Emag Leak

[CasanovaXL]

I just got an emag that was in pretty rough shape. Gassed it up and switched to manual mode (battery is dead and no charger yet). The gun leaks down the barrel and only stops when I pull the trigger in. I have looked through all the posts and it seems to be a problem with the o rings. I am buying an o ring replacement kit and will redo them all.

The valve is the emag valve

Does anyone have any suggestions other than the rings to fix the problem?

Thanks,

Lance

[Ando]

If you have a lvl 7 bolt, it's either going to be an oring like you said or a powertube (PT) spacer. Buying a regular RT rebuild kit will be your best bet with this setup.

If you have a lvl 10. It's going to be either a carrier oring or the carrier itself (too large). Purchacing a XValve rebuild kit will be best for that setup.

Try adding a little oil at the QD of the valve first (4-5 drops) and shoot it out, that could be all it's needing. Also if your velocity isn't high enough, it will also cause a leak down the barrel.

[CasanovaXL]

Thanks, I think it has a lvl 7 on it. And the ring had blown through.. got it fixed seems to shoot well now.

Can i use anything as a battery pin? it didn't come with one... right now i have a plastic tube in the hole but cant test till i get my charger this week.

[athomas]

Yes, any non conductive pin will work as a battery pin. I quickly lost my battery pins when I had them. I've been using plastic golf tees and lollipop handles ever since. They work great.

[jaron_denson]

I am going to tag onto this thread since it is related. I have an emag with a lvl 10 kit and emax (x valve) in had no leaks what so ever and worked fine but the seals in the on/off were 12 years old and hard so I bought an r/t repair kit. I replaced all the seals that I could and now the mother leaks down the barrel. If I lightly depress the trigger in manual with no battery it will make the leak stop. Then I tried wiggling the valve it makes the leak get louder and quieter a little. WTF?

[Ando]

I am going to tag onto this thread since it is related. I have an emag with a lvl 10 kit and emax (x valve) in had no leaks what so ever and worked fine but the seals in the on/off were 12 years old and hard so I bought an r/t repair kit. I replaced all the seals that I could and now the mother leaks down the barrel. If I lightly depress the trigger in manual with no battery it will make the leak stop. Then I tried wiggling the valve it makes the leak get louder and quieter a little. WTF?
First thing first, lube it. Add about 5 drops of oil at the QD on the valve and shoot it out. If it's still leaking. Fully hold the trigger back. If the leak continues. You did something wrong installing the on/off orings. If it stops, it's your lvl 10 and you just need to go down a carrier size.

Edit: If your velocity is too low it will also cause a barrel leak. :cheers:

[CasanovaXL]

My leak came back, this gun is turning into a money pit. I will get it working someday, my new rings get here tomorrow and hopefully the electronic stuff by the end of the week.

I have a lvl 7 and i think all the rings on the front end are bad.

good luck with yours

[Ando]

My leak came back, this gun is turning into a money pit. I will get it working someday, my new rings get here tomorrow and hopefully the electronic stuff by the end of the week.

I have a lvl 7 and i think all the rings on the front end are bad.

good luck with yours
Rule of thumb. Always replace orings on a new to you but used marker. There's no telling how long they been in there. If it's your PT/bolt leaking. You might need a new PT spacer if you spacer is the spring type along with a new oring.

[jaron_denson]

First thing first, lube it. Add about 5 drops of oil at the QD on the valve and shoot it out. If it's still leaking. Fully hold the trigger back. If the leak continues. You did something wrong installing the on/off orings. If it stops, it's your lvl 10 and you just need to go down a carrier size.

Edit: If your velocity is too low it will also cause a barrel leak. :cheers:

I Lubed the freaking hell out of it. So when I hold the trigger down it does eventually stop leaking and when I lightly push the trigger it does stop. What is the QD? Are you positive it is a carrier that needs to be changed? Why all of the sudden?

