Disgusted?

[Drix]

I'm not even sure how the logic flows in this one (http://www.insideedition.com/news/8605/is-there-a-paintball-connection-in-movie-massacre.aspx). I e-mailed these guys with a rather lengthy letter highlighting the differences between woodsball and speedball, the usleessness of smoke, and even an offer to foot the bill for a game up here.

But do you think the paintball sport may be in for another publicity hosing?

[sQuidvision]

uhg... i read this over on x7og.net... completely ridiculous.

Edit: your link wasnt working... here is the article:

http://www.insideedition.com/news/8605/is-there-a-paintball-connection-in-movie-massacre.aspx

[Drix]

I especially love "Pull the pin and just drop it and throw it"

Remind me never to go into battle with the firechief- I'm pretty sure you pull the pin, THEN throw.

[koleah]

I especially love "Pull the pin and just drop it and throw it"

Remind me never to go into battle with the firechief- I'm pretty sure you pull the pin, THEN throw.

Can't tell if:

"Pull the pin and just drop [the pin] and throw [the grenade]"
Or
"Pull the pin and just drop [the grenade] and throw [the pin]"

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/006/026/futuramafry.jpg







Or maybe "Pull the pin and just drop it [like its hot, just drop it like its hot, just drop it like its hot]" :headbang:

[dboggs79]

I love how every time something tragic like this happens someone always tries to make a connection to something else. How about the guy is just mentally ill? Its not like he bought the smoke grenade and automatically thought "hey I bet these would be great use while shooting random people".

[OPBN]

Why can't you guys just admit that this guy using smoke bombs and having a paintball poster proves that we are all psychotic timebombs?

[stimpysan]

many, many moons ago there was a piece done on our local news about this paramilitary group in New Milford Pa. Then it was on the Mortan Downey show and it stated how people where coming from all over the east coast to train here and possibly over throw the government.

We now know and love this place as E.M.R. We also know Blue could be the ruler of the free world but it would cut into his having fun time so that was never an option. That was almost 20 years ago and people still don't get it and never will. Almost everyone in this country is crazy now anyway so maybe it will bring more people to the sport! Who knows. :shooting: :shooting:

[Frizzle Fry]

Why can't you guys just admit that this guy using smoke bombs and having a paintball poster proves that we are all psychotic timebombs?

I had a refrigerator full of human heads in my basement YEARS before I pickup up a paintball marker...

Seriously though, the media needs to get off of this. Crazy people are crazy people and they do crazy things. Why can't we just blame this on Marylin Manson and be done with it?

[OPBN]

I have a theory, and it may be crap, but it is a theory that I feel has some vailidity. I think part of the problem is that the people wanting to blame paintball for glorifying violence and compare it to paramilitary training for wannabee psychos, are the same ones trying to claim that competitiion is bad and that everyone should get a trophy and recognition even if they totally suck at something. My theory is that as children, they were unathletic kids that did not excel at sports, but tended to be fairly intelligent. As they got older, due to their better education levels because they studied rather than dating or having fun, they began to take positions of power such as prinicpals, civic leaders, city administrators, journalists etc. So now we have a bunch of people in power that were chastised and beaten up because they were band geeks and now they are getting their revenge on society by trying to ban all the things that they werent good at. How many times have we heard how important music and the arts are in school while hearing how evil it is to spend money on sports?

Just a thought.

[BTAutoMag]

~facepalm!~

[Frizzle Fry]

How many times have we heard how important music and the arts are in school while hearing how evil it is to spend money on sports?

I would tend to agree with almost everything except that last bit - these days schools are cutting music AND intramural sports, even though the studies show that strong music and low key athletic programs make for better, more well-rounded students (and better grades). I won't touch team sports - frankly it's a little sad when a school can't afford basic supplies but has a brand new $15m turf field that only 65 students can use, but that's not always the case...

But yeah, **** generation cupcake and the lack of competition in schools. When you grow up getting constant handouts and with minimal performance expectations, you're gonna struggle to get by in the real world... Then you find yourself hanging out in a disgusting tent city in front of the statehouse for two months asking for more handouts or lower expectations instead of getting whatever job you can and doing the best you can.

[BTAutoMag]

just a thought:

high school football IMO is more violent then paintball... so why dont we ever hear that football was an influence in someones violent. I myself was always bullied by the football player in school. but the sport I play in has to be the cause of violence cause football is a profesional sport... LIKE HOCKEY :cuss:

[OPBN]

frankly it's a little sad when a school can't afford basic supplies but has a brand new $15m turf field that only 65 students can use, but that's not always the case...
.
Our athletic programs are almost entirely supported by the local athletic boosters and ticket sales. If IIRC, only 2% on average comes out of the school budget. And in our small village, probably close to 50% of kids participate in one or more sports. MAYBE 10% of kids participate in band.

Edit: I also want to make it clear that I have no issues with funding the music and arts. I personally think both are important for those that choose to participate in those programs. Another note is that our band program is well funded by the band boosters. There is no shortage of money for those wanting to participate in band.

[Arstron]

INSIDE EDITION found dozens of videos on YouTube talking about how paintballers can use smoke to avoid detection and create chaos.

