Classic Rt problems

[BEEFYDAN]

I have been building an Rt classic for a few month, and have been having problems with it. I bought an all new on/off assembly(.750), reg valve pin assembly all of the o-rings from AGD and installed them. With all stock parts, the on/off doesn't seem to even charge itself. Instead the air just pushes the bolt forward and never resets the on/off. I also acquired an aftermarket o-ring kit in which most of the o-rings aren't even a usable size except for the bottom on/off o-ring which when installed, allows the gun to charge and fire correctly (it is even reactive somewhat), however the trigger pull is dangerously low (it will go off sometime just from running with it.) and has bad velocity drop-off after the first or second round of the burst. It is a lvl 7 and doesn't chop paint at all, and I haven't done any sort of mods on it (like trying to install a ULT or anything like that) My question is this: could the brand new on/off assembly and the o-rings just be too tight for the pin to travel freely? and if so, what is the remedy for this? Can I polish the pin to increase the clearance somewhat? or am I barking up the wrong tree altogether? Any feedback is appreciated (Also, my regulator should be putting out between 800-900 psi so that shouldn't be a problem)

[Ando]

You have a bad/worn bolt spring if it's not resting the bolt.

[athomas]

If the on-off orings are working, the air shouldn't be pushing the bolt forward. In order for air to pass, the on-off has to be open which means the sear has to be in place such that the bolt cannot go forward.

Don't use any aftermarket orings in the valve unless you absolutely know their quality and specs. Make sure the orings in the regulator section of the valve are also installed properly to prevent air from entering the front chamber from another direction.

[BEEFYDAN]

The bolt spring is brand-new. I even went as far a using the largest spring I had, to no effect. If I physically push the bolt back against the bumper, it will not vent any air, but it still will not allow the on/off to push the pin back against the sear.

I've kept all of the o-rings stock except for the bottom on/off o-ring, which is the only one that affects the the problem. I get the feeling that the clearance between the STOCK o-ring ( the small on/off o-ring) and the on/off pin is just too tight, and not allowing the pin to move freely. On the other-hand, the after market o-ring has the opposite problem, (too much clearance) which is causing the touchy trigger pull and the shootdown when firing bursts. I was mostly wondering whether anyone else has had this problem with either a Retro valve, or the .750 pin and o-ring combo, and had any insight on a remedy without having to grind on any of the hardware.

Another somewhat drastic approach I was thinking about could be to send the valve to luke's to have the ULT mod done. I was wondering if anyone has had this mod done with to Retro classic valve, and if so what was the outcome? Doing this is kind of a last resort fix, since I don't like modifying hardware like that as a rule, because in my experience, it generally causes more problems than it fixes.

[BEEFYDAN]

You have a bad/worn bolt spring if it's not resting the bolt.


Nope, spring is new and is the biggest one AGD makes.

[Ando]

Ok, is air venting down the barrel or anywhere? You didn't stat it was so I'm taking a stab in the dark and saying no.

With the longest spring installed your going to need your velocity up quite a bit to get the marker firing. Now after re-reading your post and you stating having the long gray spring in. Your problem is the long spring. Most markers won't fire on that spring without cutting/modding it first.

Going to take another stab in the dark. Is Your marker venting out the back if you try increasing the velocity anymore? Go down to a standard spring and try your luck again.

[sQuidvision]

im confused... please clarify, do you have non-stock orings in the marker currently? an oring kit is like $25, if you have non-stock orings i would replace them with OEM ones. If i have learned anything about mags it that they have ridiculously tight tolerances!

[BEEFYDAN]

No it has nothing to do with the spring. I know that. The problem is in the on/off assembly somewhere. It acts the same regardless of the spring used. The only difference in performance is when I change the single bottom o-ring. when I use the stock o-ring it will not allow the on/off to charge at all(it just pushes the bolt forward and leaks out the power tube. When I put in the aftermarket o-ring, it performs, (with no leaks at all) but there is bad drop off when rapid firing or shooting reactive bursts (the second or third shot usually is coming out around 150 or so fps, and also, the gun becomes really touchy (like it will go off when I shake the gun sometimes)

[athomas]

TThe only difference in performance is when I change the single bottom o-ring. when I use the stock o-ring it will not allow the on/off to charge at all(it just pushes the bolt forward and leaks out the power tube. When I put in the aftermarket o-ring, it performs, (with no leaks at all) but there is bad drop off when rapid firing or shooting reactive bursts (the second or third shot usually is coming out around 150 or so fps, and also, the gun becomes really touchy (like it will go off when I shake the gun sometimes)I assume you mean the single on-off top oring. As mentioned, you should install OEM AGD orings in the valve. Get rid of the old orings and the aftermarket ones. The aftermarket ones usually don't work and old orings can have issues, which is why you needed new ones to start with.

[BEEFYDAN]

OK apparently I am not explaining this very well, or people are not understanding it very well. the STOCK O-RING DOES NOT WORK. The aftermarket o-ring DOES WORK to a degree, but not well enough to use the gun. Everything else on the valve is brand new and STOCK AGD parts. When all of the on/off o-rings are STOCK, the valve does NOT work. When the aftermarket o-ring (THE SMALL ON/OFF O-RING ONLY) IS installed, it DOES work to an extent, (but is very touchy and has extremely bad shootdown after the first shot) I don't know if I can explain it any different than that, but it is NOT the bolt spring, it is not the input pressure, and it is not the carrier, I guess it is some sort on anomaly and defies logic in and of itself because I am striking out everywhere in an attempt to get this thing running.

[FOOGLEMAN]

What is your lube situation? Have you fully lubed the entire valve (by hand!) including the On/Off? checked for blockages in the air system? I have found that the bolt sitting half-stroke and purging is generally an On/Off lube issue. (My exp is from X-Valves and E-Mag valves)

[athomas]

When you mention that the bolt gets pushed forward and leaks out the front, how far does the bolt move?

Also, check for burrs around the indentation that the on-off oring sits in. If there is a scratch, burr, or piece of dirt there, it could be causing a leak past the oring that is preventing the bolt from fully resetting which would prevent the on-off pin from being able to reset the trigger. This shouldn't be the problem being that it only does it with the AGD orings, but the aftermarket orings could be a bit softer, which may be sealing around the scratch differently.

When you have the valve out of the body and the on-off assembly out of the gun, keep the top oring in place and manually push and pull the on-off pin in and out to see how much force it takes. It can be a bit stiff, but it'll give you an idea if it is sticking.

Use the new short bolt spring that you have. It will work best in all situations for troubleshooting.

[Ando]

OK apparently I am not explaining this very well, or people are not understanding it very well.
Your not explaining all your issues.
Are you getting a leak? And from where?
Pull all the crap aftermarket orings out and install original AGD parts. Pull the gray spring out and install the gold one. Get everything back to basic out of the box configuration. If you don't we can't help you. We're just going to be chasing our tails around. After its all together with all stock parts, tell us what it's doing.

If you hear a leak hold the trigger down. If it continues, something with the on/off is your issue. If it stops leaking it's your bolt that's the problem.

Rule of thumb when it come to a mag you have no clue about, change all orings inside and out to include a good cleaning of the valve and all internal and external parts. Q-tip the hell out of it and roll each oring in your fingers to remove any dirt that might have made it's way on it. Make sure it's spotless inside before reinstalling any parts back into the valve and generously lube each individual part. Once all that's done I bet ya, everything will work as advertised.