Mag sitting in closet for 8 years.... HELP!

[BTAutoMag]

company I work for is going on a paintball outting and I was extatic. gave me a reason to dust off my mag after 8 years of celebacy and finaly play again! so I grab it and take it apart, lubing and inspecting all the o-rings, replacing what needed.


hook up air and it shoots first pull. and second... so i decide that running a full tank of air through it before caling it quits is a good idea so i just keep going. and after a dozen shots the bolt doesnt seat right. i diss then re connect the air and it worked great for 5 more shots, then it just stopped firing. I could feel in the trigger that it was still getting pressure to the on off but it just wasnt doing anything.

luckly I did all this 2 weeks before the game so I have some time. I used to be good at all this but I'm baffled. I work all through the time that AGD is open and am going to be unable to call tech.

someone help :cry:


PS, my number is 920-838-II8I
names, Zac, call if you can walk me through something

[ochsy]

Are you sure your not out of air? It maybe just don't have the pressure to reset the sear

[BTAutoMag]

well I had to go buy a new tank and they filled it... if all I got was 20+ shots out of a 20oz fill... wow

[C_losjoker]

What's your set up? Classic, rt valve, level?

[BTAutoMag]

rofl. I've been gone for a while and its wierd for someone to ask ME what my setup is when if you mention my name to Tom he'll be able to describe it to you,


ah memories....

"verticaly" mounted co2 tank with an expantion chamber and an old school classic valve.

thats all that you need to worry about

[Ando]

You did push oil through the marker right? Change your bolt spring out and see if that helps any.

EDIT:

Since you were running Co2. Did you happen to get any in the valve?

[BTAutoMag]

yes, re-read my first post.


no, i'm very careful with co2

i'm gonna bring my tank back and get it filled again... :cuss:

[sQuidvision]

yes, re-read my first post.
I know you said you re-oiled them, but it sounds like you did it directly in the first post... i think Ando was wondering if you dropped any Oil in the ASA and fired it through the mag. I know i have oiled things directly and not had it work until i actually shot the oil through. food for thought i guess.

[athomas]

Do you have a level 10 bolt installed?

[Justus]

My guess was a Level 7 bolt since it's been sitting in a closet or 8 years and is on a Classic valve running CO2. Don't Level 7 bolts have a tendency to stick or hang up if the spacer is incorrect? If not, then it sounds like a worn bolt spring.

[BTAutoMag]

i did run oil through it

there is a lvl 10 in it. Although if there was an update on it I'm unaware of then I dont have it. I got it from the first factory run of them. I set it up myself and I know I did it correctly becuase I went down to the factory and had them double check my setup.

[athomas]

Since your mag has been sitting for a long time, I would retune the level 10 setup. Remove all the shims from your powertube. Then, using the same white powertube oring each time, find the largest carrier size that does not produce a leak. Don't bother putting the shims back in.

Next find out the proper spring to use. Turn down the velocity adjuster quite far. Air up the mag and gradually turn up the velocity adjuster until the gun fires. Check the velocity of a ball at that setting. Adjust the velocity to about 20 fps above the initial starting value. The new setting is the optimum setting for your mag using the spring you have installed at the time. If the velocity is too high for the field requirements, you will need to use a shorter/lighter bolt spring. If the velocity is quite a bit lower than the velocity you want to shoot at, install a stiffer bolt spring. Check the starting velocity each time you change springs and adjust accordingly.

[BTAutoMag]

see now that post is why I came here.

cause i know that used to make sense to me, lol

[Henchman]

Make sure you don't tighten the field strip screw too tight as well.

[BTAutoMag]

lol, never.

[BTAutoMag]

here, found this. my setup

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=257196

PS, Tom loved the setup

[BTAutoMag]

went to get the tank filled today and the gun was indeed out of air... that gave me the fill at 1/2 price though cause I wasnt very happy with them

[BTAutoMag]

visited the field today and as of 5 days ago are not doing co2 anymore :(

so now I am converting it over to compressed air.

ran a full 20oz co2 and a tank of air through it and it shot great... until i did some mock paintball roleplaying in the shop...

long story short I ended up on the floor laughing cause the rubber piece on the lvl 10 bolt came off and shot my boss in the balls :clap: :rofl:

I pwned him :shooting: didnt even need a hopper

[ochsy]

ahh haa, see another reason to switch over to hpa, I have heard of this many times, the shops dont fill co2 correct and people think they have full tanks. I have kids that come over to play and get thier tanks filled in town for $6 a piece and they never last long, even when I tell them I'll fill them for a couple bucks they still insist on a hardware store to fill thier tanks. Anyway I'm glad it wasnt anything major and your back in action

[BTAutoMag]

yea funny thing is I was glad I'm not an idiot and not forgetting how to set it up... but I was out of air. and idiot move

[BTAutoMag]

ok I have run some air through the gun and noticed 2 things.

1) after a couple shots it stops firing and starts leaking down the barrel until I hold the trigger and then I can go a couple more. I also can't shoot more then 8 bps without it doing the same thing. I have re-tuned the lvl 10 to use the lowest friction spacer and have tried all the different springs (I can't believe I'm proud of packratting those for 10 years) any suggestions?

2) its a gas hog. I mean seriously. Holy crap. I have chronoed it at 280 and I still can barely get over 1 hopper out of a 48CI tank.

[Henchman]

2) its a gas hog. I mean seriously. Holy crap. I have chronoed it at 280 and I still can barely get over 1 hopper out of a 48CI tank.
that's definitely not normal. You shod be abe to get at least a hopper and 2-3 pods.

[athomas]

The average mag should get about 500 shots from a 48ci 3000psi tank and about 900 from a 48ci 4500psi tank. If you are running a short barrel or one with lots of porting, the efficiency goes down and the number of shots will be lower than that.

Check your sear. If it is worn, the bolt may be sitting a tiny bit forward and the bolt stem vent hole may be partially exposed causing your leak. The act of firing and the bolt resetting is not always consistent when dealing with a manual trigger. Any additional friction due to the sear or due to short stroking can change the position of the bolt with respect to the vent hole a tiny bit. When you hold the trigger you are allowing the bolt to fully reset without any restriction. Then when you release, everything is fine.

[BTAutoMag]

I know I'm not short stroking. I've been shooting a mag for a LONG time. I just no longer know the valve like the back of my hand, lo

[Henchman]

Make sure the field strip screw isn't too tight.

[BTAutoMag]

Make sure you don't tighten the field strip screw too tight as well.


you mentioned that :rolleyes:

[OPBN]

Above, you mention shooting some air through right before saying its a gas hog. Just making sure are you actually shooting paint? When dry firing, it will be considerably less efficient. It may be an obvious statement, but you just mentioned running air through it, not necessarily that you were shooting paint. I'm always amazed at how fast I can blow through a tank of air when I am just teching a marker.

Also, did you check the oring on the Level X power tube tip?

[BTAutoMag]

I checked all the orings in the gun. although i am getting really annoyed and will probably replace them all :mad:

[athomas]

I know I'm not short stroking. I've been shooting a mag for a LONG time. I just no longer know the valve like the back of my hand, loThat's not what I meant. I actually meant a short stroke as a quick release rather than pulling the trigger too soon after a release. I shouldn't have worded it as a short stroke because it really isn't. A quick release allows the sear to rub the bottom of the bolt before it is reset, adding friction to the bolt reset cycle. It's not a problem unless other friction factors are near the breaking point, at which time any additional friction could tip the scale causing a failure.

[BTAutoMag]

I've been trying to call the tech line bust GEEZ!!!!!

I miss AGDjon :(

[BTAutoMag]

should probably mention that it leaks slightly out of the reg when you reach a pressure that will shoot

[sQuidvision]

That would likely be your reg seat oring... Make sure it's in in the correct orientation and that it is super clean and oiled. If it is and you still leak swap it out.

[BTAutoMag]

if youre talking about the flat thick hockey puck with the little hole in it, I did swap it out and oil it... if youre not talking about that one... then help me out a little more.

[sQuidvision]

if youre talking about the flat thick hockey puck with the little hole in it, I did swap it out and oil it... if youre not talking about that one... then help me out a little more.
Between the two valve halfs right? Yea that's the one... That has a right and wrong side, it should 'snap' into place... Just make sure it's in there the right way.

[BTAutoMag]

it should 'snap' into place...

ahhh, I will check

[athomas]

should probably mention that it leaks slightly out of the reg when you reach a pressure that will shootHave you ever had the regulator piston assembly upgraded to the new higher pressure version? The higher pressures of the level 10 system often cause venting out the back when the pressure is high enough to shoot at the required velocity, especially if the regulator piston assembly has some internal wear on it from use.

Get one of the new higher pressure pistons and you will be good to go.

[BTAutoMag]

Have you ever had the regulator piston assembly upgraded to the new higher pressure version? The higher pressures of the level 10 system often cause venting out the back when the pressure is high enough to shoot at the required velocity, especially if the regulator piston assembly has some internal wear on it from use.

Get one of the new higher pressure pistons and you will be good to go.


neat, never knew this. where do I get one of these magical pistons

[athomas]

neat, never knew this. where do I get one of these magical pistonsAll the new pistons from AGD are the high pressure versions now. Order the one for your valve from AGD and you will be good to go.

[BTAutoMag]

turns out that high buildup of paint and powdercoat between the body and rail can cause problems too.

[Justus]

Have you ever had the regulator piston assembly upgraded to the new higher pressure version? The higher pressures of the level 10 system often cause venting out the back when the pressure is high enough to shoot at the required velocity, especially if the regulator piston assembly has some internal wear on it from use.

Get one of the new higher pressure pistons and you will be good to go.
For your venting out the back problems, ^^ this.

The reg seat is likely the culprit when your velocity gets erratic (keep that in mind for the future). But when it just vents out the back whenever you turn it up to a normal field velocity, that's the reg piston like athomas pointed out.

[BTAutoMag]

so this:

http://store.airgun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.prodInfo&prodId=1803

[Ando]

Yes

[BTAutoMag]

sweet, unfortunatly tomorow is game day so its going in with a reg leak :(

[Ando]

I'm sending you a PM :ninja:

[BTAutoMag]

you lie :rolleyes:

[Ando]

ck again. :rolleyes:

[BTAutoMag]

woo hoo :clap: :bounce: :dance: :cheers: :spit_take :shooting: :headbang: :wow:

[athomas]

sweet, unfortunatly tomorow is game day so its going in with a reg leak :(If you use the shorter level 7 bolt spring, the operating pressure will be lower so it won't leak as bad if at all.

[BTAutoMag]

already did that.

as soon as I hit 280 FPS it starts leaking out of the reg. gun stops shooting at 250 FPS

[athomas]

Set it for 270 fps until you get a new piston. 270 is more than adequate. Most of the velocity is lost in the first few feet as the ball exits the barrel. The effect is more dramatic at higher velocities due to the increase in air friction, so even if a drop from 290fps to 270fps represents a 7% decrease in velocity setting, it might only result in a 4% change in velocity at 50ft where your target is.