I like this part. Really, on youtube you could only find a couple dozen video's of how paintballers can use smoke bombs? Compare that to the number of other paintball videos to see how useful/popular smoke is. The 4th of July just past, how do we know they weren't sold at a fire works stand? Maybe the 4th of july is Just to violent. :tard:

[Frizzle Fry]

Our athletic programs are almost entirely supported by the local athletic boosters and ticket sales. If IIRC, only 2% on average comes out of the school budget. And in our small village, probably close to 50% of kids participate in one or more sports. MAYBE 10% of kids participate in band.

Like I said, it's not everywhere every time, but I've seen my local school system flirt with accreditation for about a decade and while only about 5% of the budget goes to athletics, the athletic fund raising seems to CRUSH any fundraising for the library or computer lab or classroom funds to buy the basics (desks, chairs, whiteboards) and the school keeps getting screwed for not having those things.

When I was a varsity wrestler, I bought my uniform (singlet, shoes, headgear, robes)... The guys who didn't have the cash got hand-me-downs from a donation bin left by wrestlers who'd graduated. The band operated the same way - bring your own instrument or hope that there's hand-me-down.

I dunno man, I think extracurricular programs are just that, extracurricular, and should remain that way.

[OPBN]

Like I said, it's not everywhere every time, but I've seen my local school system flirt with accreditation for about a decade and while only about 5% of the budget goes to athletics, the athletic fund raising seems to CRUSH any fundraising for the library or computer lab or classroom funds to buy the basics (desks, chairs, whiteboards) and the school keeps getting screwed for not having those things.


I might also add that we have a K-12 school building that is only 5 years old and our communities portion was funded by a self imposed levy. All of our classrooms have computer centers and other up to date equipment. There is very little our school is lacking and we constantly score very well on our rankings. We're also a very blue collar/agricultural based community that realizes the value of hard work and a good education for our kids. But now we are way off topic.

[Frizzle Fry]

But now we are way off topic.

Welcome to AO :p

I hope we find out this guy owned a Prius and lived off Tofu and Qinua... Maybe they can link that to being a nutcase.

[OPBN]

Welcome to AO :p

I hope we find out this guy owned a Prius and lived off Tofu and Qinua... Maybe they can link that to being a nutcase.
I'm surprised the right hasn't linked his being a scientist (and therefore an atheist) to his lack of morality.

[Frizzle Fry]

I'm surprised the right hasn't linked his being a scientist (and therefore an atheist) to his lack of morality.

...would that make him a "mad scientist"?

[Dayspring]

I like this part. Really, on youtube you could only find a couple dozen video's of how paintballers can use smoke bombs? Compare that to the number of other paintball videos to see how useful/popular smoke is. The 4th of July just past, how do we know they weren't sold at a fire works stand? Maybe the 4th of july is Just to violent. :tard:


Cuz Airsoft that uses guns that are replicas of actual firearms and the tactics are much more oriented to military "play" doesn't factor into this at all...

[Swampy]

It is disgusting that a media outlet plays the blame game to roll that responsibilty on to someone else. I've seen it before and it will happen again, not just in the sport of paintball. Honestly who knows that watching movies may teach you real world military tactics :rolleyes:

[saintnoir]

Why blame paintball that's easy its not a popular activity.The concept that people have always and will always go "amok" is really really scary lets blame the thing that we dont do it wont affect me and i feel all better about it.

[mostpeople]

most people are too smart to deal with the drivvel that guy is writing, dont worry about it.

Your concern would be better placed on getting new people into the sport as opposed to the idiotic writings of someone who has no idea what they are talking about. 99% of Americans will never see that article, so let it die.

[Justus]

most people are too smart to deal with the drivvel that guy is writing, dont worry about it.

Your concern would be better placed on getting new people into the sport as opposed to the idiotic writings of someone who has no idea what they are talking about. 99% of Americans will never see that article, so let it die.

The article, maybe not. But it did go on air, 7/24/12. Regardless, the point is that when one person starts to point a finger, it can catch on rather quickly in a blame-happy society.

And quit referring to yourself in the third person. ;)

[OPBN]

Maybe we're going about this the wrong way. Maybe if the rest of the people in the movie theater had played paintball they wouldnt have gotten bunkered.


Too soon?

[mostpeople]

Too soon

The real issue there is the gun laws, it is illegal to carry open or concealed firearms within Aurora Colorado. if even one of those people had been carrying, I guarantee it would have gone down differently.

While he did have body armor, hes a D-bag nerd kid who plays world of warcraft. The rounds may hit the armor, but putting fire on someone out in the open (like the front of a movie theatre) will definitely make him run, or duck and cover etc.. slowing potentially stopping his attack. Someone brought up something interesting the other day, while he did acquire the firearms legally, THERE IS ALSO A LAW AGAINST CAPITOL MURDER, BUT HE BROKE THAT ONE TOO, what makes you, or anyone, think that a law against owning guns is the one he would follow?

I went out and purchased my first firearm the day after aurora (not because of it, i was planning already), but I will be getting my CCL because of things like it.

good luck, remember police are not there the prevent crime, they are there to stop it. This guy had no priors and you will NEVER be able to stop things like this unless you allow people to carry constitutionally. They break the law anyways, they wont care about gun laws.

