Need some feedback on what kind of frame you would like to see me manufacture.

[luke]

This will be my next project as I’m finally caught up on restocking some inventory and plan on starting the design this coming week. I do have an EP frame pretty much designed, it’s a typical Vert frame that uses Angel grips and non- AGD triggers.

But, I’m thinking I want to start from scratch, still using the Vert design but utilizing Intelli triggers and shortening the length of the grip down closer to the 45 length (As has been discussed here before). There won’t be any off the shelf grips/panels that will fit so I will have to make those too. Frame would be set up to use stock AGD safety parts. I think the frame should be some what universal with a base platform that would make it easy to build a Pneumag or EPmag (I have some specific ideas in mind for that). And the frame should also operate as a mechanical frame.

This will not be a pre order deal, I have a small amount of materials I’ll cut up then go from there. I don’t have a set price as this project is only just started (At the top of this page ;) )

If you have some specific points you would like considered in the design, let’s hear em.

:cheers:

[audioSLAVE]

Built in snatch grip maybe?

[knownothingmags]

speaking for me only, i would rather see a 45 ep frame.
mill for emag magnets, for trigger return.

thats all i have for now.
,
KNM

[OPBN]

86* or 90* single trigger mechanical frame. Wouldnt mind if it accomodated CCM panels.

[Darring D]

86* or 90* single trigger mechanical frame. Wouldnt mind if it accomodated CCM panels.


I second this but also like the idea of a snatch grip :headbang:

[OPBN]

I second this but also like the idea of a snatch grip :headbang:
So 90* mechanical with a snatche grip.

[keiko_819]

a 'mini' vert frame would be awsome, especially if it will work with stock agd trigger parts... :headbang:

[mpsd]

Take pneumagger's idea from 2008 and get it moving! A single piece, vert frame / rail and 15* ASA, all Ultra-ULE'd! Frame must have a pocket for a vertical MPA-3 to actuate the sear as well so that one could use it as mech / pneu or e-pneu easily enough with no need to modify the frame.

I'd love to get one of those.

:cheers:

[sQuidvision]

86* or 90* single trigger mechanical frame. Wouldnt mind if it accomodated CCM panels.
This... I would buy an 86* Ccm style frame for mags in a heartbeat. Single trigger would be sweet too even if it's an option.

[mpsd]

This... I would buy an 86* Ccm style frame for mags in a heartbeat. Single trigger would be sweet too even if it's an option.

Well, an 86* frame with a modular trigger-guard that would allow one to change between single and double should not be so hard to do and would certainly be interesting. Make a pocket for a trigger switch or a lever to actuate a MSV-2 using the single trigger and you have a winning product as well. As you can see, I'd love to have anything modular. LOL

[OPBN]

Well, an 86* frame with a modular trigger-guard that would allow one to change between single and double should not be so hard to do and would certainly be interesting. Make a pocket for a trigger switch or a lever to actuate a MSV-2 using the single trigger and you have a winning product as well. As you can see, I'd love to have anything modular. LOL
Great idea actually. Make it similiar to a Tippmann where you swap out the trigger guard depending if you want it single or double. Make it so that it accepts AGD double triggers and come out with intellitrigger based single triggers. I like.

[luke]

Why would an 86* be better than a 90* frame?

[OPBN]

Why would an 86* be better than a 90* frame?
It wouldnt be if it didnt accept CCM panels. A shortened 90* would be fine, but there has to be an alternative to aluminum panels. IMO.

[Darring D]

So 90* mechanical with a snatche grip.


I've only used an 86* so I can't say yah or nah on a 90*.. A single trigger 86* with a snatch grip would be nice! :dance: Heck, make a 86* double trigger to take the intelliframe trigger too!

[OPBN]

I've only used an 86* so I can't say yah or nah on a 90*.. A single trigger 86* with a snatch grip would be nice! :dance: Heck, make a 86* double trigger to take the intelliframe trigger too!
4* would be tough to discern.

What about a 90* with a modular bottom that could be either a short of tall 90*?

[Darring D]

It wouldnt be if it didnt accept CCM panels. A shortened 90* would be fine, but there has to be an alternative to aluminum panels. IMO.


I took the panels off all my CCM 86* frames and run Hogue wrap around grips on them.
Click me to see hogue grips (http://www.airsoldier.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AOS&Product_Code=HOGUE-CZGRIPS&Category_Code=GUNGRIPS)

[mpsd]

I think an 86* that takes CCM/Hogue grips would be cool because no-one ever did it for a Mag so far. 90* frames are aplenty already, be it tall (Logic / RPG / VER / M90) or short (Logic UMF / RPG Triton).

So, if you are going to do new, do it new indeed! :D

Just my .02

:cheers:

[sQuidvision]

im not too hung up on the angel... 90* is cool with me too... but the CCM frames are very comfortable in the hands, and the ability to use their panels would be a nice plus.

If you take anything from my posts though let it be that a single trigger frame would be super! :clap:

[mpsd]

Well, the last single trigger frame developed for a Mag was the CF one, developed on the early 90s, ~20 years ago. So, yeah, I agree that it would be cool to have a new one as well. I dream about an e-pneu, single trigger Mag. Use it with some light ramping and you have the ultimate sleeper Mag! :ninja:

I want one for this Mag:
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x299/mpsd18/DSC05860.jpg

[Frizzle Fry]

90* single frame... Mechanical..

The Angel one is SO nice and SO comfortable.

[knownothingmags]

i am definently on board with the single trigger pneu frame.
that would be sweet,

i am definently over the 90* frames.

but whatever you make will be good.

i will not be buying another 90* frame not my style.

[OPBN]

i am definently on board with the single trigger pneu frame.
that would be sweet,

i am definently over the 90* frames.

but whatever you make will be good.

i will not be buying another 90* frame not my style.I don't truly see the point of another single trigger 45*. Benchmarks are still made and CF's are abundant. A single 90 or 86 is the only thing that is currently unavailable for an Automag.

[mpsd]

Single / Modular 86* FTW!!! :clap: :rofl:

Hey, Luke, why don't you start a poll?

[knownothingmags]

I don't truly see the point of another single trigger 45*. Benchmarks are still made and CF's are abundant. A single 90 or 86 is the only thing that is currently unavailable for an Automag.
oh i see what you are saying, a single trigger 90*?
that would be different.

[OPBN]

oh i see what you are saying, a single trigger 90*?
that would be different.
I actually like the idea of a modular like MPSD is saying. A 90 with an optional single or double trigger guard.

[dboggs79]

86 or 90, single trigger, snatch and "universal" (pneu,mech,ep).

[Syko89]

Emag y-frame but I think the board is the problem here not the frame

[renie]

A 90 frame would be nice or a decent looking 45 :)

[BTAutoMag]

I think you should make this:



One thing I regret is never getting around to having that one frame I designed produced.
Totally ULE'd, the frame would have made for one of the lightest setups ever because you can get rid of the rail.
I'll bet if the frame were made from glass-filled nylon it would fantastically light... and still no rail.

I'd be up for producing a few prototypes if someone had the capabilities... all my personal machines are not CNC. :(

This version of the design isn't completely ULE'd... it has a cutout for an MPA-3 pneumag piston directly under the on/off and a tab for easy mounting of the MSV-2.
Notice the cutouts & holes to accomodate a sear directly in the frame.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g45/jrm33/CAD%20Stuff/rail_frame.jpg

This was a plainer version with an integrated 15 degree foregrip.
This frame could have also accomodated a sear.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g45/jrm33/v01_cutaway.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g45/jrm33/V2UMF-1.jpg

[mpsd]

I think you should make this:

Well, that was my very first suggestion if you look above.

[BTAutoMag]

Well, that was my very first suggestion if you look above.

And I second that and found the pictures for you ;)

[going_home]

Why would an 86* be better than a 90* frame?

A short version of the 90 degree Angel type frame hasnt been done.

Theres plenty of Logic and RPG hybrid frames floating around used,

and Shawn still sells the Triton new too.

