Tom....Need a Favor...You Military paintballs

[mattyfatty182]

Does anyone happen to have any pics of these?

[BlackVCG]

http://www.rumbleme.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Diner_Wrapper&file=index&req=ShowFile&file_wrap=html/agdtour/20.html

[Lone Gunman]

Are those black flakes gun powder? How do those things work?

[Snooky]

tell some info on these please!

[X-Plosive]

makes me wonder, what does the gun look like?

[Snooky]

foo says those are paintball holders that look like fins. i hope hes wrong cause those look neat.

[headcase]

http://www.rumbleme.com/images/agdtour/k-military-balls_mh.jpg

[AGD]

The front ends are filled with weighted powder for balance. The back ends contian the payload, are finned and spin stabilize in flight.

AGD

[Telefragged]

Interesting, what kind of loading system is used with those? They most certainly couldn't be used with a normal loader...could they? Wieghted with bismuth eh? How heavy are those? They seem like they might hurt a bit... Cool nevertheless

[AGD]

They hurt a LOT, can't talk about the specifics of the loading system but you are right it's not gravity.

AGD

[zads27]

Daaang.. those things even just look paintful! They look like hard plastic pellets. 'Hard' to imagine them actually breaking on people.

The AGD teaser shows what Tom's military painbringers did to a big door at the end of a hallway

My guess for loading would be a AT- magazine style system, cuz they would have to be loaded into the breach with the correct orientation. Would give reliable feeding, quick magazine changes, etc,.

[sajohnston]

I am good friends with the LRSD (long Range Surviellance Detachment)Commander for the 2nd Infantry Division. We are going to provide him with some OPFOR (Opposing Forces) in March and he mentioned a new paint-gun system. We have used MILES (beefed-up laser tag) for years and we all hate it. He said the new system is a configuration for or M16A2s and M4 Carbines that fires a hardened paint round. I knew AGD had worked on stuff for the military but it didn't click that this new system could be one of Tom's projects.

If this works out I will take lots of pictures and tell you everything. After which I might have to kill you ;)

[TylerDurden]

in case you haven't seen the gun yet here it is:

http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/Bicycle/xm303.gif

[sajohnston]

That is a Smith and Wessn Logo on the stock and foregrip. Caliber looks to be at least .50 but probably larger which is in line with current markers. Drum fed.

[Cha0tic]

i like that side mounted tank....i wonder how fast it shoots...

[Army]

Hey rotorhead, That's Fabrique Nationale not S&W!:)

FNC out of Belgium. They make the M240B-C-D .30's and the M249, not to mention a large run of M16's, and were the makers of the FN-FAL, the greatest battle rifle of all time!

[HoppysMag]

Army ......dont they make the FAMAS too?

[zads27]

Yes I believe FN makes the FAMAS as well.

That crazy paintball gun looks like mp5 rear ends a FN P90.. muzzle size looks menacing though ;)

FN/FAL? bah. HK- No Compromise.

[personman]

Screw P90s I love FN for the FiveSevens!

[Army]

Nope, GIAT (Groupement Industriel des Armements Terrestres) makes the FAMAS.

[HoppysMag]

O....your right Army..... P90s are cool too..... any one here into Airsoft... im getting interested in it...any advice?

[Trunnion]

the original FAMAS weapons were made by Manufacture d'Armes de Saint-Etienne and GIAT. in '94 GIAT took over the production of the weapon. GIAT is french while FN is belgian. some of the best weapons since WWII have come from FN. a friend of mine recently purchased an FN-FAL, which i'll probably get to try out sometime this spring. i'm interested to see how the FAL stands up to my Garand :)

[BlackVCG]

Bah. The FAL is a MUCH more proven weapon than HK's comparable HK33 rifle.

[Trunnion]

i thought HK's comperable weapon was the G3? the 33 is 5.56x45mm, while the G3 is a 7.62x51mm, like the FAL. regardless, the HK weapons are generally more complex and prone to jams in the field than something like FAL, but it's also more accurate. in an environment other than a battle field, an HK will do rather well. that's why MP5s are used by SWAT teams, but you don't see regular soldiers using them

[zads27]

Originally posted by BlackVCG
Bah. The FAL is a MUCH more proven weapon than HK's comparable HK33 rifle.



I think it would be more fair to compare the FAL to the G3. In fact, the G3 was produced basically as a FAL rifle, since Fabrique Nationale wouldn't license Germany to produce it. The HK33 is basically a 5.56mm version of the G3.

With a limited budget and being a civvy shooter, I do suppose I'd go for the FAL (especially if I did my own reloads.. the roller lock system beats the living daylights outta cases).. but no holds barred, combat scenario, I'd go for the 91/G3.

To stay on topic, I wonder if the military PB marker there feels off balanced to the right? Slap a warp feed on the left, and it's perfectly balanced again :D

EDIT: I'd have to disagree with the jams on the field argument, the G3 can take way more of the "Wolf"-type ammunition factor than the FAL, the FAL being more "AR-15" picky about what ammo you feed it.

[Trunnion]

jams aren't dependant solely on the quality of ammo(though that's a big part of it). when it comes to dirt ingress, from what i understand the G3 is a little bit more sensitive. personally, i'd prefer an M14. basically a garand with a clip and chambered for NATO 7.62mm ammo. Garands were hard to beat for all-round reliability, so i wouldn't think the M14 would be much worse

[HoppysMag]

Wanna know the best asualt rifle eh? Can you say Kalashnikov! ( alot of people cant! ) truly one of the most diverse guns.... its up there with the M16 family......used by all third world countrys and communist....... that many communist cant be wrong!


my top 5 Rifle/long gun list

1) FAMAS/M14
2)AKM/ various weapons in the AK family
3)M4 / and other m16 derividants
4)Spas 12/ Mossberg M500 SSB
5)MP5K-PDW

My Top 5 Pistols
1)Desert Eagle .50 / M1911 .45
2)USP
3)Glock 17
4)M92
5)KWC K99

I am not aying these are the best, these are just what i Perfer.


****a back slash means OR.******

[Hysperion]

How can you call the AK series #2 and the M-14 #1? Have you ever shot a real weapon before or did you get these pics out of the original copy of Soldier of Fortune? Obviously if you think the AK series is reliable, you must be comparing it to an M-16....because when comparing it to a real rifle like the H&K G-36 (one of which shot 46,000 rounds without being cleaned and didn't jam once.....) go here for some info on this one..... http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/pages/military/wsysframeset.html .....The only reason the AK series is used everywhere is because they're cheap.....The Mig-29 and Mig-21 are used by all the third world countries and have about 10x the production numbers of the F-22 Raptor, I guess that means that they are more capable aircraft :) ....The M-14 is good for semi-auto sniper derivatives .....but the M-24 (based off the Remington 700, is still a more capable weapon).....I guess the funniest part of your whole rating thing is that you have the Desert Eagle listed as the #1 pistol....Sounds to me like that's the best gun you've used while playing Counterstrike so you think it's the best in real life too....hahahaha I write all this then I go back and see you specifically said "I'm not saying these are the best, just what I prefer" .....now I feel stupid....but anyways check up on the G-36 those are fricken awesome......

[HoppysMag]

I am not aying these are the best, these are just what i Perfer.

So relax....and the AK is still a great gun.....


EDIT: i finaly finished reading your post and saw that you relized about the WHAT I PERFER thing..... now i feel stupid...:D , il check out the HK

[[NA]WARLORD]

AK is a great weapon, in case you guys havent noticed but some of the top A/T teams use them, sure you will see M-4's, H&K MP5's, and other weapons in the promo pics used for recruiting but in reality when they hit foreign turf most of them carry AK,s. This was explained to me by Richard Marchinko, former Navy SEal, he said they are as accurate & they are reliable ( more so then M-16's) they can fire at greater ranges (since they are a larger caliber) and ammo is readily available due to most third world countries using them.
Army may attest to this one, drop an M-16 into the mud, pick it up clean it off and try to fire it, Nothin !! do the same with an AK, its like nothin ever happened.

[Trunnion]

a friend of mine has an AK, and as far as accuracy is concerned it can even come close to an M-16. you might want to check on that one. their barrels are shorter, and the old 7.62x39mm have a much lower muzzle velocity than the 5.56x45mm used by the M-16(almost 300 m/sec slower). i've never used an M-16, though i will in april, but from what i understand they're rather accurate weapons, despite the well known reliability problems. i can't speak for the newer AK74s, which use a 5.45x39.5mm cartridge. i don't know anyone who's used one, and i haven't read anything about them. the greater range is definitely not accurate. the bullet is a larger caliber, but the case is alot shorter. their maxiumum effective ranges are both about 400 meters. actually, i do believe the M16A2s firing the SS109 rounds(i'm not sure of the ammo's official M designation) extended the M16's effective range to 550m.

[HyperSnyper]

Originally posted by AGD
...They hurt a LOT...

LOL, Tom aint kidding, look at the AGD tour vids, inside the warehouse range where they test shots, and look at the freaking dents it left in a metal door.

OMG, for the love of God, I will never with those things (well maybe Ill pay WITH them, but not AGAINST them)!

-Hyper

[Army]

The AK series is are wonderful testament to reliability, but that is the only accolade I'll ever give them. Their reliability is due to the ammo shape, and the very loose tolerances in the reciever group. Accuracy is non-existent, ergonomics is rather sad for western standards, and they are poorly made. I know there are many tales of them being pulled from bomb craters and firing off the whole mag like it was new, but I can tell you just as many about how jammed up they were.

The M16 series did have it's teething problems, as any new system will. Ordnance blew it by allowing them into combat before all testing was complete. One test was to change the powder type. This one, unfortunately, was passed over before Winchester changed the powder type in '67. The new powder created more carbon than the operating system could handle, thus resulting in the horrible stories of men getting killed with their rifles field stripped in the mud next to them.

In late '67, Winchester returned to the original powder, and the fouling problems went away, but it was too late for the guns' reputation. Even now, I still hear tales of the gun jamming up for no reason. But when I get the gun to inspect, it has been so neglected by the user, that it wouldn't work without a full rebuild.

Not too long ago, I was given the enviable task of firing 10 M16A2's to destruction, fired at full auto (removed the burst clutch), only stopping long enough to swap magazines. Despite melted handguards, burnt-through gas tubes, launched flash hiders, broken pistol grips, cracked buttstocks, and heat discolored recievers...each weapon averaged 2400 rounds before it refused to fire. 4 were still able to fire after being hosed down, and 2 did not quit until they had fired over 6000 rounds each.

The AKs we did the same test to? Less than 1000 rounds before the forearms caught fire, buttstock bolts broke, mainsprings broke, gas tubes blew off, and complete bolt lock occured. Hosing off the guns did not make any difference, in fact one reciever snapped in two when the water hit it.

Accuracy? If you have an AK that shoots better than a 4" group at 100m, you have a high quality gun. If you have an M16 that won't shoot 1" at 100m, you have a bad barrel.

I'll take my sweet 16 over any current weapon, of any countrys' military.

Richard Marchinko writes fine fictional stories about his Red Cell and Team 6, but despite being a former SEAL Commander, he knows SQUAT about weapons and their capabilities. (BTW, in his "Rogue Warrior" autobio, he goes into great detail over the death of one of his team members. The very much alive and not wounded SEAL, says "Dick" is an idiot).

[AGD]

Speaking of Marchinko, one of my good friend has met and spent time with him and thinks he is a god. Goes for everything he says. I on the other hand spend a weekend in the booth across from him at a military show when he just published his first book. Not a single person came up and said anything to him or bought any of his books. I was wondering what the story was with the guy, good to hear some inside dope from people he writes about.

AGD

[zads27]

mm.. Exactly what Army said.. cept for the:
"I'll take my sweet 16 over any current weapon, of any countrys' military. " statement.

Sorry about this one, but I have to stick with HK's G36.. lots of polymer making for a fairly light assault rifle, folding stock, different sizes (full size, K series and the new C series), the very nice dual sighting system, pushpin field stripping (very fast), and most of all reliability reliability realiability.
HK tested a G36K for over 25,000 rounds without cleaning, without any failures.

I like the sweet 16 too, but gotta stick with HK on this one.

[Top Secret]

Gee, this thread changed topics fast! Lots a fellow gun owners here I see. :D

ARs and AKs suck! They will never eat the M1 carbine! :p

[magmonkey]

ARMY,
you are right on about the slop tollerences on the ak
I had one a chinese stamped reciver model and it was not a nice piece, but by far worse than that was the sks and the mac10 the sks was so sloppy that you could make it fire by litteraly shaking it too hard and the mac used to fall apart while firing (the bottom of the magizine would fall apart and then you would have to go searching for the sheet metal bottom the spring and a dozen or so 9mm rds)
ohh those were the days I'm glad I got rid of them

[sajohnston]

M1 Carbine the best battle rifle of all time? It is a plinker's toy at best. I own one manufactuered by Singer with an original paratrooper's stock. I bought it more for the stock than the weapon itself.

Like I said I hope you are kidding about it as a battle rifle.

[Top Secret]

Actually, the AK, M1 Carb, nor the AK are real battle rifles. A Main Battle Rifle is something like the G3, M14 or FAL. .308 holes make invisible souls! :D

I love my Inland Carbine though. Nice and compact with the Paratrooper stock. Excellent car gun.

[Gup44]

Have you guys seen the new OICW (Objective Individual Combat Weapon) that is supposed to replace alot of the M16's and M4's in combat by 2009? It is made by Alliant Tech Systems. It looks like a mean weapon. I used to live by an ATK factory so I looked them up on the web to see what they made. I was pleasantly supprised. I had often heard large "booms" from the direction of the factory, but never new what it was... Then after seeing this, I new they were just testing stuff!!

http://www.atk.com/defense/descriptions/products/Shoulder-firedWeapons/oicw-new.htm

[Hysperion]

I still agree with myself......the G-36 is by far the most reliable weapon system made. And zads27 the actual number was 46,000 rounds before failure. Granted this was not on full auto or probably even close but still....the reason it is able to do this is because whereas the M-16 blows all the carbon and crap right back into the gun after firing, the G-36 expels it.....

[zads27]

Actually I believe the G36 test was done on full auto, but don't quote me on that, I'm not sure.

In regards to the OICW, the actual weapon is being made by HK. The lower rifle portion is actually G36, with an M16 magazine adapter! (the military has a lot of those, I'm sure, right Army? ;) )

Each OICW is $10,000-$20,000 (last figure I read).. personally, I'd just get a MSG90 and a G36 myself for that much dough.

[giant1515]

where do you guys find the money to get those things. I can barely afford to play paintball. That and oh, aren't assault weapons supposed to be illegal in the US? I don't know the laws that well because i'm too broke to start looking for real guns but that was my impression. Are all you guys military or something?

[sajohnston]

The gov't has targeted certain aspects of guns (magazine capacity, stock configuration, etc) in an attempt to remove certain guns from the civilian market. Most of the guns people have been chatting about are legal to own in the US as semi-automatics. Full auto versions are only available to persons with a Class 9 license. In my opinion the most lethal gun is also the most unregulated- the shotgun. They are cheap, deadly at close quarters, most states have no waiting period on them and you don't even have to be a good shot with one.

A lot of us are military, collect guns and participate in many shooting sports. Guns are like tools, right one for the right task, that is why many people own more than one.

A few years as a "single guy" once you start a decent paying job and no matter what your hobbies are you will no doubt equip yourself nicely. Do it quickly, it all comes to a screaching halt the day you get married, and it goes into reverse when you atart having kids!

[cphilip]

FN was also an early maker of Browning designed guns. And if I am not mistaken they own a major share of the Company name of Browning.

Here is an excerpt from the oldest affiliation I could find between the two:

"July 17, 1897
A contract between Browning and Fabrique Nationale was signed which authorized the Belgium firm to manufacture a blowback operated 32 caliber semi-automatic pistol for all markets outside the United States. Production commenced in 1899."

And another one:

February 8, 1900
The first of four patents were filed on the revolutionary autoloading shotgun. It would be manufactured by Fabrique Nationale in 1903 and by Remington Arms Company in 1905."

And then some more developments in the history of FN and Browning:

January 1902
In a disagreement about the public acceptability of the autoloading shotgun, John Browning severed his nineteen year relationship with T.G. Bennet of Winchester.


January 8, 1902
An appointment was made to show the new shotgun to Mr. Marcellus Hartley of Remington. This meeting was canceled by Mr. Hartley's untimely death that afternoon.

February 1902
With his autoloading shotgun securely tucked under his arm, John Browning embarked on his first ocean voyage. He would offer the new shotgun to Fabrique Nationale.

March 24, 1902
A contract was signed granting F.N. exclusive world rights to manufacture and the sell the autoloading shotgun.

Summer 1903
At the request of F.N., Browning developed a 9mm military semi-automatic pistol.

1904
In the face of restrictive tariffs, F.N. agreed to cede to Remington the rights to manufacture and sell the autoloading shotgun in the United States.

June 21, 1909
The application for a patent on a 25 caliber semi-automatic pistol was filed. It has been manufactured and sold by both F.N. and Colt. It was part of the Browning Arms Co.

February 17, 1910
Patents were filed on a 45 caliber semi-automatic pistol. It served as the official United States military sidearm for almost 75 years.

July 26, 1919
Patent application filed on a 22 pump action rifle that would be produced exclusively by Fabrique Nationale

1936
Auto-5 "Sweet Sixteen" was introduced.

1940-1942
After the German occupation put a stop to Belgian production, Remington made an American made A-5 for Browning. This was their Model 11, but included the magazine cut-off which was not a part of the Model 11. U.S. entry into the War ended this production.

1945-1949
Remington resumed making American made A-5 for Browning until they discontinued production of the Model 11 to introduced their new 11-49 autoloader.

1946
F.N. resumes A-5 production

1958
Browning Arms of Canada created, 70% Browning owned, 30% F.N. owned. Also a 20 gauge model of the A-5 added to the line. 3" Auto-5 Mag 12 introduced.

1960
F.N. Mauser Bolt Action Rifle added to the line. Trombone 22 introduced to Canada.


1965
T-Bolt 22 rifle introduced. A line of leather goods including belts, holsters, and flexible gun cases also became available. Browning began negotiations with Miroku Firearms in Japan. Entered the sailboat business with the acquisition of Newport Boats of California and Virginia. Assets liquidated in 1976.

1977
90% of Browning Arms Company outstanding stock was purchased by F.N. and Miroku.

[giant1515]

I know that was opening a can of worms... very big ones. Fact is that I want to be able to own stuff like this but don't really know that much about the restrictions/requirements at the moment.

I'm about to graduate college here in a couple months so I've gotta start looking into it soon. I love shooting, heck that's what got me to try paintball honestly, a chance to shoot at someone else with something decidedly nonlethal. I'm not big on handguns, they're fun to shoot but like you said, shotguns are better for short range and you really don't have to aim, just point and pull... I'm particularly fond of my Dad's Remington. I think it's a 570 *really 870, thx cphillip for pointing out my typo :)* if my memory serves me correctly. I'm gonna have to try some of these listed on this thread out when i get enough $$ to start buying.

Its very cool that there are people on here that like real guns as much as paintball guns. This thread has made for some interesting reading. thanks to you guys who know what the heck you're talking about.

[cphilip]

Probabaly an 870 Remington Wingmaster? Not 570?

[giant1515]

i hit the wrong key on the keypad the phone keeps ringing here (i'm at work) and i get distracted. thx.

[cphilip]

I figured that. Love that old 870. still a king in pumps even today. I got one from the early 70's too.

[Trunnion]

sajohnston, you might wanna check on that carbine. the Singer did not make WWII carbines and only Inland Manufacturing made M1A1 paratrooper carbines. you may have a factory rebuild. if you'd like to know what things to look for to determine if it's original, email me and i'll give you a short list of things to look for. the carbine was not a combat rifle, and it was not intended to be. it was supposed to replace the pistol and the SMG, but never did. it was to equip rear echelon soldiers with something with greater range and power than a pistol, but was smaller and far more handy than a full rifle. and it did this job very well. i'm sure thousands of deceased Germans and Japanese can attest to that. zads, i thought(and please correct me if i'm wrong) that the OICW was supposed to supplement the M-16s in service, not replace them entirely. as you stated, they're very pricey, and i don't think even the military would want to spend that much money when they could have M16s and M14s for a tenth the price. Top Secret, I HATE YOU! i've been looking for an M1 carbine for almost a year now, and i can't find one worth buying. most of them are junk(though we found one that was all matching, but it was like 1700 bucks).

[HoppysMag]

I though Springfeild Armory made the M1's? cause i live right next to springfeild and have been to the armory muesum, because the actual factory is closed now..... Thanx a lot Nixon!!..... is there a diffrent springfeild armory... i heard of one in IL.

[Trunnion]

Springfield armory made M1 Garand rifles, but not the M1 Carbine. Carbines were made by Winchester, Inland, Underwood-Elliot-Fisher, Rock-Ola, Quality HMC, National Postal Mete, Irwin-Pederson(only made 1000 before they lost their contract), Standard Products, IBM, and Saginaw(another GM division). the M1 Garand rifles were made by Winchester and Springfield Armory

[HoppysMag]

O cool, thanx

[zads27]

Originally posted by Trunnion
... zads, i thought(and please correct me if i'm wrong) that the OICW was supposed to supplement the M-16s in service, not replace them entirely. as you stated, they're very pricey, and i don't think even the military would want to spend that much money when they could have M16s and M14s for a tenth the price.

You're correct, the OICW is indeed going to be a battlefield supplement to the M16.. the lower 'rifle' portion of the OICW is actually a G36K (most popular HK assault rifle), but it has a M16 magazine adapter on it! ...so after you use up all those 20mm pocket artillery shells, and all your 5.56mm mags, it makes sense to be able to use your buddy's M16 mags.. rather than stripping his M16 mags, and putting those rounds into your G36 mags ;)

One mistake, they are $10,000 - $12,000.. not 20 (oops)

Military plans an order of 45,000 OICWs.. not enough for all the military units out there, only for special units.

If you ask me, the OICW is kinda unwieldy for most people.. I do see the purpose of it, though.. I wouldn't mind having one in my squad having one of those titans..

[zads27]

Personally, I like the first firing prototype model ('96) of the OICW more. Looks much less of an armfull. But alas, looks aren't everything.

[Trunnion]

a few different weapons use M16 mags as standard. the enfield SA80 and SA80 carbine accept M16 mags and so does the FAMAS, the FN FNC, Singapore's SAR 80, the Cetme Assault Rifle Model L, and even the FN Minimi/M249

[Army]

From an insiders viewpoint, the OICW program has been put on the back burners, which is likely the deathnell for it and good riddance too!

The good folks who never ask the soldier what he wants in a weapon, had a slight mishap with the silly "electro" 20mm projo....it blew up in the gun!

That monstrosity would be rejected by any GI worth his socks. You can't carry it comfortably, it doesn't come to your shoulder well, it weighs too dang much, you can't go prone with it, the grenades ARE NOT any more effective than the current 40mm, and it's just not sexy. GI's love sexy guns. It's not "soldier proof", it's a royal pain to clean, and the sights really bite.

Other than that, it's a swell concept!

sajohnston, I'll bet you have a Saginaw. If you really have a Singer M1 Carbine, name your price! If you have a Singer 1911A1, I'll take that too!

[sajohnston]

My Carbine has been in storage almost two years (along with my mag) while I have been in the land of the morning calm. I could swear it was a singer- I know it does have a rebuild (blue sky) barrel and perhaps someone removed a fixed sock and replaced it with a paratrooper model. I bought the gun from one of my college buds, he had been storing it folded in a M60 barrel bag.

I cringe every time I see the OICW. I am a "rotorhead" as pointed out but I am also responsible for my squadron's arms room. Our squadron is around 320+ people so we have the usual assortment of M16A2s (no M4s yet), M203s, M249s, M9s, M2s, MK19s, NVSs and NVGs. For us "Armorer" is an additional duty, in other words a few soldiers maintain/issue weapons in addition to their MOS duties. It is a task to maintain our weapons with proficiency when is is someones extra job, let alone the annual turnover that is Korea. The OICW wil requiare a lengthy school and specialization for all of the componets it operates with- tactical laser, 20mm electronically fused grenade launcher, television and FLIR sensors. It is abslutely OBESE in weight. Not to sound high adn mighty but the whole Land warrior system is a little to much for the average soldier in my opinion.

[Trunnion]

i believe the blue sky barrel indicates a rebuild for the korean war. i don't know what companies, if any, made carbines after WWII. so it's entirely possible that your carbine is a post-war rebuild with a new stock. if it has a bayonet lug, it's almost certainly korean war

[dorksquad]

yo army while on the supject on 1911's have a 1911 in my posession that has no other markings than us gov or army the only markings are 1911 not 1911a1 or anything of that nature, i dont have it on me now but i remember an article in popluar mechanics about the early a1'a and espically the singer made ones, i think that mine is made before this, in is in good condition just fired a few clips through it and i was under the impression that it wasnt fired befroe me, it even came in a ratty old box that has us mail post markings on it. the gun was still wrappped, any how any info youcould provide would be helpful

[Trunnion]

maybe i can help. first off, if this is an unmodified M1911(as in not a rebuild) then it's a very rare piece. few M1911s were made and many that were got sent through the rebuild program. if it is a 1911, then it should be blued and not parkerized. you can tell the difference because a parkerized gun would have a dull and unreflective finish. also, check the grips. if they're checkered walnut then it's original. the rebuilds hade these replaced with plastic grips. if you could tell me exactly what is on the right hand side of the pistol, i MIGHT be able to tell you which it is. obviously, identifying the gun without seeing it is not easy. it appears that the right hand side of the slide should be marked "MODEL OF 1911.U.S.ARMY" if ti's a 1911. i'm ony working off of one source, but i believe your colt might be an original 1911

[Top Secret]

If I'm not mistaken, most M1 carbines were modified and updated to the M1A1 Carbine which included a bayonet lug for the M4 bayonet. It is pretty rare I think to find one without the bayonet lug. Mine is a M1A1.

[Trunnion]

actually a great many were modified to M2 carbine standards. these had a selective fire switch, the bayonet lug for aforementioned bayonet, and all had the round-topped bolt(some early M1s had a flat-topped bolt), but most often they retained the original stocks. only a few M1 carbines had the bayonet lug during late production. however, my source here doesn't indicate that carbines updated with lugs necessarily were updated with airborne stocks

[Army]

Standard 1911's (pre-1923) are sort of scarce, but not rare. Singers are rare, as only 500 were made and very few can be accounted for. The most rare, is the North American Arms version, made in Quebec. Only 100 were made as a test run. Only 4 genuine have been found since being made in 1918.

Where are the markings at? If on the slide only(are you sure there is NO serial number on the right side?), you MAY have a GI model.

If the markings are on the right side of the frame only, either above the right grip, or near the take-down pin, again, it MAY be a GI model. Many commercial guns left the factory marked US Model due to over-runs.

A 1911 model has a wide(front to back) trigger, no hump on the back of the grip, no scallop in the frame behind the trigger, the hammer spur curls over quite a bit, and the grip safety tang will be only as wide as the hammer.

A 1911A1 (designated in 1923) will have a very short trigger, less than a 1/4", a pronounced hump on the mainspring housing (like the first types of Emags..Tom knows!), a scallop to accomodate your trigger finger access, the hammer spur does not curl over near as much, and the grip safety tang is quite wide now.

If there is a serial number, and there should be as all 1911's made by Colt or contract was issued a number, it will be above or beneath the right grip panel. If it is a commercial variant, it will have a "C" and then the number. If GI, it will say "ser no." and then the number.

Check the front left of the trigger guard bow, there should be a stamp there that looks like a V and P joined together inside of a triangle, that designates a commercial frame. If it looks like letters inside circles, you have a GI frame.

You didn't give me much to go on, but all this should get you in the ballpark.

If you want more info, Email me with all the info you can about the gun, and I'll research it through military archives (I have access to the DOD data bank).

[dorksquad]

army

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more

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even more

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more pics

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us gov property

[Army]

...and here's your info!

1) Made in 1918 by Colt and confirmed to have been recieved by the US Army in that year (it was "this" close to have been Marine Corp marked, which are rather rare and very desirable).

2) Inspected and approved for aquisition by Gilbert H. Stewart (stamp behind the trigger on left side).

3)It has been Parkerized (the greenish finish, it's actually a phosphate), which was done to most military 1911's for WWII service, but many were refinished right after WWI. This unfortunately brings the monetary value down to (about) mid $400 range (from an original blued value of around $1000...sorry bud!).

4) The grip panels are still original and in great shape. 1911A1 grips have a diamond surrounding the grip screw.

5) I would put it in the NRA condition of over 90%, perhaps as high as 98% as I do not see any appreciable holster or useage wear. Do not take my estimate as a "for sure", since I cannot do a full inspection it the gun, so I can't really tell if it has been re-parkerized, or if that is the first job, nor can I see the internals to tell if all is original.

6) What you have is a very good shooter, unless you have a lot of sentimental value on it and do not wish to ruin that.

I am always looking out for a good condition 1911 to use in stock class IPPSA competition, yours is exactly what I will some day find! Hope this is the info you wanted. Dave

[Butterfingers]

In response to warlord in the first page.

larger caliber but less velocity.

kinetic energy is defined as 1/2mv^2

energy quadruples as speed doubles.

the 5.56 round has alot more velocty than a AK round.

Thus has a potential for greater range.

[hardr0ck68]

lol my dad would LOVE talkin to you guys. he used to collect old hunting rifles and shotguns (mostly late 1800 stuff) i dont know jack about them cept how to clean and shoot them but the collection will be all mine one day :D i own a couple shotguns but man are you guys out there!! i was just wounderin if anyone has anymore info on the military paintball stuff??

[hardr0ck68]

i could be wrong, but isnt the size of the bullet just one factor in its velocity?? dosent amount of powder and barrel length have effects?? i know my daddys .22-250 has a larger velocity than alot of his larger cal. rifles but his 50 cal beats all... like i said guns are his thing paintball is mine but it just dosent seem right to assume that since one rifle takes a lighter round that its velocity will be greater than a rifle shootin larger bore rounds, isnt there more to take into consideration??