[maniacmechanic]

most people are too smart to deal with the drivvel that guy is writing, dont worry about it.

Your concern would be better placed on getting new people into the sport as opposed to the idiotic writings of someone who has no idea what they are talking about. 99% of Americans will never see that article, so let it die.

Total agreement on this ^^

In my opinion we don't need to be concerned about gun laws , what we need to be concerned with is JUSTICE , it should be swift and consequential , IMHO this man deserves to die and soon , no setting in a cell for a year waiting on a trial , he IS GUILTY , sentence needs to be given and imposed , I know if he had killed one of my loved ones I would be trying to figure out how to get in jail !!

[Frizzle Fry]

Too soon

The real issue there is the gun laws, it is illegal to carry open or concealed firearms within Aurora Colorado. if even one of those people had been carrying, I guarantee it would have gone down differently.

While he did have body armor, hes a D-bag nerd kid who plays world of warcraft. The rounds may hit the armor, but putting fire on someone out in the open (like the front of a movie theatre) will definitely make him run, or duck and cover etc.. slowing potentially stopping his attack. Someone brought up something interesting the other day, while he did acquire the firearms legally, THERE IS ALSO A LAW AGAINST CAPITOL MURDER, BUT HE BROKE THAT ONE TOO, what makes you, or anyone, think that a law against owning guns is the one he would follow?

I went out and purchased my first firearm the day after aurora (not because of it, i was planning already), but I will be getting my CCL because of things like it.

good luck, remember police are not there the prevent crime, they are there to stop it. This guy had no priors and you will NEVER be able to stop things like this unless you allow people to carry constitutionally. They break the law anyways, they wont care about gun laws.

:headbang: :hail: :cheers:

[mostpeople]

Remember - none of us is as dumb as all of us. It is quite possible that the House, Senate, and Executive could all end up liberal come January. If that happens they will try to take your money and your guns. The constitution was just ripped to shreds by the SCOTUS re: Obamacare, what makes you think the second amendment is safe? The United States are in a real bind, its going to take some serious looking in the mirror to un-F'k ourselves.

I suggest all of you procure some form of self defense; mine happens to be a S&W 1911 .45, choose your poison. Bottom line is that you do not want to be victims. And do it now before you are prevented from it in the future.

Question...

Where were the police when the Trayvon Martin thing went down?
Where were the police when Aurora movie theatre got shot up?
Where were the police at Columbine HS?
Where were the police at VT?
Where were the police at the killing spree in Norway? (Another WoW player by the way)
Where were the police at xxx?

Are you going to be crying where are the police when you are being threatened, shot at or worse? Or are you going to defend yourself which is your god given right? A for some reason not obvious fact is that the police will NOT be there when the crime happens.

Don't be a victim, you know kids used to take their guns to school with them wayyy back in the day? Think about that, and how irresponsible our children are these days, as well as our piss poor parenting in America. My sympathy for all of this is about zero, sorry if thats an A-hole position to take but its a fact. Maybe the residents of Aurora will allow Concealed Carry next time?

/rant off

[Justus]

Where were the police at the killing spree in Norway? (Another WoW player by the way)
I sympathize with some of the points you're trying to make, even if I don't think they belong in the Paintball Talk thread due to the political nature. (discussion of gun control needs, and IIRC it has, its own topic; discussion of national healthcare needs its own topic; etc.) But are we the pot or kettle when we draw attention to the fact that this murderer played WoW, whilst becoming angry that a "news organization" (yes, I use that term lightly) tries to make the same type of insinuations about our sport of paintball?

My point being, there are probably plenty of people that play WoW who aren't homicidal, just like there are plenty of people who play paintball who aren't homicidal. Pulling random trivia from the case and turning it into a causation for the atrocity without any real basis is a disservice no matter what is being blamed.


Edit: By the way, I've never even seen WoW outside of those Mr. T commercials from a few years ago, so I'm not personally spurned by the link to WoW or anything - I just don't want people to think that the paintball community allows a double-standard, being that we'll attack a video game, just not our chosen sport.

[drg]

Someone brought up something interesting the other day, while he did acquire the firearms legally, THERE IS ALSO A LAW AGAINST CAPITOL MURDER, BUT HE BROKE THAT ONE TOO, what makes you, or anyone, think that a law against owning guns is the one he would follow?

Logic doesn't really follow here, as the shop was unlikely to cooperate in him illegally buying the guns. Most likely he would have bought legal weapons, for the same reason he bought legal weapons this time around -- he had no intention to break the law at that time. And the truth is, very likely his firepower would have been limited compared to what it was.

In order to have mature discussions about guns, you need to acknowledge the realities of the issue, not fantasies. Some regulation is good, necessary and completely constitutional. Discussing that regulation can only be done among rational people, and unfortunately all too often the gun lobby and its zealous supporters act with a near pathological mentality.

That's a problem, because it's going to be hard to keep guns out of the hands of truly insane people if so many gun owners keep skirting the edges of sanity.


Where were the police when the Trayvon Martin thing went down?
Where were the police when Aurora movie theatre got shot up?
Where were the police at Columbine HS?
Where were the police at VT?
Where were the police at the killing spree in Norway? (Another WoW player by the way)
Where were the police at xxx?