I'd say if you are going to make something, make it something new

thats not been done already.

Just saying.

You'll probably sell more if it fits both AM/MM and RT Pro/Emag length rails.

;)

[CaptainWhappin]

I would definitely by a 86*/90* single trigger frame for my pump mag.

[OPBN]

You'll probably sell more if it fits both AM/MM and RT Pro/Emag length rails.

;)
Truth. This along with an RTP style flatbottom UL pump milled rail would be amazing especially if you designed it around a pump kit.... Make it all flow.

[luke]

Truth. This along with an RTP style flatbottom UL pump milled rail would be amazing especially if you designed it around a pump kit.... Make it all flow.

I do have an idea for a pump setup that has not been done yet. I believe I have only mentioned the specific design to one other forum member here. However being a one man show dealing with all aspects of this by myself it takes some effort to get new stuff to market. And on top of that low production numbers is little incentive to spend every waking hour designing parts. ;)

[luke]

Here is where I feel we are:

1. Short 90* Angel style grip.
2 Single trigger.
3 AGD safety parts.
4. I believe I can design this to accept 45 grips. (I dont care for single screw per side grips)
5. EP, Pneu, Mech friendly, ready mount Intelli switch, EP trigger switch, MSV-2. (If possible)
6. Must fit all rails. Wingless but also referring to trigger guard size which is not an issue with a single trigger.

I'm not really sold on a built in snatch grip, personally I think it looks funky on a Mag. But besides looks it will add to the price of materials which are not very cheap these days. I would much rather machine a nice snatch grip to add to the products I currently offer. (???) It’s not completely out of the question, but you guys will have to convince me otherwise.

[OPBN]

I do have an idea for a pump setup that has not been done yet. I believe I have only mentioned the specific design to one other forum member here. However being a one man show dealing with all aspects of this by myself it takes some effort to get new stuff to market. And on top of that low production numbers is little incentive to spend every waking hour designing parts. ;)
I know, but designing things with future parts in mind would be awesome. I have just not yet seen a pump kit that took design into consideration. All pump kits so far look like add ons rather than specifically designed for the Automag.

Sorry, didnt mean to veer offcourse.

I think you are spot on for you assessment of where its at on this. My only question is that when "pneu friendly" is mentioned is someone thinking sleeper capable? I think trying to design a short 90* frame that will accomodate an LPR and pneumatics is going to be rough.

[BiNumber3]

Sounds good, though I'd throw in a vote for a modular trigger guard to allow for a double trigger without doing 2 different runs

[luke]

Sounds good, though I'd throw in a vote for a modular trigger guard to allow for a double trigger without doing 2 different runs

I dont know if I am sold on that idea at this point...

[luke]

I know, but designing things with future parts in mind would be awesome. I have just not yet seen a pump kit that took design into consideration. All pump kits so far look like add ons rather than specifically designed for the Automag.

Sorry, didnt mean to veer offcourse.

But you really have no clue what what I speak of. As far as I know this has never been done on any marker ever made. ;)



I think you are spot on for you assessment of where its at on this. My only question is that when "pneu friendly" is mentioned is someone thinking sleeper capable? I think trying to design a short 90* frame that will accomodate an LPR and pneumatics is going to be rough.

I never said "sleeper" ;)
Personally I love seeing the regulator sticking off the front of an ASA.

But with that said, that is the beauty of a CAD program, I can figure out easily enough if it’s doable. ;)

But my motivation is not to hide a regulator in the frame. I have a specific size in mind for the grip and would not make it larger because of a sleeper setup. If “they” want that they can choose a different frame. :)

[keiko_819]

Here is where I feel we are:

1. Short 90* Angel style grip.
2 Single trigger.
3 AGD safety parts.
4. I believe I can design this to accept 45 grips. (I dont care for single screw per side grips)
5. EP, Pneu, Mech friendly, ready mount Intelli switch, EP trigger switch, MSV-2. (If possible)
6. Must fit all rails. Wingless but also referring to trigger guard size which is not an issue with a single trigger.

sounds like a dream pump mag frame to me...
with what you have planned so far, count me in for at least 2... :headbang:

[sQuidvision]

your current assessment would make me a happy customer.

[going_home]

Short 90 degree with Intelliframe (or your own double) trigger for me.

If you make it a single trigger you will likely be limiting your sales to those building pumps.

If you make it a double trigger everyone can use it, not just pump players.

Unless you are making two versions.

Just saying.


:ninja:

[OPBN]

Short 90 degree with Intelliframe (or your own double) trigger for me.

If you make it a single trigger you will likely be limiting your sales to those building pumps.

If you make it a double trigger everyone can use it, not just pump players.

Unless you are making two versions.

Just saying.


:ninja:
I agree that a double trigger will most likely apeal to more players, but personally I would be out since I AM wanting it for a pump. Already have 3 vert doublt frames. Dont need another.

[OPBN]

But my motivation is not to hide a regulator in the frame. I have a specific size in mind for the grip and would not make it larger because of a sleeper setup. If “they” want that they can choose a different frame. :)
I'm good with it. as long as those requesting it to be "pneu friendly" are as well. I would think some would find it pointless to make it pneu compatible and not sleeper capable. I could be totally off base. I personally don't care if it's pneu friendly.

[Ando]

It will be imposable and/or very uncomfortable to do a double trigger on a short body 90*

I can't stand a Sub compact grip and it will basically be the same for this. Remember you have to take into consideration of the ASA and what not. Half your hand will be on or over it.

[mpsd]

I'm good with the proposed idea as well. Don't really mind not being able to make it a sleeper. What attracts me the most in this is the possibility of making it EP, rather than pure pneu.

[sQuidvision]

i would be pumped if you just offered CCM 86* frame milling services for mags... then you wouldnt have to develop an entire product :P

[hill160881]

This is what a lot of people have requested of me.

http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Sleeper%20Mag/106_1297.jpg
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Sleeper%20Mag/106_1298.jpg

I will send it in for you to get measurements of of. :D

I see no reason this would not work with eyes and a pump kit or go with only pneumatic parts and not EP.

[OPBN]

This is what a lot of people have requested of me.

http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Sleeper%20Mag/106_1297.jpg
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/hill160881/Sleeper%20Mag/106_1298.jpg

I will send it in for you to get measurements of of. :D

I see no reason this would not work with eyes and a pump kit or go with only pneumatic parts and not EP.
While its nice for what you have it for, I would not be interested in a production version of this.

[renie]

*I love seeing the regulator sticking off the front of an ASA. :confused:

Cant think of anything worse looking? A nice lpr foregrip for the win if u want some cad files for a finished version of one let me know :)

[hill160881]

I think that AO has spoken more than once that a gas through LPR for grip would sell if the price was right. I would buy one.

[GEE TEE]

Ditto on that hills

Hiding the LPR on an EP or Pneumag conversion is a must in my book. I only went with external LPR on my own Egomag because there wasn't much alternative at the time.

I'm also really fussy about minimising external hose runs where possible. Seen plenty of nice EP conversions spoiled by messy hosing and LPR installations

[luke]

Short 90 degree with Intelliframe (or your own double) trigger for me.

If you make it a single trigger you will likely be limiting your sales to those building pumps.

If you make it a double trigger everyone can use it, not just pump players.

Unless you are making two versions.

Just saying.


:ninja:


One way or another there would for sure be a double trigger frame because that is what I want for myself. ;)

[luke]

I'm good with it. as long as those requesting it to be "pneu friendly" are as well. I would think some would find it pointless to make it pneu compatible and not sleeper capable. I could be totally off base. I personally don't care if it's pneu friendly.

I'm not sure when “Pneumag” became synonymous with “Sleeper Pneumag”. :)
But if it is possible to have the option of stuffing a Micro Reg in there I will, however like I said, it will not dictate the design, or not much.


Adding mounting points for various parts is not big deal over all and won’t significantly affect the over all price. Having a universal platform will help sales, not only for me but on the resale end too.

