Aluminum Classic Valve

[Carnage reigns]

Why hasn't AGD thought about making some of these? I think they would sell for anyone trying to use a mag in competitive play. It could come with a level 10 and not have the RT effect. And being made of aluminum would save on weight. Is there a downside I'm missing?

[captian pinky]

There are ways to make the x valves not rt. I think most people would rather buy the xvalve and do this than buy an aluminum classic valve and not have the option to rt.

[Carnage reigns]

I think tournaments would be more comfortable knowing that the valve doesn't even have the ability to do it.

[athomas]

If you want the retro valve to not RT, use a ULT properly. The other option is to use a classic on-off assembly. Then you will have the same stiff trigger pull so that the differential force will be much less, especially when using a level 10 setup.

[Carnage reigns]

If you want the retro valve to not RT, use a ULT properly. The other option is to use a classic on-off assembly. Then you will have the same stiff trigger pull so that the differential force will be much less, especially when using a level 10 setup.

OK let me explain the problem. I have been told that in the UWL you can not use, X-valves, RT Valve or any of the like except classic valves. I believe this is the rule for all competitive play. Classic valves are heavier therefore backloading a ULE marker. This is the reason I believe there would be a market for an aluminum Classic valve.

[oldironmudder]

Classic valves are heavier therefore backloading a ULE marker.

Do you have girly tooth pick arms? My classic mag with Intelliframe & stainless Lapco isnt heavy at all. Thats with co2 or air. Back in the day my Spyder cleared 15 pounds without paint or co2, a mag isnt ****. I suggest working out some to beef up your arms.

[oldironmudder]

Forgot this, the subject of an aluminum classic valve, I would be down to buy one if I could get an X valve & the classic color matched to the rest of the gun.

[Cokrkilr]

Here's my thought,

Regular stainless classic valve, ule body w/front chopped, factory rail ule milled by Luke, ule'd frame of choice with a pneu setup. For counter balance to the "crazy heavy" valve run a stainless back barrel... or, on my classic my 14" dye stainless with 68/45 had near perfect balance. It was "heavy" when carrying it to the field in one hand loaded with paint etc... but once you shouldered the marker the balance made it seem weightless.


I don't have ule milling on my classic, but I just suggested it to make up for the full stainless valve... you could also substitute pneu for electro in the frame as well....

[Carnage reigns]

If we turn this into a lifting contest I'm pretty sure I could hold my own. That's not the point. Classic valves are heavy and shiny. I think there would be a market for an aluminum classic valve. It would allow AGD an entrance back into the tourney world, if someone truly desired to do so, and give AGD another product to sell to make money. And the fact that it could be anodized to match would be awesome. And i'm sorry about u having to lug around a 15 lbs marker. Just cuz u did it doesn't mean I should.

[GoatBoy]

I'd love an aluminum classic valve, but AGD isn't going to be making squat. "There is no money in paintball anymore."

Until then, you get to scavenge parts.

An aluminum AA reg back will bring your classic valve within 1 oz of an X-valve.


Do you have girly tooth pick arms? My classic mag with Intelliframe & stainless Lapco isnt heavy at all. Thats with co2 or air. Back in the day my Spyder cleared 15 pounds without paint or co2, a mag isnt ****. I suggest working out some to beef up your arms.

The weight of components is cumulative -- a little weight here, a little weight there, and suddenly you're carrying an extra pound. Multiply that by constant play over the course of an entire day and yes, your arms will get tired. If you're not tired, it's not a sign of your strength -- it's a sign that you're not playing hard.

[Carnage reigns]

Here's my thought,

Regular stainless classic valve, ule body w/front chopped, factory rail ule milled by Luke, ule'd frame of choice with a pneu setup. For counter balance to the "crazy heavy" valve run a stainless back barrel... or, on my classic my 14" dye stainless with 68/45 had near perfect balance. It was "heavy" when carrying it to the field in one hand loaded with paint etc... but once you shouldered the marker the balance made it seem weightless.


I don't have ule milling on my classic, but I just suggested it to make up for the full stainless valve... you could also substitute pneu for electro in the frame as well....

Not a fan of AM/MM length markers.

[Cokrkilr]

If I recall agd made two different length "factory" rail systems and Luke ules both :) I didn't specify which or any lrngth

sorry its early and that was heavy sarcasm :) :)

I actually do prefer my emag rail I picked up over my standard benchy, now that I modified it to use am/mm grips and asa's so I do agree there, still, once ule'd I think either rail would be so.close in weight only a scale could tell

[Carnage reigns]

If I recall agd made two different length "factory" rail systems and Luke ules both :) I didn't specify which or any lrngth

sorry its early and that was heavy sarcasm :) :)

I actually do prefer my emag rail I picked up over my standard benchy, now that I modified it to use am/mm grips and asa's so I do agree there, still, once ule'd I think either rail would be so.close in weight only a scale could tell

I know u could ULE any size rail. A look at any mag I have put together or sold shows I understand that fact. I also am not a fan of older mag or mag parts (please have some mercy on this comment). I like newer parts, e-mag length, ULE mags and I want to be able to play in UWL if I find a team with my mag. Is that so much to want?

[OPBN]

Cap the Classic valve and run an HPR as your foregrip.

I mentioned it a couple of times about getting some classic valves milled, but so far havent found anyone willing to do it. Personally, I just want valve, not the reg made.

[Cokrkilr]

Well.... considering AGD is done making parts id say, yes. It is too much to want. Its like the "new gun from AGD" thread. Pipe dreams...

I just think it would cost as much to produce as the x, but still have the same performance of its stainless counterpart. And I wouldn't pay $200+ for a valve that's the same as a $50 one over 5-6-7oz weight savings when you could just shave it out somewhere else.... but that's just me

[Carnage reigns]

Cap the Classic valve and run an HPR as your foregrip.

I mentioned it a couple of times about getting some classic valves milled, but so far havent found anyone willing to do it. Personally, I just want valve, not the reg made.

I like this idea. Who sells threaded caps?

[Carnage reigns]

Well.... considering AGD is done making parts id say, yes. It is too much to want. Its like the "new gun from AGD" thread. Pipe dreams...

I just think it would cost as much to produce as the x, but still have the same performance of its stainless counterpart. And I wouldn't pay $200+ for a valve that's the same as a $50 one over 5-6-7oz weight savings when you could just shave it out somewhere else.... but that's just me

My thing is will UWL allow it. That's what matters most.

[Carnage reigns]

Here's my thought,

Regular stainless classic valve, ule body w/front chopped, factory rail ule milled by Luke, ule'd frame of choice with a pneu setup. For counter balance to the "crazy heavy" valve run a stainless back barrel... or, on my classic my 14" dye stainless with 68/45 had near perfect balance. It was "heavy" when carrying it to the field in one hand loaded with paint etc... but once you shouldered the marker the balance made it seem weightless.


I don't have ule milling on my classic, but I just suggested it to make up for the full stainless valve... you could also substitute pneu for electro in the frame as well....