This is not a valid point without considering the number of successful police interventions that have happened during the same time period. It was far more than 5. You can start listing them any time.

[OPBN]

Too soon

The real issue there is the gun laws, it is illegal to carry open or concealed firearms within Aurora Colorado. if even one of those people had been carrying, I guarantee it would have gone down differently.

While he did have body armor, hes a D-bag nerd kid who plays world of warcraft. The rounds may hit the armor, but putting fire on someone out in the open (like the front of a movie theatre) will definitely make him run, or duck and cover etc.. slowing potentially stopping his attack. .[/B]
I think your logic is a little flawed here. I'm pretty sure CCC classes are designed to teach people how to handle a gun safely, not tactical training. What makes you think that Joe Moviegoer is going to be any more cool under pressure when some psycho throws a smoke grenade into a crowded movie theater and opens fire? I would put money that with or without a gun most people would just piss themselves and hide when being shot at. And how good of a shot are these guys going to be? Again, CCC carrierss arent exactly SWAT team members. So now instead of one guy shooting, we have 5 or 6 civilians with little beyond basic training trading fire in a dark, crowded, smoky theater.

[Frizzle Fry]

Logic doesn't really follow here, as the shop was unlikely to cooperate in him illegally buying the guns. Most likely he would have bought legal weapons, for the same reason he bought legal weapons this time around -- he had no intention to break the law at that time. And the truth is, very likely his firepower would have been limited compared to what it was
I have to disagree.

This guy lived in the PRK (specifically San Diego) until fall of 2011, which makes it highly unlikely that he owned weapons during that period (he was there until he was 23, and lived on a college campus). The weapons used were purchased after the move to Colorado. He bought his weapons in late May, dropped out of school in early June, and murdered a large number of people in mid July. It's pretty clear why he bought them.

He had no record - in fact his charity work, doctorate-in-progress and any other number of factors made him a prime candidate for licensing, even in a state that wipes its ass with the constitution like Massachusetts or New York. What element of gun control would have helped here? Banning guns all together? He had no record, and didn't buy anything unusual.

The media will point to his "6000rds of ammunition" like it's some sign that he's deranged, but when you own a few guns in different calibers you buy a few hundred rounds at a time, it's cheaper and it saves on trips to the store (especially if you're a plinker). Do you know how big a box of fifty 22s is? Miniscule.

People can talk about the AR15 he used being an "assault weapon" but it's a hunting rifle. Semi automatic, detachable magazine, the same results could have been achieved with a BAR or a Mini 14 or a Remington 750. Being inspired by the movie (he told the police he was "The Joker") he probably picked the AR15 because it LOOKS so similar to the M4s being toted by many of the villains (or because it looks "cool"). What differentiates it from those as far as function goes is that it's still just a semi-automatic rifle; no burst or FA.


Some regulation is good, necessary and completely constitutional.
Some regulation exists... Legal gun owners are all state licensed and background-checked, and legal owners of automatic weapons and explosives are all state and federally licensed. You can't buy a cannon, you can't buy a hand grenade, and you can't buy a machinegun. If you're a felon, or on antipsychotics, you can't even buy grandpas HR single-break .410 let alone a handgun.

Regulations exist and are extremely effective. Very few violent gun crimes are committed with legally owned firearms; most are committed with stolen or smuggled weapons (not weapons purchased by a shill). Most non-violent gun crimes are committed by legal owners, because the tangled web of conflicting and irrational state and federal gun laws that have existed since the early 90s were written by people who know about as much about guns as they do about life on mars, so much so that the police and lawyers and judges can barely make sense of them.

It gets very unconstitutional when you start telling people who have committed no crime and have no mental illeness why they can own guns (people love to talk about "hunting") and why they can't. The constitution says it and the supreme court backs it up - we can own guns for personal and home defense. Why not be able to own guns that are designed for just that, rather than antiques and outdated designs that are a struggle to operate and maintain? Technically a Springfield 1903 is an "assault weapon" as it was made for the military, but no judge or lawmaker would make that assertion now as it's outdated technology. When you start telling people they can't have handguns, or they can't have adjustable stocks, or they can't have pistol grips on a rifle or a carry handle, it's just an attempt to battle the "look" of a military weapon not the key elements of functionality, and it's just another way of making something like gun ownership inaccessible because you can't make it illegal.




Where were the police when the Trayvon Martin thing went down?
At the police station trying to figure out who the 14 pieces of womens jewelry belonged to, the ones they found in his backback along with a big screwdriver the first time the six foot two 17.75 year old varsity football player got kicked out of school last fall? Either that or trying to lift some prints off the drug residue filled plastic baggie they took out of his backpack the second time he was kicked out of school this spring.

[MANN]

Question...

Where were the police when the Trayvon Martin thing went down?
Where were the police when Aurora movie theatre got shot up?
Where were the police at Columbine HS?
Where were the police at VT?
Where were the police at the killing spree in Norway? (Another WoW player by the way)
Where were the police at xxx?


I know exactly where they were. They were busy pulling me over because I did not have my seatbelt on. They were fighting the "real" crimes.