Part of this idea is for my benefit as much as the customers, not in terms of sales but more of a “low inventory” issue. ;)

[luke]

i would be pumped if you just offered CCM 86* frame milling services for mags... then you wouldnt have to develop an entire product :P


In general there is FAR less money to be made in modifying parts because of the time it takes to setup to do the work. In the end it’s much easier to setup and do a run of 50 parts than it would be to do 10 individual modification jobs. I know it is difficult to grasp that idea if you have never done machining work or any type of production in any industry but it is true. Production always rules over single part production. :)

Even with that said I'm still currently a "service shop" If you have a project contact me through PM and we can talk. ;)

[luke]

While its nice for what you have it for, I would not be interested in a production version of this.

I don’t think Hill was pooping on the idea; he is just making a point that there can be a lot done with the smaller grip platform. ;)

[hill160881]

Yes sir, and the smaller frame would be easier to do the cad work on. Especially if I send in the prototype. One could almost do both designs. :dance: Only kidding,,,,,,,,,,,sort of.

[sQuidvision]

In general there is FAR less money to be made in modifying parts because of the time it takes to setup to do the work. In the end it’s much easier to setup and do a run of 50 parts than it would be to do 10 individual modification jobs. I know it is difficult to grasp that idea if you have never done machining work or any type of production in any industry but it is true. Production always rules over single part production. :)

Even with that said I'm still currently a "service shop" If you have a project contact me through PM and we can talk. ;)
I had no idea! If it's less profitable then it sounds like you are on the right path anyhow for a product I would be interested In. Subscribed!

[luke]

A question for the guys that have built Pneumags, is the Fabco-Air MSV-2 used over the Clippard SMAV-3 because it is easier to mount or is it performance? If I recall correctly when these conversions were first being done guys were using the SMAV-3. This may be a chance to design a frame with the SMAV-3 in mind. I believe these take less force to activate…

[BiNumber3]

One way or another there would for sure be a double trigger frame because that is what I want for myself. ;)

Ah, in that case nevermind about the modular trigger guard:)

[renie]

The fabcos take less activation pressure but they are more easier to short stroke than the clippard

[M98Punk]

Wow Luke way to keep coming up with ways to get me to send you money, as it is I'm going to be sending another body into you.

If you did do the modular 86* I would be down for two frames. Otherwise I would be down for 1 double trigger frame... Be perfect for a gun I'm building to give it a bit of sizzle

[luke]

I may have come up with a great idea for this frame if we end up going with a detachable trigger guard. It’s something that has never been do-able on a Mag frame and something that DYI guys have always had to work around one way or another, I think it warrants the effort to design a modular frame. I have just about collected my thoughts on the design that I would like to pursue, so if you have any more input lets here it before I start on the CAD. :cool:

[Justus]

If you do a frame with a detachable trigger guard (conversion from single to double), please consider making an option of having a .45 frame. There's a lot of people who have been asking for a 90* or 86* frame, but the standard .45 frame will still draw a lot of buyers.

[mpsd]

I may have come up with a great idea for this frame if we end up going with a detachable trigger guard. It’s something that has never been do-able on a Mag frame and something that DYI guys have always had to work around one way or another, I think it warrants the effort to design a modular frame. I have just about collected my thoughts on the design that I would like to pursue, so if you have any more input lets here it before I start on the CAD. :cool:

Why not just do the front part of the frame taller and then make it compatible with Tippmann trigger guards? Is it really that hard to do?

Also, there was the old Boo-Yaah (I think that's how you spell it) electronic frame that had a removable trigger guard some good 15 years ago. You could mimic that one too.

A third option would be to make it as the Intimidator frames, which also allowed for replacing the trigger guard.

Although I like the first idea better as one could have a lot of options currently in the market for trigger frames.

[splat15k]

With the differing opinions on grip geometries, why not consider making the grip modular like a phantom? Modular trigger guard and grip would be ridiculously awesome. Might have to limit that to mech-only though, but not necessarily.

[luke]

Why not just do the front part of the frame taller and then make it compatible with Tippmann trigger guards? Is it really that hard to do?

Link/Picture? :)


Also, there was the old Boo-Yaah (I think that's how you spell it) electronic frame that had a removable trigger guard some good 15 years ago. You could mimic that one too.

Link/Picture? :)


A third option would be to make it as the Intimidator frames, which also allowed for replacing the trigger guard.

lol, Link/Picture? ;)


With the differing opinions on grip geometries, why not consider making the grip modular like a phantom? Modular trigger guard and grip would be ridiculously awesome. Might have to limit that to mech-only though, but not necessarily.

Need some links to the parts you guys are referring to...

[OPBN]

The problem with using Tippmann trigger guards is they are based on a clamshell design. Also, I think the only trigger guards available for them are plastic.

[luke]

I wont go with anything plastic.
Most likely I'll end up making them anyway...

[OPBN]

I happen to have an A5 frame laying around. The frame is actually three sections. A left half, right half and trigger guard. There are tabs on each end of the trigger gaurd that either are held in with screws or are just held in place by the frame halves:

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn308/oldpbnoob/A5frame002.jpg

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn308/oldpbnoob/A5frame001.jpg

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn308/oldpbnoob/A5frame003.jpg

[luke]

That wont work on this deal.
Thanks for the picture.

[mpsd]

I didn't know these are Clamshells. Anyways, you could do something like this as well:

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x299/mpsd18/Projects/triggerguard.jpg

And then all you would need would be a couple pins to hold it in place. You could either use a small screw or a pin like the ones we have for the trigger.

PS: I know my drawing sucks, to say the least but I only have Paint here and I wanted to give a brief idea only. :D

[wetwrks]

I didn't know these are Clamshells. Anyways, you could do something like this as well:

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x299/mpsd18/Projects/triggerguard.jpg

And then all you would need would be a couple pins to hold it in place. You could either use a small screw or a pin like the ones we have for the trigger.

PS: I know my drawing sucks, to say the least but I only have Paint here and I wanted to give a brief idea only. :D

This is basically what they do with the AR15/M16 platform of firearms. The trigger guard is held in place with 2 pins. Now...with that in mind you would have open holes where the guard would go if you set the frame up for a cangeable guard between single finger and double finger system. Some won't mind that, some won't like it.

[mpsd]

This is basically what they do with the AR15/M16 platform of firearms. The trigger guard is held in place with 2 pins. Now...with that in mind you would have open holes where the guard would go if you set the frame up for a cangeable guard between single finger and double finger system. Some won't mind that, some won't like it.

It depends, actually. All you need would be a design to have the double trigger one fit in the same hole as the single one. A "U" shaped one could do it quite well and easy.

[OPBN]

I didn't know these are Clamshells.
Yeah, most Tippys are clamshell. On the 98, the whole marker is a clamshell. On the A5, Phenom and X7 the frame is removable, but still clamshell.

I had thought the same thing though MPSD about having loops or something on either end.

[luke]

I have a pretty clean idea in mind to attach the trigger guard but will have to do the CAD to make sure it will work. I'm going to give this thread a few more days then I'll get busy.

[BTAutoMag]

here's a booyah.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/m-a-r-k-7/4221365935.jpg



dont know how it attatches but i'm sure an allen set screw would work

[splat15k]

From ASP:

http://www.airsoldier.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/phantomtrigframe.jpg

http://www.airsoldier.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/ccigripblocks.jpg

http://www.airsoldier.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/sergihumpback.jpg

Attaches with one screw.

[luke]

That looks like a manufacturing strategy to save money on materials.

[OPBN]

Would allow for 45 and 90. I think there might be some design issues though due to how the AGD sear protrudes into the frame.

[luke]

I don’t really like the design and would not incorporate something like that anyway. :)

[splat15k]

Would allow for 45 and 90. I think there might be some design issues though due to how the AGD sear protrudes into the frame.


Agreed; I just wanted to show the basic idea of a modular frame. I'm sure there is a more mag-friendly (sear clearance) method of attaching the frame to the trigger assembly.