[CasanovaXL]

for my gun the bushing/ rubber washer behind the spring on the power tube is like jelly feeling. Is that replaced by the oring kit i bought ?

[Ando]

I Lubed the freaking hell out of it. So when I hold the trigger down it does eventually stop leaking and when I lightly push the trigger it does stop. What is the QD? Are you positive it is a carrier that needs to be changed? Why all of the sudden?
QD = Quick Disconnect

When you hold the trigger back, your basically shut all air off to the PT. If you had a bad on/off oring, it would continue to leak which would tell you your on/off orings are jacked up some how. Once you release the trigger, air once again fills the PT chamber and if your oring in your carrier has worn in, it will cause a small leak down the barrel. To fix that you'll need to go down a carrier but make damn sure you keep and use the same old carrier oring (inside white one) or your just going to open up a bigger can of worms.

The wearing down of the oring happens and you should be good for a few more years on that same one.


for my gun the bushing/ rubber washer behind the spring on the power tube is like jelly feeling. Is that replaced by the oring kit i bought ?

Your bolt bumper? It should be yes.

EDIT:

jaron_denson

You sir if you haven't already are going to need a X-Valve parts kit due to you having a lvl 10 installed. The standard RT kits don't come with lvl 10 replacement orings unless they've changed that in the last few years. No mater if your valve says Retro, E-Mag, Micromag....ect...You basically have a X-valve now with the lvl 10 installed.

[CasanovaXL]

Thanks ANDO for all your help!

[jaron_denson]

Thank you for your hwlp as well, so I did replace the oring in the carrier with a new one. So switching back to the old one will remedy the problem?

[Ando]

Thank you for your hwlp as well, so I did replace the oring in the carrier with a new one. So switching back to the old one will remedy the problem?
If you replace the oring, you'll have to retune the lvl 10. If you stay with the old one, all you need to do is go down a carrier size.

Your carriers are labeled with lines and dots. For instance, if you currently have the carrier with 2 lines installed, you'll want to replace it with the one line and one dot carrier but IT'S A MUST THAT YOU USE THE SAME WHITE CARRIER ORING or you'll be needing to retune the lvl 10 again.

.(0 = smallest / 4 = largest)
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk300/jbonot/AGD%20Tech%20Support/carrierlengths.gif

[jaron_denson]

If you replace the oring, you'll have to retune the lvl 10. If you stay with the old one, all you need to do is go down a carrier size.

Your carriers are labeled with lines and dots. For instance, if you currently have the carrier with 2 lines installed, you'll want to replace it with the one line and one dot carrier but IT'S A MUST THAT YOU USE THE SAME WHITE CARRIER ORING or you'll be needing to retune the lvl 10 again.

.(0 = smallest / 4 = largest)
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk300/jbonot/AGD%20Tech%20Support/carrierlengths.gif

Alright so changing the carrier down one size definitely stopped the leak. I am still using the original o-ring that was in the carrier but it chokes on high rate of fire and the level 10 seems to be not really doing its job with a piece of rubber fuel line.

[Ando]

Change your spring.

[athomas]

I replaced all the seals that I could and now the mother leaks down the barrel. If I lightly depress the trigger in manual with no battery it will make the leak stop. Then I tried wiggling the valve it makes the leak get louder and quieter a little. WTF?By slightly pulling the trigger, you are moving the bolt back a bit. This is pushing the vent hole back behind the oring so that it no longer can vent air. This means that there are too many shims installed in the powertube. Remove the powertube shims and your problem should go away. If you install a tighter carrier to remedy this problem, you will get the bolt stick issue you are experiencing at high rates of fire due to the slower bolt speed caused by increased oring friction.

[Ando]

Hmm..Good call, forgot about the shims. :rolleyes: :tard:

If the bolt is acting like a lvl 7 then a spring change will fix that. If the spring is flush with the face of the bolt, it's time for a new one.

First thing first though...Fix that leak. Go back to your original carrier and pull all your shims out. If the leak stops then you know what it was.

Then try tripping the lvl 10. Adding shims will help to fix any reset issues you might have afterwards.

Hope that helps.

[jaron_denson]

Thanks all. I think I will start at the beginning of the level10 setup and start there. Thanks for the detailed explanations that will definitely help in the investigative/tunning process. Funny to think that I have owned this gun for 10 years and never had a problem.... Oh well.. I will post results tomorrow. It is costing me a lot to figure out because my local shop wants $3 a fill and I am definitely going through some gas trying to get it right.

[jaron_denson]

Also since all of you are in the know, what pressure does the emag w/ lvl 10 like to be feed.

[athomas]

The emag with level 10 works fine with a standard high pressure tank output of 850psi.

When you test the reset capability, any time the bolt vents, chuffs or leaks air in any way but won't reset, it isn't a shim problem. Shims only help when the bolt attempts to fire but does not move far enough to expose the vent hole to release the excess pressure in the chamber which will allow it to reset. Any other sticking following a misfire or incomplete cycle, is a carrier or other related issue.

[jaron_denson]

Wow Well Finally got it to work... It took finding the right size new o-ring since I was missing the right size carrier for the stock one. Also I noticed that the bolt bumper on the power tube was swollen and deformed making it hard to find the correct shim number without it leaking. So it is perfect on the lvl 10 action and leak free. I did however notice that I have an issue with it going into like full auto mode sometimes, like take hands off trigger in electric and the trigger is just going back and forth I think that maybe the sear rod that contacts the back of the trigger is maybe a hair too long or too short, with the movement of the gun being at a resonant frequency causing it to fire itself. Where can I find the specification for the clearance between back of trigger and and sear pin ( I am not sure what that is called, please correct me).

[athomas]

Make sure the battery is off. With it aired up and not in mechanical mode, pull the trigger. If the trigger contacts the trigger rod, then you need to adjust your emode trigger stop. That will fix a trigger rod issue.

The bumper won't cause shim related leak issues. The bolt actually sits in front of the bumper when the gun is waiting to fire. The bumper only protects the valve and bolt from mashing together when the bolt is returned at high speed by the spring. The bumper can get deformed rather quickly when using the level 10 bolt. It has to do with the narrower contact area and stretching which causes tearing. You can prevent it by epoxying the bumper to the front of the valve to prevent some of the tearing on a new bumper.

[CasanovaXL]

I got the leaking to go away, But now when i am shooting it if i short stroke the trigger or there is a ball break the trigger pin will not reset and i cant push the safety on. I get it to be able to reset i have to ungas the gun entirely, usually it will not reset till i take the macro line itself off.

Is this another oring issue? It does it on both manual mode and (electric when a ball breaks)

Thanks

[athomas]

That is bolt stick. In a level 7, it is usually caused by a powertube spacer that is too short. there can be other causes as well, such as a piece of debris inhibiting your sear assembly, or a bend in one of the connecting rods. It could also be an on-off leak. To test the on-off, hold the trigger after a shot. If the gun continues to exit air out the front in a psst - psst - psst sound, then the top oring in your on-off assembly is leaking.

You should disassemble the gun completely and clean it and set all parts to factory spec or better. Measure the plunger too, and set its length to 3.005" from the tip of the plunger to the tip of the clevis. Make sure all the rods are straight and that everything rotates and moves freely. When you are doing this maintenance, clean out the screw mount hole for your electronic board. If it gets corroded, the gun won't work properly in emode.

[CasanovaXL]

Thanks... I am messing with that stuff now... Ill let you know

[CasanovaXL]

I think the problem was in the on off.. i checked everything else and it all seemed good ... cleaned the on off o rings and re lubed them... there was no corrosion anywhere with the board and the gaps seemed ok...

I used some dye matrix grease on the on off wich was strait when i did a roll check on it and put fresh rings on the powertube... no problem have come up in a bunch of dry firing and a few rounds


Thanks for your help