Do You Cheat?

[El Zilcho]

So I recently bought an Emag with AGD 1.37 and I don't have the jumper so it is semi only for me. It got me thinking about Xmod 1.8, but being a woodsball player I have no reason (within the rules) to have any other mode besides semi. That led to the question: How many people play in non-semi mode for woodsball? Just curious.

[cockerpunk]

whether you are cheating or not using different modes is up the field.

that being said, no i don't use anything other then semi in the woods, i also almost never break 10 bps in the woods.

[El Zilcho]

I assumed most fields don't allowing ramping the woods.

[KurtPB]

I must say I've never used batteries in the woods. Have always rocked a Sniper or 'Mag.

[GoatBoy]

Pump counts as non-semi, right?

Man, I'm such a cheater...

[OPBN]

I have played at several fields that basically said "run whatya brung". I do follow field rules about BPS if they have them though. I did realize a couple of years ago at LL3 I think it was that I was running my Emag on Hyper mode by mistake. Forgot my glasses in the car and set the mode by memory. Got to a point that I was unleashing on some guys in the pipe field and realized I had drained a hopper in like 10 seconds or so. Oops.

[bbotts77]

I always stick to field rules. It just works out better for everyone that way.

I almost always use a mag, but when I don't I almost never ramp with my electros. I like to make my shots count, so I don't waste so much paint.

[wimag]

Tippmann World Challenge at Hells Survivors you can shoot whatever mode you want. Woods fields. Not considered "cheating" if it is in the rules :rolleyes:

[blackdeath1k]

Why would I want to use any mode above semi? I don't like wasting paint. So I don't want a ball to go flying unless I hit the trigger for that ball. But as stated. Some fields are run what cha brung.

Can you guys help a new old player out? What is ramping
G? All a search did was come up with a bunch of posts that had that word in it.

[SoulCoffin]

Can you guys help a new old player out? What is ramping
G? All a search did was come up with a bunch of posts that had that word in it.

ramping is a firing mode that is now pretty standard in all electros. what it does is after three shots, as long as as you keep at least a 3 ball per sec trigger pull rate, the actual firing rate will "ramp up" to 10 bps (or whatever the rate is capped at on your gun). so physically, your pulling at a rate of 3 bps, but the gun shoots at a much higher rate.

[cockerpunk]

I assumed most fields don't allowing ramping the woods.

every local field around here allows any mode up to 12 bps.

[sQuidvision]

every local field around here allows any mode up to 12 bps.

do you consider splat tag to be "around here"? i was just out there Sunday and they were enforcing semi only.

[El Zilcho]

every local field around here allows any mode up to 12 bps.

That is genuinely surprising to me, I would think that would be off-putting to renters.

[Frizzle Fry]

Can you guys help a new old player out? What is ramping
G? All a search did was come up with a bunch of posts that had that word in it.

Been around for about 12-15 years.

Basically, when you achieve a certain number of shots in a certain time period, the board adds shots.

The most common style now is such that if you manage X trigger pulls at Y pulls per second for Z seconds, your marker will fire full auto at A bps even as long as you maintain Y trigger pulls per second and don't stop shooting for over B seconds. I call this "shifting" because it doesn't really require you to "ramp up".

Earlier styles of ramping were more simple and fit the title better. If you manage 5 pulls per second, it adds one shot per second so you're firing 6bps. Make it to 7 pulls per second, it adds 2 shots per second for 9bps, etc until you hit 12.5 or 15 bps. The intervals varied by manufacturer initially, until the various leagues accepted it. Much more deserving of the title as you actually "ramp up" to the highest speed.

I'm not up on the newest versions of these modes, but as I recall...

PSP - 3 shots @ 5 pps = 12.5 bps auto + 3 added shots @ final pull / must maintain 5 pps, 1 second break

NXL - 3 shots @ 5 pps = 15 bps auto / trigger must be held down, no break

Millennium - 7 shots @ 7 pps = 15 bps auto / must maintain 7.5 pps, 0.5 second break

[bbotts77]

That is genuinely surprising to me, I would think that would be off-putting to renters.
I used to be surprised when the local fields started to allow ramping in their recball groups, because it would ruin the entire day of a renter every couple times I was out there. Then I realized that those renters weren't going through as much paint as the speedballers or the brats, whose mommy and daddy pay for as much paint as they can throw. So, the all-mighty dollar (and whining) would win that argument every time.