[hill160881]

There are so many holes in this story I dont trust any of it. Looks like a staged event or it was allowed to happen with prior knowledge to me. The official story so far is TOTALLY different from the accounts of the bystanders and the police radio records. Nothing adds up.

[death594]

I think your logic is a little flawed here. I'm pretty sure CCC classes are designed to teach people how to handle a gun safely, not tactical training. What makes you think that Joe Moviegoer is going to be any more cool under pressure when some psycho throws a smoke grenade into a crowded movie theater and opens fire? I would put money that with or without a gun most people would just piss themselves and hide when being shot at.
I agree with this statement. Even if you had a gun in that confusion with the movie going on in the background along with him shooting threw smoke good luck identifying your target quickly. Also you would have to hit him with your first bullet to hopefully knock the wind out of him hope you have a large caliber and not a 9mm like alot of people carry. so then you hopefully could close the distance and finish it. If you miss now you might get a second shot but by then he is onto you and will start concentrating fire on you and more than likely the people you went to go see the movie with. Now back to scenario one you hit him and nobody else miraculously. You start closing in to finish it but he is down on the ground now with this smoke/tear gas what ever he threw (first reports i heard it was tear gas) and a flashing movie behind you. Somebody else decided they were going to attempt to be the hero now remember he is on the ground and you are standing who do you think he is going to put a few rounds at? and this is all assuming that you don't miss and injure another innocent person. But never the less remember when seconds count the police are minutes away.

[OPBN]

There are so many holes in this story I dont trust any of it. Looks like a staged event or it was allowed to happen with prior knowledge to me. The official story so far is TOTALLY different from the accounts of the bystanders and the police radio records. Nothing adds up.
You may be proof positive that pot makes you paranoid.

You've been reported to the overlords.

[hill160881]

So asking WTF with all the inconsistencies and implausible scenarios in this story make me paranoid? How? I want to know what happened and not have it spun for a political agenda. Asking questions when something is out of place is not paranoia. Its vigilance. ;)

[hill160881]

-How many shooters were there?
-How did an unemployed grad student get 30 grand in hard to acquire weapons and gear? What money? How in such a short time?
-Why with his armaments did he wait at his car to be taken into custody? He could have taken many cops with him.
-Did the door of the theater get blown off like the official account says or or was it opened by an accomplice like many bystanders stated?
-Why does the police radio records clearly show they were looking for two described shooters/assailants when the official story is he did it alone?
-Why did he send a plan of the shooting to a teacher before the shooting? Makes no sense.
-Why do this then tell the cops you rigged the apartment to blow? What, he now decides not to kill?
-Why does he know so little about the joker if he is imitating him? Red hair? Its green.
-Why is he so messed up he cant speak and shows all the signs of being druged out of his mind?
-Why did they have a scripted story of the whole event to tell the public when it had not yet been investigated? Big one here! You dont give details out until the investigation is finished, unless you want a media trial.
Is it a coincidence that the UN gun ban treaty is set to be signed by Obummer and this happens or is it not letting a good tragedy go to waste? This would make semi autos and hand guns illegal.

[OPBN]

So asking WTF with all the inconsistencies and implausible scenarios in this story make me paranoid? How? I want to know what happened and not have it spun for a political agenda. Asking questions when something is out of place is not paranoia. Its vigilance. ;)
Keep telling yourself that. I think that you would find there are inconsistencies in nearly every story reported. Stories are reported by humans. Humans make mistakes. Humans make mistakes. It's not a hiccup in the matrix, it's just innacurate reporting.

[hill160881]

Keep telling yourself that. I think that you would find there are inconsistencies in nearly every story reported. Stories are reported by humans. Humans make mistakes. Humans make mistakes. It's not a hiccup in the matrix, it's just innacurate reporting.
The OFFICIAL report is full of holes. :rolleyes: Not what is reported.

[OPBN]

The OFFICIAL report is full of holes. :rolleyes: Not what is reported.
Or maybe as usual the conspiracy theory nuts are nitpicking every single detail to find some tiny discrepancy that they feel supports their crazy idea that everyone is out to get them.

Doing a quick google search revealed several blogs discussing the current conspiracy theories that are floating around and most of what I see isnt really even discrepancies, but baseless nonsense. But I'm sure these guys are just government puppets hired to calm tha cattle down while the evil UN takes our guns away.

[hill160881]

Or maybe as usual the conspiracy theory nuts are nitpicking every single detail to find some tiny discrepancy that they feel supports their crazy idea that everyone is out to get them.

Doing a quick google search revealed several blogs discussing the current conspiracy theories that are floating around and most of what I see isnt really even discrepancies, but baseless nonsense. But I'm sure these guys are just government puppets hired to calm tha cattle down while the evil UN takes our guns away.

Can you argue the points or answer the very clear questions, or is back handed mud slinging all you got? Its not a conspiracy theory, i am asking questions about the OFFICIAL narrative not matching the eye witness accounts and there own records. But go ahead, use that label "conspiracy theorist" like that is all you need to discredit others when they ask a question or point out the obvious. If there are answers that make sense then great and it was just as they said.

