Foamie vs. No Foamie

[RogueFactor]

Been doing lots of tinkering these last few years while the economy has been bad. I havent really decided on this one feature though.

The good- The foamie supposedly makes the bolt-strike softer on paint. This sounds great in theory, but Ive noticed that when I use a bolt without a foamie it works just as well.

The bad- Foamies come off. For some its a major annoyance, for others its of little consequence. They are also a consumable, so you must buy more. Great for the manufacturer I guess, annoying for the customer.

Here is a pic of the v1 ULE bolt I created a few years ago now. More info can be found here: http://www.pblegion.com/showthread.php?t=2797 . I made it without a foamie for the purpose of simplicity.

So now the question is...do you prefer a foamie or no foamie on your bolts?

http://www.pblegion.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=112&stc=1&d=1219877722

[pillage]

Is ANS still making level7 bolts?

[hill160881]

Foamie is better at higher rates of fire. ;)

[koleah]

The Kaye decreed a foamie.

Therefore: a foamie.

[Frizzle Fry]

Is ANS still making level7 bolts?

No, but that's a good thing. They're QC and business ethics have both gone down the tubes.

[SSP-SheiK]

I am sorry, but i am confused... isnt that a picture of a venturi bolt?

[going_home]

I dont think any other markers have a foamie.
I wouldnt think it really matters.

I've found that I experience roll outs like a cocker if it comes off the bolt.
Last time I lost a foamie I realized it because of the roll outs.
But Gorilla Glue super glue works great (less filling).

:ninja:

[cougar20th]

These gonna be Aluminum or stainless?

[chinstrap]

I can't tell a difference between foamie and no foamie, except that when I'm using a foamie, I worry about the foamie coming off. Therefore, when I'm not using a foamie, I worry less.

Verdict: no foamie.

What I would really like is a foamie that was held on by something other than glue. Maybe a foamie with a screw in it that you screwed into the bolt or something.

[cockerpunk]

you need to make sure the bolt prevents roll back. foam/softface stuff is great for that. i suspect it has less to do with "bolt strike" as much as the ball always being in contact with the bolt face.

[Chronobreak]

I find the foamie is not needed on the lvlx bolt, except if it isnt there the additional gap allows for more paint movement in the breech, potentially causing issues.

a delrin piece of plastic as a spacer or replacement for the foamie works jsut fine. maybe even ebtter since it can be slightly more rigid and left in longer with a tighter fit

[hill160881]

Ok i want the bolt as light as possible and a foamie is lighter. So if the whole point is weight, then a foamie is a must, think of the material that has to be removed to use a foamie. :ninja:

[wimag]

not interested in going to your site to look at info you should post here if seriously interested in public opinion.
Other than that looks like any other worthless ANS / venturi type bolt that is good at removing money from people who do not know any better.

Foamies add nothing and once they blow off the bolt means less I will have to fuss with.

[Zone Drifter]

I've experienced busting balls just from the force of the bolt on paint using a stock lvl 7 steel bolt. Once i used the one with a foamie I found that I never broke a ball due to the force of the bolt. Even my friend who has a sydarm was having the same problem with some paint, but once he put a foamie bolt in, problem went away.

It's better for softer paint, is what im saying. If you get your paint at walmart, you'll be fine, because that junk never breaks, lol.

[hill160881]

not interested in going to your site to look at info you should post here if seriously interested in public opinion.
Other than that looks like any other worthless ANS / venturi type bolt that is good at removing money from people who do not know any better.

Foamies add nothing and once they blow off the bolt means less I will have to fuss with.


:tard:

[RogueFactor]

The v1.0 bolt was created with Venturi porting and as a result will look similar to any other bolt with Venturi porting.

For those interested in reading about the Venturi effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venturi_effect

[pillage]

If you are so dead set on going foamieless, just make a solid insert for the level ten and either secure it with a snap ring or pin. If you want to make the insert stainless, it can be silver soldered into place easily enough. The venturi effect is more effective in non compressible liquids, not compressible gases. So are you trying to increase the Delta-P with your bolt, if so to what point?



No, but that's a good thing. They're QC and business ethics have both gone down the tubes.
I guess I got one of their midweek production ones then as it works like a level 7. I had a couple of ANS in regs, they sucked big time. Business ethics in a paintball business......really. Please tell me more. :rofl:

[RogueFactor]

The venturi effect is more effective in non compressible liquids, not compressible gases. So are you trying to increase the Delta-P with your bolt, if so to what point?
The bolt piston made it necessary to design and test it this way than a de Laval nozzle more suitable for ideal gases and acts as a Venturi tube at low speeds.