One of the things I love about CPX is that when there are enough players, they will run an open-beginner group for markers without batteries and an open-advanced group. This is a great way to wet the feet of the young players, who aren't quite ready to be stitched up by 12.5 bps.

[OPBN]

That is genuinely surprising to me, I would think that would be off-putting to renters.

They usually seperate rentals from regulars at most of the rec fields I've been to. Never been to a field with a limit less than 12-15 bps. Ever.

[El Zilcho]

They usually seperate rentals from regulars at most of the rec fields I've been to. Never been to a field with a limit less than 12-15 bps. Ever.

They try to separate groups where I play but it almost never works out that way.

[cougar20th]

I very very rarely use anything that has ramping software. That doesnt mean its not on the gun.

Most fields Ive gone to do not allow ramping. Unless its a private game. (OSG & AG do not allow ramping last time I checked.)

Now if the other team is using ramping when its not allowed and the refs do nothing after talking to them you bet your ass Im changing guns to something that evens out the game.

[Hook]

At my local field they enforce the "semi only" rule on weekends due to the large amount of rentals and walk-ons. We do however have members nights on Wednesdays and anything goes.

[Justus]

My field has an "anything goes" atmosphere, with a strong emphasis of no overshooting. If you can control your trigger, you're fine to use whatever.

That said, I use semi capped at 11 or 12 bps about 90% of the time. The other 10% I'll use full auto - for those situations where you need to just fire for effect, like letting it rip when attacking a fort that's made of tin barn siding. (That can get loud in a hurry!) I use full auto in those situations over ramping because find that a full auto trigger is much easier to keep control of. You don't have those extra shots fired after you release the trigger like in ramping modes. I personally can't stand using a ramping mode. I have no problem if anyone else uses it though, so long as they don't overshoot people.

[cockerpunk]

do you consider splat tag to be "around here"? i was just out there Sunday and they were enforcing semi only.

oh yeah, i have not been to splatag for a while, and esp not open play. they allow any mode at there big games and rumbles IIRC, and then obviously pump day is well pump day hahaha

[cockerpunk]

That is genuinely surprising to me, I would think that would be off-putting to renters.

considering with "legal" semi auto, its pretty easy to shoot faster then with a 12 bps capped ramping, it actually lowers gun speeds.

[blackdeath1k]

ramping is a firing mode that is now pretty standard in all electros. what it does is after three shots, as long as as you keep at least a 3 ball per sec trigger pull rate, the actual firing rate will "ramp up" to 10 bps (or whatever the rate is capped at on your gun). so physically, your pulling at a rate of 3 bps, but the gun shoots at a much higher rate.

Well now I understand how the 14 year olds with impys back in 02 could hose like they did. I just figured it was the mouse click trigger. So not only can you set a trigger up to the point you could shake the gun and it fire. But you can set it up to fire more shots than what you pull the trigger. Nice! I knew of 3 round burst, full auto, semi, ect. But no. Don't remember that term ever being used back then locally.

Oh well. That's just when you have to use the RT bounce to your advantage.

[Freedy500]

Only time I ever go above 10-15 BPS is when I catch somebody wipe a clear hit. I get tired of speedballers wiping every time they get hit. I show no regret with RT'ing to the full effect, I intend for every shot to hit the person I am aiming at when that happens. I overshoot the crap out of wipers. But besides that no, I never go above any basic BPS rules in a game.

[blackdeath1k]

Only time I ever go above 10-15 BPS is when I catch somebody wipe a clear hit. I get tired of speedballers wiping every time they get hit. I show no regret with RT'ing to the full effect, I intend for every shot to hit the person I am aiming at when that happens. I overshoot the crap out of wipers. But besides that no, I never go above any basic BPS rules in a game.

When I read the title of this post I thought that was the kind of cheaters it was about. I'm right with you. If I blatantly see people doing that I make every point to light them a new one.

[cockerpunk]

Well now I understand how the 14 year olds with impys back in 02 could hose like they did. I just figured it was the mouse click trigger. So not only can you set a trigger up to the point you could shake the gun and it fire. But you can set it up to fire more shots than what you pull the trigger. Nice! I knew of 3 round burst, full auto, semi, ect. But no. Don't remember that term ever being used back then locally.

Oh well. That's just when you have to use the RT bounce to your advantage.

that was mostly trigger bounce back then. either electrical or mechanical noised triggering events.

