X Valve can't keep up!?! VIDEO

[sTaLa]

I've almost finished my EP mag using a UTB. It fires, but the X valve does not keep up with the board. My assumption is that when the sear is pushed back by the valve, it pushes too hard and the MPA3 and therefore, the valve does not fire.

I'm using an RT on/off, do you guys thing using a ULT would solve the problem?

Here's a video of the X Valve not keeping up:
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[captian pinky]

is your gun chronoed?
is your lvl10 tuned?
lpr pressure high enough?

[sTaLa]

The valve fires properly on my pneumag, as fast as I can fire it. Wich is faster that shownn on that video.

The gun is chronoed.
The Lv10 is tuned.
I can't rise the LPR pressure anymore because the solenoid will leak. A security pressure switch must open at a given pressure.

[hill160881]

Move your ram rite up against the sear so there is no room between them. What is the output pressure of the tank?

[hill160881]

you mite find some useful measurements and settings in this thread
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=254702

[kcombs9]

either the LPR is too low so the MPA3 isn't hitting the sear hard enough or its too far away, looks like you have a large gap between the sear and ram.

[sTaLa]

Well, I can't really move the ram since it is epoxed (CF frame limitations). But I can try to fit a screw in there tough: I used a kind of nut as a ram so I could fine tune the distance between the ram and the sear. I just thought the distance was fine when I tested it since it fired well in semi-auto, so I glued it there.

The tank output is 3000 psi.

[hill160881]

I ment the output of the reg on the tank. It just takes some tinkering. The x valve will shoot stupidly fast with 850 psi input.

[TwilightG]

what is your dwell set to?

[kcombs9]

The tank output is 3000 psi.

:wow:

I think you mean its a 3000 psi tank, your reg should bring it down to around 800-850psi unless other wise noted...

[sTaLa]

Yeah my bad on the tank output: stupid interpretation. I have a crossfire reg, I don't know the exact specs.

My dwell is set to the default option on the UTB, wich is 7 ms. I messed a bit with it and found out the gun worked around 7-15 ms. If anyone has any info about the best setup for an X valve and the UTB I'm interested!

But I got my setup working! It turned out my problem was the sear interfering with top of the MPA3. Therefore not reseting properly. Really bad design: I had to cut a part of the sear.

I lost so much time trying to fit a screw in the MPA3: cutting it, dremeling it... It is not event funny.

But here's a video! Sorry for the bad quality...
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http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/7554/img0791d.jpg (http://img203.imageshack.us/i/img0791d.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[OPBN]

Very nice. Any better pics of the setup that are covered up by the warp? I keep thinking I am going to Pneu my Chimera, but this might be a more fun option.

[hill160881]

Sweet! You may want to run your dwell at around 13 to 15 ms. I have found that to be best. It will still cycle over 20 bps at 15 ms dwell.

[sTaLa]

Thanks I'll try the dwell at 15 ms!

Here's a video of some shooting:
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And OPBN, the pics I have so far. It's kind of a mess in there :rolleyes:
I located the battery in the warp compartment. 12 V mod out of two 9V batteries. Then I added a 9V regulator to feed the board. This way I won't have one battery empty before the other.

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/1179/epmag03.jpg
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/5968/img0788ig.jpg
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/8923/img0808o.jpg

[68calsportz]

Wow. Great job. I really like how it looks like a regular classic type gun with a single trigger. But underneath those wood grips is something evil to be reckon with. so sick :headbang:

[OPBN]

I guess when I look at this, I am still a bit lost. I didnt realize the UTB was capable of EP? Pardon my ignorance, but what is used to power the ram?

[Frizzle Fry]

I guess when I look at this, I am still a bit lost. I didnt realize the UTB was capable of EP? Pardon my ignorance, but what is used to power the ram?

Air, run through the solenoid from the LPR.

[OPBN]

Air, run through the solenoid from the LPR.

Ok, so something like the SMC S070-SDG-32? The microswitch sends the signal to the UTB which sends a signal to the solenoid who's function is to control the flow between the LPR and the ram? In a non-Pneu the board just operates an electronically activated ram?