If you chop the front that's to get it down to am/mm length correct? That's what I assumed.

[OPBN]

I like this idea. Who sells threaded caps?

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn308/oldpbnoob/Project13003.jpg

I know its AM/MM length, but Luke can mill it from an RTP length rail as well. Weighs in at 2.25lbs without the barrel. It could be lighter if you used CCM fittings, a smaller ASA, CF body mod etc. I could easily see it getting down to 2lbs or under.

Deus Machina on MCB and here I think.. Was the one who made mine. Not 100% sure if he is still doing them or not? Its a pretty easy item to mill, IIRC I had someone else ready to make them, but then he popped back up and had a handful in stock.

[blackdeath1k]

I just think it would cost as much to produce as the x, but still have the same performance of its stainless counterpart. And I wouldn't pay $200+ for a valve that's the same as a $50 one over 5-6-7oz weight savings when you could just shave it out somewhere else.... but that's just me

That is my outlook totally on the classic. Hate to say it. But it is.

I was on the understanding any gun was legal as long as one slow trigger pull = one ball shot. Since this is possible with a ULT. Why would any rt based valve be illegal? Other than the tournament heads not wanting agd in the scene anymore. Heaven forbid an old gun take up marketing space for a brand new electro.

[Xmagterror]

That sounds like a cool project. other have suggested it over the years. i doubt AGD would ever touch this. If i were to take this project on i would just make an aluminum valve housing and have the customer install his own parts from his existing valve. I have the equipment and know how to make these.....the question is will TK let me?

[Cokrkilr]

That is my outlook totally on the classic. Hate to say it. But it is.

I was on the understanding any gun was legal as long as one slow trigger pull = one ball shot. Since this is possible with a ULT. Why would any rt based valve be illegal? Other than the tournament heads not wanting agd in the scene anymore. Heaven forbid an old gun take up marketing space for a brand new electro.


I thought this as well, but hell its been about 10 years since my last tourney... I know rt's were legal back when because one of my friends ran one on our team.

Id rather see the booyah or hyperframe come back in the $150 range than a new valve honestly...

[Carnage reigns]

That is my outlook totally on the classic. Hate to say it. But it is.

I was on the understanding any gun was legal as long as one slow trigger pull = one ball shot. Since this is possible with a ULT. Why would any rt based valve be illegal? Other than the tournament heads not wanting agd in the scene anymore. Heaven forbid an old gun take up marketing space for a brand new electro.

I think it's the possibility that the marker wouldn't be one trigger pull = one ball shot. I wonder if I tourney lock an electric would that be good enough.

[OPBN]

That sounds like a cool project. other have suggested it over the years. i doubt AGD would ever touch this. If i were to take this project on i would just make an aluminum valve housing and have the customer install his own parts from his existing valve. I have the equipment and know how to make these.....the question is will TK let me?

That was my thought. And as mentioned, I only want the valve portion, not the reg. Others may want the reg though. An extra thought would be to mill it so it will accept a ULT. Actually for my use, you don't even need internals excepting the on/off.

[Carnage reigns]

That sounds like a cool project. other have suggested it over the years. i doubt AGD would ever touch this. If i were to take this project on i would just make an aluminum valve housing and have the customer install his own parts from his existing valve. I have the equipment and know how to make these.....the question is will TK let me?

The valve part would be fine. I could use a cp reg with it and I don't have a problem with that. Even better I could find a reg with 45 degree elbow on it (Dye Reg)!!!!!!!

[Xmagterror]

I sent TK an email and he said it would be ok for me to produce up to 50. I would just need to mark them as my own so they are not confused with AGD product. If we were to make just the front half of the valve it would be most cost effective to use the stainless power tube tip from an x valve. making the reg half is probably a waste since several aftermarket companies made them from aluminum and they are cheap.

sounds like a cool project....If enough people are interested i will do a run this year.

[Cokrkilr]

Id buy one of those caps to use on my pistol build, but having to use a hpr as a grip kind of kills that look.

I guess you could use a dual regulated tank... but that would be a little silly just to run one gun

[Cokrkilr]

I sent TK an email and he said it would be ok for me to produce up to 50. I would just need to mark them as my own so they are not confused with AGD product. If we were to make just the front half of the valve it would be most cost effective to use the stainless power tube tip from an x valve. making the reg half is probably a waste since several aftermarket companies made them from aluminum and they are cheap.

sounds like a cool project....If enough people are interested i will do a run this year.

But! Where do all these aluminum regs just pop up at? I've only seen a couple hurricane valves pop up over a few months.

I think it would be dumb to NOT do regs as well, or you've otherwise just built a reverse rtp valve. Using aluminum center and stainless ends. Sounds a little crazy to even waste the time in my personal opinion.

[OPBN]

The valve part would be fine. I could use a cp reg with it and I don't have a problem with that. Even better I could find a reg with 45 degree elbow on it (Dye Reg)!!!!!!!

One thing you hae to watch is to make sure the output on the reg is high enough. You need something where the ouput is at least 6-650psi.

[OPBN]

I sent TK an email and he said it would be ok for me to produce up to 50. I would just need to mark them as my own so they are not confused with AGD product. If we were to make just the front half of the valve it would be most cost effective to use the stainless power tube tip from an x valve. making the reg half is probably a waste since several aftermarket companies made them from aluminum and they are cheap.

sounds like a cool project....If enough people are interested i will do a run this year.

Are the powertubes the same on the Classic? If not, I would say use the Classic powertube vs the X. If we are having to scavenge for powertubes, I would rather scavenge from a $50 Classic than a $200 X or Retro.. Having to use an X powertube would kill it for me unless AGD has spares that they'll sell you.

[harleywrench001]

I sent TK an email and he said it would be ok for me to produce up to 50. I would just need to mark them as my own so they are not confused with AGD product. If we were to make just the front half of the valve it would be most cost effective to use the stainless power tube tip from an x valve. making the reg half is probably a waste since several aftermarket companies made them from aluminum and they are cheap.

sounds like a cool project....If enough people are interested i will do a run this year.

I would take 2 or 3 off your hands depending on price.

[Xmagterror]

Are the powertubes the same on the Classic? If not, I would say use the Classic powertube vs the X. If we are having to scavenge for powertubes, I would rather scavenge from a $50 Classic than a $200 X or Retro.. Having to use an X powertube would kill it for me.

the classic powertube tips are welded on. I sent tuna a PM on the X powertube tips. Might as well use them because they are already made. Sure we could make the regulator ends as well if enough people want them.

for the quantity were talking about these will cost about the same as a new x valve when its all said and done.

[OPBN]

the classic powertube tips are welded on. I sent tuna a PM on the X powertube tips. Might as well use them because they are already made. Sure we could make the regulator ends as well if enough people want them.

for the quantity were talking about these will cost about the same as a new x valve when its all said and done.

I'm out. Deus was offering a cap for XValves at one point Think he made a couple, but not sure how many. I would rather find a cheap used X and cap it before spending $250 on just this. Sorry, I didnt realize it would be that much.