[skipdogg]

At living Legends, if i run out of paint but still have air, I switch to 15bps full auto mode and dry fire the heck out of the other team. It usually sends them scrambling for cover like little girls. Funny to watch. Even guys on my own team near me look over at me like wtf is that guy doing. Not sure if anyone notices the empty 400 round clear pinokio hopper on top of the gun...

[Freedy500]

At living Legends, if i run out of paint but still have air, I switch to 15bps full auto mode and dry fire the heck out of the other team. It usually sends them scrambling for cover like little girls. Funny to watch. Even guys on my own team near me look over at me like wtf is that guy doing. Not sure if anyone notices the empty 400 round clear pinokio hopper on top of the gun...

Funny story for me. I have a barrel with just about no porting for my automag and I have around a 1100-1300 psi input for some crazy RT'ing. Well once I ran out of paint (hard to do when carrying a case everywhere) but nobody could ever tell because of my camo Qpods. Well a dry firing RT'ing automag with no barrel porting sounds like a freaking beast. I just about saved my whole team/squadron because of it. I went lone wolf in a scenario game. and ended up capturing the largest fort and most important place in a huge field with 1300+ people there. The fort was under-fortified and had only about 10 people in it. So I see an advantage with having no profile and hopper/pod sound so I sprint over and light them all up at a crazy BPS. I get most out and the rest were under 16 years old and were scared ****less with what was going on since I went as fast as I could go with the RT effect. Oh the looks on their faces when they say only one person could be slinging all that paint and making all that noise. They were under the impression I had at least 13 other people with me. So I am just holding down the fort (literally) until a whole entire enemy insertion of around 100 people were placed there. So I had a 90/45 and waited bunker hill style and lit a good 17 or so people up and scared plenty of their teammates. So I ended up holding a fort single handidly after running out of paint by simply dry RT'ing and causing drama. Was really funny until they got a suicide charge and around 30 of them stormed the fort expecting to get wiped out but found only me dry firing like a mad man to scare them, one of the best days of my life seeing their reactions to only me holding down the most important point of this game with 1300+ people in it all by myself with no paint. I felt like a legend after that. I also had to have several refs watch me the whole time and make sure I was not cheating somehow.

Long story short, I got more people out from dry firing than I did with paint and was the largest contributor to the game when it came to getting individual points.

[athomas]

that was mostly trigger bounce back then. either electrical or mechanical noised triggering events.Yeah, it was around 2003 that ramping started and it was hitting the local tournament circuits around 2004. Even then, they really didn't have a capped rate of fire at that time.

We used to have a local team that were using Impulses that had All American upgrades, a couple with the latest full ramping that were actually All A guns that were being used that year, 2004. The main sponsor of the team used to get a kick out of how fast they could empty a hopper and control the game given that there was no rate of fire limit. I had my Angel upgraded to ramping in the spring of 2005. They didn't know until our team played them in the first tourny of the year. Once our guns could match and actually beat theirs, the refs came over to our team to tell us we needed to turn down the rate of fire. I laughed and turned down the rate of fire on our guns. It wasn't quite so fun for them any more. :D I always preferred my emag for any tourny that didn't have ramping, but I evened the score for our team by using my Angel in those that did allow ramping.

I always use real semi when playing in the woods or with newer players. I love my retro mag for that.

[sjrtk]

Do i cheat?

Simple answer no.

More complex answer, yes.

When i am at the local field i play semi only capped at 10. Until some ones comes on the field with Mom and Dad's money and what ever electro they are using. Their guns ramp so they feel they must use it and shoot all the kids that aren't as good as them (gear wise that is). So i hear who they are from the refs and find them on the field, just them, and return the favor of dramatic over shooting when i change the Emag to hyper mode uncapped. Once the lesson is learned or they leave i stop and continue on semi only. Not always kids sometimes is is just people who can't play with everyone else and enjoy it, troublemakers.

[StygShore]

The field I work/play at has a general rule of semi only. In recen years with the number of modes out there, they have loosened that rule for private parties, and they can use whatever firing mode they would like as a private group.

I have had guns for years that I could easily switch to ramping or full auto, but I have never found the need. In a lot of cases, we have players show up with barrowed equipment and they have no idea how to control firing modes. I have been on the receiving end of so many excessive strings of paint from Ions and E-Tippmanns it's rediculous. Generally full auto and ramping lead to total lack of fire control in new players I have noticed.