[luke]

Keep the ideas coming, even if we don’t use it, it may spark an idea we can. I was kind of against a removable trigger guard at first but that idea ended up solving a design problem I had been working on for a few years.

[OPBN]

Just spitballing, but what about a combination of the ASP design and the clamshell? Top part of frame cold be solid and grip portion could be clamshell? And a removable trigger guard. This would be totally modular. you could have single/double trigger and vert of 45 grip. Having the bottom clamshell would allow for two pockets to be milled, one for single trigger guard and another lower down in the handle to accept a double guard.

[keiko_819]

I really dont see a need for a removable guard but who am I to judge what true love is... :D

[OPBN]

I really dont see a need for a removable guard but who am I to judge what true love is... :D
I think the point was to be able to manufacture one frame and be able to swap out single and double guards to make it more versatile.

[luke]

For me, it’s not so much that the double and single triggers can be swapped, but more so to do with the trigger design itself (In regard to function) . ;)

[Dark Side]

Why would an 86* be better than a 90* frame?

Comfort in my opinion.

[luke]

Comfort in my opinion.

4* is that big of a deal?

[OPBN]

4* is that big of a deal?

More likely because it allowed them to make proprietary grip panels.

[bbotts77]

From ASP:

http://www.airsoldier.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/phantomtrigframe.jpg

http://www.airsoldier.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/ccigripblocks.jpg

http://www.airsoldier.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/sergihumpback.jpg

Attaches with one screw.
The original stock Spyder frames were like this. If the screw holding the two pieces together wasn't super tight, It would result in really annoying movement and vibration.

[luke]

Why would an 86* be better than a 90* frame?


Comfort in my opinion.



4* is that big of a deal?

.
.
.


More likely because it allowed them to make proprietary grip panels.

;)

[BTAutoMag]

just make something outlandish like a J-grip or something :rofl:

wierd and wild stuff doesnt sell alot of but gathers a cult following

who knows, maybe you could start a trend :dance:

[OPBN]

.
.
.



;)
Which I don't mind as long as there is another option besides aluminum. I love aluminim grip panels, but hate having to get them anodized or powdercoated. Something in Delrin would be nice.

[Flatliner333]

If everyone wants options and versatility why not make a modular design?
You could have three parts to it ( rail / trigger guard / grip handle ) that would slide together on a dovetail type mounting system and set screws. The trigger guard would be held in place via dovetail and body/rail screw kinda like this.
<a href="http://s382.photobucket.com/albums/oo263/patrickmason/Modular%20Grip/?action=view&amp;current=Modulargripframe.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo263/patrickmason/Modular%20Grip/Modulargripframe.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[BTAutoMag]

I like that idea :headbang:

[Justus]

Make the trigger guard slide onto the grip in the same fashion that the Emag battery pack slides on, and held with set screws as well (from the inside of the grip) to avoid flexing and wear along the point where the trigger guard and grip meet.

[Justus]

Which I don't mind as long as there is another option besides aluminum. I love aluminim grip panels, but hate having to get them anodized or powdercoated. Something in Delrin would be nice.

Block of wood + drill and sandpaper + bottle of tung oil = any shape grips you want.

[OPBN]

Block of wood + drill and sandpaper + bottle of tung oil = any shape grips you want.
If you are wanting wood grips. ;)

[mpsd]

Make the trigger guard slide onto the grip in the same fashion that the Emag battery pack slides on, and held with set screws as well (from the inside of the grip) to avoid flexing and wear along the point where the trigger guard and grip meet.

This. And Flatliner, that's a great design. IIRC you uses it in the Eddie Mag (again, :headbang:), didn't you?

[Flatliner333]

Hmmmm "Lukes Flatliner Frame" :headbang: take that hill :p

[Justus]

If you are wanting wood grips. ;)

Who doesn't? :rofl:

:cheers:

[hill160881]

Hmmmm "Lukes Flatliner Frame" :headbang: take that hill :p
:hail:


But can you make the prototype with a dremal tool? :D

[Patron God of Pirates]

Just wanted to chime in and say I'm down with the concept as Luke last described it. As far as I'm concerned the more modular the better.

[NU_METAL]

If everyone wants options and versatility why not make a modular design?
You could have three parts to it ( rail / trigger guard / grip handle ) that would slide together on a dovetail type mounting system and set screws. The trigger guard would be held in place via dovetail and body/rail screw kinda like this.
<a href="http://s382.photobucket.com/albums/oo263/patrickmason/Modular%20Grip/?action=view&amp;current=Modulargripframe.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo263/patrickmason/Modular%20Grip/Modulargripframe.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Me likey vewy much

[RogueFactor]

If everyone wants options and versatility why not make a modular design?
You could have three parts to it ( rail / trigger guard / grip handle ) that would slide together on a dovetail type mounting system and set screws. The trigger guard would be held in place via dovetail and body/rail screw kinda like this.
<a href="http://s382.photobucket.com/albums/oo263/patrickmason/Modular%20Grip/?action=view&amp;current=Modulargripframe.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo263/patrickmason/Modular%20Grip/Modulargripframe.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Been working on a similar concept for a few years now. Similar in concept, not quite the same mounts.To make it all work is not so easy. Making it look good is even harder. Function and form are both important when it comes to being modular.

[Flatliner333]

I'm sure Luke could figure it out. I spent about 20 minutes on paint drawing that up just to show concept but I'm sure all the measurements aren't right.My idea is this. What if the safety was built into the trigger guard's ,the guard's would have the female part of the dovetail on the top and side. The trigger would mount in the rail,the rail has the male side of the dovetail on the bottom. The top of the grip's have female and the side of the grip has male. Slide the guard down on the grip, tighten set screw. Slide the rail from the back forward. Install trigger (there is an opening in top of guard / bottom of rail ) after mag rail,sear and body are put on - the front body screw goes up through trigger guard and ties it all together. The front of the guard would only allow the grip frame rail to slide forward so much aligning the holes. Provisions for Pnue, E-Pnue or Electro could then be worked out.

[luke]

Which I don't mind as long as there is another option besides aluminum. I love aluminim grip panels, but hate having to get them anodized or powdercoated. Something in Delrin would be nice.

I will try and make them work with standard 45 grips and offer aluminum as an option.

[luke]

OK, we are underway as of today… :cool:

[BTAutoMag]

:bounce: :hail: :dance:

[keiko_819]

... :headbang:

[luke]

On the Micro Rock Reg (http://palmer-pursuit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8_25_27&products_id=48) from Palmers he lists the length as 2.3" I assume it is JUST the housing (Not including the threaded piece), can someone verify this for me?

[BTAutoMag]

On the Micro Rock Reg (http://palmer-pursuit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8_25_27&products_id=48) from Palmers he lists the length as 2.3" I assume it is JUST the housing (Not including the threaded piece), can someone verify this for me?

as soon as I get home I will help you on this

[hill160881]

Does this mean you are looking into a gas through LPR front grip?

[BTAutoMag]

ok here are the measurments.

dia: 0.865
lenght of body minus 1/8" npt (cant think of word) 2.222
with "1/8" npt input" 2.769
adjustment screw adds 0.343 backed ALL the way out with one thread in. about 0.113 when I feel it touch something
length from bottom of the body to the center of LP air out bung 0.575


hope this helps :dance:

[luke]

Does this mean you are looking into a gas through LPR front grip?

Currently working on the grip frame, seeing if I can fit the MRR for the sleeper. ;)

[knownothingmags]

Currently working on the grip frame, seeing if I can fit the MRR for the sleeper. ;)
cool, cant wait,

[luke]

ok here are the measurments.

dia: 0.865
lenght of body minus 1/8" npt (cant think of word) 2.222
with "1/8" npt input" 2.769
adjustment screw adds 0.343 backed ALL the way out with one thread in. about 0.113 when I feel it touch something
length from bottom of the body to the center of LP air out bung 0.575




BT can you get me two more dimensions?

