AutoMag NOOB

[biggy238]

I picked up a Mag for little-to-nothing and have been trying to absorb as much as I can. I would like to know where I can find the answer to Why a ULT is a bad idea for a 68Automag valve. If you can answer or drop me a link, I'll gladly read away.

I'm very curious about this as i'm interested in attempting a spydermag rocker frame setup.

Go easy on me please. Cool site.

Kyle

[biggy238]

Well, I got my VS2 frame modded and on the marker. In everything that i've read that isn't to old to have pictures, the sear is an RT pro. The distance between the pivot point on the AM/MM rail is VERY close to the fulcrum point at the end of the spyder sear. The mods/ pictures in the threads (and i've been through quite a few now) with the welded sear wouldn;t work on this setup, simply for the fact that the drop on the sear would be too far forward to interact with the spyder sear.

I centered the frame off the rear bolt hole and drilled the new hole in the trigger gaurd. IT's where it should be as far as i can tell. The marker will fire but has to have nearly 1/8th in of space between the spyder frame and the mag's rail. I'm trying to visualize why this is, but i'm just not familiar with the mag to understand what to correct. I'm working on getting a ULT. When i first fire the spyder trigger, it takes about 10 strikes to produce 5 shots. After it cycles a few times, the marker fires every time the solenoid hits. I'm not sure what it causing this either. I will get pics up of my sear when i get a chance. I'm very curious if the initial binding is due to the sear turning off axis.

Any ideas are welcome. this thing is nearly functional. I just need to get the fitment down (i may have to permantently shim it) Once I get it up and running I'm going to throw in a board and trigger. I need a source for Eye Covers that I can use with this rail.

Any ideas are welcome. I'm gonna try and get some pics up in the next day or two.
Kyle

[athomas]

I picked up a Mag for little-to-nothing and have been trying to absorb as much as I can. I would like to know where I can find the answer to Why a ULT is a bad idea for a 68Automag valve. If you can answer or drop me a link, I'll gladly read away.The 68Automag valve uses regulated air through the air passage at the top of the on-off pin. the lower pressure of the regulated air does not have enough force to overcome the sear mass and the frictions associated with the trigger assembly. You can get them working, but everything needs to be tune to perfection and fitting just right.

[Flatliner333]

The marker will fire but has to have nearly 1/8th in of space between the spyder frame and the mag's rail. I'm trying to visualize why this is


looks like there is about an 1/8" rise in the frame where the spyder sear is. You need to modify the spyder frame so that the Mag sear has enough up and down room to function properly.I modified mine so the Spyder noid worked directly with the Mag sear, by cutting out the spyder sear , flipping the noid around and welding the arm further back on the Mag sear.I also used a ULT with a "Classic" valve and it worked fine.If you go with an upgrade board the Classic valve will not keep up with the rapid speed of the board due to the recharge rate of the valve.If you want high ROF you need an RT type valve like an X Valve.

[athomas]

The classic valve will do over 16bps without shoot-down. That's more than adequate for most uses.

The spyder solenoid, or any solenoid for that matter, has maximum pull force when fully engaged. It needs maximum force possible when engaging the sear so it is important that you position your soleoind so that its final resting place is just past the point where the mag fires. When the solenoid is fully forward, this may show up as a large gap between the solenoid and the sear arm. You may have to modify the frame to accomodate the movement of the sear. You will probably have to modify the sear as well.

[biggy238]

flatliner would you care to post a picture of the sear you built? to me this is the best route for direct actuation.

getting the armature fully into the field with this setup would require adding a gap between the two sears. this may be what i'm accomplishing by adding the space between the frames.
im moving into a house this week. when i get in, i think for my first project i'm going for a reverse noid. the structure is just too much more durable to ignore. just need time with a good drill press.

i put the stock trigger frame on tonight to check that the seal kit i put in is functional. it seemed o.k. once i got the adjuster screw run back in a bit. I'm flirting with disaster by modding as i learn the marker. It's harder to tell what i'm doing right and wrong.

I'm thinking a reverse noid sear would be easy to build. just drill the frame and flip the noid, build a blank sear and get the fitment to the noid right, and then cut the profile in the top for the on/off and bolt.

Thanks for the feedback. I thought it was a little cold in here at first.
Kyle

[hill160881]

Now you know why I stick with the 20 minute mod, known as the ETEK/EGO Mag or EP mag. These EM mags take to much tinkering and tuning for me. They are battery hogs as well.

