who wants to help my X-valve?

[Boltaction]

So i've got my hands on an X-valve. I've got level 10 kit. and i've got the red spring that came with the valve (used). I air it up (850 psi output) and turn up the velocity. depending on the spring i use (tried all of em) I'll either just get a limp/spongy trigger or ill get a a shot as im turning up the vel. and maybe one more but def not RT shots, then the trigger goes limp again. I currently have an older benchmark double trigger with an AA/MM sear. I would imagine i should start messing with the levelX. My LVLX is older so it came with 3 different gold spring as opposed to the colored ones.

anyone wanna point me in the right direction?

Thanks!

-SW

[Justus]

When you get a "limp trigger" try pushing a barrel swab in toward the face of the bolt and pushing on it. If it clicks and the trigger resets, you're getting bolt stick. "Bolt Stick" is the magic phrase to search for help on that problem.

[Flatliner333]

I am not an expert by any means but you will most likely need to go with a different lvl X carrier.

[aztlan messiah]

Agree, I'm not expert an expert either. I'm kinda new to it all, but have learned quickly. All I can share is a similar experience.

Make sure the marker is always lubed. I don't just drop oil in the asa, but lube certain orings everytime I play. Just something I picked up from owning other spoolies.

Second, your carrier may definately be to small. Try one larger, use the same oring from the previous.

Third, drop an additional LVL 10 shim on (only if getting bolt stick from pinching a ball). If bolt stick occurs during dry firing, it's the carrier!

[athomas]

You are getting bolt stick. Tune the level 10. Remove all shims from the powertube before tuning the level 10. They can cause leaks that will make you think your carrier is too loose.

For carrier sizing:

Find the carrier size that causes the installed oring to fit freely over the bolt stem. The carrier should sit on the bolt stem without moving if the bolt is held in a vertical position. If you tap the bolt, the carrier should be loose enough to move. If you have to force the carrier onto the bolt stem with any force at all, then it is too tight. Install the bolt and valve into the gun. When aired up there should be no leaking. If it leaks, take the carrier out and replace it with the next smaller size. Always use the same white carrier oring in each carrier that you use. It is the orings that you are adjusting. Try it again. You want to use the largest carrier size that does not produce a leak.

Shims:

Any time that the gun fires and does not reset or short strokes and does not reset, or just chuffs and does not reset, the problem is most likely a carrier that is too tight. Installing shims will not help. Shims only help if the bolt moves, hits an object but does not vent any air, and then cannot reset because the chamber is still fully charged. Most of the time the bolt always moves far enough to expose the vent hole, get rid of excess air, and then reset.

For spring adjustment:

You want to use the bolt spring that allows you to shoot about 20fps above the lowest velocity that the gun will cycle at. So, if you want to use the gun at 280fps, then your desired lower limit of operation is 260fps. Insert your long bolt spring. Turn the velocity adjuster down before you air up the valve. Then gradually turn up the velocity until the gun will cycle. This is your lower velocity. Measure it. If it is above 265fps, then you will need a shorter spring or you will need to clip the one you have (unless you have red one. They are usually in the correct range). If you clip a spring, only clip half a coil at a time and then try it using the same procedure of starting with a low velocity setting. Make sure you put the cut end of the spring towards the bolt. If you have the short spring installed, and the lower range is 30fps below the desired shooting velocity, I wouldn't worry about using a stiffer spring and would just go with the short bolt spring. If it was much lower than that, I would definately clip a long spring to get closer to the desired range.

[Boltaction]

thanks for the replies fellas. Once i get some air I'm get this sorted out. Cant wait.

thanks again!

-SW

[Boltaction]

Well, i've been messing with this for an hour now and gotten nowhere. I removed the 2 shims that were in there and tried it again with the same result, limp trigger (sear not even pushing trigger forward). Tried going up in carrier size using what Athomas said about matching carrier size to fitment on the bolt stem. For me the 3rd smallest carrier fit his description best, did'nt have to force it onto the stem but it stayed on if held vertical. Aired up and it charges the trigger fine but leaks out the barrel. The leak did stop for a bit so i turned up velocity and still wont fire. started leaking out barrel again so i pulled trigger and got 1 shot and then back to nothing. Tried second smallest carried and got the same result. So im in a situation where anything but the smallest carrier leaks down the barrel, but doesent charge the gun. Also, I tried pushing the bolt back with a swab and it didnt reset the trigger. Maybe its not bolt-stick? Any other thing that might cause these symptoms?

thanks,

-SW

[hill160881]

Loosten the main body bolt and the valve bolt.