Dimension from either the top or bottom of the regulator to centerline of the LP port coming out the side and how far the fitting sticks out the side. Thanks. :cheers:

[BTAutoMag]

Dimension from either the top or bottom of the regulator to centerline of the LP port coming out the side

...read it again



how far the fitting sticks out the side.


I dont have a fitting in mine. nor do I have any around

[El Zilcho]

Does this mean you are looking into a gas through LPR front grip?
I have seen a few ideas kicked around, I think this would sell very well if done correctly.

[luke]

...read it again



oops, missed that. :p


I dont have a fitting in mine. nor do I have any around

NP I can guess on that..

[luke]

I drew these up today, thought I would post them up just for fun. The trigger is just a spacer filler for my current drawings.

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/frameparts.jpg

I have the basic frame geometry done, I believe I am settling in on an 86* frame. I drew several 90* frames that were so-so, but I really like the final 86* drawing. We'll see how it pans out as I progress in the project.

[sQuidvision]

I don't know what's wrong with me luke but I can't make out the shape of the frame in the pic you posted... Can you throw up another picture? :rofl:

[luke]

I'm not there yet; it may end up changing as I start working in the different components. Plus I'm still working on the two different trigger guards.

[C_losjoker]

I don't know what's wrong with me luke but I can't make out the shape of the frame in the pic you posted... Can you throw up another picture? :rofl:


Its the new chameleon frame, if you put it down you will never find it again.

[knownothingmags]

I drew these up today, thought I would post them up just for fun. The trigger is just a spacer filler for my current drawings.

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/frameparts.jpg

I have the basic frame geometry done, I believe I am settling in on an 86* frame. I drew several 90* frames that were so-so, but I really like the final 86* drawing. We'll see how it pans out as I progress in the project.
crazy, sitting here explaining automags to my wife, "like i always do" drawing almost the same exact thing.

this new frame should be awsome.

EDIT: not as detailed of course, but im getting there.:D:D:D

[sQuidvision]

I'm not there yet; it may end up changing as I start working in the different components. Plus I'm still working on the two different trigger guards.
Just giving you grief! I can't wait to see what you come up with!

[luke]

In regard to a detachable trigger guard that will allow you to change between double and single triggers, what is more important, looks the ability to use twist lock barrels?

[mpsd]

In regard to a detachable trigger guard that will allow you to change between double and single triggers, what is more important, looks the ability to use twist lock barrels?

I see why you ask... That's a good question, actually. I'd say being able to use it with a twist lock. But I'm like 52% / 48% on that LOL

[keiko_819]

i know that for me if i have a custom trigger on a mag, most of the marker is aftermarket parts, i only have one twist lock body that i use with an intelliframe and that is on my warp fed mag, all other twist locks i own are loaners and have a stock style frame on it...so id say im like 85-90% looks and 10-15% twist lock capable(100% function though)... :headbang:

[BTAutoMag]

hmmmmmmmmmm

Id say using twist lock is important. or just mark the frame so WE can drill out for the twist lock ourselves if we need it

[sQuidvision]

I could care less if it works with twist locks... ULE or bust for me!

[luke]

hmmmmmmmmmm

Id say using twist lock is important. or just mark the frame so WE can drill out for the twist lock ourselves if we need it

Not even close to being possible. If it were I would not have ask the question. ;)

[luke]

I see why you ask... That's a good question, actually. I'd say being able to use it with a twist lock. But I'm like 52% / 48% on that LOL

Theres is always Docs Cocker conversion part. EDIT: Rethinking this, does it use the twist-lock pin to hole it in place? I've never seen one.
or
A butt ugly frame.
or
None removable trigger guard frame. (Which eliminates a super cool trigger design I have in mind for Pneumag or EPmag setups)

:rofl:

[BTAutoMag]

then no twist lock

[luke]

Another option is to move the trigger guard forward, but then you could not use the AM rail with a foergrip or pump parts.

[luke]

Another thing I can add without affecting the foregrip mount or pump attachments (On the AM/MM frame) is enlarging the space inside the trigger guard. However you would have to shorten the sear clevis pin if you want to run a mechanical setup.

It would be as simple as grinding off the tip a specified amount and readjusting to fine tune back to factory spec.

(??)

[BTAutoMag]

make the foregrip mount into the frame

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g45/jrm33/v01_cutaway.jpg

[luke]

make the foregrip mount into the frame



Not really interested in that type of setup on this frame. :)

[mpsd]

Theres is always Docs Cocker conversion part.
or
A butt ugly frame.
or
None removable trigger guard frame. (Which eliminates a super cool trigger design I have in mind for Pneumag or EPmag setups)

:rofl:

In that case, go for the looks and forget about the twist lock assembly. I'm really curious to see what you come up with in the end. Besides, as I put more thought to it, having a single trigger e-pneu setup will take me to an ULE body anyways.

[luke]

Small update, I have enlarged the guard for more finger space without sacrificing foregrip and pump add-ons for the AM/MM rails. As of now it looks like it will be an easy adjustment of the clevis pin if you are running a mechanical frame.

I believe I will go to a top bearing trigger design for the Pneu and EP triggers specifically designed for this frame (Wont work in the Intelli frame) I just need to find a place to get them. Also the trigger will have a magnetic return like the Emag, including stops in both directions.

I believe the 45 grip usage on this frame will need to be dropped just so we can have a nice platform for DYI guys to build the frame. 45 grips have mount holes that are less than optimum for this. I'll just do some cool grips in aluminum that will be unique to this frame fitting similar to the CCM frame. With them inlayed a little I can get away with a single screw mount per side putting the screw where ever I see fit.

Does anyone have a 90* fitting from palmers (http://palmer-pursuit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=141_1_11&products_id=55) that you can measure and give me the specs on? It will save me some time of having to order them so I can keep moving forward with the cads.

[BTAutoMag]

darn you, I just got one of those but my vernier is at work and I wont be back till monday

[hill160881]

I am a flinger and I HATE magnetic return triggers. A spring and a tension release magnet in the top where the return stop screw goes is the best for a snappy feel. Trust me a snappy trigger is the way to go, not a mushy mess. The mini and Emag have the worst triggers EVER!

I have put extensive thought into this and it will be necessary for fast Pneu-mag operation to minimize short-stroking. You need to build up enough pressure on the trigger so that when it releases there is enough force to trip a 3-way. Properly set up tension release triggers can allow pneu-mags to rip as fast as EP setups without the short-stroking. Again it needs to be snappy, not mushy.



See the screws on the top of the trigger? The front screw is the one that get closer or further away from the magnet in the frame adjusting the release tension, the screw in the rear sets the forward play.
http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd410/Where_am_I1/images-1.jpg

Make more sense now?

[hill160881]

Luke-My digital micros are down or I would have you the dimensions already. lol Dam the digital age haha.

[luke]

Luke-My digital micros are down or I would have you the dimensions already. lol Dam the digital age haha.

I buy semi cheap dial calipers because I tend to drop them. :cuss:

[mpsd]

Any news here? A sketch, maybe?

[Spider-TW]

Theres is always Docs Cocker conversion part. EDIT: Rethinking this, does it use the twist-lock pin to hole it in place? I've never seen one.
or
A butt ugly frame.
or
None removable trigger guard frame. (Which eliminates a super cool trigger design I have in mind for Pneumag or EPmag setups)

:rofl:

Since I didn't see the answer above; yes, Doc's adapter uses the twistlock. It has three holes (not slots) for the twistlock pin that hold the adapter to right, left, or center feed body alignment. That means you have to lift the body off the rail to get the adapter out.

The adapter is really useful when you need to put on a sized barrel, but I've never built a mag with the intent of using one. You also need to consider the "upgrade" people vs the "builder" people. The upgraders take advantage of the modularity of mags and upgrade one thing at a time. You will have to make it clear that your frame won't work on a twistlock body, or suffer the returns.

