mags & kick

[stevewar]

has anybody thought about how to reduce kick. I'm not a mechanical engineer, but I would imagine the weight of the bolt is a good place to start?

[athomas]

Or make the gun heavier.

Any force that is applied to the bolt and/or ball is equally applied in the opposite direction. The ball will not change mass, so the force to get the ball up to speed will always be the same, so the kick as a result of that force will also be the same.

By making the bolt lighter, it requires less force to move it forward and you can use a lighter bolt spring to lower the operating pressure in the chamber. Less force pushing the bolt forward, means less force pushing the gun backwards, so the result is less kick.

[bpsimpson22]

Or make the gun heavier.

Any force that is applied to the bolt and/or ball is equally applied in the opposite direction. The ball will not change mass, so the force to get the ball up to speed will always be the same, so the kick as a result of that force will also be the same.

By making the bolt lighter, it requires less force to move it forward and you can use a lighter bolt spring to lower the operating pressure in the chamber. Less force pushing the bolt forward, means less force pushing the gun backwards, so the result is less kick.

Precisely! Newton's Second Law, F=ma (Force = mass x acceleration).

[stevewar]

I fired a luxe today, and couldn't believe how smooth it was. Now I know it's not a mechanical marker, but it was impressive none the less

[sjrtk]

I never found a "kick" issue with a mag. So i really can't justify worrying about the recoil of the bolt movement. Even when I have the 13 tank and 50 rounder on the marker.

[stevewar]

I never found a "kick" issue with a mag. So i really can't justify worrying about the recoil of the bolt movement. Even when I have the 13 tank and 50 rounder on the marker.

fire a luxe, you will see.

[Frizzle Fry]

Fire any other mech, most of which have a big honking hammer constantly blowing back, and you'll REALLY love your mag.

[ScreamingShiek]

How much could it possibly kick?

[Loneassassin]

I've always thought Mags were very smooth, especially my RT Pro ULE w/ lvl 10. And I have an MQ'd Cocker which I daresay is the smoothest gun in existence. (I haven't shot a Luxe, but my Cocker is smoother than a DM.)

When firing my Mag side by side with the MQ'd Cocker, the Mag definitely has more kick, but not by an amount that really matters on the field. Certainly, all other mechanical guns have MORE kick than a Mag.

[Redic]

Make yourself a ten pound nasty mag. They have no kick what so ever

[stevewar]

by the way, I'm a die hard mag lover, I'm not trying to knock it in any way. I just think one of the most endearing features of the mag is the ability to tinker with it. That said, there is clearly room for improvement in terms of kick, particularly during rapid fire.

[Pudgey51]

by the way, I'm a die hard mag lover, I'm not trying to knock it in any way. I just think one of the most endearing features of the mag is the ability to tinker with it. That said, there is clearly room for improvement in terms of kick, particularly during rapid fire.


i hear what ur saying about the kick during rapid fire, but i think that comes more from the concentrating on sweetspotting the trigger and not having a firm grip on the frame. however, all other times i find its fine...but hey, why not try to improve it....

[stevewar]

i hear what ur saying about the kick during rapid fire, but i think that comes more from the concentrating on sweetspotting the trigger and not having a firm grip on the frame. however, all other times i find its fine...but hey, why not try to improve it....

I'm hoping one of our fellow AO mechanical engineers / machinists chimes in here.

[DevilMan]

I think it has to do with with tuning overall... I've had some mags that have mad muzzle rise and some "clank" "clank" "clank" every time you pull the trigger... and others... that are as smooth and silent and slick as warm butter... If you watch some of Hill's videos you'll see him sweet spotting/rapid firing a number of mags with super light weights and high BPS with no muzzle climb... it's all about the tuning if you ask me.

DM

[Hobbez]

Fire any other mech, most of which have a big honking hammer constantly blowing back, and you'll REALLY love your mag.


^^
This! Spend a day with an A5 or a 98 and you'll see just how spoiled you are for kick w/ a mag. Besides, IMO I don't feel right shooting something that I don't realize I'm shooting.....

[TwilightG]

I agree with the tuning too. as far as lvl10 bolts go, the softer it is on paint, the smoother it feels when firing (at least in my experience)

my xmag had a little bit of a kick but nothing too bad. then i started getting bolt-stick for no apparent reason. bumped up the carrier size and it was noticeably smoother and even RT'd much easier

[Dover]

i find that with lighter bodies (aluminum ULE bodies) the lower mass means you may feel more "kick"

i was RT'ing at full auto with my Stainless Steel body and with a single trigger grip frame it barely moved, but with a double finger grip frame i get muzzle rise

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE7XgEavivU

ReTro Valve going FULL AUTO at 1:09

[stevewar]

I was really hoping this thread would turn more into how to mod the bolt / gun to minimize kick. I will mess with tuning my lvl x even more as soon as I get my frame back from Mag79 who is setting up his pneu kit.

[DevilMan]

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=256487

ummm... I think Hill would be the one to ask about this...

DM