Elctro vs Pneumatic

[93klauss]

So have a automag that I'm thinking of making electric or Pneumatic, possibly both. Have x valve level 10 and am rail, carbon fiber frame.

Have no knowledge of either, electric or pneumatics . Wondering which is easier to do, learn and upkeep?

Thinking of a hyperframe?

Or go the Ego way?

Positives and negatives ??????



Thanks Guys

[Flatliner333]

My 2 cents....there are many options...My first try was a spyderMag conversion. There are electro spyder frames that can be had for fairly cheap (around $50 or so) and it is fairly easy to do. The Rocking frames...well they rock. :headbang:

[p8ntbal4me]

In my opinion:

The pure electro method is the most hassle free conversion.

I think there are less problems with them during the build if you do your home work.

Again,... my opinion.

I happen to have a Logic Ripper EM,.. and its the balls. So damn fast.

But we are talking a custom made project with machined parts. Its not something like a pneumag that gets an electro conversion one night in the garage,....

Im not knocking guys that have pneumags, EP mags, or whatever. Im looking at this from a simplicity standpoint, nothing more.

Again,.... my humble opinion.

[leloup]

Having done both - the hardest part is aligning the MPA-3 Ram in my opinion (which you have to do for both). Other than that, it takes little knowledge in electronics or pneumatics to complete the build. I think Hill has some good walk throughs on the build, and run a search. It is a little daunting at first, but after doing one of each, it really wasn't that hard. Those rams, though...tricky little beggars. Have to get them lined up just right, and have them keep it that way.

[Sc0]

Out of your list of requirements a electro is the way to go for the ease of setup and reliability... I myself enjoy tinkering and the ideal of not requiring batteries to run a gun, even better to wash my marker out with water and not care if it rains while in play... (Though most with electro-marker owners will) No circuit boards, batteries, switches, wires, etc... Well except for the hopper and warp feed.

Guess you can keep the marker the way it is and add a few more, Emag and a Pneumag...

[93klauss]

So I'm leaning to the electro side, what electro frames work the best on the mag?

[Spider-TW]

In my opinion:

The pure electro method is the most hassle free conversion.

I think there are less problems with them during the build if you do your home work.

Again,... my opinion.

I happen to have a Logic Ripper EM,.. and its the balls. So damn fast.

But we are talking a custom made project with machined parts. Its not something like a pneumag that gets an electro conversion one night in the garage,....

Im not knocking guys that have pneumags, EP mags, or whatever. Im looking at this from a simplicity standpoint, nothing more.

Again,.... my humble opinion.

Well...that's a lot of homework though, if you mean making the frame. If you're talking about a pre-made/bolt on frame, I agree.

Between the devilmags and your experience with the electro logic frames, wouldn't you say the functional "design window" is pretty narrow for an EM frame? Meaning that there is a lot less room for error including the solenoid and the electronics.

Not that a sloppy pneu is very rewarding, just operational. I do think the faster and cleaner trigger is the EM frame and is a better deal for the rate of fire.

Also, would you recommend an EM frame for anything other than a ULT equipped reactive valve?

[leloup]

So I'm leaning to the electro side, what electro frames work the best on the mag?

Ego or etek are the frame of choice, but I have seen Eblades work.

[stevewar]

Ego or etek are the frame of choice, but I have seen Eblades work.
What about the V.E.R.?

[OPBN]

What about the V.E.R.?
I have one and like it quite a bit. Pull is a bit long IMO compared to that on some electros, but otherwise, it is nice.

[93klauss]

Ego or etek are the frame of choice, but I have seen Eblades work.


Are these simple bolt on frames, or with little mod?

[p8ntbal4me]

I have one and like it quite a bit. Pull is a bit long IMO compared to that on some electros, but otherwise, it is nice.

Take your top inside set screw and screw it in some.
I didn't loctite it in so you can shorten the pull.

Ego frames take just as much homework as an electro only frame but produce great results.

As far as customer frames, o think you should count them out of the whole DIY builds.

[p8ntbal4me]

My next project will have an optical trigger switch in it.

Customer built frames from guys like myself aren't in the same catagory as something we could build in our garage over a weekend.
I say that because way more planing about what everyone wants to see in a frame goes into a custom run rather than a garage build because in a garage build, your building only for one person,.... you.
your specific frame meets your specific needs as a player.

Custom runs have to sacrifice on areas where maybe the builder personally didn't want to. But the customer base said otherwise.


When all is said and done, I think it would take me an hour to design an electro build from the basic frame out. Adding hoses and such complicates the design I feel

[redlaser666]

In my opinion, not knowing the resources you have at your disposal here is how I would list them in order of complexity:

1. Hyperframe > pros: already designed and tested, works
> cons: not in current productions (get one used), not the fastest stock board (complicates matters if you want faster)

2. Pneuframe > pros: can be built in almost any frame that will fit a mag with a bit of dremel work (I have done the Eblade and a shcoker frame)
> cons: still mech so not as fast as electro, no modes. Dremel and drill work required to make (unless you buy one pre-made)

3. Electro pneumatic > Pros: same as the pneu just add a board and solenoid to drive the piston. many modes
>cons: more parts to get, more complex to build at home

4. Electronic claper sear frame. > Pros: fast, modes, no extra air lines,regs or pistons
> cons: more machining to get everithing aligned properly. Not all frames can fit the clapper.

So in my opinion, if you want to do this quick and painless buy a hyperframe or any pre made frame from the BST.
If you want more economical and have some basic modding tools then pneuframe is te easiest to start with, and can be converted to EP later. look at this one:

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=254395&highlight=eblade

[stevewar]

My next project will have an optical trigger switch in it.

Customer built frames from guys like myself aren't in the same catagory as something we could build in our garage over a weekend.
I say that because way more planing about what everyone wants to see in a frame goes into a custom run rather than a garage build because in a garage build, your building only for one person,.... you.
your specific frame meets your specific needs as a player.

Custom runs have to sacrifice on areas where maybe the builder personally didn't want to. But the customer base said otherwise.


When all is said and done, I think it would take me an hour to design an electro build from the basic frame out. Adding hoses and such complicates the design I feel

tell me more about the optical trigger switch

[p8ntbal4me]

tell me more about the optical trigger switch

No contact switch. The trigger breaks a beam and thats what activates the software on the board.

Planet Eclipse has a patent on it, but the royalty to use it per board would be low dollars per unit.

The stock E-Blade and older EGO boards all used optical switches.

[p8ntbal4me]

In my opinion, not knowing the resources you have at your disposal here is how I would list them in order of complexity:

1. Hyperframe > pros: already designed and tested, works
> cons: not in current productions (get one used), not the fastest stock board (complicates matters if you want faster)

2. Pneuframe > pros: can be built in almost any frame that will fit a mag with a bit of dremel work (I have done the Eblade and a shcoker frame)
> cons: still mech so not as fast as electro, no modes. Dremel and drill work required to make (unless you buy one pre-made)

3. Electro pneumatic > Pros: same as the pneu just add a board and solenoid to drive the piston. many modes
>cons: more parts to get, more complex to build at home

4. Electronic claper sear frame. > Pros: fast, modes, no extra air lines,regs or pistons
> cons: more machining to get everithing aligned properly. Not all frames can fit the clapper.

So in my opinion, if you want to do this quick and painless buy a hyperframe or any pre made frame from the BST.
If you want more economical and have some basic modding tools then pneuframe is te easiest to start with, and can be converted to EP later.


Well thought out.

I agree with the changing from one version of a frame mod to another. The jump from pneu-to-EP really is simple, just takes some more planing as mentioned.

If you can plan out the pneumatic version and get it working, the EP is only a solenoid, board and battery away from conversion.

I want to be clear in my opinion, when I say that the DIY is not the same as a manufactured modded frame. I didnt build the VER out of thin air. YEARS of proto-typing and testing went into that frame..... YEARS.

I made 3 VER proto-types, and 2 more other versions before that.

All at $700 a pop. Manufacturing a good product is expensive.

What you can build in your basement can provide you with just as good results, with far less cash out the pocket.

[mpsd]

In my opinion, not knowing the resources you have at your disposal here is how I would list them in order of complexity:

1. Hyperframe > pros: already designed and tested, works
> cons: not in current productions (get one used), not the fastest stock board (complicates matters if you want faster)

2. Pneuframe > pros: can be built in almost any frame that will fit a mag with a bit of dremel work (I have done the Eblade and a shcoker frame)
> cons: still mech so not as fast as electro, no modes. Dremel and drill work required to make (unless you buy one pre-made)

3. Electro pneumatic > Pros: same as the pneu just add a board and solenoid to drive the piston. many modes
>cons: more parts to get, more complex to build at home

4. Electronic claper sear frame. > Pros: fast, modes, no extra air lines,regs or pistons
> cons: more machining to get everithing aligned properly. Not all frames can fit the clapper.

So in my opinion, if you want to do this quick and painless buy a hyperframe or any pre made frame from the BST.
If you want more economical and have some basic modding tools then pneuframe is te easiest to start with, and can be converted to EP later.

That's exactly what I was going to say. I have several of those frames (penu, e-pneu, pure electro) and if you want to save yourself from the hassle and just get your Mag ripping really, really fast, buy a VER frame and be happy. I believe P8nt still have a couple of them for sale, brand new.

As for the mentioned longer trigger pull, that's the easiest thing to fix. Just buy a longer trigger adjusting bolt and you are done. :)

:cheers:

[Flatliner333]

FYI

http://www.ebay.com/itm/COMPLETELY-BUILT-AGD-AUTOMAG-MINIMAG-ELECTRO-PNEUMATIC-AURORA-FRAME-CONVERSION-/120782652428?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1f35040c

[93klauss]

Thanks Guys for all the help and review of the different ways to go. Ended up going the easy way and got a 20 bps hyperframe. :D