[biggy238]

Now you know why I stick with the 20 minute mod, known as the ETEK/EGO Mag or EP mag. These EM mags take to much tinkering and tuning for me. They are battery hogs as well.

Oh I will be building one of those too, and probably buying an SMC valve to run it from this board. I want to see this mod out first. The threads on the dual sear mod are misleading. I'm certain if you are starting with an RT sear and rail, there isn't much too it.
This AM/MM rail with a VS2 frame is a challenge. Still working on picks.

[Flatliner333]

Unfortunatly building a sear from scratch did not work for me in the long run. I could not find a way to get the hardness of the one I built to come close to the hardness of an AGD sear. They would work for a little while but would wear out. I ended up cutting the arm off the stock sear and welding it further back.I will look and see if I can find a pic of one to show you. I actually moved the rail forward and have my noid mounted verticle now pushing up directly on the bottom of the back of the sear.

[Flatliner333]

Hill your just jealous cause my gun shoots slower than yours :p

[biggy238]

Hill your just jealous cause my gun shoots slower than yours :p

I'm jealous that someone has a working spydermag. I have to devote my efforts to moving into my new house but after that I will be back online for modding this frame.

As for the heat treating, I can pull that off. Being a CAT trained tech has it's perks. Punching the frame out doesn't appear to be a difficult feat, but getting the relationship between the sear and 90* fulcrum for the solenoid to tap on is what has me worried, and why I would like a picture.

I got my CP barrel kit today. It has me wanting to tinker.

[hill160881]

Hill your just jealous cause my gun shoots slower than yours :p

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[hill160881]

I'm jealous that someone has a working spydermag. I have to devote my efforts to moving into my new house but after that I will be back online for modding this frame.

As for the heat treating, I can pull that off. Being a CAT trained tech has it's perks. Punching the frame out doesn't appear to be a difficult feat, but getting the relationship between the sear and 90* fulcrum for the solenoid to tap on is what has me worried, and why I would like a picture.

I got my CP barrel kit today. It has me wanting to tinker.

I dont think it is heat treated. I believe it has a carbide surface on it, But dont quote me on that..

[Flatliner333]

Check your in box

[hill160881]

How far do you need to move the sear arm back?

A emag arm is a 1/4" further back than an rt or standard sear arm.

The one on top is a E-mag sear with the front leg cut off, the bottom one is a rt/standard sear.
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Temp/Projects/102_1198.jpg

[athomas]

You can move the sear arm back as far as you want. As long as the linkage is parallel, the moment acting on the sear will be the same. If the arm is fixed to the sear, then the farther you get away from the pivot point, the more it will cause movement in the perpendicular direction as well, which is what you don't want. So, if you want to have an arm that is fixed to the sear, you may need to change the angle of pull if the arm relocation is a long way from the original position. If you just want to move the arm for use with a trigger farther back, use a linkage and another arm farther back.

[biggy238]

I got my ULT in from tuna and put it together. Took about two hours to troubleshoot a slight error in my sear design. I got it gassed up (on all 500psi of CO2) and had it trying to cycle on the spyder frame. It fired a puff and tried to kick the bolt out. I put the old worn bolt spring back in and got it to hit a little better. I played with it down to 200psi and it layed down on me.

I have to get an air source some time this week to continue. I will post a picture of the sear when i take it back down. Until then, http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt154/biggy238/IMG00017-20110424-2130.jpg That's a $50 classic mag, , ~$50 for the ULT and $67 on the spyder frame and Dye stickies. And time. I picked up a CP barrel kit on here, ordered some tippmann backs so my brother and I can use it on our 3 guns.

I want to post the sear because it isn't like any of the others i've found in any of the spyder mag threads. I'm worried that with a full air charge on it, the ult will have too much pressure for the spyder frame to overcome. Just have to get a good pic of it.

[Spider-TW]

Thanks for the feedback. I thought it was a little cold in here at first.
Kyle
Sear mods and ULTs in a classic valve are definitely not the place to start for most mag noobs, but you are obviously off to a good start. Both of those are things that "can" be done, but most of us just stay away from them.

The inner o-ring on ULTs can get finicky on old lube, which gets in the way when people buy used ULTs to go in a classic. When the o-ring gets old and hard, it can bind the ULT altogether, relative to the top pressure. Just something to keep in mind for a few years from now. :rolleyes:

You would think sears would be simple, but AGD went through a good bit of work to get the balance of hardness and strength right. The loose sear pin on the AM/MM rail kind of limits the usable geometry as well.