***

You could make a leaf spring type twistlock that sits in a slot in the top of the frame. If they don't want the "twistlock assembly", then you call the slot "ULE milling".

[luke]

Any news here? A sketch, maybe?

I'm still plugin away, had to order some parts yesterday to measure so it will probably be a week till I get them. If I were just doing a single design with a single purpose I would probably have the prototype machined already but there’s quite a bit going on here so it's going to take me some time to figure it all out. :)

[luke]

The air fittings came in today so I can get back to work... :cool:

[mpsd]

The air fittings came in today so I can get back to work... :cool:

:headbang: I'm really excited about this frame.

[keiko_819]

:headbang: I'm really excited about this frame.

+ 1... :headbang:

[sQuidvision]

i am pumped to see how this turns out... i might have to sell my chimera to buy one of these :)

[BTAutoMag]

Any news here? A sketch, maybe?

could you get a blurry picture of what you have so far. maybe walking in the woods of Louisiana?

I'M VERY EXCITE! :bounce:

[luke]

Form follows function, so this stage is very boring; it’s currently all about mathematics and not about looks.

[luke]

Can anyone help with out with where I can get trigger bearings and Emag size magnets in bulk? (I’ll admit that I’m being lazy and have not looked myself, just looking for a short cut) :rolleyes:

[Arstron]

For bearing maybe http://www.bocabearings.com/

[luke]

Little up date, it looks like 45 grip compatibility is out. Having to design around them puts unnecessary limits on the frame and forces me to make it longer than I really want. I think I will just machine panels with a single screw mount and a small recess to maintain location. There was mention of making it compatible with the CCM grip panels. Myself, I don’t really care enough to purchase a pair to design around. So if you guys want that option I will need a donor pair (That I will return) to look at, we need them sent in ASAP.

The Micro Rock is out too as far as the sleeper configuration goes; it too is severely limiting design and space. I again was forced into making the frame longer in order to make space for it. If everyone really needs a sleeper setup I can do a foregrip to hide the LPR or perhaps those working on the LPR Foregrip will complete them to fill that gap. Plus I’m not willing to sacrifice the design parameters I have in mind in order to hide a regulator inside the grip especially when it is not necessary. At any rate that will just have to be a different project.

The detachable trigger guard is looking promising and at this point it is becoming to main drive of the project. It will allow me to design a trigger for the Pneu/EP Mag setups to aid in building those. In addition you should still be able to use your favorite Intelli trigger for mechanical mode. I don’t really know much about the single triggers that are out there so I will manufacture one for purchase with your frame. If AGD single triggers use the same geometry parameters as the Intelli they should work on this frame.

My only concern at this point is on the single trigger pneu-mag setup, there would be a lack of leverage on the trigger to trip the MSV-2 or the SMAV-3, it may be a tad snug. The single trigger EP Mag (Micro switch) should not be an issue…

[OPBN]

Boing!

[Spider-TW]

My only concern at this point is on the single trigger pneu-mag setup, there would be a lack of leverage on the trigger to trip the MSV-2 or the SMAV-3, it may be a tad snug. The single trigger EP Mag (Micro switch) should not be an issue…

My first pneu setup had the trigger rod just above center of my bottom finger. The lack of leverage on the top finger wasn't so noticeable, but the difference between the top and bottom was. That was with less than 1/2 of the msv-2 lever. With one finger you should be good, especially if you use a full MSV lever.

Just out of curiosity, would this single trigger have a ball bearing?

[mpsd]

Are you planning to mill the pockets for the trigger switch and MPA-3 as well so that one can easily assemble it with no need to do extra modifications?

[luke]

Are you planning to mill the pockets for the trigger switch and MPA-3 as well so that one can easily assemble it with no need to do extra modifications?

MPA3 will be available fully machined ready for install.
Frame will be ready for:
MPA with Palmer 90
SMAV3
MSV2
D2F (or any micro switch)

The frame will not need a "rod" to activate the switches, the trigger will be designed for that.

I don’t have concrete answers on the bearings yet, but it is my plan to use a bearing in both the double and single trigger.

[BTAutoMag]

do we have a ballpark price yet?

[luke]

do we have a ballpark price yet?

lol, surely you jest…

[BTAutoMag]

i did say ballbark :rolleyes:

[mpsd]

MPA3 will be available fully machined ready for install.
Frame will be ready for:
MPA with Palmer 90
SMAV3
MSV2
D2F (or any micro switch)

The frame will not need a "rod" to activate the switches, the trigger will be designed for that.

I don’t have concrete answers on the bearings yet, but it is my plan to use a bearing in both the double and single trigger.

:headbang:

[luke]

i did say ballbark :rolleyes:

Sorry I don’t have a single clue, I am no where near being able to even consider that.

[Arstron]

The Micro Rock is out too as far as the sleeper configuration goes; it too is severely limiting design and space. I again was forced into making the frame longer in order to make space for it. If everyone really needs a sleeper setup I can do a foregrip to hide the LPR or perhaps those working on the LPR Foregrip will complete them to fill that gap. Plus I’m not willing to sacrifice the design parameters I have in mind in order to hide a regulator inside the grip especially when it is not necessary. At any rate that will just have to be a different project.

While reading this I had a thought that crossed my mind, I am not sure how possible it would be or how economical, im just throwing out there. I also realize that simpler is usually better and im sure it is in this situation, but I figured id throw this out there anyway.

The original Dangerous Power Fusion has screw in LPR that also alows higher pressure to pass through it. The part of the LPR that screws into the body of the fusion is 1 1/2" long and 5/8 dia, the part that sticks outside the body is 7/16" deep and 3/4" dia. What I was thinking was a gas through foregrip design that could accept one of these lpr's in the bottom. I got a new program for the sign shop and needed the practice so below is a picture of roughly what I was thinking. Since a new regulator came in the parts kit and in their "hyper color kit" I know there has to be lots of unused LPR out there for it, I have 3 full working extras and a couple without any parts in them.

http://www.fusionowners.org/magforegrip.jpg

The top piece was an afterthought, it is a vertical asa that would go with it. The red is for HP, the yellow LP, green are orings, blue are fittings, brown is the foregrip and grey is the asa. Everything on the bottom is a recreation of the fusion lpr.

... I think I have to much time on my hands... :cheers:

[mpsd]

Are we there yet?

[luke]

With what free time? ;)

Have not even had a free second to even think about this project with the fund raiser stuff going on. ;)

[mpsd]

With what free time? ;)

Have not even had a free second to even think about this project with the fund raiser stuff going on. ;)

Fair enough. But if you come up with this after the first week of October, you will have to hold one for me up to February so I can bring it with me next time I'll go to the US next year. ;) I was really hoping to take one on this next trip...

:cheers:

[BTAutoMag]

With what free time? ;)

Have not even had a free second to even think about this project with the fund raiser stuff going on. ;)
do you have free time now? :rolleyes:

[luke]

Got my brain back into this project finally, gotta make some changes in the original design and concept just to get this out, more info as it progresses.

I'm looking probably about a week and a half to get back to designing.

[BTAutoMag]

w00t, still trying to save up :p

[keiko_819]

count me in...im itchin to build me a new pump.. :headbang:

[robnix]

Got my brain back into this project finally, gotta make some changes in the original design and concept just to get this out, more info as it progresses.

I'm looking probably about a week and a half to get back to designing.

Looks like I came back at just the right time. Looking forward to your work, count me in.

[BTAutoMag]

I went through and re-read this thread.... (i rhymed :p ) and every time i get a sense of where its going I loose myself again...

So what I have gathered:

-It will be switchable from single to 2x trigger
-It will be a pneu-frame. can it be used as a mech?
-It will not be compatable with 45 grips. will it be a 45 frame? do we get panels with it?
-I am becoming very annoying.

did I miss anything? what do we have set in stone as of yet?

[luke]

Got my brain back into this project finally, gotta make some changes in the original design and concept just to get this out, more info as it progresses.