[blackdeath1k]

Haha haha. All the work involved. How would anyone expect this to be under a 200 dollar price tag?

[Cokrkilr]

Like I said earlier in the thread.... id pay $50 for some weight than $200+ on the same classic valve.... you may get 1-2 sold here and there, but your gonna get put 6 feet under with 48 of these in your casket

Pipe dreams.......

[C_losjoker]

The only thing I see with this. Wanting this for competitive play, if you make a classic valve out of aluminum. Everyone is going to have it ano to match, so how are judges/refs going to know its a classic valve not X valve. I am sure some if not.most are not even familiar with a mag so for them to tell the difference by looks is going to be a mess.

[OPBN]

Haha haha. All the work involved. How would anyone expect this to be under a 200 dollar price tag? I honestly have no idea on machine time.I thought when I had asked for a one off once that someone quoted me around $200. I was figuring with a little quantity, maybe $100. At least we know now.

[blackdeath1k]

Like I said earlier in the thread.... id pay $50 for some weight than $200+ on the same classic valve.... you may get 1-2 sold here and there, but your gonna get put 6 feet under with 48 of these in your casket

Pipe dreams.......

Oh I wasn't directing that really at you. You have been saying a classic valve would cost as much to produce from the beginning. I would love to have my classic valve weigh less also. But not enough to pay much for the same thing I already own. Just lighter.

People in general think stuff can be made and sold for nothing. Then throw a fit when they find out the fabricator wants to make a little profit.

[Cokrkilr]

The only thing I see with this. Wanting this for competitive play, if you make a classic valve out of aluminum. Everyone is going to have it ano to match, so how are judges/refs going to know its a classic valve not X valve. I am sure some if not.most are not even familiar with a mag so for them to tell the difference by looks is going to be a mess.

Yeah I see it like this too, and that's IF it ever caught on (it just died this morning, lol)


Id really rather see the mods that used to make a classic rip, get people excited again... instead of of weight savings make up for it with the fact you can make it rip off 15-18-20 bps... someone needs to bring the electronic frame back, with basic boards available for.decent prices, frames to choose from, I don't see it being a problem bringing one back sub $200.


Not a ten year old one going for $300 on eBay because nobody lets them go... or there aren't many left?

[Cokrkilr]

Oh I wasn't directing that really at you. You have been saying a classic valve would cost as much to produce from the beginning. I would love to have my classic valve weigh less also. But not enough to pay much for the same thing I already own. Just lighter.

People in general think stuff can be made and sold for nothing. Then throw a fit when they find out the fabricator wants to make a little profit.

Yeah for sure, I was writing mine when you posted yours so I didn't even see it :) its all good

[OPBN]

Not a ten year old one going for $300 on eBay because nobody lets them go... or there aren't many left?

They're on drugs. Hyperframes used to pop up pretty often for under $150. I would wager its the one that someone thinks is a Devilmag frame and is shooting for the moon.

[OPBN]

You have been saying a classic valve would cost as much to produce from the beginning.
.I was saying this as well, but saying a complete classic valve would cost as much to make in aluminum, not just the valve body with no internals, reg, on/off etc.

I'm not complaining, just to be clear, I honestly didn't think just this one peice would be THAT much to produce. Oh well :(

Thank you XMT for looking into this.

[blackdeath1k]

I was saying this as well, but saying a complete classic valve would cost as much to make in aluminum, not just the valve body with no internals, reg, on/off etc.

I'm not complaining, just to be clear, I honestly didn't think just this one peice would be THAT much to produce. Oh well :(

Thank you XMT for looking into this.

Well he did just give a rough guess also. Once he looks in to it. No telling what numbers he will come up with as a more firm price range for a full valve or just the front portion.

And as stated before. My comment was directed to no one directly.

[Xmagterror]

I dont have an exact price in my head. i would think the front half of the valve could be made and sold at $100 even if atleast 12 people would take one. TK said i could make up to 50 of them.

Jay

[blackdeath1k]

Well he did just give a rough guess also. Once he looks in to it. No telling what numbers he will come up with as a more firm price range for a full valve or just the front portion.

And as stated before. My comment was directed to no one directly.

Just a guess. But I bet the al to do this in will be 30 bux per small chunk on its own. Specialty al is expensive!.

[OPBN]

I dont have an exact price in my head. i would think the front half of the valve could be made and sold at $100 even if atleast 12 people would take one. TK said i could make up to 50 of them.

Jay

I could probably choke that down. Maybe twice. Would depend on the cost of the PT tip.

[Cokrkilr]

I think someone should get a weight of a loaded classic reg back (ready to drop in, seals, spring pack etc all in place) and the front half with no bolt. IMO, just based on feel, without the bolt the back still weighs more than the front. Yes, for the guy with the cap (not everybody can have one or run that setup because those are not available) this mod makes the valve weigh next to nothing... but the guy that wants this that has to use the old reg back and all other parts, this is still $100 or a little more for a couple ounces of weight savings... or, the valve comes complete, now its x valve priced... Id rather not use my mag for a tournament and buy the x valve.

We already spent $250 to get the classic valve a decade ago, why pay that same price for less product... at least Id get a rail body and grip frame back in the day



And I was thinking the 7000 series aluminum was more expensive than that black

[Cokrkilr]

They're on drugs. Hyperframes used to pop up pretty often for under $150. I would wager its the one that someone thinks is a Devilmag frame and is shooting for the moon.

Not to put up an arguement, but my point is... currently that particular frame is the only electro frame for sale for a mag without building one yourself. And I agree, it will be for sale forever at that price. And ive followed a few auctions that went over $225 for both a booyah and a hyper within the last 3 months

[C_losjoker]

I dont have an exact price in my head. i would think the front half of the valve could be made and sold at $100 even if atleast 12 people would take one. TK said i could make up to 50 of them.

Jay

Would that include a cap for the back,in case you wanted to run without the reg half?


Also is a classic valve pneumag automag tournament legal?

[OPBN]

I think someone should get a weight of a loaded classic reg back (ready to drop in, seals, spring pack etc all in place) and the front half with no bolt.

Reg = 6.95 oz
Valve body w/o bolt = 5.8oz
Bolt = 2.2 oz.

X Valve body w/o bolt = approx 3 oz. ( 3.70 w/macro fitting)

[OPBN]

Not to put up an arguement, but my point is... currently that particular frame is the only electro frame for sale for a mag without building one yourself. And I agree, it will be for sale forever at that price. And ive followed a few auctions that went over $225 for both a booyah and a hyper within the last 3 months

There are also VER and E90 frames, but they are in the $400+ range. Anyone that paid $225+ for a Hyper or Booyah , especially a Booyah, frame is doing it wrong. Only way those should be selling for even close to that is if they are the 20bps version of the Hyper, loaded with Lukes extras or they are the Morlock'd versions. I've seen Booyahs seliing for $50 not all that long ago. And they have a reputation for being total crap.