Looking forward to pics of your sear.

[biggy238]

Sear mods and ULTs in a classic valve are definitely not the place to start for most mag noobs, but you are obviously off to a good start. Both of those are things that "can" be done, but most of us just stay away from them.

The inner o-ring on ULTs can get finicky on old lube, which gets in the way when people buy used ULTs to go in a classic. When the o-ring gets old and hard, it can bind the ULT altogether, relative to the top pressure. Just something to keep in mind for a few years from now. :rolleyes:

You would think sears would be simple, but AGD went through a good bit of work to get the balance of hardness and strength right. The loose sear pin on the AM/MM rail kind of limits the usable geometry as well.

Looking forward to pics of your sear.

I've been running Marvel Mystery Oil air tool oil since it was available at work. It keeps our various brands of high end air tools alive and happy so I thought I would try it in my pea shooters. I popped for a new ULT. I was kinda worried about the fact that the body of the ult isn't fully threaded.

I agree on the rockwell on the sear. It appears they only treated about .001 to .0015. just enough to keep it alive. The sear pin on mine actually is a tight fit into the rail. It looks like the previous owner(s) did something to knurl the aluminum of the rail. It;s a PITA to get the pin in and out, but the sear hole dia is over a bit and is loose.

Anyone got a good read on tuning and what i'm looking for? Obviously I can't tune with no power source but I can read furiously.

As for the automag noob thing. This is my first mag. I got in it in 97 with a BE talon at age 14. Saved up the christmas money and bought a BE stingray and played for 3 months on that. Modded it as far as it was gonna go pretty quickly. My brother and I both bought T98's in early 98 that we both still play with today. Mine was a 32 degrees edition 98 and his was and still is completely stock bodied. I've fixed all kinds of blowback semis and read through tech on all kinds of guns. I got out in 2003 or 04 and started playing again last fall. We play until we get mad, tired or broke and then go home.

[Flatliner333]

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=43538 <- Have you looked here.

[Spider-TW]

I agree on the rockwell on the sear. It appears they only treated about .001 to .0015. just enough to keep it alive.
Yeah. There was a series of very hard RT sears that would break at the bushing hole. Apparently those were a little too brittle and the previous treatment seemed to come back. It's in AO here somewhere. Every now and then, someone will try to adjust their trigger pull by shaping the sear with a file. Once that outer layer is gone, they tend to wear quickly.

Iirc, the yellow is a cadmium coating for corrosion, protecting the heat treated layer.

[biggy238]

I'm gonna have to pull out some tricks to treat this sear when i go for a final production part. I have a notion to move on to what hill was discussing with the vertical clippard ram.

Anyone have some good reading on dwell settings needed for a spydermag? I'm thinking about an upgrade board with eyes, drilling some holes and making my own eye covers. (unless someone has a link for some)

Even if I get this thing working nasty i'm still probably gonna play with my cro-mag 98. LOL Just put this one on a shelf and tell people to look at it.

[Spider-TW]

Anyone have some good reading on dwell settings needed for a spydermag? I'm thinking about an upgrade board with eyes, drilling some holes and making my own eye covers. (unless someone has a link for some)
Search Hill's threads for his coverless eyes. Lukes customs may still have some eye covers (?). P8ntbal4me had some a while back (same?). By the time I get to eyes, I have switched marker types.

Iirc, classic valve total cycle time is around 60-65 msec, including bolt travel and recharge. RT types run around 30-35 msec. The bolt travel time is about 7-10 msec, depending on velocity (chamber pressure) and bolt spring. Even though the sear is designed for the bolt to ride on it when you let go of the trigger early, most people try to keep the solenoid dwell longer than the bolt travel. I set mine at 10 msec with no problems. Look for some "AGD" and "TK" references. There are at least some second hand notes in here about cycle time. "the electrician" had some nice posts way back on a hyper frame. "Hilltop Customs" built a UTB EP and may have some dwell notes as well.

[biggy238]

Search Hill's threads for his coverless eyes. Lukes customs may still have some eye covers (?). P8ntbal4me had some a while back (same?). By the time I get to eyes, I have switched marker types.