[mostpeople]

Logic doesn't really follow here, as the shop was unlikely to cooperate in him illegally buying the guns. Most likely he would have bought legal weapons, for the same reason he bought legal weapons this time around -- he had no intention to break the law at that time. And the truth is, very likely his firepower would have been limited compared to what it was.

wut? My point is that he broke multiple laws, so gun control laws wouldn't have stopped him

In order to have mature discussions about guns, you need to acknowledge the realities of the issue, not fantasies. Some regulation is good, necessary and completely constitutional. Discussing that regulation can only be done among rational people, and unfortunately all too often the gun lobby and its zealous supporters act with a near pathological mentality.

I dont think I broached that subject, but I suppose I should. Firearms for everyone, except felons, mass murderers etc.. Anyone else who wants one sure, only if you don't limit my guns (F.A. high cap etc..). You know 50%+ of swiss citizens own firearms? Their crime rate is much lower.


That's a problem, because it's going to be hard to keep guns out of the hands of truly insane people if so many gun owners keep skirting the edges of sanity.

lolwut?

This is not a valid point without considering the number of successful police interventions that have happened during the same time period. It was far more than 5. You can start listing them any time.

This statement tells me two things: First that my argument is lost on someone like you, and two that you do not understand what I was trying to say, be it my fault or not, idc.




:shooting:

[mostpeople]

I think your logic is a little flawed here. I'm pretty sure CCC classes are designed to teach people how to handle a gun safely, not tactical training. What makes you think that Joe Moviegoer is going to be any more cool under pressure when some psycho throws a smoke grenade into a crowded movie theater and opens fire? I would put money that with or without a gun most people would just piss themselves and hide when being shot at. And how good of a shot are these guys going to be? Again, CCC carrierss arent exactly SWAT team members. So now instead of one guy shooting, we have 5 or 6 civilians with little beyond basic training trading fire in a dark, crowded, smoky theater.

You know you're right, we don't know the status of every individual in that theatre, and every state has different CCL requirements, so its hard to say what that said individual would have done had they theoretically been carrying a firearm.

Also, I assumed theoretically that they would use said theoretical firearm, which may also be flawed. But you tell me - if you were being shot at wouldn't you defend yourself against that?

What if we all carried firearms more often, and were more comfortable with them? Perhaps people would be less inclined to do things like this if they knew that joe blow might be packing?

[OPBN]

Can you argue the points or answer the very clear questions, or is back handed mud slinging all you got? Its not a conspiracy theory, i am asking questions about the OFFICIAL narrative not matching the eye witness accounts and there own records. But go ahead, use that label "conspiracy theorist" like that is all you need to discredit others when they ask a question or point out the obvious. If there are answers that make sense then great and it was just as they said.
I'm sure if you posted up exactly what discrepanceies you are finding I could find correlating explanations, but then someone would find some tiny detail to nitpick and it would go on forever like this, kinda like the 911 conspiracy crap that has been going around for years. There is no satisfying people that want there to be something wrong. You can't convince paranoids that there is nothing to be paranoid about because then tney think you are out to get them. See the basic problem here?

[saintnoir]

The base problem is people go crazy pure and simple if they want to kill you they will try.
Look up the Akihabara incident want to go on a mass killing spree rent a truck and run over people

[hill160881]

I'm sure if you posted up exactly what discrepanceies you are finding I could find correlating explanations, but then someone would find some tiny detail to nitpick and it would go on forever like this, kinda like the 911 conspiracy crap that has been going around for years. There is no satisfying people that want there to be something wrong. You can't convince paranoids that there is nothing to be paranoid about because then tney think you are out to get them. See the basic problem here?

These are not little discrepancies! Again you go after the people asking the question. lol here they are again.


-How did an unemployed grad student get 30 grand in hard to acquire weapons and gear? What money? How in such a short time?
-Why with his armaments did he wait at his car to be taken into custody? He could have taken many cops with him.
-Did the door of the theater get blown off like the official account says or or was it opened by an accomplice like many bystanders stated?
-Why does the police radio records clearly show they were looking for two described shooters/assailants when the official story is he did it alone?
-Why did he send a plan of the shooting to a teacher before the shooting? Makes no sense.
-Why do this then tell the cops you rigged the apartment to blow? What, he now decides not to kill?
-Why does he know so little about the joker if he is imitating him? Red hair? Its green.
-Why is he so messed up he cant speak and shows all the signs of being druged out of his mind?
-Why did they have a scripted story of the whole event to tell the public when it had not yet been investigated? Big one here! You dont give details out until the investigation is finished, unless you want a media trial.
Is it a coincidence that the UN gun ban treaty is set to be signed by Obummer and this happens or is it not letting a good tragedy go to waste? This would make semi autos and hand guns illegal.

These are not little discrepancies. lol If the offical story is totally different from those who were there then I ask questions. Its not like they got his hair color wrong or his name misspelled. They got the events of the incident totally different from some of the whiteness. Why? if there is an explanation i will except it unless it is as ridicules as to deify the laws of physics. :tard:

Also people who are historically stupid but think they know it well, really need to pick up a book. History shows us what is to come. And government does the same thing every time throughout history. But you are right, :tard: this time government is good and wont be corrupted and do all those things in history we read about with horror. :tard:

Another thing i think is funny. You dont even apply the word paranoid accurately. Asking questions is not paranoia, again it is vigilance.