VER: http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?263917-VD-Red-VER-Frame

[Cokrkilr]

Would that include a cap for the back,in case you wanted to run without the reg half?


Also is a classic valve pneumag automag tournament legal?

I think its as long as its one pull one ball its legal. I was going to look up rules but decided my tournament play is over anyhow lol...


One other thing Id like to prepare people for is, if it does come with the cap, now you have to get a GOOD regulator to use, catch 22 here.

Is it worth getting a full aluminum valve for (lets assume) $225, still need power tube, still need springs, reg nut, spring pack etc etc...

OR

Is it worth it to only get a half a valve for $100? If it comes with a cap say? $120?? plus a good regulator, $65-$90, then you still need to buy parts to make the valve half work.

Its the same price either way you look at it.

[Cokrkilr]

Reg = 6.95 oz
Valve body w/o bolt = 5.8oz
Bolt = 2.2 oz.

X Valve body w/o bolt = approx 3 oz. ( 3.70 w/macro fitting)



so this is over +/- 2 oz? seems silly

[Cokrkilr]

There are also VER frames, but they are in the $400+ range. Anyone that paid $225+ for a Hyper or Booyah , especially a Booyah, frame is doing it wrong. Only way those should be selling for even close to that is if they are the 20bps version of the Hyper, loaded with Lukes extras or they are the Morlock'd versions. I've seen Booyahs seliing for $50 not all that long ago. And they have a reputation for being total crap.

I agree with booyah, but with the availability of boards for damn near nothing now days I figured if you got a frame thats at least set up for a mag and you knew the board sucked, you could just wire in a different board to the clapper right?

[OPBN]

Is it worth it to only get a half a valve for $100? If it comes with a cap say? $120?? plus a good regulator, $65-$90, then you still need to buy parts to make the valve half work.

Its the same price either way you look at it. While it may not be worth it for everyone, it would be for some and lets face it, this is a niche product. I have all the extras already to make this work for me. So yeah, its worth it. Just for the ability to be able to anodize it. Besides the powertube, bolt etc, all you would need is an on/off with the external reg. No other internals are needed.

[OPBN]

so this is over +/- 2 oz? seems silly For some, like me it isnt necessarily the weight as much as it is the ability to get it anodized.

[Carnage reigns]

While it may not be worth it for everyone, it would be for some and lets face it, this is a niche product. I have all the extras already to make this work for me. So yeah, its worth it. Just for the ability to be able to anodize it. Besides the powertube, bolt etc, all you would need is an on/off with the external reg. No other internals are needed.

Agreed, considering all the foregrips I like cost about $60 this is well worth it to me. And $120 would be awesome if it had the cap and it was already threaded. I feel you could sell $50 at that price. Add your work on the last two bodies you have done gives people trust in you. I would buy a level 10 plus a reg and be happy.

[Carnage reigns]

so this is over +/- 2 oz? seems silly

I'm gonna say about 7oz when it's all said and done vs. a classic valve. I think this idea is golden.

[OPBN]

Agreed, considering all the foregrips I like cost about $60 this is well worth it to me. And $120 would be awesome if it had the cap and it was already threaded. I feel you could sell $50 at that price. Add your work on the last two bodies you have done gives people trust in you. I would buy a level 10 plus a reg and be happy.

Which has always been my thinking as well.

[Cokrkilr]

I'm gonna say about 7oz when it's all said and done vs. a classic valve. I think this idea is golden.


How did you come up with this #? He made no implications of even making the cap, he said "I will make the valve section and let people finish them off themselves"

That means until it gets clarified, you have to use your reg back... so take 5.8 oz of stainless, and minus 3.7 oz that an xvalve weighs (assuming it weighs the same) thats 2 oz.

I reffered to opbn as being about the only one to see real savings if he used his cap on this... my math is based on the fact XMT has not said he is making caps, at all

[Carnage reigns]

How did you come up with this #? He made no implications of even making the cap, he said "I will make the valve section and let people finish them off themselves"

That means until it gets clarified, you have to use your reg back... so take 5.8 oz of stainless, and minus 3.7 oz that an xvalve weighs (assuming it weighs the same) thats 2 oz.

I reffered to opbn as being about the only one to see real savings if he used his cap on this... my math is based on the fact XMT has not said he is making caps, at all

(The weight of the classic reg + the difference of weights of classic and aluminum valve bodies without bolts) - the weight of a reg that screws into the asa.

[blackdeath1k]

And I was thinking the 7000 series aluminum was more expensive than that black

I was thinking for the 3 inch chunk to do just the front half. And it may be. Never priced solid bar in the stuff. The whole point of that was a blanket. Material is expensive! Let alone the guys development time. And production time. I would venture to say making a mag trigger frame is easier work than the valve. Less spec you have to work with.

[Cokrkilr]

(The weight of the classic reg + the difference of weights of classic and aluminum valve bodies without bolts) - the weight of a reg that screws into the asa.

WHAT? this is valve only.... because you have ZERO confirmation of ANY caps being made... that really made no sense, its only the difference between a loaded valve front and a loaded valve front, which opbn gave values for... wow...

[OPBN]

I'm gonna say about 7oz when it's all said and done vs. a classic valve. I think this idea is golden.

I actually sat and swapped around parts. For MY application, it is only a weight savings of 3 ozs or so. For anyone else wanting to do a similiar capped valve, external reg setup it is a total saving of about 9.1oz. So just over 1/2 a pound*.

*Based on the setup I have pictured earlier -3 ozs vs removing the reg and adding a foregrip and putting a full SS Classic valve on the marker.

[Cokrkilr]

I was thinking for the 3 inch chunk to do just the front half. And it may be. Never priced solid bar in the stuff. The whole point of that was a blanket. Material is expensive! Let alone the guys development time. And production time. I would venture to say making a mag trigger frame is easier work than the valve. Less spec you have to work with.

I did a tiny search, most online suppliers didnt even carry al higher than 6160- t6

[OPBN]

WHAT? this is valve only.... because you have ZERO confirmation of ANY caps being made... that really made no sense, its only the difference between a loaded valve front and a loaded valve front, which opbn gave values for... wow... Caps are very easilly made. I have already contacted DM to see if he is up to making a run. If not, I am willing to send one of my caps to someone to replicate. Or it would be very easy for someone to come up with one.

[Cokrkilr]

Caps are very easilly made. I have already contacted DM to see if he is up to making a run. If not, I am willing to send one of my caps to someone to replicate. Or it would be very easy for someone to come up with one.

Well if you get some made, Ill take a cap :)

Im not trying to be a dick or argue a bunch btw, people are just assuming information without facts from XMT, which is silly

[GoatBoy]

FWIW:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_MwgyHWZRZI/TrOEoowJq7I/AAAAAAAAEy8/l-Y_w9O9NbM/s320/IMGP3296.JPG

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8AQYF3InRVo/TrOEsQI0Q8I/AAAAAAAAEzE/oOyj0HrJOSg/s320/IMGP3295.JPG


If you commission another run of caps, please put a 1/8 NPT hole on the back for a gauge.

