what's your effective distance?

[hoppr]

just curious about the distance people are shooting accurately? i am running a minimag with nitro and a 12" all-american barrel. i seem to be accurate to about 40 yards or so with an arching trajectory. my friends cocker seems to shoot at the same distance with a much flatter trajectory and we're running the same fps. any ideas?

[Butterfingers]

Tape a square peice of wood on top of your mag this will give you the aiming perspective of a cocker. Now your trajectories will look identical.

Range is mathamatically related to trajectory. Same FPS= same range and trajectory.

However range and trajectories can LOOK diffrent depending on where your refrence point is. Our mind plays tricks on us when we try to percieve 3 dimensions.

If you look down a straight stretch of railroad do the rails converge in reality?, do they appear to converge?

[TheSneakyPengui]

When I usally shoot someone it is from about 20 ft away or closer. So all I have to work on is acuracy by volume, jk, I only use maybe a half a case for a day. Peace.

[Havoc_online]

butterfingers strikes again with the perfect reply, it is simple physics, if both balls leave the barrel at 300fps they are going to go the same distance. But what if both balls are'nt the same shape? Since Automags are blow forward guns and Autocockers are close-bolt the autococker tends to be easier on the paint, while the Automag might warp the round a little which may change it's flightpath slightly. Another idea is bore size of both your barrels and matching them up to the paint you shot....maybe one of you had the advantage.....

[Butterfingers]

Another information tidbit :)

Alot of people seem to have aquired wrong information from the infamous smart part's story telling marketing department. Paintball water balloons do not exist.

There is high speed video of a paintball being fired from a test setup mixed in with the intro of every Automag RT video. At any pressure a paintball does not warp.

If a paintball warped it would break. Physycal elasticity also does not change from 0-300fps.

Get a tape, show the world! Perhaps we can get manufacturers to stop lying.

[Havoc_online]

if a paintball warped, it would break......


well then how can I make a dent in a single round in my hand? isn't this changeing its shape? it does happen i've seen it happen myself in testing, firing at cushions that could not have dented the rounds, it happened when it came out of the barrel, I'VE DONE THIS MYSELF....... if the ball is dented or warped in any way, it will change flightpath while it's spinning in air..

[Butterfingers]

Im not trying to start an arguement but check out the video.

The paintball does not give any more at 0 fps than it does at 300 fps. Elasticity values are the same at any speed.

Nor does it spin to a signifcant degree to cause aerodynamic effects providing that your paint and barel are matched and clean.

Im not really refuting the fact that they do give, im just saying that it dosent warp enough to create a diffrence. Nowhere near the waterbaloon effect.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16106&highlight=powder+barrel

Comments on the test by Tom K. (AGD) himself.

[Havoc_online]

butter,

I completely understand your and everyone else's point and respect it, I to am not trying to start any fights or prove anyone wrong, sorry if I came off as rude or anything. However I hope you do believe that I did do my own test, I don't know how or why but I did get dents and warped rounds out of my barrel shooting them at a cushion, maybe it was cheap paint but I think it could be done in some scenarios.

[Butterfingers]

Don't worry about it. I reread my post i didnt mean to come off that strong. :) I apologize if I did. Ill im trying to do is to spark up some lively conversation.

Trying to toss ideas around so everybody gets to sample a piece of idea pie.

I belive you did the tests and I think your statement was very knowledgable. I just offered an alternate explaination.

[Army]

Balls have at least 4", and usually more, in which to accelerate to speed. But normally zero to less than an inch to stop. The deceleration forces are much greater than the acceleration forces.

Yes, you can easily dent a ball with your fingernail, total force applied is to a tiny area. A ball is shot by air, which fully supports one half of the ball, spreading the force over a greater area AND moving away from that force against it.

That is why you find dents in the ball after you shoot your Moms couch, it is not fully supported by the seperate weaves in the fabric, (...and why you find dents in your butt when she catches you doing it!):cool:

[Havoc_online]

Thanks for the input army, but what if I was'nt shooting my mom's couch, what if I was shooting at a 12' raft(air float) from a distance that the paintball has already begun to decelerate and hits softly and lands softly, on her cushion, lol j/k.

[jbgoneover]

If the shape of the ball is never bent, then the ball would never break. Fps is not an accurate measure of force applied to the ball in a given area of the ball.

So explain again how the ball is not bent and what the significance of 0-300fps. I think the trajectory of the ball can be changed by the shape of the ball because of pressure zone around the ball, such as back spin causes lower pressure on top of ball, but I would think that the shape of the ball has returned to normal by the time the ball has fully accelerated and left the barrel. I would argue that a cocker does have a flatter trajectory and an automag has more arched trajectory also. I own both. I also think that while trajectory is mathmatically defined, I doubt that the total distance was measured from the shots, being they collided with some dudes moms soft cushions and I would suggest shooting your mom in her cushions or something. This could lead to extensive bruising.

[Havoc_online]

ok that was just weird

[TheSneakyPengui]

I know! <--- Such a post whore, trying to top 100 before the night is done.

[Army]

jbgoneover; Regardless of what you percieve from your guns, the same FPS will result in identical flight paths, even with all the variables tossed in the mix.

AGD has done high speed filming of Pballs before, during, and after being fired. None showed any inclination to deform what-so-ever, at any time. The comparatively long moment of acceleration is quite easy on the ball, but the sudden stop causes the shell to rupture, usually at the seam, and continues to shatter further as the paint applies hydraulic pressures to the remainder of the shell.

[jbgoneover]

So then the flatline barrel is a scam and physically impossible?

jeff

[Butterfingers]

No, the flatline works on a principle called the magnus effect (backspin) which must be delibrately induced. Thus the extreme curvature of the barrel.

No, diffrent guns do not produce backspin. Trajectories are identical through straightbore barrels on any gun, where backspin is not induced.

[soilent green]

it all depends on velocity I once thought other wise but butterfingers along with others changed my mind I tested it I chronoed my bros cocker and my mag to the same velocity and video taped then slowed it down on the computer they are almost Identicle and think about it it is just basic physics

[hoppr]

i just want to thank everyone for the input on this thread. i didn't really expect this kind of debate but it has educated me on more than a few points. just to let you know i told my co-worker about this and he was so interested, he read the whole thing and he doesn't even play paintball. thanks again.