[hill160881]

Here is a test

Is this a conspiracy theory or an illegal government testing program to see if they could program people?

Carefull, this was a "conspiracy theory" even after the release of 20 thousand documents pertaining to the program. Only after a congressional investagation was it accepted as fact.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra

I can just here you opbn telling me how stupid i was for believing in such utter nonsense and that our government would never smuggle convicted Nazi war criminals here to continue there experiments. :tard: OOPS

Perhaps operation North Woods. JFK put a stop to this and we all know what happened next. lol The magic bullet that changed direction 7 times.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

Ya I am paranoid but the government has been caught red handed many times doing stuff like this.

Does the government make **** up to use for political reasons. lolol,,bahahaha That a conspiracy nutt job theory. OOPS again How about those weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? I remember the congressional testimony where they were showing the satellite evidence before the war. All lies to start a 2 trillion dollar war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident

There are many many many examples I can show that are PROVEN but if you are determined to believe America is above the kind of corruption that has led to the fall of EVERY great power in history then so be it. Maybe you are right and we have evolved beyond this. snigger, snigger, laugh, laugh.

Its called historical president and there are enough declassified files that prove people like OPBN wrong, but once it has happened the ones involved are either dead or to old to care and the youth are to stupid to see where it all leads. I use historical fact and the history of every world powers fall to see what is happening and what is to come. Name one major power that did not fall due to corruption and greed.

[hill160881]

Nope*the current administration would never brainwash us about guns. "Brainwash"-to effect a radical change in the ideas and beliefs of (a person), esp by methods based on isolation, sleeplessness, hunger, extreme discomfort, pain, and the alternation of kindness and cruelty
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/gYyqBxD-3xw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Our current administration is honest and would not stage anything involving guns. lol :tard:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

[OPBN]

Again, google these exact questions and there are multiple bloggers with logical answers. Crazy people do crazy things. Eyewitness accounts in a dark, smoky chaotic scene are sketchy at best. I refuse to put anymore thought into this than what already has. I liken this to a discussion on the existence of the Easter Bunny. Have fun with it. The answers are out there, but you and your kind will never accept them because you choose to live in a world where the government is out to get you. Attempting to argue with paranoia and irrationality is pointless.

Watch your back man!

[hill160881]

I will call your bluff and ask you to post a few links to those answers. I doubt you looked up a thing. :)
I found only two answers and they are based on conjecture, so no evidence. My questions are based on eye whiteness accounts. lol

[OPBN]

I will call your bluff and ask you to post a few links to those answers. I doubt you looked up a thing. :)
I found only two answers and they are based on conjecture, so no evidence. My questions are based on eye whiteness accounts. lol
Right, because eyewitness accounts from people that are possibly in shock from being shot at in a dark smoky theater as they are fleeing for their lives in what i would imagine was the most chaotic hell any of these people has ever been in is certainly going to be 100% accurate. Really? I was recently at an event where a car drove into the crowd and injured 30 people. We were there and none of us had the same story and there were dozens of varying stories about what happened and every single one of them was from and eyewitness. There have been studies that show how unreliable eyewitnesses are, especially in situtations where there is chaos. So check any of those off of your list that relied on eyewitness accounts.

Before you doubt my story above: http://thecourier.com/Issues/2012/Jun/17/ar_news_061712_story3.asp?d=061712_story3,2012,Jun ,17&c=n

Do your own google search. It'e easy, just type in "conspiracy Aurora". I've put more thought into this already then it deserves.


-How did an unemployed grad student get 30 grand in hard to acquire weapons and gear? What money? How in such a short time?
-Why with his armaments did he wait at his car to be taken into custody? He could have taken many cops with him.
-Did the door of the theater get blown off like the official account says or or was it opened by an accomplice like many bystanders stated?
-Why does the police radio records clearly show they were looking for two described shooters/assailants when the official story is he did it alone?
-Why did he send a plan of the shooting to a teacher before the shooting? Makes no sense.
-Why do this then tell the cops you rigged the apartment to blow? What, he now decides not to kill?
-Why does he know so little about the joker if he is imitating him? Red hair? Its green.
-Why is he so messed up he cant speak and shows all the signs of being druged out of his mind?
-Why did they have a scripted story of the whole event to tell the public when it had not yet been investigated? Big one here! You dont give details out until the investigation is finished, unless you want a media trial. Every single one of these can be explained simply by:
1. Eyewitness accounts suck as already discussed. Accept this fact. Quick google reference:http://agora.stanford.edu/sjls/Issue%20One/fisher&tversky.htma http://www.apa.org/monitor/2011/12/eyewitness.aspx http://www.simplypsychology.org/eyewitness-testimony.html
2. HE IS BATS..T CRAZY!!! Crazy people do crazy things. This is like trying to make sense of a paranoid schizophrenics ramblings. You cannot expect an irrational person to do rational things. Just because he is acting wierd or doing things that are illogicaL, DOES NOT MAKE IT A CONSPIRACY. Perhaps him giving up rather than go out in a blaze of glory was the one non-crazy thing he did. So for one moment of lucidity, and mercy we now have a conspiracy? Really?