[Carnage reigns]

WHAT? this is valve only.... because you have ZERO confirmation of ANY caps being made... that really made no sense, its only the difference between a loaded valve front and a loaded valve front, which opbn gave values for... wow...

Deus Machina made caps so the can be found. And no need for the caps. I read whole sentences.

[OPBN]

Actually, I am wondering if for people wanting to use it in a capped setup if there isn't a cheaper way to machine this without having to make a "cap"? Any input Jay?

[Cokrkilr]

Once again.... I said this when XMT said "they make aluminum regs so I dont need to make them, people can find them all over for cheap". ok, where? how long do I wait for a used one... does that make sense?

You are saying the exact same thing about reg caps... They "were" made, in the past. People now own those caps, and probably use and wont sell them... but they are around, so find me a handful, or 50 to sell with these...

This whole threads been built around assumptions

[OPBN]

If you commission another run of caps, please put a 1/8 NPT hole on the back for a gauge.

You mean like this:

87609:D

[Cokrkilr]

Can the caps be made smooth? Basically like there is no transition from the valve to the cap, I like the gauge look too.

[blackdeath1k]

You mean like this:

87609:D

Now I like that.

[OPBN]

Can the caps be made smooth? Like basically like there is no transition from the valve to the cap, I like the gauge look too.Yes, Check my earlier pic.

[blackdeath1k]

Actually, I am wondering if for people wanting to use it in a capped setup if there isn't a cheaper way to machine this without having to make a "cap"? Any input Jay?

Thinking outside the box! Could do it as a strate through. Dump chamber in the front. Npt in the back. No threads for a reg or anything. Could be short and sweet. There is actually some sculpting he could do also to make them more desire able to the custom guys.

[OPBN]

Now I like that.

Thanks.

87615

[OPBN]

Thinking outside the box! Could do it as a strate through. Dump chamber in the front. Npt in the back. No threads for a reg or anything. Could be short and sweet. There is actually some sculpting he could do also to make them more desire able to the custom guys. Similiar to what I was thinking. Your way sounds easier. I do wonder if getting rid of the area between the valve and the cap would require higher input pressure? Its not a large area, but wonder if it would make a difference?

[Cokrkilr]

Yes, Check my earlier pic.

I did go back to it but couldn't fully tell if it was smooth, the pic was small on my phone... but thanks for clarifying.

And yes, both those builds are sweet with those caps!

[blackdeath1k]

Similiar to what I was thinking. Your way sounds easier.


Only issue with my way is no gauge on the back. I would love to have one with a classic rt banjo bolt fitting for a project I've been thinking about for a one off light stream lined automag. This would save me from putting a classic valve in a mill at work. So I am interested in this project as a hole.

[Carnage reigns]

How would this effect input pressure. Would we still need over 800 psi? And why would we need it? I don't know exactly how everything works I just know that it does. :D

[OPBN]

Only issue with my way is no gauge on the back. I would love to have one with a classic rt banjo bolt fitting for a project I've been thinking about for a one off light stream lined automag. This would save me from putting a classic valve in a mill at work. So I am interested in this project as a hole.

Why no guage on the back? I see people putting guages on there vert ASAs. Isnt this the same concept?

[OPBN]

How would this effect input pressure. Would we still need over 800 psi? And why would we need it? I don't know exactly how everything works I just know that it does. :D
I'm not an airsmith, so I don't really know if it would or not. There is some open area inside the cap. I wasnt sure if this acted like a volume chamber. There is some formula for figuring this out. Either way, it wouldn't think it would require that much higher input. But I really don't know. My thinking that you already have the are between the VASA and valve and since the center air passage is now 1/8" instead of the 1/16 or so that it is now, it would make up for any volume lost. Currently my setup is requiring about 575 psi or so from the inline reg to get FPS in the proper range.

[Cokrkilr]

Still need 600-650 psi to properly work the on off, that's what I was getting at earlier with regs being good or not... most only go to 400-500 psi (CP, dye)

[Carnage reigns]

Still need 600-650 psi to properly work the on off, that's what I was getting at earlier with regs being good or not... most only go to 400-500 psi (CP, dye)

Ok so Palmer's High Pressure, got it.

[OPBN]

Ok so Palmer's High Pressure, got it.

What I have is a older AKA Sidewinder. An AKA 2K+ I beleive will work as well. Has to be the "+". On the pump pictured I am using a Bob Long reg. I think its a Torpedo, but it looks different than the other ones I have seen. But basically, yeah you would need a 650-700psi output regulator.

[Carnage reigns]

What I have is a older AKA Sidewinder. An AKA 2K+ I beleive is the higher pressure as well. Has to be the "+". On the pump pictured I am using a Bob Long reg. I think its a Torpedo, but it looks different than the other ones I have seen. But basically, yeah you would need a 650-700psi output regulator.

Never knew the name of the reg but I always have liked the look of the sidewinder (just googled). That may be the one I pick up.

[blackdeath1k]

Why no guage on the back? I see people putting guages on there vert ASAs. Isnt this the same concept?

Well if it was a strait through design there wouldn't be anywhere for one. But if it still had a side port for the fitting then you could still have the gauge on the back. Or as I would like. A banjo bolt. Convert a newer rt rail to be gas through. And still have a gauge on the back.

[athomas]

The output of any regulator, valve mounted or forgrip, needs to be high enough to charge the front chamber with the pressure you need to operate your particular setup at the desired velocity. If you run a heavily ported barrel with a short control bore and a stiff level 10 bolt setup, that pressure could be fairly high (550psi or more). You would still need 800psi or more feeding the regulator that is feeding the modified regulator-less AGD valve.

The main problem here is that some tournament operators are confusing retro valves with reactive valves. Yes, retro valves can be made to be reactive, but so can almost any other marker on the market. If it wasn't for the general ignorance of the tournament operators, then any retro valve that was set up for normal 1 shot per pull operation could be used at any field at any time. Luckily, it is only a small number of fields that hold this point of view. Unfortunately, you only hear about the few that do which further propagates the negative point of view.

[OPBN]

Well if it was a strait through design there wouldn't be anywhere for one. But if it still had a side port for the fitting then you could still have the gauge on the back. Or as I would like. A banjo bolt. Convert a newer rt rail to be gas through. And still have a gauge on the back.

Oh you are talking about getting rid of the side input? Yeah, no thanks on that. I would still want a side input. I was thinking just boring that through so that it hit the center passage which would now be 1/8" or so and just using a gauge or plug to plug up the back.

[OPBN]

Never knew the name of the reg but I always have liked the look of the sidewinder (just googled). That may be the one I pick up. I don't actually care for the newer one much, but I lucked out and found an older model. The great thing about them is they have a 360* swivel on the input.

[blackdeath1k]

Oh you are talking about getting rid of the side input? Yeah, no thanks on that. I would still want a side input. I was thinking just boring that through so that it hit the center passage which would now be 1/8" or so and just using a gauge or plug to plug up the back.

Oh I would be good with that as well. Only way I will get my first option is if I paid even more for mine to be done that way.. if he would even do it. And depending on when this comes up for money talks work. We will see what my petty cash is then. Right now my pb fund is low. New to me scuba tank came in today.

[OPBN]

Right now my pb fund is low.

Trust me. I know. And beside the possibility of this, I know of at least one more neato thing possibly coming out that I have been dreaming of for some time, so I have to keep that in mind. Might see an "OPBN FIRE SALE" in the months to come.

[Nobody]

I'm not an airsmith, so I don't really know if it would or not. There is some open area inside the cap. I wasnt sure if this acted like a volume chamber. There is some formula for figuring this out. Either way, it wouldn't think it would require that much higher input. But I really don't know. My thinking that you already have the are between the VASA and valve and since the center air passage is now 1/8" instead of the 1/16 or so that it is now, it would make up for any volume lost. Currently my setup is requiring about 575 psi or so from the inline reg to get FPS in the proper range.

remember, the air from the reg goes into the valve chamber and is shut off by the on/off. the air in the cap, as little as it would be, is regulated, but not used to fire.

[OPBN]

So the air in the chamber in front of the on/off is what pushes the paint? So the volume behind the on/off doesn't matter?

[Carnage reigns]

I don't actually care for the newer one much, but I lucked out and found an older model. The great thing about them is they have a 360* swivel on the input.

Do the new one swivel also? What's the difference? I'm excited!!!!!

[OPBN]

Do the new one swivel also? What's the difference? I'm excited!!!!!

Yes.

[Cokrkilr]

So the air in the chamber in front of the on/off is what pushes the paint? So the volume behind the on/off doesn't matter?

That would be correct. When the on off is down, or the gun is cocked, the air is charged in the entire assembly. From the power tube o ring to the cap. The on off gets actuated, cuts the air flow and trips the sear to release the bolt and all the air in the front chamber, then the cycle repeats when the trigger is let off...

This also makes me wonder, although I doubt it because you still have the restrictive on off... would this help the valve recharge any faster than a standard full valve?

[athomas]

This also makes me wonder, although I doubt it because you still have the restrictive on off... would this help the valve recharge any faster than a standard full valve?Theoretically, having more volume on demand for the initial inrush will help, but you would need quite a large reserve volume to make a difference. The on-off is really the biggest restriction in the classic valve design.

The low pressure air has to travel farther to get to the front chamber using the remote regulator in this setup than with the AIR mounted directly on the valve and has more potential for restrictions. Therefore, the final top-up has the potential to take longer if everything isn't working really well.

[Cokrkilr]

Got ya, that's what I figured :)

[OPBN]

As a quick update. I spoke with Deus Machina and he may only have enough material to make 3-4 ofcaps and may not have access to facilities to make any more for the foreseeable future. We may need to discuss whether XMT can make the caps or if we want to see if the idea of an alternate design is feasible.

[Xmagterror]

Making the back caps is not a problem but if i did them i would like to add a burst disc (like the ones used on HPA tanks) to the design for safety.

[OPBN]

Making the back caps is not a problem but if i did them i would like to add a burst disc (like the ones used on HPA tanks) to the design for safety.

What about the design idea mentioned earlier? Seems like most of the people interested are possibly wanting it for an external reg useage. What about something that has just a side input and a 1/8" straight through from the back to the on/off? I know I definitely don't want a burste disc sticking out of the back of mine, but I guess you could thread it for that and we could use at our own risk?

Edit* I aren't burst discs 1/8" NPT? If so, works for me....

[blackdeath1k]

What about the design idea mentioned earlier? Seems like most of the people interested are possibly wanting it for an external reg useage. What about something that has just a side input and a 1/8" straight through from the back to the on/off? I know I definitely don't want a burste disc sticking out of the back of mine, but I guess you could thread it for that and we could use at our own risk?

Edit* I aren't burst discs 1/8" NPT? If so, works for me....

If this is going to be basically just a capped front half I am out. I will use what I have for my project. I will need to buy the cap. But not the front valve half.

If this is a sole operation front half though I am still interested. He can put a co2 bust disk in the back for his liability protection. We can remove it for a gauge or whatever we want to fit our needs. Works for me.

If this

[OPBN]

I don't see a reason it shouldn't be able to be either. All the milling on the front is the same.

[splat15k]

Burst disk on the valve is completely unnecessary.

[Loguzzzzzz]

the classic powertube tips are welded on.
Acttually they are threaded on and welded (as a safety precaution and not all arewelded) to keep them from unscrewing. I have opened many to devolumize for efficiency.

[Cokrkilr]

Id be in for a cap as long as the finish is smooth and not crosshatched, it could be tapped for a gauge or not. Doesn't matter to me :)

[zondo]

OK let me explain the problem. I have been told that in the UWL you can not use, X-valves, RT Valve or any of the like except classic valves. I believe this is the rule for all competitive play. Classic valves are heavier therefore backloading a ULE marker. This is the reason I believe there would be a market for an aluminum Classic valve.

Looking at the rules off their website, it just states that you are limited to 10 bps and no ramping. I don't see anything about valves with the capacity to RT.

I thought I remembered more rules like the type of hoppers you could use and how many electronic markers you could have on one team.

I say, save your money, use your xvalve and don't set it up to RT.

[TimmyJay]

This is my cap'd valve and I think it works great. Deus polished it and tapped the back per my request. I would like to see a valve made with this style cap built in as a solid unit.

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb262/ddntim/DSC_0610.jpg

[Freedy500]

Looking at the rules off their website, it just states that you are limited to 10 bps and no ramping. I don't see anything about valves with the capacity to RT.

I thought I remembered more rules like the type of hoppers you could use and how many electronic markers you could have on one team.

I say, save your money, use your xvalve and don't set it up to RT.

You can't use hoppers like clips and the Qloader. I forgot about BPS. You cannot have the capabilities to go over 15 BPS. It has to be locked at (I think) 12.5 BPS. There is a rule on how much paint you can carry I think. Valves that can RT, when used to RT is referred to them as bounce and they are all strict on no bounce. I am not sure about how many electros you can use though.

[blackdeath1k]

You can't use hoppers like clips and the Qloader. I forgot about BPS. You cannot have the capabilities to go over 15 BPS. It has to be locked at (I think) 12.5 BPS. There is a rule on how much paint you can carry I think. Valves that can RT, when used to RT is referred to them as bounce and they are all strict on no bounce. I am not sure about how many electros you can use though.

That sounds like its worded where the governing body of said tournament can dictate for themselves if they want to allow an rt in the game or not. I hate vague wording.

[zondo]

You can't use hoppers like clips and the Qloader. I forgot about BPS. You cannot have the capabilities to go over 15 BPS. It has to be locked at (I think) 12.5 BPS. There is a rule on how much paint you can carry I think. Valves that can RT, when used to RT is referred to them as bounce and they are all strict on no bounce. I am not sure about how many electros you can use though.

