What part of the valve freezes with CO2?

[Bwaites]

What part of the AIR valve freezes when CO2 passes through it too rapidly?

I have heard of people dumping the guts of the air valve, leaving the on/off and using a secondary regulator like the Stabilizer as the valve. Does this work?

Bill

[TheTramp]

It's the o-rings that freeze. They will get hard, become deformed and possibly permently damaged. The Retro valve has even more damage prone o-rings. That's why CO2 should never be used with it.

Gutting the AIR valve and using a Stab. would work but the AIR valve is a better regulator so you might as well get an inexpensive N2 tank for the money you would spend.

[SoupRman]

because of having a higher ROF, i suppose 3bps is enough, you are bringing liquid co2 into the valve which is your worst enemy for now...

okay fix...
regulator
remote OR anti-siphon installed in your tank. do not run anti-siphon and remote, you will siphon liquid in yrou tank


best fix, and you will never have to worry anymore...
nitrogen/compressed air tank. there are very cheap ones, and the cost of a tolerant mag on co2, versus a cheap 47ci/3000psi tank is almost the same.

[Butterfingers]

I am doing exactly what you describe. Gutted AIR and sideline stab.

[soilent green]

the power tube Oring is usually the first to freeze and cause a problem because it won't seel around the bolt it's all in the 68 mag video

[Bwaites]

Thanks Butterfingers, let me know.

If it is the power tube Oring, then gutting the AIR valve won't help.

Plus, I don't have the Automag video, bought my mag used.

BlackVCG, any comments?

Bill

[Butterfingers]

I am impressed by palmer's reg. It is certainly THE best reg for co2. The stab should keep all the liquid out of the gun. So nothing aft of the stab should freeze. The problem with the mag valve is that the reg will let liquid co2 seep through causing problems.

[soilent green]

I am also interested in this conversion although I would not do it myself it could make a differance maybe even in consistency and recharge rate and I agree the stab is probly the best reg available right now I had once woundered if I could do it with an old vigilanty I got for free but it was a crapy reg and I didn't feel like decreasing my guns performance

[Bwaites]

Well, I hve frozen my mag with the Stabilizer on it, so I know that even if no liquid CO2 gets through that in cold weather it can still freeze.

I just wondered if it was in the valve or farther on that it froze. If it is the power tube, then pulling the guts out won't make a difference.

Bill

[Butterfingers]

Ill let you know when I peice everything together.

Gasous co2 wont freeze anything it simply isn't cold enough. If it were it would be liquid.

Ill provide a little insight on the situation. Perhaps you entrapenurs out there can build somthing to prevent this occourance.

The reason co2 "freezes" is because it goes through a phase change from liquid to vapor.

Chemists call this latent heat of vaporization. Also known as evaporative cooling. The energy needed to change a substance from a liquid to a gas. Evaporative cooling is what your air conditoner uses to cool your room in the summer. Instead of co2 it compresses R-134 a flourocarbon and releases in into coils so that it can absorb heat.

This phase change absorbs ALOT of energy from its surroundings making it cold. Without this phase change there is not enough energy absorbed to freeze anything.

A funny thing happens to the pressure of co2 as the temperature gets colder there is less heat to absorb for a phase change, molecules move slower and condense, thus the pressure drops because the equalibrium now favors the liquid state of co2.

This is why co2 sucks in cold weather. It favors its liquid form over its gasous form. The more you shoot and the colder it gets the more the equalibrium will favor its liquid phase.

Most likely liquid co2 got past the stab. PPS suggests running the stab with a anti-siphon to keep the liquid out in the first place.

[Bwaites]

Butterfingers,

I agree with what you've said, but I've still had problems.

I play in below freezing weather, until I got my Nitro setup I had problems playing.

In the cold, I run a remote to a six stage expansion chamber to the remote hose to an ASA adapter to a gas through grip to a looped stainless hose to the Stabilizer to the valve and I have still frozen the gun!

I hoped that one of the techies would be able to say if the AIR valve was the problem or if the freezeup was somewhere else.

I'm anxious to hear your results!

Bill

[Butterfingers]

I am too... :) the faster I can get used parts the faster this project will be underway. Im kinda building this mag from scratch...