You keep asking for factual refudiation of the above questions, when the above questions are as based in as much conjecture as the answers you ignore. No one except this nutbag knows what is going on in his brain and he may not even. Which is typical of conspiracy theories. There is no rock solid proof in any of the above questions. NONE.

I'll call your bluff. Show me one piece of evidence based in fact or evidence. Show me a video of multiple assailants. Show me a toxicology report showing that the suspect is now being drugged. Show me one person who is currently working at the jail that can verify that this guy is being drugged or hanlded. Give me one person involved that is speaking out and had irrefutable proof. Give me one taped conversation or video of the planning session by the government to set this guy up. Show me records of his personal finances and any proof that someone purchased those weapons for him. How about video from a gun store showing someone falsely buying these serial numbered guns using his identity, but not being him. Show us one shred of real unrefutable evidence. An operation of this magnitude, much like the reported 911 conspiracy, would have taken 100's if not thousands of people to all not only participate, but keep hushed up afterwards. Find one.

[OPBN]

if you were being shot at wouldn't you defend yourself against that?

Not sure. I would like to think that I would go all Rambo or Clint on the guy, disarm him and ask him if he felt lucky. More than likely I would cower behind something solid and blind fire at him like the first time I played paintball. I've never been shot at and dare say I would most likely duck and cover which is a pretty typical reaction.

[mostpeople]

Not sure. I would like to think that I would go all Rambo or Clint on the guy, disarm him and ask him if he felt lucky. More than likely I would cower behind something solid and blind fire at him like the first time I played paintball. I've never been shot at and dare say I would most likely duck and cover which is a pretty typical reaction.

How would you blindfire if you werent carrying a concealed weapon? (Which is illegal in Aurora Colorado btw).

I think my point has been made, its all food for thought. Guns are not the problem, the people are.

As as aside, looks like I stirred up a hornets nest here, job = done! :shooting:

[OPBN]

How would you blindfire if you werent carrying a concealed weapon? (Which is illegal in Aurora Colorado btw).

I think my point has been made, its all food for thought. Guns are not the problem, the people are.

As as aside, looks like I stirred up a hornets nest here, job = done! :shooting:
As I understood it, you were asking me if I wouldnt defend myself if I was armed. If I was unarmed and being shot at, I along with any intelligent person, would run like hell.

[Frizzle Fry]

Our current administration is honest and would not stage anything involving guns. lol :tard:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

This is Obamas Iran-Contra and Bay of Pigs rolled into one... Why isn't anybody talking about it anymore?

I'm not trying to draw a correlation, but what the media is talking about are Bain Capitals miraculously newly surfaced tax records that state Romney was the CEO long after he left any active role in the company (which independent and impartial investigations have proven to be completely inaccurate) and days later this shooting in Colorado...

I lived in MA for the entirety of Romneys time here and don't really care for either candidate really, but the size and scope of the events and actions the media is willing to distort and ignore to preserve the current presidents image is getting a little silly.

[mostpeople]

As I understood it, you were asking me if I wouldnt defend myself if I was armed. If I was unarmed and being shot at, I along with any intelligent person, would run like hell.

:rolleyes:

[SkyBoySurfer]

I would suggest anyone who wants to know more about this look into a project called MKultra.

[bound for glory]

many, many moons ago there was a piece done on our local news about this paramilitary group in New Milford Pa. Then it was on the Mortan Downey show and it stated how people where coming from all over the east coast to train here and possibly over throw the government.

We now know and love this place as E.M.R. We also know Blue could be the ruler of the free world but it would cut into his having fun time so that was never an option. That was almost 20 years ago and people still don't get it and never will. Almost everyone in this country is crazy now anyway so maybe it will bring more people to the sport! Who knows. :shooting: :shooting:
well, if you know much about EMR, you may not know too much about wolfs lair. i played there often and it was indeed visited ofted by all sorts of nazi types. a-town posse, DMS, stroud stompers(the crew i was in) were early homers up there. funkhouser liked these types and did'nt mind if things got a bit violent from time to time. underage drinking, fights, threats...yeah, it was wild.
i remember one big game where the all americans were playing the a-town posse(this is'nt a team name. in the '80's it was a crew of white power skins from allentown) on rommels trap. very nearly saw one of the gardner boys get a boot party because he did'nt call himself out after being hit several times. they were run out of there.
oh, if we could just do things like that, today...

[OPBN]

well, if you know much about EMR, you may not know too much about wolfs lair. i played there often and it was indeed visited ofted by all sorts of nazi types. a-town posse, DMS, stroud stompers(the crew i was in) were early homers up there. funkhouser liked these types and did'nt mind if things got a bit violent from time to time. underage drinking, fights, threats...yeah, it was wild.
i remember one big game where the all americans were playing the a-town posse(this is'nt a team name. in the '80's it was a crew of white power skins from allentown) on rommels trap. very nearly saw one of the gardner boys get a boot party because he did'nt call himself out after being hit several times. they were run out of there.
oh, if we could just do things like that, today...
Wow, gonna have to say this is one of the few posts about "the glory days of paintball" that make me glad they're gone.