I had a guy put a dozen rounds into my ribs last year from about 20' away with an Angel he had no idea how to use. Prior to that playing an event that did allow full auto - I got to receive about 15 rounds to my right shoulder from a E-Tippmann from about 12' away.


Styg

[Cokrkilr]

I dont know if anyone here has played in Utah or has heard of "Pegleg Paintball" from back in the day? Used to be a large operation here, 3 locations, one of which was on a huge land space that is now homes. Anywho, this is a cheaters get dealt with type scenario... no matter who you are.... dun dun dun....

We had a rinky dink team back in the day, when Angels, Bushmasters and Bob Long Intimidators were the latest and greatest. Just 7-8 friends, and a few randoms that just wanted to play. We'd hit local tourneys and did ok, usually ended up top 5 out of 20-30 teams depending on the event.

Well one afternoon we get invited to go practice with "The Turtles", Peglegs semi pro team that went nowhere... and of course their fearless leader, Dale. The owner. We get to playing and we just dominated all day. It was the ON day for us, nothing could go wrong. About half way through the practice the trash talking started from the other team, the owner is furious... throwing masks and gear, yelling at his guys for not going here or there (he was a back player/captain because he had a peg leg, literally) It was fun to say the least.

A couple games later we start seeing the wipes... we shoot more, they wipe more. This continues into a few more games that we lose, now we are upset.

"Final game of the day" (could have played longer, but what transpired dictated it being the last game)
We get an early lead, take out a few guys in lanes etc. My buddy Mike bunkered two people @ the 50, I join him. Last guy left is the owner in the back stand up. his fat butt was just sticking out for the taking, I shoot 3, land 2. I yell, "your out!" Then the wipe came. He continues dumping pod after pod trying to hit us as we make our way back to him from two angles. Hit him again, yell "out"... he stays in.... Finally my buddy and I just charge him, each of us dumped about 10-15 on him from two sides. Game over? No. He then refilled his hopper screaming god knows what, lights up my buddy from head to toe, throws his gun across the field and gets his "team" to escort us out of the field we were playing at. Oh, and we were banned from any of his locations...

Needless to say, if you cheat, your gonna get it. Whether your a pro or the field owner... I aint scared ;)

[brokeass_baller]

I hate ramping! I don't really care if others use it, so long as they don't overshoot. But I personally cannot stand it. I feel like I'm not in control of the gun. I hate those extra few balls that leave the barrel when i stop pulling the trigger.

I almost always play mech. If I use an electro, it's semi-only. When i did tournaments, i would use PSP 3 Shot. I have more control over that. But it still wasn't my favorite.

[T-Bird]

Do i cheat?

Simple answer no.

More complex answer, yes.

When i am at the local field i play semi only capped at 10. Until some ones comes on the field with Mom and Dad's money and what ever electro they are using. Their guns ramp so they feel they must use it and shoot all the kids that aren't as good as them (gear wise that is). So i hear who they are from the refs and find them on the field, just them, and return the favor of dramatic over shooting when i change the Emag to hyper mode uncapped. Once the lesson is learned or they leave i stop and continue on semi only. Not always kids sometimes is is just people who can't play with everyone else and enjoy it, troublemakers.

I feel the same way. Its kinda hard to get new people into the sport if they have a the bad taste of paint in their mouth from being massively bonusballed. I always suggest a game of "IRON MAN" to kids who like to shoot strings when im on an all noob recball field. The rules are simple: hits dont count. You walk out if you are too bruised to continue. I dont know why they never suggest a 2nd round. :rofl:

[Beemer]

considering with "legal" semi auto, its pretty easy to shoot faster then with a 12 bps capped ramping, it actually lowers gun speeds.

For who? You? You got any data to back that up?

On a Legal Semi no bounce, one shot one pull I would bet it aint easy for MOST to pull over 12BPS.
No data, just my opinion.

[Freedy500]

I dont know if anyone here has played in Utah or has heard of "Pegleg Paintball" from back in the day? Used to be a large operation here, 3 locations, one of which was on a huge land space that is now homes. Anywho, this is a cheaters get dealt with type scenario... no matter who you are.... dun dun dun....

We had a rinky dink team back in the day, when Angels, Bushmasters and Bob Long Intimidators were the latest and greatest. Just 7-8 friends, and a few randoms that just wanted to play. We'd hit local tourneys and did ok, usually ended up top 5 out of 20-30 teams depending on the event.

