UMF sleeper?

[Pudgey51]

so i got a logic UMF frame that im trying to sell but looks like no one is gonna buy it so, i guess ill make plans to use it once fund become more available in a month or 2. anybody got some sick set ups with their frame as a sleeper Pnuemag? Its probably gonna be easier to make a non sleeper but just wanna see what ive got for options if any...it doesnt look ill be able to drill out one of the holes for the asa in the bottom to make this work but anybody got some tips or ideas to share? thanx y'all

[Ando]

Get with El Camino.

[El Camino]

It uses a Zap Cheater

<a href="http://s1000.photobucket.com/albums/af122/ambler540/?action=view&amp;current=magstuff002.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af122/ambler540/magstuff002.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[Pudgey51]

It uses a Zap Cheater

<a href="http://s1000.photobucket.com/albums/af122/ambler540/?action=view&amp;current=magstuff002.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af122/ambler540/magstuff002.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


so u were able to drill and tap out one of the asa screws to fit an LPR...excellent...thanx man!!

[Pudgey51]

i keep looking at the pic and then back at my frame to see what needs to be done. It looks like u milled our some from the trigger guard, something i also thought about doing. and it looks like u took out the little mounting bracket for the 3 way inside the frame to make room for the LPR, makes sense.

Now, have had urs anno'd yet or no? im wondering if im gonna have to deal with the loose trigger pin even after its anno'd....

all in all, looks like urs is set up quite nice...i might try and do it w/o the cheater and use one of the kits i have laying around however im gonna need to find an LPR small enough to fit..

did u do the milling or did u send it out to someone else?


sorry for all the questions im just trying to plan here, thanx for any info!

edit: gonna need a cheater....

[sjrtk]

Talk to loguzzzz he can set the frame for a sleeper set. I talked to him about it befor don't remember the quote. But it is reasonable for his quality of work.

[C_losjoker]

You could always get a battery pack and a lukes adapter and hide the lpr in there. Or maybe mod a gas through grip to hide the lpr in there.

[Pudgey51]

You could always get a battery pack and a lukes adapter and hide the lpr in there. Or maybe mod a gas through grip to hide the lpr in there.


that thought had crossed my mind as well and would probably be easier but it would only be a semi sleeper because the air line doesnt go into the battery pack of an emag.....but it would still be sneaky at first glance...

i thought about gettin one of palmers regs that look just like a gas thru foregrip and doing a sneaky air line down the rail..

[El Camino]

i keep looking at the pic and then back at my frame to see what needs to be done. It looks like u milled our some from the trigger guard, something i also thought about doing. and it looks like u took out the little mounting bracket for the 3 way inside the frame to make room for the LPR, makes sense.

Now, have had urs anno'd yet or no? im wondering if im gonna have to deal with the loose trigger pin even after its anno'd....

all in all, looks like urs is set up quite nice...i might try and do it w/o the cheater and use one of the kits i have laying around however im gonna need to find an LPR small enough to fit..

did u do the milling or did u send it out to someone else?


sorry for all the questions im just trying to plan here, thanx for any info!

edit: gonna need a cheater....
Yes I did do the milling on the frame and the ASA. You have to mill the frame for the Cheater to fit. The trigger pin I left loose till I got it annoed, but I never did get it annoed, I sold it to someone here on AO. Take your pin and crimp the very end of it in a vice just enough to make it fit tight. I used a Cheater because it is much eaiser to use, but good luck finding one. I still have one left and I'm not sure if I'll sell it or not. Talk right and I probably will sell it.

[Ando]

Talk right and I probably will sell it.
What's up tall dark and sexy, where you been all my life. :cool:

[Pudgey51]

What's up tall dark and sexy, where you been all my life. :cool:

bahahahaha!! u beat me to it! i was gonna say the exact same thing....

anyway, not gonna lie...i dont know how much they cost, nor do i know what ur looking for in terms of an offer so all i can say is....please be gentle in naming a price if u r willing to sell. If not, its cool, i can try and find some other way of doing it but it wont be anywhere near as cool tho without ur help :(

[El Camino]

Flattery will get you nowhere, unless I get a steak dinner and a movie out of it. ;) otherwise

V2 Cheater $105, WGP LPR $20 PPL & shipped
The LPR is new (same as the one in the pic, except red)

[rawbutter]

There's another way to do a sleeper pneumag with a UMF. Actually.... you could do this with pretty much any frame.

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/302363_10150281476408321_612123320_7779484_2771641 _n.jpg

I stole this design from pneumagger. Basically the air comes in from the tank like normal, but when it hits the T fitting, some of it gets redirected into the Palmer's Stabilizer, where it's regulated down to the appropriate 60 psi. Then, that regulated air goes UP into the ASA and out a little fitting/hose I attached in the back. You can see the hose going up from the foregrip and into the rail in this picture.

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/311032_10150281476438321_612123320_7779485_6557080 _n.jpg

Pneumagger's setup is even better. He actually has the LP hose barb somehow coming out of the TOP of the ASA inside the rail, so there's no hose visible whatsoever. I tried looking for pictures, but they all seem to be outdated. You might be able to PM him, though.

I really like this design, obviously. There's no need to mill your frame so much, and you have more freedom to do what you want with your air lines. The air lines are kinda tight and hard to bend around, but they work.

[Ando]

Well if Pudgey don't take it I probably will. I been looking for a v2 cheater

[Pudgey51]

There's another way to do a sleeper pneumag with a UMF. Actually.... you could do this with pretty much any frame.

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/302363_10150281476408321_612123320_7779484_2771641 _n.jpg

I stole this design from pneumagger. Basically the air comes in from the tank like normal, but when it hits the T fitting, some of it gets redirected into the Palmer's Stabilizer, where it's regulated down to the appropriate 60 psi. Then, that regulated air goes UP into the ASA and out a little fitting/hose I attached in the back. You can see the hose going up from the foregrip and into the rail in this picture.

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/311032_10150281476438321_612123320_7779485_6557080 _n.jpg

Pneumagger's setup is even better. He actually has the LP hose barb somehow coming out of the TOP of the ASA inside the rail, so there's no hose visible whatsoever. I tried looking for pictures, but they all seem to be outdated. You might be able to PM him, though.

I really like this design, obviously. There's no need to mill your frame so much, and you have more freedom to do what you want with your air lines. The air lines are kinda tight and hard to bend around, but they work.


thats exactly what i was referring to earlier!!! thank u, i knew i saw it somewhere...

as for the offer from el camino....let me talk to my wife on the price...might need a day or 2...or just be really sneaky and ship it somewhere else :ninja: ..i will let u know VERY soon...

and would a gift card to texas roadhouse suffice as dinner?

[C_losjoker]

How hard or easy would it be to make an adapter for a gas through grip, that would hide the LPR and how would you do it?

Could you cut in half, thread both half and some sort of bracket in there? or cut and threat the bottom for adapter? Or maybe a vertical asa adapter that the LPR would screw into and then the gas through to that?

[rawbutter]

How hard or easy would it be to make an adapter for a gas through grip, that would hide the LPR and how would you do it?

Could you cut in half, thread both half and some sort of bracket in there? or cut and threat the bottom for adapter? Or maybe a vertical asa adapter that the LPR would screw into and then the gas through to that?

I'm not 100% sure what you're asking, but a few guys have tried hiding the LPR inside the foregrip.

Like this guy:
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=240220&highlight=LPR+inside+foregrip+pneumag

And this guy:
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=256359&highlight=aluminum+foregrip

There's also a pneumag pic thread, which is nice to browse if you're looking for ideas. Most of the pic links don't work anymore, but there's a fair bit still there.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=222337&page=1&pp=30

Pretty much anything is possible if you have the time, the tools, and the ingenuity.

[Pudgey51]

Flattery will get you nowhere, unless I get a steak dinner and a movie out of it. ;) otherwise

V2 Cheater $105, WGP LPR $20 PPL & shipped
The LPR is new (same as the one in the pic, except red)


unfortunately i cant swing that right now. if i could sell another item worth at least $100 outta one of my sales i totally would jump on it but right now i cant. thanx for the chance tho

[splashkitsrock420]

im in the mix of doing one of these too..... anyone got any tips...

http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss171/splashkitsrock420/DSC05737.jpg

wondering ,......if i ahve to cut the al bar out to make it work /?

[Tropical Life]

^ Have an experienced person do it for you, save lots of time and get it done right the 1st time.

[stevewar]

^ Have an experienced person do it for you, save lots of time and get it done right the 1st time.

agreed, send it to mag79... he did an incredible job with mine.

[Loguzzzzzz]

Just thought I would chime in here.

A true Sleeper can be built. I have built them using the UMF with a CP direct mount asa and the standard pneumatic internal parts. There is no need for the Cheater.

<a href="http://i520.photobucket.com/albums/w326/jloguzzo/UMF%20Sleeper/Picture033-1.jpg"><img src="http://i520.photobucket.com/albums/w326/jloguzzo/UMF%20Sleeper/Picture033-1.jpg" width="600" height="450"></img></a>


<a href="http://i520.photobucket.com/albums/w326/jloguzzo/UMF%20Sleeper/Picture035-1.jpg"><img src="http://i520.photobucket.com/albums/w326/jloguzzo/UMF%20Sleeper/Picture035-1.jpg" width="600" height="450"></img></a>



:cheers:

[sjrtk]

Just thought I would chime in here.


:cheers:


I was already trying to pimp your services earlier Guess no one wanted to ask you :p .

[need4reebs]

are there any tuning videos for pneumags anywhere?

[Pudgey51]

Just thought I would chime in here.

A true Sleeper can be built. I have built them using the UMF with a CP direct mount asa and the standard pneumatic internal parts. There is no need for the Cheater.

<a href="http://i520.photobucket.com/albums/w326/jloguzzo/UMF%20Sleeper/Picture033-1.jpg"><img src="http://i520.photobucket.com/albums/w326/jloguzzo/UMF%20Sleeper/Picture033-1.jpg" width="600" height="450"></img></a>


<a href="http://i520.photobucket.com/albums/w326/jloguzzo/UMF%20Sleeper/Picture035-1.jpg"><img src="http://i520.photobucket.com/albums/w326/jloguzzo/UMF%20Sleeper/Picture035-1.jpg" width="600" height="450"></img></a>



:cheers:


i was gonna message u but i figured u would chime in eventually and thank u for finally coming in. seeing it work with regular pnuemag parts puts me at ease. problem is im still gonna need someone to do all the milling, drilling, and tapping for me....need the cash first....but thank u for posting and lettin me see that it can be done!!


....and now im sad because i didnt check my paypal yet and the guy who wanted it paid me for it already.... :(

[Pudgey51]

it looks like u milled everything out...what do u use for grips?

[Loguzzzzzz]

it looks like u milled everything out...what do u use for grips?There was an extensive amount of milling on this one.

For this conversion I just used Dye Stickie3's and only used the top grip screw. You can see that I also tapped it for a bottom grip screw with an offset hole similar to a DM5 grip.

I had built this frame for my personal arsenal. Mty plan was to make custom grips for this frame. The grips I was planning to make were going to be black dark smoke plexiglass. Before I had time to make the grips and finish the frame someone made me an offer for it so it ended up with the Dye's.

[need4reebs]

are there any tuning videos for pneumags anywhere?


any one?

[splashkitsrock420]

did ya have to cut out the stock holes for the grip plate screws to make the lpr fit? im guessing so ........i have the ability to mill the frame but i wanted to get away with out totally moding the frame

i can do the cp asa mod and the frame milling,retaping for the lpr.....and want to set it up i have a pretty good grasp on what s up with mags and a few local mag guys that want to do this project with me.....

any more input....?

what services do ya offer to get this frame going....? luggZ?

[rawbutter]

are there any tuning videos for pneumags anywhere?

Not really. Most of the old how-to threads are so old that they're missing pictures. Or they're incomplete.

What exactly are you having problems with? "Tuning" can refer to a lot of things, like the placement/orientation of the piston or valve, the air pressure coming from the LPR, and the trigger stops, so you need to be specific. I mean, generally speaking, you stick the MSV low to leave the lever long, you only increase the LPR high enough for the marker to consistently fire, and you install trigger stops to help with short-stroking and a spring or magnet mod to increase trigger return. Without knowing your exact specs, though, it's hard to give any specific help.

You can PM me if you want. I can walk you through the details.

[need4reebs]

Not really. Most of the old how-to threads are so old that they're missing pictures. Or they're incomplete.

What exactly are you having problems with? "Tuning" can refer to a lot of things, like the placement/orientation of the piston or valve, the air pressure coming from the LPR, and the trigger stops, so you need to be specific. I mean, generally speaking, you stick the MSV low to leave the lever long, you only increase the LPR high enough for the marker to consistently fire, and you install trigger stops to help with short-stroking and a spring or magnet mod to increase trigger return. Without knowing your exact specs, though, it's hard to give any specific help.

You can PM me if you want. I can walk you through the details.



not really having any problems now...i figured out everything a couple days after asking for videos about tuning? it would be nice to get updated videos for trouble shooting the Mags since alot of new players dont start with a classic...they want to jump right into the X-Valve mag or RT type valve and get confused while watching a video for a classic valve? if i had a video camera i would attempt to make one...but until then how bout one of the experts get a Tuning Video for a X-Valve, for the ULT, for setting the Pump Mag, for building an tuning a Pneumag? is that allowed? :confused:

[rawbutter]

how bout one of the experts get a Tuning Video for a X-Valve, for the ULT, for setting the Pump Mag, for building an tuning a Pneumag? is that allowed? :confused:

For a long time (believe it or not), that was actually not allowed. That's why videos are so hard to find. Pneumag how-to's were kinda underground. You'd casually mention you wanted to build one, and them someone would send you a PM with the instructions, and then you'd say, "Thanks!" and they'd say, "Don't mention it. No... REALLY. Don't say I gave you this." But nowhere was anything officially posted, because if it was, then this (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=201012) would happen. It seemed like anyone who tried posting anything anywhere would receive a "cease and desist" email and then take down the information.

Now, though......... I don't know. I think the G-Force pneu-frame maybe changed some things. That and the fact that it's SO easy to get someone else to build one for you, few people seem to make their own anymore. Still, I think cyberave68 had a how-to over on bigevilonline.com. (Here: http://www.bigevilonline.com/showthread.php?t=7) But yeah... I definitely agree that someone should do another how-to video/tutorial thing. I volunteer Loguzzzzzzz. :rolleyes:

[stimpysan]

so i got a logic UMF frame that im trying to sell but looks like no one is gonna buy it so, i guess ill make plans to use it once fund become more available in a month or 2. anybody got some sick set ups with their frame as a sleeper Pnuemag? Its probably gonna be easier to make a non sleeper but just wanna see what ive got for options if any...it doesnt look ill be able to drill out one of the holes for the asa in the bottom to make this work but anybody got some tips or ideas to share? thanx y'all


I had a z-grip pnuemag that I sold to reebs. It was nice but the trigger was no where near as nice as this setup. Instead of having the MSV-2 and working off the lever, it had the MSV-1 mounted directly behind the trigger and held in place with one set screw. The trigger pull at the adjustment screw was less than .090. It is the lightest, fastest mag I've ever shot except for a full RTed X-Valve.

There is plenty of room to hide the LPR also. The QEV is just hanging there and could be repositioned. I did install another screw to straighten out the actuator. I have more pictures if you want to see them.

http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g446/maxxy79/pnuemag002-2.jpg

http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g446/maxxy79/pnue2002.jpg

http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g446/maxxy79/trigdone004.jpg

[need4reebs]

For a long time (believe it or not), that was actually not allowed. That's why videos are so hard to find. Pneumag how-to's were kinda underground. You'd casually mention you wanted to build one, and them someone would send you a PM with the instructions, and then you'd say, "Thanks!" and they'd say, "Don't mention it. No... REALLY. Don't say I gave you this." But nowhere was anything officially posted, because if it was, then this (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=201012) would happen. It seemed like anyone who tried posting anything anywhere would receive a "cease and desist" email and then take down the information.

Now, though......... I don't know. I think the G-Force pneu-frame maybe changed some things. That and the fact that it's SO easy to get someone else to build one for you, few people seem to make their own anymore. Still, I think cyberave68 had a how-to over on bigevilonline.com. (Here: http://www.bigevilonline.com/showthread.php?t=7) But yeah... I definitely agree that someone should do another how-to video/tutorial thing. I volunteer Loguzzzzzzz. :rolleyes:



wow who was making people remove the posts? and by any chance do you know why they had to remove them? man i hope nobody got in big trouble for trying to help out someone new to the pneumag Mod? thanks for the info!!!



oh yeah stimpysan im lovin my Z-Pneumag...thanks man!

[bbotts77]

I built a sleeper in an intelliframe, using a tickler LPR (with a special 10-32 fitting I had made), some microline and microline fittings and Zap's cheater (V2). It's a true sleeper. I think I posted some pics a few months ago. If I find them, I'll add them here.

[need4reebs]

I built a sleeper in an intelliframe, using a tickler LPR (with a special 10-32 fitting I had made), some microline and microline fittings and Zap's cheater (V2). It's a true sleeper. I think I posted some pics a few months ago. If I find them, I'll add them here.


nice ill be using the Cheater mod as well...in a intelli-frame and want it to be a sleeper? yeah post some pics if ya find them...thanks man!

[C_losjoker]

I built a sleeper in an intelliframe, using a tickler LPR (with a special 10-32 fitting I had made), some microline and microline fittings and Zap's cheater (V2). It's a true sleeper. I think I posted some pics a few months ago. If I find them, I'll add them here.

Have you had problems with the tickler? Have heard those are not the best for this build most that have used them just had problems doing the set up. But soon as they used another it was butter smooth. most usually use a jackhammer or Palmer but those are bigger so its harder to find a frame to fit them in. Kenjay did one of his using a trilogy lpr, said he had better results with that over the tickler.

[rawbutter]

wow who was making people remove the posts? and by any chance do you know why they had to remove them?

I don't remember who was doing the cease and desist letters, and I don't think anyone got in serious trouble.... but there was a lot of ceasing and desisting. Basically some company put a patent on pneumatic triggers, and then decided not to pursue the matter themselves, but then afterwards threatened to sue anyone else who tried. That's why products like this (http://www.deadlywind.com/blog/15-hair-trigger-video-from-2004.aspx) never came out. In the wake of all this hoopla, DIY pneumatic frames grew in popularity because there was no professional product to fill that gap (and you can't sue Joe Schmoe just for building one pneumatic trigger from spare parts for personal use).

But like I said, I think it's all in the past. Recently, the G-Force frame came out, and no one got sued over that. Zap came out with his cheater, and there was no legal battle there either. So, someone could probably start producing pneumatic frames again, but I don't think there's enough demand to justify that R+D for a big company.

[rawbutter]

Have you had problems with the tickler? Have heard those are not the best for this build most that have used them just had problems doing the set up. But soon as they used another it was butter smooth.

Ticklers can work, but you have to make sure you lock them down properly. Because they have that big adjuster knob on the top (instead of adjusting with a tiny allen screw), Ticklers tend to "drift" more off the target PSI. While you're tuning the pneumag, just remove the knob completely beforehand and add some locktite to the threads. Then finish up the tuning before the locktite dries. It shouldn't move after that.

[need4reebs]

I don't remember who was doing the cease and desist letters, and I don't think anyone got in serious trouble.... but there was a lot of ceasing and desisting. Basically some company put a patent on pneumatic triggers, and then decided not to pursue the matter themselves, but then afterwards threatened to sue anyone else who tried. That's why products like this (http://www.deadlywind.com/blog/15-hair-trigger-video-from-2004.aspx) never came out. In the wake of all this hoopla, DIY pneumatic frames grew in popularity because there was no professional product to fill that gap (and you can't sue Joe Schmoe just for building one pneumatic trigger from spare parts for personal use).

But like I said, I think it's all in the past. Recently, the G-Force frame came out, and no one got sued over that. Zap came out with his cheater, and there was no legal battle there either. So, someone could probably start producing pneumatic frames again, but I don't think there's enough demand to justify that R+D for a big company.



i hear ya...so then what ever happened to the G-Force Frame or the Cheater Mod??? cause they seem like great ideas and then Poof they vanish??? i hope Zap will start making more Cheaters again...that idea was great!!! hey thanks for the history lesson i really appreciate it man!!!