damn hill. That is one of the quikest mags I have ever seen. Great job

[reckid1986]

I really like the way you have that 90* fitting on there, If you need plugs lmk ive got a few left.

[hill160881]

Thanks to all. I hope this thread will serve as a "how to" for others who want to do the same thing.

If anyone wants to know what they are getting into it will run you at least $900 and 3 months to do one like this, and then the anodizing cost. But it is well worth it. If you already have most of the components then it can be done cheep and fast, But patients is your best friend in a project like this.

Still have not decided on who will ano it yet but it will happen very soon. Maybe East cost ano

[ProblemKinder]

Good we need more mags with level10 bolts. It stops the chopping jokes :shooting:

fixed

[p8ntbal4me]

Did you end up taking the level 10 out of the valve and installing a level 7??

What are your eye settings? (BIP delay, bolt delay)

Keep track of how many shots you put through that solenoid. SMC gave me a 15-18cps per second cycle time on the life of the solenoid. Higher than that would prove them wrong.

Like everyone said,.. you did an awesome job with that build! :)

[hill160881]

I dont think my hopper will go any faster without turning its settings up. If that makes it go faster, that adjustment screw may only be an adjustment for stack tension. I tried turning down the filter settings but still no faster.

23BPS
The filter is set at
clear 2ms
BIP 4ms
pull 4ms
release 4ms
dwell 13ms


I got it to hit 26BPS with these filter settings though.
clear 2
BIP 2
pull 4
release 4
dwell 12

Still with the LX bolt. The L7 caused barrel brakes at high rates of fire.

I have put a full case of paint through it in on ramping un-capped.(over 22BPS)
Also i always leave it set at 20BPS semi and i can waver at close to 20 BPS with three fingers. It has maby 10 cases through it at this point at over 15BPS

Further more the cycle rate from SMC is around 12 to 20 ms at 60 max psi on this noid. So 12ms dwell into 1000 is 83.3333333. cycles per second(in theory). If the noid is really cycling at 12 ms. So the noid is way faster than the valve at around 35 cycles per second.

I am trying to brake this noid to see what it can handle. I thought at 26 BPS it was going to fail but Four hoppers later and my friend Zack V. wass still laughing like he was insane and still walking the trigger.
Nothing warms the cockles like the sound of a mag at stupid rates of fire. My next vid will be at even lower settings and hope to top it out at 30BPS eyes on.

Edit: O yes, dont forget those eye covers. :cheers:

Edit: i forgot to mention that i shortened the on off pin to get it to run at these speeds(with a quad upper oring). I dont remember the final measurement but it does not matter because it will be different for each mag.

[fishmishin]

I wanted to see the limit on the Micro Noid from SMC. So here it is uncapped i dont know how fast but I think it is around 20 to 22. If someone can gold wave it that would be great. I think it will go faster if i tune the filters down a bit more, but why.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOkwAeI1Jd4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckVFmdhT1Ys

Did you get that haircut yet?? :rolleyes:

[hill160881]

LOL...... Never

My last hair cut was around thanksgiving. You cant tell?

[fishmishin]

LOL, nah ! I didn't know if had seen the response on the video. The EP looks like it is rolling along very well. I think I'm going to try that solenoid on my next ep build.

[hill160881]

Well here is my last stress test, for speed. I ran out of air at the very end but no paint in the breach just in the barrel so the eyes were still working. Also some random person was walking toward the fire for some reason. i just make 26 BPS but it is about 25 average. I will be putting the settings back to super filtered never ever chop.
Settings here are
psp nu-capped
BIP 1 ms
clear 1 ms
dwell 12 ms

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoQsSpacNp0

[hill160881]

I am doing a how to thread complete with pictures of every step of the process. http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=254702

[Smoothice]

Also some random person was walking toward the fire for some reason. ]


"comin thru guys" :tard:

[Flatliner333]

Has anyone else been having trouble getting on YouTube or is it just me?

[hill160881]

Ya but my internet is uber slow.

[hill160881]

Well after a test with a completely stock X-valve, 18 bps was about all i could get out of the noid.

So what is the difference between the one i shoot at 26bps and a stock x-valve?

It is the on off pin and a quad ring. A stock pin is .750". I have shortened mine to .710" and added a upper quad o-ring.

If the marker was a mechanical it would rt out of control at 850PSI with the on off pin this short.

After my second build i noticed that i had a hard time getting the noid to trip the sear with a stock x-valve. So after shortening the on off pin and installing the quad o-ring it has no problem shooting at 20+ bps

A side note is that i use slick honey ON EVERY PART OF THE VALVE. Not just the reg spring stack. Slick honey will not gum up things like dow grease will. In fact it is quieter than without it and i suspect the bolt/power tube will last longer with grease on them than without.

Just a warning. If you shorten your on off pin without measuring it first, and without an extra one for backup you run the risk of shortening it to much. Then your marker wont work at all. So it is a good idea to buy SEVERAL .750" on off pins before attempting this

Both the pins and the quad o-rings are available from Tunaman

[mpsd]

Well after a test with a completely stock X-valve, 18 bps was about all i could get out of the noid.

So what is the difference between the one i shoot at 26bps and a stock x-valve?

It is the on off pin. A stock pin is .750". I have shortened mine to .710" and added a upper quad o-ring.

If the marker was a mechanical it would rt out of control at 850PSI with the on off pin this short.

After my second build i noticed that i had a hard time getting the noid to trip the sear with a stock x-valve. So after shortening the on off pin and installing the quad o-ring it has no problem shooting at 20+ bps

A side note is that i use slick honey ON EVERY PART OF THE VALVE. Not just the reg spring stack. Slick honey will not gum up things like dow grease will. In fact it is quieter than without it and i suspect the bolt/power tube will last longer with grease on them than without.

Just a warning. If you shorten your on off pin without measuring it first, and without an extra one for backup you run the risk of shortening it to much. Then your marker wont work at all. So it is a good idea to buy SEVERAL .750" on off pins before attempting this

Both the pins and the quad o-rings are available from Tunaman

Are you sure it's only the lenght itself? I thought that you could have that difference from using a regular RT on/off (slower) or a ULT (faster).

[hill160881]

I have not tried the ult. I dont think it can recharge this fast but i may be wrong. The RT is what gives it the ability to recharge this fast.

Shortening the on off pin was to allow the use of a quad ring in the top of the on off. This reduces the pressure needed to fully activate the on off assembly(shutting off the air flow). so the noid and ram dont have to work so hard.

It also works fine at a length of .725" but not as smoothly. It seems to be harder for the ram to get the job done.


I have toyed with every length and this seems to do what i want

anybody got a ult to shoot at 20bps? If they are that fast i will try one out.

Also the bullet reg i am using is crap. I am getting an AKA soon.

[Flatliner333]

Ok for those of us who have had no experience with quad O Rings (me) please explain how they work, what on/offs and valves they can be used with and the advantage of using them. I assume they are not used with ULT's . When using a ULT does adding shims to it mimmick the effect of shortining your pin ?

[hill160881]

quad rings are stock in e-mag valves. and can be made to work in an x-valve. i use one in my clasic but i have an rt on off in it.

The quad ring goes in the top of the on off(replacing the #6 o-ring that is inside of the #10o-ring) so when the marker is fired the pin moves to the top shutting air flow to the shot chamber off.

Quad rings require less surface pressure to maintain a seal(due to increased surface area). So it takes less pressure from the lpr, and through the noid to complete the cycle.

The reason to shorten the pin is because the quad ring has a taller usable cross section than a round o-ring(because its square). so the pin needs to be shorter because it makes contact with the quad ring(and seals off the shot chamber) in a shorter distance.

If you shorten the pin to much the shot chamber will remain hot and the bolt may not reset. It becomes fully auto.

Put a quad ring in an x-valve without shortening the pin and it wont even go off because the shot chamber is not getting any charge.

Just the way i think about it, and i could be wrong.

The ult reduces the RT effect so i have never used one.

flatliner does your EM setup use a ult? I am curious how fast a ult will recharge.

[Ando]

X-Rings, also known as Quad-Rings®, can be used in a wide variety of static and dynamic sealing applications.

The four-lobed design provides twice the sealing surface in comparison to a standard o-ring. The double-seal action requires less squeeze to maintain an effective seal. This reduction in squeeze means less friction and improved seal life.Quoted from another site.
http://www.marcorubber.com/images/pictures/xring1.gif
http://www.zdspb.com/media/tech/oring_quadring.JPG



One reason why Quads are uses in Emags

This reduction in squeeze means less friction
Same reason hill used it for his egomag build. It would have required more pressure to activate the on/off with a regular oring

[Flatliner333]

Yes I am using a ULT on my home made E frame. I know it was doing 18 bps no problem on semi auto on a stock board with no ramping capabilities but I'm sure it could do more. So what is the stock on off in X Valves and E Mags...an RT ? So quads are not for ULT's but only RT's correct ?

[Ando]

Correct....hmmm....quad in a ult...do they make them that small

[hill160881]

I will have to try installing a ult and see if it can keep up with the RT on off. that mite be the next video i do if it works. It would also allow me to turn down the pressure on the noid. If that even makes a difference in the noids life.

I would not recommend the bullet LPR regs at all for this noid. they are fast but there consistancy is all over the place with the pressure it puts out. it may have damaged the noid already. i wont know until either one of the LPRs i ordered arrives. I got an AKA and a palmer pebble to try them out. but i here that the pebble is the best at very low pressure.

Anyone try one of these LPRs at such a low pressure?

Also anyone know how to test the ram fittings for a leak? i need to command the noid to stay on just for a second, so i can here the leak.
Maybe three AA batteries directly attached to the noid? That would be 4.5 volts and the noid is a 5 volt unit.

[211]

a drop of dishsoap on the fitting, then fire
if it makes a bubble, you have a leak

[hill160881]

I will try this. this seems easier then my convoluted idea. Thanks


Update:

Off to Arnolds metal finishing for the anodizing.

http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/UL%20Ego-mag/100_0453.jpg

http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/UL%20Ego-mag/100_0861.jpg