;)

[BTAutoMag]

so the only thing set in stone is me being annoying :spit_take

[OPBN]

so the only thing set in stone is me being annoying :spit_take
First step in recovery is admitting you have a problem. ;)

[luke]

Nothing is concrete until all prototypes are completed and the production run is ready to roll. :cool:

[knownothingmags]

im up for testing a prototype on the triple mag.

[BTAutoMag]

The anticipation! Update?

[luke]

lol, Big changes being made. :)
That's the problem with letting time laps between design sessions. I actually have 3 complete frames designed and 1 about 3/4 of the way done, however I have desided against marketing any of them. :rolleyes:

[BTAutoMag]

why? not. if someone will buy them... make them :rolleyes:

[luke]

I suppose that’s a good question, mostly because the design process is really just a small part of actually bringing one to market. The programming still has to be done, machine set up, program proofing and fine tuning and prototype testing, etc. Doing all this myself takes a great deal of time, effort and headache. So I try get as close to right as possible before getting that far along in the process. And I think each design gets better and more refined after all the extra thought and (re)design time. Not to mention I’m getting better at programming (which has to do with the design of the part) to save time in manufacturing. Some of the older designs would have left very little room for profit because of the complexity in design. (So on and so forth)

[luke]

Update:

I have completed the design for a double trigger, 86* mechanical frame. It uses AGD triggers and safety parts. This frame was designed with Pneumag conversions in mind and should be very easy to set up. However it will not come ready to install your parts, just a platform to do so. It will come with aluminum grips specifically made for this grip.
I will also do a single trigger version. The model is not done, but is only a few more hours of design and programming in order to cut a prototype.

I still have to program the machining, but have ordered the tooling and I have materials. I should be ready to machine the prototype when the tooling arrives.

This is far from what I set out to do but I just can’t seem to find the time needed to design it.

[BTAutoMag]

oooo. can we get a screen shot of the design so far? :clap:

[OPBN]

This is far from what I set out to do but I just can’t seem to find the time needed to design it. Why put out something you're not 100% on? If what you envisioned is considerably better, why not just wait until you have the time and do it the way you really want it done?

[BTAutoMag]

Why put out something you're not 100% on? If what you envisioned is considerably better, why not just wait until you have the time and do it the way you really want it done?


why does he have to make just one :D

[luke]

Why put out something you're not 100% on? If what you envisioned is considerably better, why not just wait until you have the time and do it the way you really want it done?

Well that's just it, because my EP frame design and concept was being severely altered in style and function. I would rather do 3 frames than produce one frame I was not completely happy with. ;)

[BTAutoMag]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5elNDNdhOZw/SJ5G19CThmI/AAAAAAAAAEk/9h0BKs57LrM/s400/whos-awesome.jpg

[luke]

Getting there... :bounce:
The programming proved to take more effort than I first anticipated but we are about there. Unless I think of something this evening that throws a monkey wrench in the middle of everything I should be cutting the first operation tomorrow. In all OP1 is about 80% of the machining. If everything works out the rest should be a breeze.

:cool:

[BTAutoMag]

sweet :clap:

[OPBN]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5elNDNdhOZw/SJ5G19CThmI/AAAAAAAAAEk/9h0BKs57LrM/s400/whos-awesome.jpg
You are = you're.

Looking forward to seeing the proto. Hoping I have money sometime soon to spend... :(

[BTAutoMag]

thats funny, I went to goggle and typed in "youre awesome" and that picture came up.

[Grelvire]

Update:

I have completed the design for a double trigger, 86* mechanical frame. It uses AGD triggers and safety parts. This frame was designed with Pneumag conversions in mind and should be very easy to set up. However it will not come ready to install your parts, just a platform to do so. It will come with aluminum grips specifically made for this grip.
I will also do a single trigger version. The model is not done, but is only a few more hours of design and programming in order to cut a prototype.

I still have to program the machining, but have ordered the tooling and I have materials. I should be ready to machine the prototype when the tooling arrives.

This is far from what I set out to do but I just can’t seem to find the time needed to design it.


:clap: So want to see this come to fruition.........love 86* frames

[splat15k]

:clap: So want to see this come to fruition.........love 86* frames


Agreed!

[luke]

Need to work on my fixturing, first two attempts bombed. :cuss: (Trying to cut corners)

[luke]

Not sure how many updates are necessary, but I came up with a new manufacturing strategy today, designed and programmed a fixture, and redid the programming for the first operation. Should be able to make some chips tomorrow. :cool:

[sQuidvision]

Sweet! i am currently gathering parts for another build and i plan on using one of these frames! (unless its hideously ugly or something :p )

[luke]

One more operation on the frame! (woo-hoo)
All that is left is the top and bottom machining of the frame. Trigger pocket/MPA3 area and the asa screws on the bottom.

Still have to make grip panels but I need materails..

[TOTShadowCompany]

:clap: :headbang: :dance: :D

[Grelvire]

"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" - Willy Wonka :D

[luke]

"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" - Willy Wonka :D

Gonna try and do the last of the machining tomorrow, got a little off track today. :p
(But I did spend Saturday and Sunday fine tuning the design and programming which will make for a nicer grip)

[keiko_819]

:headbang: :hail: :cheers:

[luke]

"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" - Willy Wonka :D

Man now that I think about it, I hope this is not being “over sold” as it was never my intention. The original design concept is not what I ended up going with. Although I’m stoked about the grip frame were just talking about an 86* grip with tinkering in mind. If AGD were to make an 86" frame this would probably be it (In regard to the basic shape).

With all that said, I laid out 7 different AM grips with this one included and this is by far my favorite. :D

[BTAutoMag]

youre gonna make me cry luke, at least take a blurry picture of it walking through the woods :(

[luke]

youre gonna make me cry luke, at least take a blurry picture of it walking through the woods :(

It's no secrete at this point, give me a minute and I'll snap a shot. :D

[luke]

<a href="http://s550.beta.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/LC861.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/LC861.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>

<a href="http://s550.beta.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/LC862.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/LC862.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>

The solid part at the top will be milled out from the top, a MPA3 should fit nicely.
Uses AGD triggers and safety parts.
Aluminum grips.
These will be lighter than the Intelli frame.
I'm going to do a single trigger design too.

Not sure what to do with an ASA mount on the bottom, with dove tails, T-slots, standard ASA 10-32 screw holes and sleeper mods being done to frames these days I’m tempted to not do any machining there at all. (?)

[splat15k]

:wow: Awesome!!!! :cheers:

Edit: Regarding the ASA mounting: I don't think you can go wrong with the two 10-32 screws. If somebody wants a T or dovetail ASA, they can bolt on a rail.

[BTAutoMag]

I'm in love :hail:

[GenaroWasHere]

I too am also super stoked about this as well in addition to. Also. Me excited.

No but seriously. This looks awesome.

[mpsd]

I'm going to do a single trigger design too.

Looking forward to this!


Not sure what to do with an ASA mount on the bottom, with dove tails, T-slots, standard ASA 10-32 screw holes and sleeper mods being done to frames these days I’m tempted to not do any machining there at all. (?)

I think that 10-32 would be the least acceptable for those of us that don't have the tools or the knowledge to mod the frame ourselves. A dove-tail would be cool and in line with what's being used by most people today.

:cheers:

[Grelvire]

Not sure what to do with an ASA mount on the bottom, with dove tails, T-slots, standard ASA 10-32 screw holes and sleeper mods being done to frames these days I’m tempted to not do any machining there at all. (?)

:bounce:

Think dovetails and 10-32 screw holes would cover alot of the options. IMO

[Arstron]

It looks very comfortable, I will have to get one of these, not sure if I will get a single or double trigger first though...

[knownothingmags]

looks like we found the frame for the tripple mag.
:cheers:

awsome work luke.

[BTAutoMag]

how many are you gonna buy KNM? :rofl:

[Donut SD]

I'm down for a single trigger version.