Well one afternoon we get invited to go practice with "The Turtles", Peglegs semi pro team that went nowhere... and of course their fearless leader, Dale. The owner. We get to playing and we just dominated all day. It was the ON day for us, nothing could go wrong. About half way through the practice the trash talking started from the other team, the owner is furious... throwing masks and gear, yelling at his guys for not going here or there (he was a back player/captain because he had a peg leg, literally) It was fun to say the least.

A couple games later we start seeing the wipes... we shoot more, they wipe more. This continues into a few more games that we lose, now we are upset.

"Final game of the day" (could have played longer, but what transpired dictated it being the last game)
We get an early lead, take out a few guys in lanes etc. My buddy Mike bunkered two people @ the 50, I join him. Last guy left is the owner in the back stand up. his fat butt was just sticking out for the taking, I shoot 3, land 2. I yell, "your out!" Then the wipe came. He continues dumping pod after pod trying to hit us as we make our way back to him from two angles. Hit him again, yell "out"... he stays in.... Finally my buddy and I just charge him, each of us dumped about 10-15 on him from two sides. Game over? No. He then refilled his hopper screaming god knows what, lights up my buddy from head to toe, throws his gun across the field and gets his "team" to escort us out of the field we were playing at. Oh, and we were banned from any of his locations...

Needless to say, if you cheat, your gonna get it. Whether your a pro or the field owner... I aint scared ;)

Wow, I had the exact same thing happen to me. Only change was the owner did not have a peg for a leg and used an impulse. But when this happened I had my output cranked upwards to around an extra 100psi than normal so I had 1300 psi in the valve. So after a match like this that did not get us kicked off I caught the owner wipe a shot about 7-8 times in a row and I was using a friends go pro and had proof of it. So once he continued after I brought up the issue and video I told my friends we were about to get off the field and they were okay with it, so I sneak up behind the guy and I had a 100% view of him with no cover. I saw him wipe once and I was around 10ft away and I unloaded my whole entire Qpod on him in a matter of seconds (around 4-5) I got just about all 100 shots spot on him. Yup we got kicked off.

This was also after he started talking trash about old classics like autococker, automags etc.. He said that everything AGD,WDP, and WGP ever made were expensive pieces of junk that never worked. Was happy to shut up his SP crap with my favorite mag'.

[Freedy500]

For who? You? You got any data to back that up?

On a Legal Semi no bounce, one shot one pull I would bet it aint easy for MOST to pull over 12BPS.
No data, just my opinion.

And I can back this up, I have an Invert mini in case of future mag conversion projects or if I ever want to remember what a stereotypical electro is like. I have no bounce and a perfect trigger adjustment on semi and I can go well over 12 BPS. Not saying I can sustain it for long though;)

[blackdeath1k]

For who? You? You got any data to back that up?

On a Legal Semi no bounce, one shot one pull I would bet it aint easy for MOST to pull over 12BPS.
No data, just my opinion.

So are RTs not legal for competition?

[Drix]

I used to be a die hard anti anything that wasn't just skill to boost your game. Now that I'm 30, fat, arthritic, and slightly lazy I use ramping. I figure In my prime I was pulling 14bps, Its acceptable for me to set the gun to 12 and just enjoy my day. With that being said I never wipe, or bs any other courtesy rule, and I only play on fields that allow you to use electronics with bonus ball rules. (IE- Shoot full auto if you want, 3+ breaks on a person means you're sitting out)

[athomas]

So are RTs not legal for competition?Not if they shoot more than 1 ball per pull. If the ref can slowly pull the trigger and have more than one shot come out due to bounce, then the gun is considered illegal for competition in a semi only competition.



Shoot full auto if you want, 3+ breaks on a person means you're sitting outI like this rule.

[blackdeath1k]

Shoot full auto if you want, 3+ breaks on a person means you're sitting out)

Our field did it that way. But it was more based on doing it repeatedly. Hit and miss was considered an accident. But if you are known for it then you better be careful.

[AGDRetro]

I do find it hilarious that the same Automag gang that is so anti-ramping because it "limits your control", have ZERO problem with the talentless hacks dumping 1100 psi into their RTs and watching the trigger bounce off their finger. At least the guys that are ramping must continue to pull their trigger and the rate of fire actually IS controllable. If you are doing gun "homework" on Youtube, a video showcasing a marker shooting in modes other than Semi Auto proves nothing about the gun or the man behind the trigger.

The Mag is a fantastic gun and it is still competitive in today's paintball world. A ULT'd X-valve with 750-850 psi has a walkable trigger, that IS controllable. Use it instead of shooting an uncontrolled burst of RT at the ramping guys you so loath.

[Patron God of Pirates]

I try my level best not to. It can be very tempting when you are witness to other people getting away with it but I don't like making a hypocrite out of myself so I just grin and bear it. I'll go ahead and confess my transgressions:

-Dive wiping. For a VERY short period I played for a field sponsored team. The owner/captain insisted that if we front men were hit on the break we slide to let the ground wipe the hit. He was a real piece of work. I towed the line for one tournament. Afterwords a member of another team laid into me for doing that. I had nothing to say for myself. I quit the team and that was my first and last experience playing "pro" speedball. Still embarrassed about it now.

-Mobile Bunker. I slid into a fort and accidentally dislodged the door. It had a little slit in the front to peek/shoot through so I picked it up and used it like a riot shield. It was hilarious. Afterwords the refs determined that it shouldn't have been allowed but it had never happened before.

-Shooting from the deadbox. Wait, this is not as bad as it sounds. I was shot out very early in woods game. There was no netting between the deadbox and the field, just a tape line. My friend and I watched two kids take turns advancing by calling themselves hit, moving up, then "double checking" and getting back in the game. There were only two refs and they couldn't possibly watch the whole area. So I told one. He talked to the kids, but didn't pull them. They proceeded to do it again, right in front of me. I got into a shouting match with one of them who kept telling me "dead men don't talk". So I gogged him and said "shut up then". We both got sat for the next game.

-Telaporting.

[blackdeath1k]

I do find it hilarious that the same Automag gang that is so anti-ramping because it "limits your control", have ZERO problem with the talentless hacks dumping 1100 psi into their RTs and watching the trigger bounce off their finger. At least the guys that are ramping must continue to pull their trigger and the rate of fire actually IS controllable. If you are doing gun "homework" on Youtube, a video showcasing a marker shooting in modes other than Semi Auto proves nothing about the gun or the man behind the trigger.

The Mag is a fantastic gun and it is still competitive in today's paintball world. A ULT'd X-valve with 750-850 psi has a walkable trigger, that IS controllable. Use it instead of shooting an uncontrolled burst of RT at the ramping guys you so loath.

I have my classic rt set with just under 1000 input. Same as always. I've also used a view loader revolution for the last decade and a half. Well a vl shreader before that. But the point I am making is. My gun even with the bounce turns to a blender if you try to shoot more than 3 balls at a time because they can't feed that fast. So you have to have a good trigger finger to not blend paint. I generally do single fast shooting shots. But if I use the rt effect its 3 round burst at max. But I do totally get what you are saying. I still go back to wanting controll of how much paint I shoot. And to me. Even with the rt effect. It is the person making it bounce. It doesn't totally shoot on its own.

[Freedy500]

I do find it hilarious that the same Automag gang that is so anti-ramping because it "limits your control", have ZERO problem with the talentless hacks dumping 1100 psi into their RTs and watching the trigger bounce off their finger. At least the guys that are ramping must continue to pull their trigger and the rate of fire actually IS controllable. If you are doing gun "homework" on Youtube, a video showcasing a marker shooting in modes other than Semi Auto proves nothing about the gun or the man behind the trigger.

The Mag is a fantastic gun and it is still competitive in today's paintball world. A ULT'd X-valve with 750-850 psi has a walkable trigger, that IS controllable. Use it instead of shooting an uncontrolled burst of RT at the ramping guys you so loath.

I am not sure whether this is just me or what but I have over 1100 psi and I have perfect control over the bounce. Keep in mind that it is harder to maintain a long string with bounce while people who use ramp can have a string of the same high BPS go on for days with no problem.

[MAGgot]

That is genuinely surprising to me, I would think that would be off-putting to renters.

Exactly, hence the struggling state of paintball.

[Dono1]

Exactly, hence the struggling state of paintball.

Absolutely I lost a buddy because someone put a string in his back game 1. Sat in the car the rest of the day and never played again.

[brokeass_baller]

For who? You? You got any data to back that up?

On a Legal Semi no bounce, one shot one pull I would bet it aint easy for MOST to pull over 12BPS.
No data, just my opinion.

I've seen a few kids walk the trigger with three fingers. It was DEFINITELY faster than 15/sec. So i can see how in some instances a capped ramping mode could regulate down the ROF. But in most cases, especially rec, nobody really shoots that fast.