PTP Emag won't fire at all

[CyberKhan]

Ok, so I bought two identical PTP Emags from different people. One of them fires great and the other one will not fire at all. I have exhausted my knowledge of these mags and cannot figure out what the problem could be, so I am asking if anyone could help me before I ship this thing off to someone to have it looked at. Here is what I have done so far....

The one that works is an all silver PTP emag with an Emag 2000 valve. This one is silver and works great in either mechanical or electro mode.
The other one is all red with a new Red Xvalve. Both mags have identical bodies, the PTP 2000 bodies.

The red one will not fire when I gas up the marker either mech or electric. The trigger and sear air up and there is pressure against them when i pull the trigger, but it will not fire off.

I have done several things to try and diagnose the problem including the following.
Changed springs, carriers, shims, no shims, etc. in the bolt. - No change
Took the emag 2000 valve from the silver marker - Red marker will not fire.
Put the Red Xvalve into the silver body - valve fires beautifully in all modes.
Put a new 2009 body on the Red Emag lowers - red xvalve fires beautifully in all modes.

So bottom line is that there is something about the red body itself that is causing the marker not to fire. The sear assembly looks brand new with little to no wear at all. It rotates smoothly and does not hang up anywhere that I can see. What is even more weird is that I thought at first it was a bolt stick issue from having too small of a carrier. So I put a carrier 2 sizes bigger in the xvalve to eliminate that problem. Now if I put the red xvalve (with the larger carrier) in the silver body, it leaks down the barrel when aired up, but still fires. If I take the vavle out and put it in the red body, no air comes out at all when gassed up. So not only will it not fire, but air is not even making it past the on/off assembly to be able to leak out the bolt.

When gassed up, the trigger is very stiff. It has pressure, but no amount of squeezing or moving the sear will cause the marker to fire. So something about the body is causing the air not to make it past the on/off assembly. I don't think its the on/off pin as its a stock pin from a new Xvalve. Also none of the other 2 valves I have will fire in this red body, they all act the same.

So.... Any ideas what the problem could be and where I should start looking next? I don't know what else to do and stupid PTP won't answer their damn phones. Thanks! :confused:

[DevilMan]

Is the safety on???

There are 2 of them. (I THINK) not 100% sure.. but there may be a safety on the front next to the trigger and one on the back of the frame next to where the thumbscrew goes up.

Are they both OFF? If yes, then you would need to adjust the sear or the on/off pin. I'm not keen enough on this subject to walk you through it, but others here are.

DM

[DevilMan]

Just read the rest of the post... so you think it's the body itself that is acting up? It could be a very minute tolerance issue with the mounting of the body on the lowers that is keeping the sear from being able to activate the on/off. If neither valve will work in the RED body then I would say you've narrowed it down by finding the culprit. The only thing to do to fix it would be to ... when you pull the trigger on the red set up does the trigger go all the way back til the trigger hits the frame or is there an adjustable stop on it? Put a small allen wrench between the sear and the trigger (making the sear push in more) and pull the trigger. How much space is between the sear and the back of the trigger when it's aired up?

My guess is you have a little thicker body on the red one that is throwing off the on/off length of travel to open properly.

DM

[CyberKhan]

don't know about any second safety. I only see one that stops the sear from moving.

When I air up the red one and pull the trigger, the sear will move (though it has a lot of pressure on it) all the way back until the trigger hits the frame. I also thought it was a sear arm length issue, so I stuck a screwdriver next to the sear arm and puller the trigger pushing it back even farther. basically even pushing the sear all the way PAST the frame will not make the marker fire. I have a credit card thickness between the trigger and the sear arm when its aired up, which from what I read is what I want.

I need to figure this out, or else I will ask the person to take the gun back. I paid good money and asked that he air it up and that it had no leaks and fired fine. He said it did, and now I know he lied, because when I got the marker, the battery was totally dead and never fired once I put air into it.

Also, the battery is freshly charged and will fire the Xvalve if I change bodies on the red lowers.

[Ando]

I just posted on MCB...Didn't know you had this up here..

Try installing the silver battery pack on the red marker. If it fires then you know the other battery is probably toast or needs a charge and to get your mech working you might just need to adj the sear arm out a tad bit. One quick way to test that is by opening up your grip panels and manually pull the sear back with a screw driver or allen key.

Last thing would be making sure your trigger magnet is far enough way from your hall sensor. If it's too close it will shut the board down.

[CyberKhan]

changed batteries. same effect, wont fire.

what would cause the valve to not get air just from changing bodies? When this xvalve is in another body, I get a carrier leak down the barel (on purpose, too large a carrier). but when I put the valve back in the red body, I get no leak. How would a sear length stop the air from getting to the front of the valve/bolt?

also I have done all these tests with the grips off, no amount of moving the sear will make the marker fire. Thanks for the help though, just wondered if someone had a simple answer that I could fix.
I may just have to send this thing back to the seller, or else send it in. I would change bodies and be done with it, but it's all annoed the same color.

[Ando]

Have you tried adj the velocity?

[correia3]

Does the non-working one have the shim plate between the body and the lowers? I have had similar problems with another Micro E-Mag that was missing the shim plate...

[CyberKhan]

both mags have the shim plate between the lowers and upper body.

have tried adjusting the velocity all the way up and back down and have tried loosening/tightening the thumb screws that hold the valve/body in. no change.

[athomas]

The tolerance differences between the two bodies could allow the silver one to work and the red one to not work. Make sure you are using a very short on-off pin. The on-off pins for micro-emags are 0.685" instead of 0.712" for regular emags. Sometimes the longer pins will work, but most of the times they will cause problems.

[CyberKhan]

Hrm, I will measure them when I get home. These are considered micro emags I guess, but th pins are the stock ones that come with a new xvalve. I could order a new pin then try and shave this one down

[DevilMan]

Yeah it's those itty bitty nuances that can make mags SOOOO infuriating!

The good part is, is that there is enough info and knowledge out there/here that someone will have the answer to solve the problem...

Good luck,

DM

[Beemer]

Can you post up a pic of the gun??

Take out the detents and remove the battery and when you tighten the valve frame thumb screw and the frame body screw just go finger tight only...No torque.

Can you push the bolt back with it gassed up? and try and fire it.

You have to make it work in mech first.

[athomas]

If the pin is the stock 0.750" that came with an X-valve, then that is even worst than using a 0.712" emag pin. I'm betting that is your problem. Get a shorter micro pin or shave one down.

[CyberKhan]

I'll post pics and measure the pin when I get a chance.
Though I don't disagree that tolerance differences could be causing the problem, I'm doubting the wrong size pin issue for these reasons.

The red xvalve fires and RTs really fast in my silver body.
The red xvalve fires and RTs really fast in the black 2009 body on the red lowers.
None of my three valves (one red xvalve, one brand new xvalve, and one Emag 2000 valve) fire at all in the red body and red lowers.

So if it was a pin length issue, then I should have problems in other bodies, also if it was a pin length issue, then the older Emag 2000 valve should work because it does have the correct pin size installed.

But, I will measure them and see what I can come up with, thanks for the help, I will continue to try and work out the problem and let you know what I find.

[athomas]

You are correct. It shouldn't be an issue.

Have you tried dropping a level 10 bolt into the breach to see if it fits?

[sQuidvision]

i had a similar issue with a ULE body... drove me nuts... AGD support recommended i experiment with different amounts of torque on the two bolts... hand tight on the front and a little extra with the valve or hand tight on the valve and a little extra in the front. Good luck, be sure to post up the solution when you find it!

[CyberKhan]

The bolt fits fine in the body, slides in and out no problem. I even took the spring off and tried that, and still wont fire. I know for a fact that the air is not getting past the on/off assembly because I purposely installed too large a carrier so that it leaks. On any other body, the instant I give air to the gun, the valve leaks down the barrel. On the red body, nothing happens.

I have also tried different tension on both the front and rear pins, no change.

[sQuidvision]

could/have you tried using the sear from the silver one?

[bigbthebenji]

obviously you guys are way ahead in diagnosing the problem, but to help, when I tested it before I sent, I only had 300 psi but it did activate the sear and shoot it in electro and mech, so I have no idea why it wont do it now. Anyways, I've got a parts kit on the way to cyberkahn so that should help him.

[Ando]

300psi and it activated the sear? What do you mean?

[CyberKhan]

Ya I didn't get that either as at 300 psi the gun won't even fire in mech mode. The noid will fire, which it does fine. But anything less than 750 and my other three mags wont even move the bolt. Especially with the level 10 kit.

Also its not an air pressure problem. I have a gauge on both mags and the output from my tanks is a solid 850. Took it down to the gun shop and cranked out up to 1000 still would not fire (they have an adjustable line)

Anyway, I'm out of town for a week, so will order a new pin and mess with kit when I get back.

[bigbthebenji]

Yeah, it sounds weird now that you mention it, but thats what happened. Aired it up at 300psi and shot like 15 times before the air completely went out.