I remember reading that when UWL first came on the scene but I don't see it in the 2013 rules.

Five man:
http://playuwl.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/5-Man-UWL-Rules.pdf

11. Marker
11.01 Will be capped at 10 balls per second with no ramping.
12. Other Equipment
12.01 Players may carry any number of pouches, clips or loaders.
12.02 Open and Tactical teams may use radios. Pro Teams can not
12.03 Players may carry extra constant air tanks.
12.05 Two live players may exchange equipment. A dead player may not exchange/leave equipment 12.06 Vests and pouches may not be constructed in such a fashion that they constitute padding. 12.07 live players may not trade equipment with dead players

It reads the same for the Ten Man as well:
http://playuwl.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/10-Man-UWL-RULES.pdf

But in Ten man it does state that you can have a heavy gunner that can shoot at any rate of fire.

[Cokrkilr]

I would think as long as you could show them the valve does not bounce they'd be OK with it?

Like letting one of the tournament operators test the gun for it?

[OPBN]

I say, save your money, use your xvalve and don't set it up to RT.

Thanks for the input. Some of us want this for other purposes. If you're not interested, cool. No need to spend your efforts trying to kill a project that others may want.

[OPBN]

I would like to see a valve made with this style cap built in as a solid unit.
This is the direction I would like to see this go.

[athomas]

Thanks for the input. Some of us want this for other purposes. If you're not interested, cool. No need to spend your efforts trying to kill a project that others may want.I think his comment was due to the original poster wanting a lighter aluminum cap for his classic valve because he thought he wasn't able to use a retro valve because it was reactive, which was the original topic of the thread. The thread has only morphed into the production of a capped valve.

[OPBN]

I think his comment was due to the original poster wanting a lighter aluminum cap for his classic valve because he thought he wasn't able to use a retro valve because it was reactive, which was the original topic of the thread. The thread has only morphed into the production of a capped valve.

Could very well be, but I know either Zondo, could be Ando as I get their posts mixed up, has made it really clear in the past that they find the capped valve mod unnecessary and have spoken out against it. If that's not the case, no worries. This is something though that I have asked about getting done for a couple of years now and with it seeming like a possibility, not looking for anyone to spend their efforts talking people interested in it out of it.

[blackdeath1k]

Could very well be, but I know either Zondo, could be Ando as I get their posts mixed up, has made it really clear in the past that they find the capped valve mod unnecessary and have spoken out against it. If that's not the case, no worries. This is something though that I have asked about getting done for a couple of years now and with it seeming like a possibility, not looking for anyone to spend their efforts talking people interested in it out of it.

I don't see this really being a seller just for the lightness. But for the few that want it for customs projects or to shed all the weight possible off the gun. It could work out great for them. I'm gonna just sit back and see what he comes up with.

[Cokrkilr]

In my opinion, this thread needs to die and a poll needs to be taken. I really only see one main person, and couple others with their toes in the water on "wanting" this done... that's 3/50, that doesn't pay the bills...

All I want is a cap for $20-$30 or however much they are... if that shaves 7oz of reg off the back and moves the weight forward with a different reg I'm all for it, id rather have a good balance than worry about weight... if the guns harder to manipulate that's when you feel the heft.

I understand, it can be annodized and matched etc, but its still a classic valve half... for an unknown price, just guesstimates.

But back to my original thought, I say a poll be taken, for 100% I would buy this, not, well maybe if it has blah blah... just assume its only the valve front.

And make a second poll on caps as well.

Edit: I'm also going to bet in the end whether the design ends up with a cap or one built it its around $150

[Patron God of Pirates]

This is my cap'd valve and I think it works great. Deus polished it and tapped the back per my request. I would like to see a valve made with this style cap built in as a solid unit.

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb262/ddntim/DSC_0610.jpg

No that is a truly "Micro" Mag. I'm assuming the velocity adjusting is done at the tank reg then? What reg do you have on it? What do you have the output set at?

This has me interested in the capped valve. Not just for looks and size reduction but to simplify. Just one reg. Anyone want to make a "Cap" that acts as an inline ASA? Just screw the tank right into the back of the valve!

[OPBN]

In my opinion, this thread needs to die and a poll needs to be taken. I really only see one main person, and couple others with their toes in the water on "wanting" this done... that's 3/50, that doesn't pay the bills...

XMT said for what we were looking to get done, only 12 or so would need to be built.


I dont have an exact price in my head. i would think the front half of the valve could be made and sold at $100 even if atleast 12 people would take one. TK said i could make up to 50 of them.

Jay

Regarding price. My thought is, if we are subtantially simplifying this by eliminating having to thread the back end and reducing air passages, that pricing should be better. I suck at MS paint or I would diagram this out. But I think where we are at is basically the bolt area being identical to a Classic other than possibly having the PT threading being different. The On/off would be the same, but the input would be drilled farther in so that a central air passageway from the back to the on/off would be drilled.

A further thought came to me though, there could be an optional input cut all the way through, or for that matter reversed. You could essentially have a "t" in the middle that would allow for a range of setups.

[Cokrkilr]

I think you'd have major issues with the tank right off the valve, like bolt stick, not much support after you cut the rail and frame down, possible snapped off field strip screws... it would be cool for that sniper look with a 13ci tank or something, maybe on a pump, I just don't see it being reliable with anything larger.

[Cokrkilr]

XMT said for what we were looking to get done, only 12 or so would need to be built.

Yeah, I read that. That still only leaves about 3 people though, price dependant...

So just to open up another can of worms on this, and potentially open this up to more than just a "classic" valve front. What would it take to make this a universal front? You could have the option to have the classic semi auto fire, or the bounce if you wanted to set it up rt?

Would it still even work as normal rt being capped then externally regulated?

[Cokrkilr]

Basically like a micro x valve, some assembly required :)

[Carnage reigns]

Yeah, I read that. That still only leaves about 3 people though, price dependant...

So just to open up another can of worms on this, and potentially open this up to more than just a "classic" valve front. What would it take to make this a universal front? You could have the option to have the classic semi auto fire, or the bounce if you wanted to set it up rt?

Would it still even work as normal rt being capped then externally regulated?

I think I have seen that the RT only works because of the on board regulator.

[Cokrkilr]

XMT said for what we were looking to get done, only 12 or so would need to be built.



Regarding price. My thought is, if we are subtantially simplifying this by eliminating having to thread the back end and reducing air passages, that pricing should be better. I suck at MS paint or I would diagram this out. But I think where we are at is basically the bolt area being identical to a Classic other than possibly having the PT threading being different. The On/off would be the same, but the input would be drilled farther in so that a central air passageway from the back to the on/off would be drilled.

A further thought came to me though, there could be an optional input cut all the way through, or for that matter reversed. You could essentially have a "t" in the middle that would allow for a range of setups.


I catch what your throwing down :) I have understood all the design changes throughout this thread. And the air port drilled straight thru would be a pretty cool feature, you could do the input left or right then a micro gauge etc etc...