Iirc, classic valve total cycle time is around 60-65 msec, including bolt travel and recharge. RT types run around 30-35 msec. The bolt travel time is about 7-10 msec, depending on velocity (chamber pressure) and bolt spring. Even though the sear is designed for the bolt to ride on it when you let go of the trigger early, most people try to keep the solenoid dwell longer than the bolt travel. I set mine at 10 msec with no problems. Look for some "AGD" and "TK" references. There are at least some second hand notes in here about cycle time. "the electrician" had some nice posts way back on a hyper frame. "Hilltop Customs" built a UTB EP and may have some dwell notes as well.
Thank You

I have an issue with the ULT that i need some insight with. I tried to set it up with the spyder frame which was nothing but fail. I pulled it apart and installed the stock sear in the rail and tested it with no trigger frame. It acts like the ult isnt pushing on the sear hard enough to seat the bolt and recharge. Is this something i've done and how do i correct? i have all of the shims installed because it wouldn;t attempt to cycle with anything less, and it looks to me like it needs one or two more shims? I need to study a rendering of how the gun cycles. I know I found one when i first joined the site.

Gun works fine on the stock trigger and stock sear/frame.

its been an interesting learning experience at the least.

[Spider-TW]

Thank You

I have an issue with the ULT that i need some insight with. I tried to set it up with the spyder frame which was nothing but fail. I pulled it apart and installed the stock sear in the rail and tested it with no trigger frame. It acts like the ult isnt pushing on the sear hard enough to seat the bolt and recharge. Is this something i've done and how do i correct? i have all of the shims installed because it wouldn;t attempt to cycle with anything less, and it looks to me like it needs one or two more shims? I need to study a rendering of how the gun cycles. I know I found one when i first joined the site.

Gun works fine on the stock trigger and stock sear/frame.

its been an interesting learning experience at the least.
Actually, that's the typical problem with ULTs and classics. They reset, kind of. That needle size shaft means a piddlin' amount of reset force. People have gotten them to work for a while with a max amount of shims (where you have to stuff the valve in the body).

Before you give up tho, try putting a bright polish on the top of the sear (under the on/off pin) and on the bottom of the on/off pin itself. Some times those surfaces (mainly the sear) have machine marks in them. Don't throw the last piddle away on that bit of friction. Add a layer of grease. It's also worth about a shims worth of height (like adding a 0.005 shim), to polish just those marks out. I don't see any extra wear from this either. I don't expect any since the force there is light.

Make sure that tiny o-ring inside the ULT body has oil as well. When it gets old and dry, it can hold everything up.

[biggy238]

Actually, that's the typical problem with ULTs and classics. They reset, kind of. That needle size shaft means a piddlin' amount of reset force. People have gotten them to work for a while with a max amount of shims (where you have to stuff the valve in the body).

Before you give up tho, try putting a bright polish on the top of the sear (under the on/off pin) and on the bottom of the on/off pin itself. Some times those surfaces (mainly the sear) have machine marks in them. Don't throw the last piddle away on that bit of friction. Add a layer of grease. It's also worth about a shims worth of height (like adding a 0.005 shim), to polish just those marks out. I don't see any extra wear from this either. I don't expect any since the force there is light.

Make sure that tiny o-ring inside the ULT body has oil as well. When it gets old and dry, it can hold everything up.

Cool. I'll lube it up. Anyone had any results from di-electric grease? Not sure how it will react to the temp involved

One could increase force by cutting a cone shape onto the top of the pin and then adjusting accordingly, but i'm not sure what affect that would have on the on/off cycle.

So, when this pin is up, it's sealed, and symultaneously releases the bolt to fire the charge the ULT just metered out. releasing the trigger allows the force above the ult assembly to act on the pin, forcing it down, resetting the bolt and charging the (??? noob here) to allow another shot. I don;t have enough force to cycle the bolt, or reset the sear because the classic valve can;t keep up? what is it that the classic doesn;t inherently function well with? I tried screwing the body of the ult appart and installing it, making it affectively longer. I'm going to try and set it up on just the stock sear and then move on to the modded one.

Thank you very much for you input.
Kyle

[biggy238]

Cool. I'll lube it up. Anyone had any results from di-electric grease? Not sure how it will react to the temp involved

One could increase force by cutting a cone shape onto the top of the pin and then adjusting accordingly, but i'm not sure what affect that would have on the on/off cycle.

So, when this pin is up, it's sealed, and symultaneously releases the bolt to fire the charge the ULT just metered out. releasing the trigger allows the force above the ult assembly to act on the pin, forcing it down, resetting the bolt and charging the (??? noob here) to allow another shot. I don;t have enough force to cycle the bolt, or reset the sear because the classic valve can;t keep up? what is it that the classic doesn;t inherently function well with? I tried screwing the body of the ult appart and installing it, making it affectively longer. I'm going to try and set it up on just the stock sear and then move on to the modded one.

Thank you very much for you input.
Kyle


EDIT: ok i'm sitting here and figured out what was happening last night. It's not the sear that is having trouble. My air valve is backing away from the main tube. When it;s up tight, this thing fires and so-on. when the valve is back away from the tube, maybe a hacksaw blade width back, it screws up.

What's the significance of this? It seems like I would be able to change and internal dimension and account for this?

[athomas]

Pushing the valve forward changes where the on-off pin contacts the back of the sear and where the sear contacts the bolt. If it doesn't leak out the front, then the bolt part shouldn't be an issue. If the pin does not contact the back of the sear exactly in the center, it may be binding a bit. This could happen when the sear starts to rotate and the bottom of the pin is not perfectly flat on the contact surface.

The ULT having a smaller diameter on the top of the pin than a standard classic on-off pin results in a small force pushing on the top of the pin. This is in part due to the air entering the front chamber being regulated to a lower value than the output of the supply. The amount of pressure exerted on the top of the pin to start the movement of the sear is the difference between the regulated AIR valve pressure and the residual chamber pressure following a shot. This pressure difference multiplied by the diameter of the pin results in an impulse force applied to the top of the pin. This impulse force starts the motion of the sear to be reset. If the sear is heavy or has any friction, then the low force applied to the top of the ULT may not push the sear with the amount of required force to reset it. This is especially critical if the sear contacts the bolt before it is fully reset, either due to slight bolt stick or some other factor such as too many ULT shims. Once the top of the ULT clears the sealing oring, and the momentum of the pin disappears due to friction or some other means, then the remaining pin force pushing on the sear is a product of the chamber pressure and the smaller diameter of the lower small section of the on-off pin. This force is very small, which is why the sear movement must be very clean and friction free. This is also why it is critical to time any electronic dwell to hold the on-off pin in until the bolt has fully reset. This allows the initial impulse to push the pin and maintain movement to fully reset the sear without interference. For manual frames, a quick release of the trigger is critical. This is easier if the bolt and carrier setup is tuned for minimal cycle time, which means there must be no overlap from the ULT to allow air before the bolt resets and the carrier oring must not put any additional friction on the bolt stem.

[Spider-TW]

EDIT: ok i'm sitting here and figured out what was happening last night. It's not the sear that is having trouble. My air valve is backing away from the main tube. When it;s up tight, this thing fires and so-on. when the valve is back away from the tube, maybe a hacksaw blade width back, it screws up.

What's the significance of this? It seems like I would be able to change and internal dimension and account for this?

Make sure you have the rail bushing in place. It helps maintain that spacing. It's a little copper colored and slit tube that goes in the hole of the frame and rail for the field strip screw. A missing one is just trouble. They often turn up missing on old used mags. I often wonder how many people sell their mags because they quit working right, after they lost the bushing.

Looks like this
http://store.airgundesignsusa.com/images/product/403.jpg

[biggy238]

Knockin'em out one at a time. The bushing is in. I switched over to my spyder frame. I tinkered with it and got no-where. I put just the sear in the rail and bolted it all up. I figured out that the knob that the on/off hits on the sear was taller than i thought initially on my built sear. I filed it down and put everything together and then ran out of gas. If I can get the proper range of motion out of the on off pin I should have something by the end of the weekend.

[Coralis]

Also another problem that will rear its head is that mags will work on CO2 but work much better on compressed air . The CO2 tends to swell and harden the Orings causing problems especially if you get liquid CO2 into the valve.

[biggy238]

Also another problem that will rear its head is that mags will work on CO2 but work much better on compressed air . The CO2 tends to swell and harden the Orings causing problems especially if you get liquid CO2 into the valve.


I'm running a remote with the bottle on the floor and the gun on a table top to try and limit CO2 incursion. I'm eventually going to throw on my stabilizer but don't have an ASA adapter up front yet.

Athomas: Thank you. I somehow missed your post last night. I don't even think it was on the thread last night.
As for sear return, i'm thinking about going to an ink pin spring on the spyder sear to make it return both sears. smoothing things out shouldn't be a problem. I'm relying on my training with pressure compsenated hydraulics for the ULT but I wasn't sure which surfaces were encountering pressure during the cycle.
I'm out of gas until monday. I'm going to dig around and get an hpa tank and cover. I've seen a few here for sale lately.

[biggy238]

What's the concensus of filing the on off pin in order to get it to a usable length where I can fine tune it with shims? I'm guessing if I had it working with the stock trigger, it won't need much.

[athomas]

People file the bottom of the on-off pins all the time. They work fine.

If your on-off assembly is the ULT, then adding shims should work for you. The ULT will take about 6 shims before the assembly won't fit in the body properly. Shims push the upper assembly higher which is the same as making the pin shorter. That is the whole idea of the shims for the ULT, to make an adjustable pin. You can also add shims to a standard retro or classic on-off to achieve the same effect, except that they won't accept as many shims.

[biggy238]

People file the bottom of the on-off pins all the time. They work fine.

If your on-off assembly is the ULT, then adding shims should work for you. The ULT will take about 6 shims before the assembly won't fit in the body properly. Shims push the upper assembly higher which is the same as making the pin shorter. That is the whole idea of the shims for the ULT, to make an adjustable pin. You can also add shims to a standard retro or classic on-off to achieve the same effect, except that they won't accept as many shims.


Yes sir, I was on my second pass through the ULT thread when I asked that. It just seems that if the issue is that the classic can't accept more shims dimensionally, then modding the pin would bring it back to a tunable length. I have every shim with the kit on mine, and maybe even screwed the two halves apart until it just had taken thread and then installed it. Obviously that isn;t a repeatable installation proceedure, so i"m going to need something else in the future.

Looking more and more like HPA is the solution.

[athomas]

I have every shim with the kit on mine, and maybe even screwed the two halves apart until it just had taken thread and then installed it. Obviously that isn;t a repeatable installation proceedure, so i"m going to need something else in the future.If you are able to make the assembly longer (by using the threads on the ULT) than the 6 ULT shims from the kit and still get the assembly into the body, then adding more shims will work for you. A level 10 shim is the same as 2 ULT shims. Use them to increase your shim count.

Filing the bottom of the pin assembly will reduce the number of shims you need.

[biggy238]

how does one go about acquiring lvlx shims?

I was doing a read on the "8 hole mod" or valve mod. Will this achieve a noticable difference when shooting CO2 or is it a waste of time? The reference mentioned the internal ports not matching loacation on the earlier production valves.

[athomas]

The level 10 shims come with the level 10 bolt system. You can buy extras from AGD or from a AGD dealer like Tunaman here on AO. He is probably the least expensive option.

Any reduction in air restrictions help with CO2.

You can check your valve to determine if it needs a hole mod. Take the valve apart and mark the outside where the holes are drilled. Screw the two halves back together and see if they line up. If the holes line up, then you don't need a mod. If the holes do not line up, mark the back section so that the mark lines up with the mark on the front section. Unscrew the halves and drill a hole in the back section so it lines up with the mark you made. The hole needs to be drilled on an angle so that it exits in front of the piston assembly.

[biggy238]

The level 10 shims come with the level 10 bolt system. You can buy extras from AGD or from a AGD dealer like Tunaman here on AO. He is probably the least expensive option.

Any reduction in air restrictions help with CO2.

You can check your valve to determine if it needs a hole mod. Take the valve apart and mark the outside where the holes are drilled. Screw the two halves back together and see if they line up. If the holes line up, then you don't need a mod. If the holes do not line up, mark the back section so that the mark lines up with the mark on the front section. Unscrew the halves and drill a hole in the back section so it lines up with the mark you made. The hole needs to be drilled on an angle so that it exits in front of the piston assembly.

Thank you.

[Ando]

The level 10 shims come with the level 10 bolt system. You can buy extras from AGD or from a AGD dealer like Tunaman here on AO. He is probably the least expensive option.

Any reduction in air restrictions help with CO2.

You can check your valve to determine if it needs a hole mod. Take the valve apart and mark the outside where the holes are drilled. Screw the two halves back together and see if they line up. If the holes line up, then you don't need a mod. If the holes do not line up, mark the back section so that the mark lines up with the mark on the front section. Unscrew the halves and drill a hole in the back section so it lines up with the mark you made. The hole needs to be drilled on an angle so that it exits in front of the piston assembly.
Make sure you don't go too far when performing this mod. If you drill into the lip where the oring for the piston sits. You'll Tango Uniform your valve.

Were talking less then .015 too deep so be on the ball... :cheers: