The official Improvements Thread

[warhawks29]

Hey all, I thought it would be a great idea to create a thread dedicated to thoughts on how to improve AGD markers, and push the reliability, preformance and feel of these quality markers to continue competing with today's marker line-up.

If there is a problem you have with any of their markers, or if there is something you think that would be a good thing for AGD to look into improving, just post it up, and throw the ideas around.

This isn't a flame eachothers ideas thread, if you see something that honestly wouldn't be possible, or worth the effort to improve, state why and leave it at that.

Thanks for all of your input guys!


My .02 cents, I think it would be awesome for AGD to create their own thru-grip air stream, no braided line or macro in the way. It would create a tighter marker, and more reliable system so that you didn't have to worry about snags, or leaks as much if done properly. This would be pretty easy I think, due to the air being fed striaght to the valve, which is directly above the frame, and with some slight changes to the frame this may be possible.

[Justus]

That would take changes to the valve, rail and frame, and possibly the body. But I like the idea. Do you think it would be possible to get a thin enough outside diameter air line in there without sacrificing strength? And what effect will that have on a possible future e-grip?

[captian pinky]

they did the threw the air threw the rail idea with the classic rt's. the problem was that the banjo bolts were a pain shredding orings, leaking, not getting the proper seal. so they got away from it.

[M98Punk]

Screw e-grip, if its going to be a viable next gen marker somebody gotta get there :cuss: together to get mass produced Pnuemags. Straight up, it's been floating around forever but think about it 20bps with no beat down and a electro like trigger AND you can still dip the damn thing in a bucket of water to clean it if you want. But for christ sake have it modular so that everything doesn't come all out the box. If your going to have any market appeal it needs to be able to be upgraded because most paintballers are DUMB they would rather pay a small amount up front and then spend out the pooper to make the best best gun then just buy one with everything.

Of course you'd sell a special edition (signed by authentic AO trolls) that has all the bells and whistles.

Best part is make a few low budget commercials and pop them on YouTube... Do a good enough job and they market themselves (which is generally better then AGD marketing them :eek:

It goes like this:
Fade to a silhouette of the new gun.
"From the people that brought you the E-mag bring to you the next gen of paintball markers." (insert twibby gun spinning and flashing in mystical and magical commercial way) Able to shoot 26bps second with out shoot down, with the kind of trigger pull you can only get from the power of magnets, 30 years of paintball innovation bring you the most high tech fully mechanical marker possible. Because quality shoots straight, anywhere you go. *Flash bad ass twibby coming out of the water ala one of my most favorite movies. With the performance of X-valve technology, and the power of the pneumatic trigger pull system at your side, you'll have the all that you need to if you bring the P-MAG!

Que the Shatner cameo, "You call that a commercial? P-Mag? Is anyone paying attention around here? He looks at the gun, "If it were up to me I'd call it an S-Mag"

Fade to black
You'd have to be afraid of the P anymore, the S-Mag by AGD

[M98Punk]

It also say that it would have to have mutiple breaches that you can buy, one for stock class, maybe one with a streamlined 10 round spring feed, and one for First strike

[warhawks29]

I'd also like to see more aftermarket front grips, the e-mag battery holder is honestly pretty slick with the marker and I'd buy one just to throw on an RT for looks

[M98Punk]

I always thought the battery cover was fugly and uncomfortable

[hill160881]

I say the EP mag is the way to go. If someone mass produced the frames with all new components they could go for a very reasonable price, i think in the $200 to $300 range. With eyes and covers.


My EP is as up to date as you can get, and it will stomp on most newer markers.


Or another option is to possibly MQ the valve to make it lower pressure, this would get rid of the sear and on off all together. Also get rid of the external macrolines.

[M98Punk]

Blah electropneumatic mag... been tried and failed. Why by a EP mag? If you were to make a new mag it would have to have some new X factor to bring in a bigger crowd otherwise it is doomed to limited run which means you have to charge crazy money for it. Even PTP with their new micromag was really just a snazzy body that wasn't really that new.

There is no reason from anyone to buy a EP Mag anymore. Most people that would want one already have one. Sure the hoarders and gluts would get one but it would be like so many other things everyone wants one but in the end you can get an electro on the BST or Ebay for $100 if you know what you are doing.

My thinking was you market what mags are known for being rugged. Make the ak-47 of paintball guns. Seriously, you have a video of someone dropping a marking in the mud and muck of a woodsball field, pull the hopper off then dipping a marker in a pool to clean it off slap a halo on it then out firing a halo that would be something.

[38super]

My thinking was you market what mags are known for being rugged. Make the ak-47 of paintball guns. Seriously, you have a video of someone dropping a marking in the mud and muck of a woodsball field, pull the hopper off then dipping a marker in a pool to clean it off slap a halo on it then out firing a halo that would be something.

I agree with this. I would HATE to see Mags marketed as the next flavor of the month platform.

I bought a new Mag last year, having owned a L-7 since new (it still runs like new). I bought it for the fact that is a lifetime gun. Buy once, buy quality and keep it for a long time is my motto. Also, the fact that Mags can be tuned within a fairly wide operating range to handle according to personal taste and do so without relying on fragile electronics is hugely appealing. Tuned correctly they can pretty much keep up with anything. As well, being highly customizable makes them something to covet in my mind.

Then there's the cool factor. Every single time I take this thing out people comment on how cool it looks. Not a big deal for a form-follows-function guy like me. But then, I always thought functional form was more visually appealing than substance-less flash.

Mags really are the AC Cobras of paintball, and therein lies their appeal. All horsepower and speed in a tight little package. It's just a shame more people don't realize this.

[hill160881]

Blah electropneumatic mag... been tried and failed. Why by a EP mag? If you were to make a new mag it would have to have some new X factor to bring in a bigger crowd otherwise it is doomed to limited run which means you have to charge crazy money for it. Even PTP with their new micromag was really just a snazzy body that wasn't really that new.

There is no reason from anyone to buy a EP Mag anymore. Most people that would want one already have one. Sure the hoarders and gluts would get one but it would be like so many other things everyone wants one but in the end you can get an electro on the BST or Ebay for $100 if you know what you are doing.

My thinking was you market what mags are known for being rugged. Make the ak-47 of paintball guns. Seriously, you have a video of someone dropping a marking in the mud and muck of a woodsball field, pull the hopper off then dipping a marker in a pool to clean it off slap a halo on it then out firing a halo that would be something.

I dissagree with the bold section. Unless only hoarders and gluts buy those snazzy overpriced Dye and Planet Eclips markers. There would be a market for a redesigned AGD Marker if the design, price, and marketing were right. Look at Angels $1000 ARK. The other point is that any new AGD marker is in a higher class than a 100 dollar electro on ebay. The same argument could be made against any high end marker, for a $100 electro on ebay.

The point of an EP mag is to reduce the weight, make it electro, and give it vision. In other words bring it up to modern standards. The reason the EP mag failed was due to no one finishing one, and showing how well they work. The Reason the EM frames dont sell is the price. The hyper frame is problematic at best and a battery hog. I dont want another one.

Pneu Mags Have a very specific feel to them and not everyone likes it. You have to concentrate on every pull. There is however, no need to argue wether or not people like electro triggers. Most that want a fast shooting marker do prefer an electro.

And you can make electronics that can be dunked in a pool. just look at the Dye Rotor stress video where they submerge it while it is running. Just make the board like that and you will get what you want with the dunking it in a pool thing.

I still think that making it run on a MQ type valve is the best idea. It solves many of the problems the mag faces. You would be able to remove the sear and on off from the equation. So the problem of wear and tear on the bolt/sear would be gone. Also you would be able to shoot further into your tank(maybe). Redesigning and new production would allow for the bolt to be retrofitted to a lighter design, because it would not be hitting the sear anymore, and would not need to be so strong. Also the Level 10 would be useless with the eyes in the new design.

Mags are to expensive to sell as a mechanical marker with todays competitors. That is the problem, in there new in box price range you can get a nice electro with more zaz. Thats why the ICE Epic never took off. More zaz in the 400 dollar range from other markers.

[M98Punk]

But who would buy it?

[M98Punk]

I'm not trying to say that that wouldn't be a cool idea. I just think that as many companies have found out that unless you have a name to sell Dye etc. You can't really sustain production of a EP marker. My thought was go in a different route. Really I would angle at having a plug and play model of gun. Something that you can bring with you and change to whatever style you are playing within minutes. With my micro especially I can strip her in no time flat. but thing if you had a gun that could be a pistol when you wanted it to be, or a sniper marker, tourney friendly, stock class, or anything inbetween. Have reworked LIGHTER Classic valve with lower cycles and higher efficiency for stock/pistol and then your X-valve type to drop in when you want more cycles. Warp feed breech, clamping feed breech, stock class breech, FS Breech. I hate batteries so eyes meh but have the breeches tapped for double detents and use one of the holes with a bolt on electroframe with an eye. Standard single and double trigger frame or a pneuframe (yes it's a different pull but then few I've played with after a couple games you don't even think about it).


IDK as I type that I think about how much design that would be.... but it would be cutting a new space in the market for my $.02

[hill160881]

Thats what i am saying.
The best thing is to offer a way to bring an old mag up to modern snuff without it costing them $700. The EP setup is 450 if you want to buy it as a bolt on with eyes and LPR. That includes luke milling. A new Pnue Mag Design, as you suggest, will sell in the $1000 range when new ,and will have to compete with the high end electros. Not going to happen as a mechanical marker with a temperamental trigger pull, and a tendency to chop and chuff.

That is how i see it anyway.


PS: I have sold 4 EP frames in the last month. Two of them complete with eyes, eye covers, noid and ram. I think the demand for EP mag parts has gone up slightly in recent months as well. Due to someone showing there abilities when done, and there lower cost when compared to other options. ;)

[kobeastly]

a grip frame that allows me to adjust the spot on the trigger where the sear rod hits. Lower on the trigger for a shorter, harder snappier pull, higher on the trigger for a longer easier pull.

Maybe a tunable spring that always pushes on the sear to make the pull softer still.

[OPBN]

These threads never go anywhere, but wth. If I were to ask for something it would a significantly more effiicient valve. Heck, if Tippmann can freaking do it....

Was out at field this past weekend who's compressor was jacked up. They were only filling to maybe 3k and I was up getting fills everytime I walked off the field. I probably filled at least 6-7 times and only went through 1 case of paint. Using a 68/45 tank.

One of the main reasons I picked up a Mini this week was in case this ever happens again.

[warhawks29]

These threads never go anywhere, but wth. If I were to ask for something it would a significantly more effiicient valve. Heck, if Tippmann can freaking do it....

Was out at field this past weekend who's compressor was jacked up. They were only filling to maybe 3k and I was up getting fills everytime I walked off the field. I probably filled at least 6-7 times and only went through 1 case of paint. Using a 68/45 tank.

One of the main reasons I picked up a Mini this week was in case this ever happens again.
Again, it is JUST a thread, a place to leak out that irking issue you have instead of just keeping it to yourself, but I agree a more efficient marker would be great.

[leloup]

What would be best is not a reinvented more efficient mag, but a drop in kit for x-valves that makes it more efficient. That way we can use what we have but pay a little for an upgrade. I'd drop $100 on that easy.

[Frizzle Fry]

a grip frame that allows me to adjust the spot on the trigger where the sear rod hits. Lower on the trigger for a shorter, harder snappier pull, higher on the trigger for a longer easier pull.

Maybe a tunable spring that always pushes on the sear to make the pull softer still.

Angel IR3... The trigger had 3 holes, and so did the frame; different options for pin placement. Mine has 3 trigger stops and two magnetic returns. Brilliant.

[maniacmechanic]

I like AGD just the way it is , I don't want the AGGS to have My Mags
Look at our forum over the past few years , AGD doesn't have to come up with any innovations , we have guys like ( in now particular order ) Mongoose , p8ntbal4me , acidcustom , XM15 , hill160881 , Xmagterror , Tuna & I know there are many others i'm missing , the fact is , if there is something someone wants , someone here can build it ( or allready has ) , really if it needed to be redesigned , don't you think someone here would have allready done it , oh thats right guys are doing it all the time , my 2 latest favorites are El Camino's 1st strike mod & hill160881's Mini Gun Mag

[captian pinky]

good point sir

i think that if agd were to change something the should offer a on/off pin kit to control bps to allow them into tourneys. :shooting:

also i think that another thing that would be awesome is if they did promote the ak47 side of the gun. I know i cannt count the times that my gun was so nasty i had to hose it off after playing. i think that they should also appeal to recball players. here is a gun that can shoot fast,slow,pump,snip. you name it. and now like the guy above said with all the parts being made lighter mags are not difficult to make.

[OPBN]

I don't think making more efficient would necessarily appeal to the agglets. Making it capable of 30bps, weigh 15 oz, and available in purple rainbow splash might, but as long as it is kept a mechanical semi auto out of the box, I don't see it. Figuring out a way to make it capable of shooting a case of paint from a 68/45 or at least 1k from a 68/3k would simply make it better for fields with only 3k fill capabilities. Mags are, IMO, like hotrods. Out of the box, they are decent, but not super markers. They can be made to perform at higher ROF, be made lighter, and have hot anodizing jobs, but it takes work, much like turning an old car into a street machine. A lot of the younger crowd, want the instant gratification of an off the shelf paint hose instead of taking the time to perform mods that will make it better, faster, flashier.

[Drachen]

Like OPBN said, efficiency isn't neccesarily a big thing with that group. A lot of them still shoot spools, even though most of those are still gas pigs.

Though I would like a more efficient mag. That's my only complaint with mags. I prefer all of my markers to be efficient. I don't care if it kicks like a mule, as long as I can get awesome efficiency on HPA. My Ego was pretty decent, but didn't shoot as smooth as my Matrix does. My Viking was very nice, but again wasn't that smooth.

But don't limit it to X-valves. A drop in kit that could be used on most any valves for noticbly better efficiency would get my vote.

[M98Punk]

I like my mag because it still is pushed the edge of what mechanical opperation can do. I'd like to see it keep going. I would LOVE a drop in efficency upgrade. I have a micro Pistol build (when other things don't come up) that I have and I went through alot of effort to get it lighter and more efficent on CO2. How about a Alum classic valve with a slower *gasp* but more efficent cycle for those using it for pump or pistol play.

I just like the idea of one gun for many uses. kinda like what the army does to a certain extent. Have a good rifle that can fit many purposes easily.

That has always been my dream for Mag 3.0 I went back and forth about the pnue frame but to be honest I'd rather have something with the adjustable breaches, vavles, and grip frames so I could just grab it and go. Plug and play with a few different parts, I think that would apeal to all agg and non agg alike.

But idk maybe I am alone thoughts?

[fhawkeye]

Been discussing this with people on my team for years. Tippmann (not a fan of them) is making bank with their Phenom with the same exact sellpoints the Emags have (electro/mechanical switch, spool valve, antichop, etc...)

What I'm getting at is it's been over 10 years since the emag came out and it is still a fantastic marker even by todays standards.

What I believe would really work is a revamped emag, something a little less bulky and a bit lighter with a more up-to-date board with a smaller solenoid and battery.

The Vantage Creeds have a function there you can plug the gun into a usb port on your computer and a mechanic can work on your marker via Skype... That's the kind of innovation that could go into a nextgen Emag.

Other functions could consist of
-the option between the rechargeable AGD or 9volt battery(s).
-the mechanical mode could perform more like a ULE or Reactive trigger
-Maybe recordings of Tom Kaye saying awesome things coming from the grip like "Your marker is now on, battery at x%, perhaps you should recharge it soon" (if it's low)
"How is your mother?"
"Battery dying... will i dream?"

[Flatliner333]

My .02 cents, I think it would be awesome for AGD to create their own thru-grip air stream, no braided line or macro in the way.

And it can be done :D

http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo263/patrickmason/DSC00591.jpg

[Justus]

Exactly how would AGD achieve a more efficient X-valve? Especially a drop-in-upgrade? If that were doable, I'd drop some cash on it. Getting close to a case on a 68/45 would be very very nice.

[hill160881]

Exactly how would AGD achieve a more efficient X-valve? Especially a drop-in-upgrade? If that were doable, I'd drop some cash on it. Getting close to a case on a 68/45 would be very very nice.


Redesign the power tube so that it is one piece of stainless, for the entire length. There would no longer be access to the power tube assemble from the front. Instead it would be accessed by unscrewing the entire powertube from the valve.

The reason for this is to allow for the bolt to have o-rings added to it that will stay in contact with the powertube the whole time.

Just a thought

[XM15]

I don't think the AK 47 is the correct firearm equal it's more like a AR15/M16. I can' t think of another paintball gun that is as modular as a automag. If you could market it like that with scenario players and mill sim guys you might get some where. The biggest problem AGD has is no TK. He was the creative force for AGD without him it's gone. Until someone comes along like him to resurrect AGD to the mass market nothing is going to happen with AGD. I'm not going to knock who runs things now but that's just it I don't even know the persons name. Who ever is running AGD is obviously content working from home selling inventory from their home business to us die hards that still need parts.

[M98Punk]

Indeed! Indeed! There is no reason why many of the things we talked about cannot be done. Look at the 2009 Micromag.... Limited run yes BUT with that breach style or the one used in the X-mags you could have easy drop in stock class breech, or First strike breech with a tac style body. Also an all ALUM classic type valve with efficiency from a 12 gram in mind. I would end the regardless of how stupid you were, we'll fix it warranty. I mean honestly, buy your own rebuild kit and do it yourself, it isn't that hard.

[M98Punk]

Yes who is "running" AGD? Are they ever on the forums talking about the news? Is there news or just a weekly inventory update

[OneSelfLost]

Just my 2 cents.. I love the mag exactly how it is. Modular, fast, and unique. If you get bored, want something different.. Toss a different body on there. Doesn't do it for you? Pick up a slick trigger frame. Endless combinations of setups. There isnt any making these things better in my opinion.