Go with the short gold bolt spring, the smallest carrier and start learning the L10 bolt from there. If it still leaks then get some new orings as this can happen.

What is the distance between the sear rod and where it hits the trigger when its aired up? It should be less than a credit card gap.

Also we need the entire setup, EULE body exe.... Pics of the valve and all parts would be nice, If its a twist lock system then try removing the barrel and trying pulling the trigger.

[Boltaction]

ask and you shall recieve...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3085/5871536523_b49757fbc8.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5144/5872094288_4ef1c852cd.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3123/5872093888_fce3ba75bc.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5073/5872093706_5cfdec708f.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3288/5871534221_42073dfb69.jpg
Complete setup is:

ULE body
X-valve
Brand new AA/MM sear
AA/MM rail
VA
Bike grip
Benchmark double frame
CCM feedneck
Dye drop
Macdev tank reg Output pressure 850


Even tried the valve with different rail and frame and got the same response. I was planning on stock class tommarow anyway. :shooting: ... would like to get this going soon though, its been too long since I had a working mag. Thanks for the help folks!

-SW

[Boltaction]

more...

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5036/5871534373_d270080944.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5264/5871534791_739d14d34a.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5070/5871533937_5579f44dc3.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5200/5872091874_558db40cdc.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3248/5872091664_82a840c2d0.jpg

[athomas]

You seem to be doing everything right.

Make sure you didn't put the carriers in backwards. The oring side faces the back of the valve against the backing washer.

Check the length of the on-off pin in case it is too long. It should be 0.750" in length. Make sure the sear pin is snapped down securely into place.

Use the shortest gold spring until you get it fully functional. If any spring is going to work, it will be that one. Try fitting the valve and bolt into the body/gun without the bolt spring. Don't air it up, but hold the trigger in and tilt the body back and forth to see if the bolt slides freely in and out of the breach.

If everything checks out, get a new batch of carrier orings. You may have a bad batch.

[Boltaction]

just tried what you said without the spring. The bolt doesent slide around. It fits pretty snug on the PT.

-SW

[Boltaction]

OK I just aired it up with the shorter gold sping its shooting. cant quite tell if its RTing cause its 5 in the morning and i dont wanna PO the upstairs neighbors. After each shot i can hear the X recharging pretty audibly, that normal? This is with ther smallest carrier w/ no shims and the shortest spring. I'm gonna have to bring it with me today and see how its chronoing. Im pretty shocked seeing as I tried every spring last week and it wasnt working.

Really do appreciate the help fellas.

-SW

[hill160881]

Glad to here its shooting. :shooting:

[athomas]

just tried what you said without the spring. The bolt doesent slide around. It fits pretty snug on the PT.

-SWHold the body in a vertical position. You should be able to tap the back of the valve and the bolt should fall off it. Since you have it shooting now, that negates that check anyway.

Have you tried a larger carrier size, now that you have a known functioning gun?

You can hear the recharge of the valve, but it happens so fast that it is just a tick. Also, when you release the trigger after the shot, you should get an immediate click, which is the bolt snapping forward against the sear. If you can hear the valve as it charges, that indicates a restriction in the air path somewhere.

[Boltaction]

well finally got to shoot it today. New problem would be an extremely slow recharge rate. I can take a shot and then hear the valve recharging with air. after a couple shots I was pushing the trigger forward with my index figure and then hearing the recharge. Definitley not instantanious like it should be. after a while the trigger was just limp but then would finally reset maybe 10 seconds later. It was shooting really consistant though, had 4 in a row @ 280FPS.

I did'nt bring my LVLX parts kit with me I did'nt try messing with it but i topped off my air tank before i left so i've got some to tinker with.

-SW

[athomas]

That's definately bolt stick. If you go to the next larger carrier size, it will probably work for you.

[Boltaction]

well i messed with it some tonight and its all gone wrong. went up one carrier size (switched w/ the o-ring from the previous) and it leaked out the barrel. When I degassed the marker and removed the valve, i heard a bit of air relase upon removal of the valve, then i noticed the on-off was pushed out a bit (not just the pin, the whole on-off). I pushed it back in and switched back to the smallest carrier (again, swapped the carrier o-ring back as well) put it all back together and now it leaks out the barrel even with the smallest carrier. When I degassed and disassembled the marker The on/off had done the same as before and pushed it self down. This time i removed the on/off and I noticed that the pin and upper o-rings stayed while the bottom part came out normal. Not sure what is causing this but it seems like it is causing my barrel leak issue. The powertube tip o-ring is fine, looks new.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5319/5893001914_534faaa6c8.jpg

I seem to have eternally bad luck with this mag. Any bright ideas?

-SW

[Boltaction]

well, i suppose the on/off wont cause it to leak down the barrel but is it normal to have the pin stay stuck in there like that?

I guess my carrier o-rings must be shot? I bought this kit in 02' so i guess that would be the most logical problem.

-SW

[athomas]

Its normal for the pin to stay in. Mine does that all the time.

If you use a carrier that is too excessively tight, it gets pushed to the back of the powertube when you insert the bolt. That keeps the vent hole exposed which is why it leaks with a carrier that is much too small.

The powertube tip oring has no affect on the operation, so don't worry about it. Its only there for friction to hold the tip from unscrewing during operation.

Make sure the air leak isn't a result of a scratch in the powertube causing the outside black oring to leak.

Since you are having issues with the carrier orings, change them and retune. A bad batch of orings, although rare, can cause problems in tuning.

[Boltaction]

Yeah I ordered some new carrier o-rings and the 4-pack of the little white ones inside the carrier. I switched out the backing washer to see if that solved anything and now with the 1.5 sized carrier w/ no shims Im getting just a slight barrel leak and can shoot OK but im getting shootdown when i try shooting fast and the recharge rate is still pretty slow. Also had to crank the velocity to the max to get the trigger to charge up.

I think im pretty close on this, just need some more air now.

Thanks Athomas!

-SW

[hill160881]

I think you need to check all the measurements for the marker. The sear rod length, the on off pin length... shootdown can be either of those, as well as a temperamental L10. If the rod is to long it will prevent the bolt from resetting correctly and if it is to short then it fails to shut off the shot chamber and can cause the bolt to not fully reset. Similar with the on off pin. Pin should be .750" (.725" with quad oring) and the rod length is 1.9" to 2".

[Boltaction]

Well the sear is brand new from AGD. maybe it requires some break in or adjustment. When i grab some air ill p[ost a video of exactly whats going on.

thanks!

-SW

[athomas]

You are using a benchmark trigger frame which will cause the sear trigger rod not to be the correct length. It may be fine, but check it anyway to be sure. Put the safety on and hold the trigger against it with the gun fully charged and ready to fire. The trigger rod should not be touching the back of the trigger when you do this. There should be a slight gap, about a credit card thickness. That will give you the proper length to guarantee that the on-off will open when the trigger is released and will release the sear when the trigger is pulled.

[Boltaction]

link to video:

link (http://www.flickr.com/photos/62460194@N08/5906601347/)

I would use youtube but they made it impossible to get into my account. Man they really messed that site up.

Sorry for the super shakey/cruddy video but it shosw where im at. The valve is just not recharging the way it should. You can see that when i push the trigger forward with my finger it recharges. And sometimes it does it on its own but much slower than it should.


-SW

[Boltaction]

AH HA!

Athomas, you were onto somthing with the benchmark causing the rod to be a tad off. I threw on a stock AGD single frame and she is humming now! Unbelievable, Im so happy right now. I could'nt try your test because my double trigger is missing the safety but Im in the market for an intelliframe any way so that should get me where I need to be.

I was to lazy to swap over my drop and ASA onto the AGD frame so here is how it was setup, lol:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5040/5906831081_92c4ea9701.jpg

Thanks everyone for helping, now I just fine tune everything and shoot people. yay. :dance:

-SW

[Boltaction]

Thank you to everyone who chimed in and helped me out with this. used it all day today and it shot great, no breaks and no problems all day!

thanks a million, keep an eye out for a big for sale thread in the BST coming soon. I've got all sorts of spare bodies and gripframes and grips along with some extra vales and other stuff too. Since i've got mine working perfectly now I wont be needing any of the other stuff.

later,

-SW

[athomas]

Good to hear everything is working as it should. :clap: