Actual Paintball Calibur

[El Zilcho]

I have been looking into the Underbore vs Overbore debate, can anyone tell me where to find accurate paintball caliber data? Most data I find is out of date.

[OPBN]

Are you meaning the size of specific brands? If so, i never really understood needing this knowledge. Nearly every field I go to is FPO, so I never have the option of buying paint specifically for its size. I would think rather than worrying about what size paint is what, just buy a versatile barrel kit so you are prepared either way. Freaks come with a pretty wide range of sizes and I know there is even a guy over on MCB that is making smaller inserts if needed.

As for knowing exact caliber of paint, I question how accurate this is. I know I have gotten a case of paint where it varied by size between bags.

[El Zilcho]

Are you meaning the size of specific brands? If so, i never really understood needing this knowledge. Nearly every field I go to is FPO, so I never have the option of buying paint specifically for its size. I would think rather than worrying about what size paint is what, just buy a versatile barrel kit so you are prepared either way. Freaks come with a pretty wide range of sizes and I know there is even a guy over on MCB that is making smaller inserts if needed.

As for knowing exact caliber of paint, I question how accurate this is. I know I have gotten a case of paint where it varied by size between bags.
If I play at the same two fields and they both use rps premium, why would I buy a $100+ Freak kit when I can buy a ≈ $30 barrel and have the same results? What is the variation in case of paint? That's what I am trying to find.

[kcombs9]

the caliber of paint changes from case to case (not a lot) and the area your in, high or low humidity.

Best way is to have a sizer with you and size the paint when you start playing and pick your barrel according.

Cockerpunk has done testing and has some data on this topic, but I don't think you will find a list of caliber for each brand cause it would never stay "Accurate"

[tigar19]

Even within a single bag of paint some will be bigger and some will be smaller than the average. Therefore, you will be receiving the advantages and disadvantages of overboring and underboring via a single barrel.

In short, I don't think the difference is material.

[El Zilcho]

Even within a single bag of paint some will be bigger and some will be smaller than the average. Therefore, you will be receiving the advantages and disadvantages of overboring and underboring via a single barrel.

In short, I don't think the difference is material.
I am not sure I agree with you. There must be some nominal size that the manufacturer is shooting for, lets say .685. Of course there is going to be some variability but I would hope that the manufacturer has some sort of set requirements for dimensions. I can't imagine that they would send out .682 and .689 in the same case. Maybe I am wrong. If I am shooting with a .679 barrel, .682 would be fine but I would think that .689 or larger would be an issue. I guess my question should have been, how much variability is there in given case of paint?

[Hobbez]

As a general rule, the higher quality paint that you buy, the more consistent the diameter. I have seen white box paint vary literally from .680 to .691 in the same bag. If you only play in a few places, then get some of that paint, measure it, and buy a barrel accordingly.

[OPBN]

If I play at the same two fields and they both use rps premium, why would I buy a $100+ Freak kit when I can buy a ≈ $30 barrel and have the same results? What is the variation in case of paint? That's what I am trying to find.
I play at multiple fields and a lot of them seem to switch brands quite often, so I didn't take your scenario into consideration. However, as others have pointed out, there can be variations from bag to bag. I used the Freak as an example, you can find used kits in other brands for quite a bit less. I actually have a Evil Pipe kit for sale with 4 backs that I would be willing to sell for $50-60 depending on where someone is.

All I am saying is you cannot always count on the paint being the same on any given day. As KCombs pointed out, paint can even vary due to the weather. I have had days where I started out with one insert and as it got hotter and more humid had to switch to a larger insert because the paint began to swell. If you are trying to overbore/underbore, the only correct way to do it properly is with an actual barrel kit.

[El Zilcho]

I play at multiple fields and a lot of them seem to switch brands quite often, so I didn't take your scenario into consideration. However, as others have pointed out, there can be variations from bag to bag. I used the Freak as an example, you can find used kits in other brands for quite a bit less. I actually have a Evil Pipe kit for sale with 4 backs that I would be willing to sell for $50-60 depending on where someone is.

All I am saying is you cannot always count on the paint being the same on any given day. As KCombs pointed out, paint can even vary due to the weather. I have had days where I started out with one insert and as it got hotter and more humid had to switch to a larger insert because the paint began to swell. If you are trying to overbore/underbore, the only correct way to do it properly is with an actual barrel kit.
Ah, so the truth is revealed, it was all a sales pitch ;) , maybe you are right though, New Hampshire can have such varied weather that perhaps it would be a good idea to have a kit. Something to think about, maybe I will just start with a single barrel and then buy a kit later on when my wife is not looking, ha.

[OPBN]

Ah, so the truth is revealed, it was all a sales pitch ;) , maybe you are right though, New Hampshire can have such varied weather that perhaps it would be a good idea to have a kit. Something to think about, maybe I will just start with a single barrel and then buy a kit later on when my wife is not looking, ha.
Honestly, even with the multiple kits I have, I find myself a lot of times going back to a .691 J&J barrel that I bought as a backup a couple of years ago. Especially on days where I am at a BYOP field and there is a wide range on the paint size.

There is a theory thats been put out there by some "pros" where they actually endorse just using a larger bore barrel and skipping the whole underbore thing. Less hassle, less chance of breaking paint etc.

[river031403]

A couple of months ago i played with a barrel kit for the first time ever. WHAT A DIFFERENCE!! :clap:
I was hitting everything i aimed at opposed to paint zinging left and right of the opposing players. It's so much better knowing that your pretty much going to hit what you aim for instead of letting out 4-5 shots to maybe hit another player by then they know where you are shooting from.BIG THANKS to lasrsktr here on AO letting me try out his freak kit :D Im a big time believer on matching your paint with a barrel kit instead of over or under boring its worth the investment since thats why we buy the paint is to shoot it and hit someone with it!!! :headbang:

[El Zilcho]

A couple of months ago i played with a barrel kit for the first time ever. WHAT A DIFFERENCE!! :clap:
I was hitting everything i aimed at opposed to paint zinging left and right of the opposing players. It's so much better knowing that your pretty much going to hit what you aim for instead of letting out 4-5 shots to maybe hit another player by then they know where you are shooting from.BIG THANKS to lasrsktr here on AO letting me try out his freak kit :D Im a big time believer on matching your paint with a barrel kit instead of over or under boring its worth the investment since thats why we buy the paint is to shoot it and hit someone with it!!! :headbang:
Now this is interesting because the information that I have seen has indicated that bore matching is the least consistent method of choosing a barrel. From what I have gathered (online investigation only) under boring seems to be the most consistent followed by over boring and then matching. I have also read that barrels don't have that much influence over accuracy given the physics of a sphere in flight. I don't doubt your comments, I find them intriguing.

[Justus]

Yeah, if it's a quality barrel (meaning, straight tube) then the only real thing it's going to affect is the consistency of velocity. That, in turn, affects where your shots drop off at a distance. However, a barrel has virtually no impact on whether a shot veers off left or right - that's a function of good quality paint with no dimples and low seams.

[Drix]

This question has been around for literally 10+ years with no firm answer. As such I slide it in the realm of it only matters if you think it does. The only thing I've ever noticed is underboring too much can break your paint, overboring decreases your efficiency, accuracy stays pretty much the same. I Overbore for tourneys, underbore in the woods.

If you want to get all crazy start looking at the Techpb threads for what they've come up with, they put way more science into it than we do.

[Hobbez]

I don't know anything about any fancy science behind overboring vs. underboring vs. bore matching. I've read dozens of "tests" and about a zillion discussions of the subject. What I DO know is that 25+ years of playing has taught me the following:

Underboring can increase efficiency, but also increases ball breaks.

Overboring will leave you with an empty tank in the middle of a game.

Bore matching is decently efficient while preventing breaks.

As far as accuracy, your barrel doesnt matter for squat.... Paint quality is the biggest factor in accuracy followed by a consistant shooting stance and being familiar with your gun.

As I said, all this is personal experience. Hundreds of barrels and thousands of games worth of it. Take it or leave it.

FYI, My Sarah and I both use freak kits and bore match.

[river031403]

I don't know anything about any fancy science behind overboring vs. underboring vs. bore matching. I've read dozens of "tests" and about a zillion discussions of the subject. What I DO know is that 25+ years of playing has taught me the following:

Underboring can increase efficiency, but also increases ball breaks.

Overboring will leave you with an empty tank in the middle of a game.

Bore matching is decently efficient while preventing breaks.

As far as accuracy, your barrel doesnt matter for squat.... Paint quality is the biggest factor in accuracy followed by a consistant shooting stance and being familiar with your gun.

As I said, all this is personal experience. Hundreds of barrels and thousands of games worth of it. Take it or leave it.

FYI, My Sarah and I both use freak kits and bore match.
^^^^^thats what im saying^^^^^
I used the same paint without a barrel kit, my accuracy was so so. But the moment I used the freak kit it was an amazing difference same crappy field paint spectrum xo but what i experienced was hit after hit after hit almost did'nt seem fair. :cheers:

[Drix]

^^^^^thats what im saying^^^^^
I used the same paint without a barrel kit, my accuracy was so so. But the moment I used the freak kit it was an amazing difference same crappy field paint spectrum xo but what i experienced was hit after hit after hit almost did'nt seem fair. :cheers:

Chances are you just had a **** barrel to begin with. I use a Dye UL, Full Freak and J+J interchangably when I play because I usually use 2 guns in a day, sometimes 3 (I'll start with something heavy and get lighter, eventually I go semi-auto to save paint late afternoon). Aside from efficiency and breaks I notice no difference, accuracy remains the same between all 3 barrels.

[kcombs9]

I don't know anything about any fancy science behind overboring vs. underboring vs. bore matching. I've read dozens of "tests" and about a zillion discussions of the subject. What I DO know is that 25+ years of playing has taught me the following:

Underboring can increase efficiency, but also increases ball breaks.

Overboring will leave you with an empty tank in the middle of a game.

Bore matching is decently efficient while preventing breaks.

As far as accuracy, your barrel doesnt matter for squat.... Paint quality is the biggest factor in accuracy followed by a consistant shooting stance and being familiar with your gun.

As I said, all this is personal experience. Hundreds of barrels and thousands of games worth of it. Take it or leave it.

FYI, My Sarah and I both use freak kits and bore match.


Agree, I have a kit, mostly for efficiency purposes, and so I don't have to worry about if I get into some really large paint no worry about breaks

[Frizzle Fry]

Ah, so the truth is revealed, it was all a sales pitch ;) , maybe you are right though, New Hampshire can have such varied weather that perhaps it would be a good idea to have a kit. Something to think about, maybe I will just start with a single barrel and then buy a kit later on when my wife is not looking, ha.
I play just a few miles south and buy premium $60-$70 per case paint. Same field, same brand... I've found consistency bag to bag in a case of paint (I insist on sealed boxes no mix'n match) but from one production run to another, or one chilly dry day to one hot humid one, I've found that sizes vary greatly. I usually overbore a little bit because I want efficiency but I know paint won't stay round forever. I don't get breaks, and haven't since I went with a kit.

Closed bolt is a different story.

[river031403]

Chances are you just had a **** barrel to begin with. I use a Dye UL, Full Freak and J+J interchangably when I play because I usually use 2 guns in a day, sometimes 3 (I'll start with something heavy and get lighter, eventually I go semi-auto to save paint late afternoon). Aside from efficiency and breaks I notice no difference, accuracy remains the same between all 3 barrels.

that's weird i thought dye didnt make **** barrels. maybe you should try a fourth gun and grow some biceps so you dont have to fight fatigue and go to a lighter gun ;) :p :) :rofl:

[Frizzle Fry]

that's weird i thought dye didnt make **** barrels. maybe you should try a fourth gun and grow some biceps so you dont have to fight fatigue and go to a lighter gun ;) :p :) :rofl:

DYE has made some **** barrels. I love DYE, I think they do an excellent job with many things, and I've got more respect for them than most companies, but to deny that they've made some crappy parts (especially in the barrel department) is just silly. Some Xcellerators came out of the factory with a tighter bore at the tip than the control bore itself, the early carbon fiber stuff wasn't coated so it sparked when debris got into the barrel (sometimes unraveling), and some of the Boomsticks I've seen either wouldn't thread properly (late gen) or came unglued on the field within a year of use (early gen).

Every company has a product they're not proud of, a first gen item that had problems solved in a later model, or a project or product that was shelved because it just didn't work or wasn't worth making work... The problem is that forums, ebay and even distributors don't discriminate. Look at all the people who bought defective chinese autocockers on ebay for cheap, or crummy Shocktech autococker frames that don't work, "rain tips" or "undershot barrels" that have no effect on performance, automag "upgrade" mod boxes or regulator backs.

I'm not saying your barrel is necessarily crap, or that you have a lemon, just that when you're not buying new from a proshop or direct from the mfg, there's a good chance you can end up with a lemon product or "blem" unit - often times they outnumber the "good ones" and most don't end up at the dump. It's not easy to tell.

[river031403]

DYE has made some **** barrels. I love DYE, I think they do an excellent job with many things, and I've got more respect for them than most companies, but to deny that they've made some crappy parts (especially in the barrel department) is just silly. Some Xcellerators came out of the factory with a tighter bore at the tip than the control bore itself, the early carbon fiber stuff wasn't coated so it sparked when debris got into the barrel (sometimes unraveling), and some of the Boomsticks I've seen either wouldn't thread properly (late gen) or came unglued on the field within a year of use (early gen).

Every company has a product they're not proud of, a first gen item that had problems solved in a later model, or a project or product that was shelved because it just didn't work or wasn't worth making work... The problem is that forums, ebay and even distributors don't discriminate. Look at all the people who bought defective chinese autocockers on ebay for cheap, or crummy Shocktech autococker frames that don't work, "rain tips" or "undershot barrels" that have no effect on performance, automag "upgrade" mod boxes or regulator backs.

I'm not saying your barrel is necessarily crap, or that you have a lemon, just that when you're not buying new from a proshop or direct from the mfg, there's a good chance you can end up with a lemon product or "blem" unit - often times they outnumber the "good ones" and most don't end up at the dump. It's not easy to tell.

I agree with you with dye. I have a slg ul and they took care of it all for free gave me an extra board,bolt lots of other goodies kept in contact and hooked my gun up,I no longer have issue with the slg ul.They are great for customer service.

[Frizzle Fry]

I agree with you with dye. I have a slg ul and they took care of it all for free gave me an extra board,bolt lots of other goodies kept in contact and hooked my gun up,I no longer have issue with the slg ul.They are great for customer service.

I had a Gen1 SLG, stripped the eyecover holes, stripped the feedneck, I contacted them (not to complain, just to let them know what happened) and told them I was going to drill out and tap the holes myself but that there was a problem, and they replaced the marker. From what I understand the QC had gotten much better with that model, but they definitely helped out more than anything I've encountered.

[Drix]

that's weird i thought dye didnt make **** barrels. maybe you should try a fourth gun and grow some biceps so you dont have to fight fatigue and go to a lighter gun ;) :p :) :rofl:

I start my day with a shoebox shocker, you go run around the woods all day with that thing :-p

[river031403]

I start my day with a shoebox shocker, you go run around the woods all day with that thing :-p

ok ship it! if you cant handle it i will :D :shooting:

[PsychoMag]

back on the barrel bore discussion. When I was playing speedball for years, we all shot a .693 bore no matter what paint we shot. .693 was our teams golden rule. Although you may have a small bore paint like marballizer, add some humidity or dampness from a passing shower and your bore is out the window. I would never go for an underbore because you waste just as much air forcing a ball down the control bore because of drag as you do with an overbore with blowby. We had not so great air efficiency, but we had minimal breaks even with the poorest of cheap tourney paint. The physics behind the paintball has been talked about for years now and I always stumble onto an article and they are all the same, nobody has a true answer. I have been playing since 1990 and by mid 90s, the science of accuracy and barrels was on. I tend to get better shot accuracy with a properly matched dry shell paint and a decent control bore. stepped barrels are usually .700 anyways, so once a ball hits speed and passes the control bore it is wide open, like a crazy overbore. We had a discussion on here years ago and if I remember right someone had a great point about air and how it distorts the ball when the air impacts it in the breach.

In the end, I will match my paint to a bore and if it is humid, I will recheck it throughout the day. If I were still a competitive baller I would be shooting my .693 bore so I dont worry about that break that messes up my game.