[sTaLa]

Ok, so something like the SMC S070-SDG-32? The microswitch sends the signal to the UTB which sends a signal to the solenoid who's function is to control the flow between the LPR and the ram? In a non-Pneu the board just operates an electronically activated ram?

Yes exactly! Here's a scheme:
http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/8786/epmagscheme.jpg (http://img851.imageshack.us/i/epmagscheme.jpg/)

[OPBN]

Ok, now I get it. Thanks. Nice set up sTaLa.

[Ando]

Anyone know the brand or name of the drop on that marker?

[GRAYGHOST]

Anyone know the brand or name of the drop on that marker?
it is a wgp with out the wgp on/off

[xero28]

Very nice job, first I've seen an EP setup with a CF frame. I'd love to see that setup on a classic mag, steel body, classic valve...now that would be the ultimate sleeper.

[p8ntbal4me]

I guess when I look at this, I am still a bit lost. I didnt realize the UTB was capable of EP? Pardon my ignorance, but what is used to power the ram?

All the UTBs (including the one you have in your VER frame) can run large cylinder type solenoids (the one in the VER) and EP types.

In the event you need to use BOTH types at the same time in a marker such as a E-Cocker or a Shoebox shocker, all thats needed is a change in the code on the UTB.

[Frizzle Fry]

Ok, so something like the SMC S070-SDG-32? The microswitch sends the signal to the UTB which sends a signal to the solenoid who's function is to control the flow between the LPR and the ram? In a non-Pneu the board just operates an electronically activated ram?

Pretty much.

In an ELCD mag a clapper 'noid hits the sear (pinless) and pushes it back, in a Spydermag a clapper noid hits a sear that hooks and pulls the automag sear (modified) down, and in an Emag a push-pull noid pulls the sear back and down. Those are the strictly electronic ones.

With a mechanical/pneumatic mag, you manually trigger a 3-way (think autococker) which controls the flow of air from an LPR to a pneumatic ram that strikes the sear. This is closer in function to an autococker 3-way, triggering the firing process in a similar way to an ELCD mag (imagine the LPR as a battery, the 3-way as a microswitch, and the ram as a clapper noid).

In this situation he's got a board controlling the fire rate and dwell, a microswitch triggering each shot, a small 3-way solenoid controlling air flow from an LPR, and a ram striking the sear..

[ghost271]

That is amazing ! Great work. Nobody on the field would have any idea it wasn't a regular mag.

[Spider-TW]

:clap: Excellent use of a warp feed (EP batteries).

You might make up the missing pin in your grips (I have at least one set missing a pin). It should help reinforce the grips and frame.

That was an RT frame?

I'm saving that frame installation picture.

[sTaLa]

That is amazing ! Great work. Nobody on the field would have any idea it wasn't a regular mag.
Tanks! I never really liked two fingers triggers, and I love those wood grips! I knew I wanted one the moment I held one! Back in the days where SP was a good barrel company...


You might make up the missing pin in your grips (I have at least one set missing a pin). It should help reinforce the grips and frame.
I really don't see how I could make on up :confused:, it is pretty tight in there. But since there are two pins integrated in the wood grip itself, I don't really think it will move.


That was an RT frame?
It was a CF frame I bought with my first classic mag. But all the CF frame are the same right?

[Spider-TW]

I thought you were missing one of the two pins that come with the grips, like mine. :rolleyes: Yours must be in your other grip panel. I can't tell that my upper one is missing on one of my sets because they fit so well. I should cut a piece of music wire to replace it.

Your frame looks like it has a large rear screw hole, like it was made for an RT banjo bolt. Do you have a thicker bushing that goes in there, or maybe my eye-ball calibration is off?

[sTaLa]

I thought you were missing one of the two pins that come with the grips, like mine. :rolleyes: Yours must be in your other grip panel. I can't tell that my upper one is missing on one of my sets because they fit so well. I should cut a piece of music wire to replace it.
Ok I get it now. Yes the other pin is in the other panel.


Your frame looks like it has a large rear screw hole, like it was made for an RT banjo bolt. Do you have a thicker bushing that goes in there, or maybe my eye-ball calibration is off?
Yep, you're right. I bought 3 CF frames and they were all the same: they all uses a bigger bushing. You're eye ball calibration is just fine! ;)