All discussion for a different thread. This is just a simple foamie vs. no foamie question.

[Dend78]

regular foamie that is lost within a day no go, but something to keep the ball from rolling around in the breech yes. such as stated before a piece of delrin to take up the space would keep the weight low and fix the roll around

[Frizzle Fry]

I guess I got one of their midweek production ones then as it works like a level 7. I had a couple of ANS in regs, they sucked big time. Business ethics in a paintball business......really. Please tell me more. :rofl:

I'm not saying they were any better than a stock lvl 7 - I haven't done the testing, I don't know, and I haven't noticed anything spectacular. All I'm saying is that back when they were making bolts, they didn't come out unpolished wrecks with interiors full of burrs and exteriors covered in machining marks.

As for business ethics - they're responsible for the extremely dangerous (and extremely unlicensed) non-regulating GA Myth clones, and a bunch of unlicensed CP knockoff parts with their signature "quality" finish with fake logos and decals... That's a bit more than the usual minor patent violation. Hell, when you order from them and they don't have what you ordered, they just throw something similar in the box!

[Ando]

Foamies are pointless, I've never had an issue with it not being on the bolt. All but one of my markers still has the foamie installed and I've never experienced roll outs or any of what's been said here. I see no use for them and re-gluing them is just a pain and :tard: Only thing I've had success with when re-gluing them is epoxy. Even then they tend to pop off after a year give or take.

@ hill160881 & cougar20th
There's no way you can make the bolt out of anything but some sort of harden metal or steal. Even a mild steal or 7075 aluminum will get destroyed in time. Aluminum or any other soft metal will get eaten up by the harden spring and sear. The Venom bolt (which was made out of TI) had the best design when it came to weight reduction, probably the best aftermarket bolt period for the mag. I still have mine from back in the mid 90's and still going strong. :cool: I heard they were prone to snap where the sear catches but I've only seen one in a picture so I'm not sure how truthful those statements were.

@Chronobreak

a delrin piece of plastic as a spacer or replacement for the foamie works jsut fineHave you tried it?

@Frizzle Fry
God!!! Your such a hater. :p

Get off your ANS soapbox already. :rofl:

We get it, you don't like them :clap:

[211]

never had a problem with the old school hard nose bolts

[SSP-SheiK]

The v1.0 bolt was created with Venturi porting and as a result will look similar to any other bolt with Venturi porting.

For those interested in reading about the Venturi effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venturi_effect

so what your saying is, its the same bolt... if not would you be so kind as to explain what makes your bolt better?

[RogueFactor]

so what your saying is, its the same bolt... if not would you be so kind as to explain what makes your bolt better?

Not the same bolt, same porting design only. :ninja:

The RPG ULE bolt is lighter. That was the goal of the v1 along with testing the Venturi porting design.

[sjrtk]

As long as you can keep the ball centered in the chamber (like the hard nose bolts did) i don't see a reason why a fomie is needed. Other than that it doesn't really matter i guess.

[Newt]

Foamie. Just cut the outside ribs off and put a dab of superglue on, and you'll never loose it. :D

[pillage]

The bolt piston made it necessary to design and test it this way than a de Laval nozzle more suitable for ideal gases and acts as a Venturi tube at low speeds.

All discussion for a different thread. This is just a simple foamie vs. no foamie question.

What do you consider a low speed, on the gas expansion in an non closed vessel such as the the Automag valve when it fires? To what benefit? You would have to have a provable benefit to sway the masses to part with their money for your new product. Otherwise it sounds sort of Magic-Boxish.

What is the cost range of these new bolts? It sounds like it is an expensive fix, for a non problem?

On the simple question of foamie or no foamie, either or.


Frizzle Fry, I know ANS had made some questionable stuff, and ordering from them is a crap shoot. I only said the Venturi bolt I have seemed to work as a level7 does. Of course I did not get it new.:D

[hill160881]

OK lets see the non foamie bolt do this without barrel braking. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoQsSpacNp0 Until i see a vid of a level 7 doing 26 BPS clean i will want a foamie. They are softer on paint!

And the whole point is weight reduction, and anyone that has shot a lighter bolt in any marker will understand the value in that.


So the problem fixed is the heavy bolt. So what this product would do is reduce the recoil and markers vibrations while changing the sound signature.

[pillage]

When I had a level 7 in my Rt classic it would cycle incredibly fast, I just could not get a hopper to keep it from blending the paint to mush.

[hill160881]

The L 7 will shoot that fast but it broke several per hopper when i tried shooting it over 18 bps(three types of paint were tested). I also tried both types of non foamy L7 bolts with the same results. I have not tried a foamy L7 yet because i dont have one. Nor have i tried a venturi L7.

[RogueFactor]

You would have to have a provable benefit to sway the masses to part with their money for your new product. Otherwise it sounds sort of Magic-Boxish.
Couldnt agree more. Which is why the Venturi effect was part of the v1 prototype design. I wanted to test it for myself.


What is the cost range of these new bolts? It sounds like it is an expensive fix, for a non problem?
Price range is projected to be within the range of other mag bolts. Expensive is relative to the buyer. Some may say $100+ foregrips are an expensive fix for a non-problem, but there are still those that wish to buy them. :D

[p8ntbal4me]

Foamie. Just cut the outside ribs off and put a dab of superglue on, and you'll never loose it. :D


My bolts always keep loosing their foamie. I do as you say once a year at least,...

[p8ntbal4me]

OK lets see the non foamie bolt do this without barrel braking. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoQsSpacNp0 Until i see a vid of a level 7 doing 26 BPS clean i will want a foamie. They are softer on paint!




The original Devils Den video with the Devil Mag frame and eyes has a lvl 7 cranking at 22-24 bps with paint..... shouldnt be too difficult to get it to go 26.

I think the problem is with the front of the lvl 7 itself and the eye system,... but thats me

[Forest_ptp]

http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/pp165/tracy_ptp/Office/MAGBOLTCORRAW.gif

Anyone remember the Accurizer Venturi Bolt? We built a bunch over them 10+ years ago and they really seemed to work well... Most of them were done with TiN coating.

[p8ntbal4me]

http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/pp165/tracy_ptp/Office/MAGBOLTCORRAW.gif

Anyone remember the Accurizer Venturi Bolt? We built a bunch over them 10+ years ago and they really seemed to work well... Most of them were done with TiN coating.

I bought one from Tom Cook (Adventure Games in NH) a LONG time ago,... at least it looked like that one. It has grooves cut across the back of the bolt right?

I think I still have it,...

[hill160881]

I just got one like that without the groves in it and it has a small foamy in the front. I am waiting to test it until i get some extra paint.

[FoggyFallRiv]

I find this odd that everything is being explicitly implied that it is a great design and works perfectly, yet on your own forum you say it is a failure. what is the truth? look at post 3 and please advise why you say the performance aspects are there for this application on AO, yet say they do nothing on your own web. :confused:

http://www.pblegion.com/showthread.php?p=68545#post68545

[RogueFactor]

I find this odd that everything is being explicitly implied that it is a great design and works perfectly, yet on your own forum you say it is a failure. what is the truth? look at post 3 and please advise why you say the performance aspects are there for this application on AO, yet say they do nothing on your own web. :confused:

http://www.pblegion.com/showthread.php?p=68545#post68545

Nothing odd about it really, as it was never impllied explicity or implicitly. This thread was created as a 'foamie vs. no foamie' thread, having absolutely nothing to do with the porting design whatsoever, or any other aspect of the bolt. I only mentioned the ULE bolt, as it put into context the reason for the question in the first place.

It was however asked why the porting design was chosen, when so many believe that the Venturi porting has little if no effect. It would have been rude not to answer, and my answer simply was [paraphrased]'it was chosen for testing of the design, but thats discussion for a different thread". You can find this answer in Post #18, #24, and #31.

Anyway, hope that clarifies it for you. :ninja:

[athomas]

The foamy prevented role back in the breach. It allowed the next ball in the stack to sit down farther in the breach. The forward moving bolt would strike it while firing the breach ball and cause a fracture. When the waiting ball was loaded into the breach and fired, the fracture would rupture and you would experience a breach break. Many attributed it to the bolt hitting the paint too hard. The foamy helped by keeping the ball forward and preventing the next ball from getting hit at a sharp angle. Any long nose bolt would do the same. When the level 10 came along, the foamy was not longer needed because the slower starting speed of the bolt would safely push the next ball out of the way rather than whacking it on the side.