[need4reebs]

nice!!! looks like the search is over for a new frame! will they be drilled and tapped for a LPR??? :ninja:

[luke]

will they be drilled and tapped for a LPR??? :ninja:

Nope.

These will sell as a mechanical frame only with a platform for the tinker to start with. We will see where it goes from there. ;)

[knownothingmags]

<a href="http://s550.beta.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/LC861.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/LC861.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>

<a href="http://s550.beta.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/LC862.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/LC862.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>

The solid part at the top will be milled out from the top, a MPA3 should fit nicely.
Uses AGD triggers and safety parts.
Aluminum grips.
These will be lighter than the Intelli frame.
I'm going to do a single trigger design too.

Not sure what to do with an ASA mount on the bottom, with dove tails, T-slots, standard ASA 10-32 screw holes and sleeper mods being done to frames these days I’m tempted to not do any machining there at all. (?)
are you going to make a version that has every possible oz. taken off?
such as milling chanels in the trigger guard, milling out a canel in behind the trigger like the Iframe has.

i know this is a very minor suggestion and prolly makes the frame sale price go up.
maybe i need to wait for the final product since this one is not done yet.

Great work so far,
:cheers:
thankyou,
KNM

[sQuidvision]

Yup... I just got a new dose of patience... I need one of these!

I can't wait to see the single trigger version.

[TimmyJay]

I would like to see a rail "milling" into the top with an RT sear inset... and a single trigger would be fantastic. ;)

[luke]

are you going to make a version that has every possible oz. taken off?
such as milling chanels in the trigger guard, milling out a canel in behind the trigger like the Iframe has.

i know this is a very minor suggestion and prolly makes the frame sale price go up.
maybe i need to wait for the final product since this one is not done yet.

Great work so far,
:cheers:
thankyou,
KNM

Right now there is a difference of 19 grams between a stock intelli and mine which is unfinished. My guess is it will come in under a stock frame when we're done. The final product will be much as you see it here (I made some minor changes that most guys wont pick up on) but with the top finished (of course), my intent is to keep the up front cost as low as possible so you guys can decide what additional work you want. Some guys will choose to use it as is but they won’t have to pay for all the additional machine work. If I choose all the mods up front it will leave less room personal customization and the final product will cost more. :)

[luke]

It seems like everyone is interested in the single trigger frame, am I wasting my time on the double?

[livebrando]

I can't see from the photo, but do you still need a rail with this frame?

[livebrando]

+1 for the forgrip that hides LPR.

luke: "If everyone really needs a sleeper setup I can do a foregrip to hide the LPR "

[luke]

I can't see from the photo, but do you still need a rail with this frame?

Yes you do, its just a grip frame.

[knownothingmags]

It seems like everyone is interested in the single trigger frame, am I wasting my time one the double?
i know i need a double for the tripple mag since it will be pneumatic,
but thats my preference.

:cheers:,
KNM

[knownothingmags]

luke will you stock these?

[luke]

luke will you stock these?

I'm not exactly sure how this will go down right out of the gate, I may end up just doing a small run of both to see if they sell.

[wetwrks]

I would be interrested in one of these.

[Merce]

:cuss: you Luke. Just when I thought I'd be done planning more stuff to buy.

[keiko_819]

count me in for at least one of these...im gonna :eek: my pants when i get to see the single trigger frame...great work, once again Luke :headbang: :hail:

[mpsd]

Luke, do you intend to offer some extra custom work over the standard product at extra cost as well? For example, I'd love having a single trigger one modded for e-pneu operation.

Thanks,

Mendel.

[luke]

Luke, do you intend to offer some extra custom work over the standard product at extra cost as well? For example, I'd love having a single trigger one modded for e-pneu operation.

Thanks,

Mendel.

Yes of course, but I really don’t have the time to do that type of research, design, setup and testing, I'm just spread to thin as it is. The machining is the easy part. ;) :)

Mostly I just want to get some frames out there to see where this goes. I’m not dead set any one particular direction, really you guys and the frame itself will dictate where it goes or ends.

[sQuidvision]

It seems like everyone is interested in the single trigger frame, am I wasting my time on the double?
If the price is right I may buy one of each.

Edit: I would actually be more likely to buy two singles. Plenty of double frame options out there although yours does look awesome.

Will you be having these finished or just sell them raw?

[luke]

Will you be having these finished or just sell them raw?

Just raw, sorry.

[Grelvire]

I'd be interested in one of each

[rukh013]

<a href="http://s550.beta.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/LC861.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/LC861.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>

<a href="http://s550.beta.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/LC862.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/LC862.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>

The solid part at the top will be milled out from the top, a MPA3 should fit nicely.
Uses AGD triggers and safety parts.
Aluminum grips.
These will be lighter than the Intelli frame.
I'm going to do a single trigger design too.

Not sure what to do with an ASA mount on the bottom, with dove tails, T-slots, standard ASA 10-32 screw holes and sleeper mods being done to frames these days I’m tempted to not do any machining there at all. (?)


This looks so nice I want one... Imagine some sweet rosewood grips on this

[Loguzzzzzz]

Update:

I have completed the design for a double trigger, 86* mechanical frame. It uses AGD triggers and safety parts.

This frame looks more like a short 90* than an 86* frame. The area where your fingers will grip the frame looks to small to me. This is most likely why the original 90* frame made by Freeflow were made longer!

BTW These were originally made for the autococker before Rogue copied them for the automag platform!

[sQuidvision]

The area where your fingers will grip the frame looks to small to me. This is most likely why the original 90* frame made by Freeflow were made longer! !
This is one of the reasons I'm pumped about a single trigger option!

[luke]

This frame looks more like a short 90* than an 86* frame.

Actually it is exactly 86* :)


The area where your fingers will grip the frame looks to small to me. !

I assure you this is not the case, there is plenty of room and it is quite comfortable.



This is most likely why the original 90* frame made by Freeflow were made longer

I can't speak to that because I don’t know why they did what they did, but like I said the grip fits quite nicely in your hand, if it were a problem I would change it. Really its not even "border line" too short.


BTW These were originally made for the autococker before Rogue copied them for the automag platform!

I'm pretty sure he copied the length so Angel grips could be used.

[luke]

This is one of the reasons I'm pumped about a single trigger option!

When shooting a two finger trigger frame how many fingers do you use to hold the bottom of your grip frame?

[luke]

Are you guys implying you want a grip the length of an Angel frame? If so speak up cuz its less work for me, I wont have to make grips, I can use existing stock. :cool:

If there is no interest in a double trigger frame, lmk know now before I spend more time and money. I can switch over to the single version pretty easy, it really does not matter to me one way or another. :)

[dboggs79]

When shooting a two finger trigger frame how many fingers do you use to hold the bottom of your grip frame?

Exactly! Personally, when using a two finger frame, I really barely grip the frame much at all. I use my offhand on the reg/foregrip more to hold and steady the gun. Kinda hard two walk a trigger if you have your hand completely wrapped around the grip. I like the frame the way it is. Hoping to get both single and two finger styles. Great work!

[mpsd]

Are you guys implying you want a grip the length of an Angel frame? If so speak up cuz its less work for me, I wont have to make grips, I can use existing stock. :cool:

If there is no interest in a double trigger frame, lmk know now before I spend more time and money. I can switch over to the single version pretty easy, it really does not matter to me one way or another. :)

I like it as it is now in terms of length but I want a single trigger one, instead.

[hill160881]

It seems like everyone is interested in the single trigger frame, am I wasting my time on the double?
I wont say it :p



But i would take a single trigger frame to.

[knownothingmags]

Are you guys implying you want a grip the length of an Angel frame? If so speak up cuz its less work for me, I wont have to make grips, I can use existing stock. :cool:

If there is no interest in a double trigger frame, lmk know now before I spend more time and money. I can switch over to the single version pretty easy, it really does not matter to me one way or another. :)

if you dont make any double besides the one you showed.
i would be interested in taking that one off your hands.
i would like a double for sure.

thankyou,
KNM