Ego/Etek Mag conversion how to

[hill160881]

Edit:
The oldest post i could find referring to what we call the Ego/pneu Mag design. Punisher's Customs did it first as best as I can find.
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=22012
I would also like to give credit to"latches109" for the idea and the original how to thread. Thanks for this easy to build design. It has led to many different custom mags.
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=211255&highlight=emaggo /Edit

The purpose of this thread is to show how i am doing my ETEK-EP-Mag conversion. Keep in mind this is the first time i am performing the mod and welcome any advise from the pros on what i am doing wrong. I have a fine example done by Loguzzzzzz to guide me though. All measurements and instructions are specific to the parts i am using. This ETEK frame is almost identical to the star frame done by Loguzzzzzz
So here we go

My last build thread
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=253895&highlight=arnolds+metal

X Valve with LX bolt.
ETEK 2 frame with stock board.
RPG Recon Rail
Still going with the SMC-SDG-32 noid also the SMC SY113A-SG-PM3 will fit and handles higher pressure.
Ram (Clippard MPA-3, Machined/modified to fit by Loguzzzzzz)
LPR Palmer Pebble
For the eyes I am going to suggest people look into hidden Ego eyes developed by me and offered by Luke's Customs. Here is the thread to there development.
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2760367#post2760367
And here is Luke's website.
http://www.lukescustoms.com/page0018.htm


http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Ego-Mag%20II/100_0373.jpg

They make a nice couple.
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Ego-Mag%20II/100_0374.jpg

Tools that you mite not have. You will need other tools but these are the ones you will most likely need to buy.
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Ego-Mag%20II/100_0406.jpg

First off is laying out the ram location and set screws. Drill for the set screws with a 3/32 dril bit
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Ego-Mag%20II/100_0376.jpg

Then you take out some material so the ram will fit with a little friction. You will need to take a bit off the width of the rail and also dremel out the area circled to get the fitting on the bottom of the ram to fit
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Ego-Mag%20II/100_0380.jpg

Then tap the set screw holes with a 6-32 tap.
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Ego-Mag%20II/100_0375.jpg

Then set the ram in its general location
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Ego-Mag%20II/100_0386.jpg
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Ego-Mag%20II/100_0390.jpg

[hill160881]

Next is locating the main valve screw
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Ego-Mag%20II/100_0397.jpg

Then drill the hole and level the area where the main valve screw sets. Once this is done the marker should bolt together. The area around the main valve screw can be cleaned up later.
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Ego-Mag%20II/100_0401.jpg
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Ego-Mag%20II/100_0395.jpg

The Ram
It has been modified by loguzzzzzz in this manor so it will fit into the Planet Eclipse frames.(with a bit of help from a dremel)
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Ego-Mag%20II/100_0324-1.jpg
View from the back of the ram
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Ego-Mag%20II/100_0327-1.jpg

The Noid
First you need to attach the noid wires to the plug from a etek noid. They are color coded.
Here is a video on how to do this And the soldering iron i use
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Ego-Mag%20II/100_0418.jpg
Make sure you slip a piece of shrink tubing on before soldering the plug on
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBJsI0rhoRs
Once soldered wrap a piece of e-tape around one wire, then the other, making sure that they will never toutch, Then slip the shrink tubing over the tape and shrink it
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Ego-Mag%20II/100_0410.jpg
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Ego-Mag%20II/100_0412.jpg

Here is the order for the ports on the noid. IMPORTANT: remember to wrap the noid with e-tape to insulate it from shorting something on the board.
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Ego-Mag%20II/100_0414.jpg

[hill160881]

Now lets put it in the frame conecting a small piece of line to the vent and a piece that reaches the ram. Note that the tubing going to the ram from the noid needs to be as short as possible and should not exceed 2.5"(that is how long mine is)
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Ego-Mag%20II/100_0415.jpg

Once done put a battery in and make sure the noid works.
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Ego-Mag%20II/100_0417.jpg

If you remove the sear rod correctly and gently you can reuse it if you want to go back to Mechanical
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Temp/Projects/102_1173.jpg

If you already have a lpr ready to go then bolt it on and go. Like this.
<iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/jg-Aq-jujEs?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
It is worth it to note that i made no adjustments after assembly. So if you follow these measurements then you will most likely be done

Here is this mod ripping
<iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ckVFmdhT1Ys?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/NOkwAeI1Jd4?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[hill160881]

Just a side note on the LPR and the noid. If you get a shot when you air up the marker or when you degas it, then your LPR is not any good. Nor is another just like it.

This is caused by a temporary spike in the pressure that is intense enough to push past the noid and trip the sear. My bullet reg and some other very small reg from a pneu mag did this. This will Damage the noid. Over pressure is not good for any noid. I switched to a Palmer Pebble, and problem solved. Also the Pebble will handle 1500 psi input and is CO2 friendly. It is also faster than the micro rock that palmer makes, according to there website.

I also think this is why i can get this noid to cycle at such high rates of fire without damaging it. This is a theory, but it makes sense. If i am going to operate this noid at its max pressure then the LPR better not jump up 5psi, not ever. The LPRs i am using seem to be very accurate, and very very fast.

All my resources for building insane mags.
Fittings, valves, noids......
http://www.clippard.com/store/


Fittings, hose, orings......
http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/cart/

Orings and Quad-orings(x-oring)
http://www.theoringstore.com/

Lots of stuff, paintball and do it yourself
http://www.airsoldie...&Store_Code=AOS

Universal boards
http://www.scenariod...s.com/index.htm

Plugs of all types and any electronics related items
http://www.digikey.c...5887ecsdabplkst

Mag parts
http://www.automags.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=22
http://www.automags.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=11

Custom machining and other services.
http://www.lukescustoms.com/page0018.htm

[reckid1986]

Thats a nice how-to. Good Job

[shadow102]

what screw did you end up using in place of the field strip thumb screw at the back of the frame?

[hill160881]

Same as in the main body screw, only longer. There is a pic of it in the tread somewhere.

[hill160881]

Well i decided to go with another Star frame with this build and now it is only waiting the for-grip from Venomous Designs. Note that i am using a rather different reg. No shots when i air it up or down so far.
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Ego-Mag%20II/100_0626.jpg

Its test run/maiden voyage. I love these even with no eyes.
<iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-SjWlR33rvE?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Here are the filter settings I use to hit 25 bps

The filter is set at
clear 2ms
BIP 4ms
pull 4ms
release 4ms
dwell 13ms

[2BAD4U]

have you considered building & selling the frames ?

[hill160881]

Yes but i dont advertise and the last two did not last long when they went on the market. The last one lasted 10 min. Since i cant make a living at it and i enjoy making things i dont try to make a bunch of money. It is hard to sell something for like new prices when it is a modified part, no mater how good it looks. Especially when there is the VER frame and the other frames companies here on ao make brand new.

The starframes are pricey at $300 and up when modified, since they are nearly impossible to get without getting an entire marker. However the etek 2 frames are more affordable at 200 and up when modified.

[hill160881]

I found the conectors for the noid to the etek/ego boards It is a ZHR-2, and the eye conector is a ZHR-4, 1.5mm

These are the part #'s for digikey
The inserts: 455-1130-1-ND
The two prong plug: 455-1366-ND
The four prong plug: 455-1202-ND

Be sure to get the right # of inserts for the plug. I would get several extras, of both inserts and plugs, as you may mess up a few in the attempt.

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?lang=en&site=US&WT.z_homepage_link=hp_go_button&KeyWords=zhr-2&x=0&y=0

[leloup]

Nice build. The black frame looks much cleaner.

I want to say that it is PTP that has a patent on pneumatic frames, which is why we haven't had many "how to"s in the past. I'm not dogging on you or anything, but offering to sell your wares may be violating patent law.

[hill160881]

That may be true, but i doubt i take enough of the market to concern them.


New Information on the Pressure the noid should run at with a RT on off correctly modified. It is from 75 to 80 psi.

[hill160881]

The insert.
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Temp/Projects/100_1054.jpg

This is how it will attach to the wire.
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Temp/Projects/100_1048.jpg

Once connected
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Temp/Projects/100_1050.jpg

We have been looking at what i will call the bottom of the insert, now lets look at the top of it. There is a barb sticking up close to the plug end on the top. It goes through a notch in the top of the plug. The picture shows it as best as i can. Does this Make any sense?
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Temp/Projects/100_1060-1.jpg


A video on how to install the plug insert into the plug. Hard to see but you will get the idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cHUmZ703ik


And when its done
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Temp/Projects/100_1053.jpg
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Temp/Projects/100_1070.jpg

[kwik175]

Up for all the help this has provided me on my conversion. Thanks Hill

[kcombs9]

what size threads are the barbs for the ram? I want to put my inlet on like yours.

[hill160881]

10/32 :)

[kcombs9]

Really? Thought it was smaller.

For the same size as the one In the back or for what you used?

10/32 is hugh

[kcombs9]

Well its not as hugh as I thought your right hill thanks!

[hill160881]

:cheers:

[mr_corean]

What size hose did you use for the noid?

[Automag ReTro]

http://palmer-pursuit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_16&products_id=73

That's the stuff.

[BenoitOWN]

What is the required crimp tool is we want to do it without plyers? One that not too pricy :P
Can we use the stock wire with the board instead of using a extension? I have them long enoufh already :)

[OneSelfLost]

Don't know much about the Ego's.. Are those the same plugs used for the E-mag solenoid? If not, would you happen to know the part number?

[BenoitOWN]

Suceeded to instal the plug :)
After I get a longuer screw and ram hole for q.e.v I will only have tubing and fine tuning left

[flood152]

So I have installed the crimps on the solenoid wire...is there an easy way to tell which side of the plug the black and red wires are supposed to go into?

[captian pinky]

it doesn't matter either way will work

[flood152]

Thanks man...It's great to have such an old thread still be so helpful.

[flood152]

So I'm about finished and I'm having some problems getting the ram to trip the sear. I've cleared out plenty of room in the frame to give the ram ample room away from the sear and it struggles to trip the sear. Out of twenty trigger pulls I'd say it fires one time. I have an xvalve and an evalve with the same results. I also have a .712 and .750 pin and same results with both. Any ideas or advice? Thanks

[hill160881]

Turn up the pressure a bit on the LPR.

[GEE TEE]

I've just swapped a ULT X-valve for an RT Pro on my own Egomag

Was surprised how much I had to increase LP input to get it to trip the RT on/off

[flood152]

Before I go off buying a ULT I just want to make sure that's not what I already have. I'm really having trouble tripping my sear and I'm hoping a ULT will do the trick. Here is a pic of what is currently in my valve.

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/5103/onoffvalve.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/43/onoffvalve.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[knownothingmags]

this is not a ULT. :)

[GEE TEE]

That looks like a regular solid body RT Pro or X valve on off

This is a stripped down ULT on off

http://www.automagsuk.com/otherimages/ULT5.JPG

More info here...

http://www.automagsuk.com/classicandrt.html

[flood152]

The ULT did the trick. After many months of searching for pieces and trial and error building I finished the gun and it works flawless. Thanks for this thread Hill!

[RT Lover]

do u still think the said noid and reg is the best way to go? im reading this i want to do my best to not break anything should i get the SMC SY113A-SG-PM3.? air solider is out of them can i get them somewhere else? could i use the ego noid on air solider and would the be better? running a ego mag will the noid break after time or will the bigger one last?anything else to help?



Just a side note on the LPR and the noid. If you get a shot when you air up the marker or when you degas it, then your LPR is not any good. Nor is another just like it.

This is caused by a temporary spike in the pressure that is intense enough to push past the noid and trip the sear. My bullet reg and some other very small reg from a pneu mag did this. This will Damage the noid. Over pressure is not good for any noid. I switched to a Palmer Pebble, and problem solved. Also the Pebble will handle 1500 psi input and is CO2 friendly. It is also faster than the micro rock that palmer makes, according to there website.

I also think this is why i can get this noid to cycle at such high rates of fire without damaging it. This is a theory, but it makes sense. If i am going to operate this noid at its max pressure then the LPR better not jump up 5psi, not ever. The LPRs i am using seem to be very accurate, and very very fast.

[GEE TEE]

Bigger solenoids won't fit inside the frame - that's why the SMC one is popular

You could use a bigger noid if you install it somewhere else such as a hollowed out forgrip

RS components sell the SMC solenoid too - sourced a couple from them in Europe

[hill160881]

Actually the SMC SY series noid will fit and handles more pressure. SMC noid SY113A-SH-PM3 it will fit in the etek frames easier than a star frame but will fit in both while it will bulge the grip a bit. These noids don't make for the cleanest install but are way stronger.

[knownothingmags]

i have one of the noids from the #3 post barnd new never used.
let me know if that is what you are looking for.
:cheers:

[GEE TEE]

I'm interested in that SMC noid if you'll ship to UK?

[GEE TEE]

Actually the SMC SY series noid will fit and handles more pressure. SMC noid SY113A-SH-PM3 it will fit in the etek frames easier than a star frame but will fit in both while it will bulge the grip a bit. These noids don't make for the cleanest install but are way stronger.

Hi Hills, would this alternative SMC noid work ok?

Seems to have a high flow rate, slightly higher max pressure and can operate up to 20 cps http://www.airsoldier.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AOS&Product_Code=SMC-SY113A-SG-PM3&Category_Code=SOLENOIDS

***Edit***

I've realised it's the same unit - just the flying lead length is shorter at 300mm

[RT Lover]

well i dont want the grips to bulge out, what is the best choice and will it last or will i be replacing noids all the time? i want to build it and not have to worry about the noid can at any time, i have a micro rock i will b using.

[GEE TEE]

We have built at least 6 EP mag hybrids over here using the SMC micro noid. All performed really well and I'm still shooting my Egomag and Creedmag regularly. We hit 17bps on the Creed hybrid but that's probably pushing your luck to be honest. My Egomag hit 15bps on a similar set-up using a micro rock. I think bothe have had at least 5 cases each through them without problems. THe LPR spiking may be an issue - as Hills mentioned this can damage them as they are only rated to 75psi. I use a ULT trigger kit on mine to reduce the pressure needed. It makes a big difference to how much you need to crank the LP up compared to the RT on/off, which should help long term reliability.


http://youtu.be/3EGqPm0hngw

[RT Lover]

dude.... i would be just fine with what u have in the video lol... im not chasing super speed (yet lol) i just want to know that im ok with the noid and its not a time bomb.... i dont want to play a few times and then have to put a new noid in and when u say 5 cases is that all u can get? with my micro rock u think thats good enough... if anything i can get a different one but need the ult for sure i see.. hhhmmm if i would get a few years on it a noid that would be cool. now how can i stop from getting the air spikes? on/ off and slowly turn on the air? and if i keep it at 15 bps and not go over will the noid last a lot longer and the possibly of it breaking go way down? i thought the ego mag mod was popular but i really havent seen any talking about noids

i have a booyaah piranha and it rips lol


thanks man!

[GEE TEE]

They have both shot 5+ cases each so far without any problems. I've Run an RTPro valve on the egomag for a while with stock on/off, and it took a lot more pressure to cycle the ram. The ULT is the way to go as it'll make the noid work at less pressure. I'm going to give the SMY noid that Hills mentioned a go as they are rated to higher pressure and flow more air. Creed mag maxed out at 17bps and started to short stroke (chuff) if we went any higher, but that feeds air to noid via a modified LP reg in Creed foregrip. I only shoot this at 10-12 bps on walkons anyway due to site rules. As for spiking... not sure if backing the LP reg out to shut of flow before airing up would help?


http://youtu.be/OiaxRjJRoIE

[RT Lover]

They have both shot 5+ cases each so far without any problems. I've Run an RTPro valve on the egomag for a while with stock on/off, and it took a lot more pressure to cycle the ram. The ULT is the way to go as it'll make the noid work at less pressure. I'm going to give the SMY noid that Hills mentioned a go as they are rated to higher pressure and flow more air. Creed mag maxed out at 17bps and started to short stroke (chuff) if we went any higher, but that feeds air to noid via a modified LP reg in Creed foregrip. I only shoot this at 10-12 bps on walkons anyway due to site rules. As for spiking... not sure if backing the LP reg out to shut of flow before airing up would help?


http://youtu.be/OiaxRjJRoIE

thats overkill!!! lol i guess when i can smy is the one that wont bulge the grip? if anything do like a emag front or even a VD front grip and put the bigger one up front

that creed mag is sweet, nice work

how can i tell what frame i have?

[GEE TEE]

This is solenoid used in all my EP builds so far including Creedmag. It's only 21mm long x 11.5mm deep x 7mm thick, and it fitted in the frame no problem
http://www.airsoldier.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AOS&Product_Code=SMC-S070C-SDG-32&Category_Code=SOLENOIDS

87376

This is the Ego 5/6 frame that's used on the majority of Egomag conversions
http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab291/banzai_sd/Mobile%20Uploads/utf-8BSU1HMDAwMDktMjAxMDEwMDMtMjMwNi5qcGc.jpg

This is the Ego 5/6 star frame with built in snatch grip and dovetail
http://www.compulsivepaintball.com/mmCOMPULSIVEPAINTBALL/Images/MEDIUM/Ecps06StarFrameDustBk.jpg

Etek frame
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/4242/img00436201007021432.jpg
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2424/img00437201007021432.jpg

and Etek star frame
http://www.compulsivepaintball.com/mmCOMPULSIVEPAINTBALL/Images/MEDIUM/etek_starframe.jpg

All of which I've seen used on EP conversions and plenty of others can be made to work

[RT Lover]

etek frame, i like it... i guess i could switch it to pneu if i dont like it or if it blows noids, but since i would have the bps tuned under 15 as much as we know i should b fine?

[livebrando]

This is what I did for my egomag using etek star frame. Really easy to do using Hill's instructions. However, I'm having difficulties doing it on my UL frame. Maybe you guys can help me.

87453

[RT Lover]

Wat noid did u use?

[livebrando]

The one from airsoldier, SMC S070C-SDG-32. It's the same one that Renie uses too in his EP builds. Reason for the shiny is clear heatshrink tubing. Did you get a frame yet? If not, I have an extra Ego 6 Dark frame I was going to list in the sales threads.



-Brandon

[RT Lover]

I have a set up just need to mill for thr ram and need a noid and lpr.... worried that I will blow thru noids hill had posted its easy to do? Is a dremmel best to use to mill the inside the frame for the ram... I want it to look good!

[livebrando]

I used a dremel with carbide burr bits and found it to work very well on the soft aluminum and the ram. You want slow speeds. At some point you'll have to shave the ram to fit.

One issue I had is drilling and tapping the bottom of the ram. You need to drill the hole very close to the edge or you'll have a useless ram. here's the picture of one I messed up.

87454

[RT Lover]

can a Excal/Intimidator/ Shocker Mac 43 Solenoid AKA- Mac 43 Solenoids work on a ego mag? Solenoid Info:
4 -way mac solenoid 43A-AAA-RFEJ-0BL 5volts 4.7watts 120psi max m3 tapped 6in tinned leads

[renie]

can a Excal/Intimidator/ Shocker Mac 43 Solenoid AKA- Mac 43 Solenoids work on a ego mag? Solenoid Info:
4 -way mac solenoid 43A-AAA-RFEJ-0BL 5volts 4.7watts 120psi max m3 tapped 6in tinned leads

yes they can be used, they cycle fairly quick aswell if I remember correctly, its all down to size really the smc noids are tiny and fit with in with no mods

[RT Lover]

yes they can be used, they cycle fairly quick aswell if I remember correctly, its all down to size really the smc noids are tiny and fit with in with no mods

fit in the frame? one doesnt need to put it in the frame do they? i mean if they r on another high end marker surely it should b enough??

[RT Lover]

bump

[Syko89]

Has anyone used this noid yet? http://www.airsoldier.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AOS&Product_Code=SMC-SY113A-SG-PM3&Category_Code=SOLENOIDS

[BigEvil]

Has anyone used this noid yet? http://www.airsoldier.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AOS&Product_Code=SMC-SY113A-SG-PM3&Category_Code=SOLENOIDS

Yes, there is one that is Normally-open and one that is normally closed. If I remember correctly, you need the one that is NORMALLY CLOSED.