I'm not trying to kill the thread or anyone's dreams of this, there just has to be some voice of reason saying "who's really going to buy all these"... 3 people :)

Still, price dependent... until he cads this and finds the correct aluminum and shaves one down he still doesn't know 100%. That's all I'm getting at.

For perspective, I wanted a custom rail done, I was told no because to keep it even under $200 per rail id have to find more people than he thought would buy it... and that was just a rail. To be made out of any type of cheaper aluminum and whatever else.

[Carnage reigns]

For $100 or so? I'm down! And I don't need it to be a complete valve. I just need the front, keep the bolt of the x-valve I have, I will buy a cap from whoever is producing them, the pick up a reg for the front and presto, we rolling.

[Cokrkilr]

For $100 or so? I'm down! And I don't need it to be a complete valve. I just need the front, I will buy a cap from whoever is producing them, the pick up a reg for the front and presto, we rolling.

Well, technically you'll also need a x valve power tube, power tube o rings, spacers, tip, bolt, on off assembly, then you'll be rolling :)

Since this is just for the front "shell" of the valve.

[Carnage reigns]

And how fast would the recharge be in theory? If I wanted to run a pneumag set up off of this would it be possible?

[Justus]

And how fast would the recharge be in theory? If I wanted to run a pneumag set up off of this would it be possible?

Isn't that going to be totally dependent on what reg you decide to use?

[Cokrkilr]

And how fast would the recharge be in theory? If I wanted to run a pneumag set up off of this would it be possible?


Still using a classic on off, which is the restrictor in the classic valve already.... would make it the same as a classic...

I asked this question about 2 pages back :) athomas answered it

[Carnage reigns]

Isn't that going to be totally dependent on what reg you decide to use?

I'm asking because I have no clue. Let's say I use a AKA sidewinder. Also if I just decided to cap my x-valve and I didn't care about the ability to RT. Could that work? What would I need besides a cap and an external reg?

[Cokrkilr]

I'm asking because I have no clue. Let's say I use a AKA sidewinder. Also if I just decided to cap my x-valve and I didn't care about the ability to RT. Could that work? What would I need besides a cap and an external reg?

Well, in reality you can pneu the classic, same as the x or any other variant because your taking the ability to rt out of the equation... it all comes down to input pressure and human hands. The classic will arguably handle 15 bps before shootdown as is, if you can twiddle your fingers faster that's where you'd have problems. You'd most likely be chuffing and chopping by then though

[OPBN]

I'm asking because I have no clue. Let's say I use a AKA sidewinder. Also if I just decided to cap my x-valve and I didn't care about the ability to RT. Could that work? What would I need besides a cap and an external reg?

Capping an X is more difficult. Caps can be made and honestly Deus did make some, but not sure if he is still making the X caps or not. I wasnt really interested in this as an option as I didnt want to cap a $200 valve. I used to have one that I got really cheap and was going to use that one, but after DM took 2-3 months to finally get back to me, I had decided to sell the valve and move on with some other things.

Maybe I just need to post up a poll and see if we truly have enough takers on this as it sounds like we may be losing steam already.

[Cokrkilr]

I think the idea of caps may still be there, but this whole front business only had a puff of steam to start with

And I agree about capping the x valve, you bought it cuz it's an x valve and for the super fast recharge already built into it.

The cap could sell because it shaves 7oz+/- of the back and makes the marker more sleek looking. Almost like its not a mag anymore...

[OPBN]

I think the idea of caps may still be there, but this whole front business only had a puff of steam to start with

Could care less about caps. I already have mostly what I need on those and can get one or two from DM if needed. I disagree about a puff as I am counting 4-5 people that seemed basically on board and I was considering taking 2, so that put us about 1/2 way there and thats after 1 day or so.

[Patron God of Pirates]

Well, in reality you can pneu the classic, same as the x or any other variant because your taking the ability to rt out of the equation... it all comes down to input pressure and human hands. The classic will arguably handle 15 bps before shootdown as is, if you can twiddle your fingers faster that's where you'd have problems. You'd most likely be chuffing and chopping by then though

You don't have to shoot 16 balls in a second to have this problem. You just need to try to shoot 2 balls in 0.07 seconds. Then you short stroke and blow up the next ball in the barrel.

[Cokrkilr]

OK, you have what you need, what about the other 11 people?

Id just post a poll. But before you do that id get a dead set price from xmt and a final design (if your going to.go with caps or unthreaded)

Otherwise that's going to end up like this thread too

[Cokrkilr]

You don't have to shoot 16 balls in a second to have this problem. You just need to try to shoot 2 balls in 0.07 seconds. Then you short stroke and blow up the next ball in the barrel.

All the more reason for you to make an electro frame for us :) short stroke solved...

[OPBN]

OK, you have what you need, what about the other 11 people?

XMT said he would/can make caps so if thats what people want, let it go that direction. I had a project or two that I would use the valve body in, but if it doesnt come to fruition I'll just nix the projects and move on.

[Cokrkilr]

Id just get with XMT. Find out the price on the power tube, or if they are even available. Or if you have to make one valve useless and unsellable to make another one work (i know some of you dont care either way, but if you have to use the x valve power tube that could be an expensive useless valve).

Then the design. Threaded regular valve back and capped, or solid? The threaded back would make more sense if someone didnt want to use an external reg and just slap the classic valve back on it. Then you run into stainless again, cant anno match it, square one. So does he make the aluminum regs too? now cost goes up (x valve pricing here).

I know you have your project. And thats yours... not everybody will want this for the same thing, just like everybody customizes their mag in their own way.

Seems like many many unknowns, and still, the final price on a complete product.

Edit: Also, approaching 1200 views I'd say most of the active AO community has seen this thread (lets be honest, not a whole lot has been going on lately).... Id say your list is what youve got now. Unless something completely innovative comes out of this.

Edit#2. After thinking about it more, I don't think the correct air passages for the on off could.be made without doing it from the back, meaning the one piece design is potentially out?

[OPBN]

AKA and Palmers regs are aluminum as are most inlines.

[zondo]

Thanks for the input. Some of us want this for other purposes. If you're not interested, cool. No need to spend your efforts trying to kill a project that others may want.

:)

Neat!

If this was started as your or XMT's project thread to actually produce them, you're right, I wouldn't use my energy to detract from making a product. But the original point of the thread was about why AGD never made aluminum classic valves and because the UWL supposedly doesn't allow X valves. It wasn't for your personal endeavors.

But thanks for your input!

[Cokrkilr]

AKA and Palmers regs are aluminum as are most inlines.

OK? Where did this come from?

If it was about the stainless part of my post, its clearly written and ill write it again in different wording . If someone wanted to use this mod to anodize but not run an external reg, like aka or Palmer or any other aluminum one... then they would have to use their stainless agd reg back, thus throwing off the ability to anodize the valve to color match. So is he going to make reg backs as an option too? Since already made aluminum reg backs are not as plentiful as people have made them out to be.

[OPBN]

OK? Where did this come from?

If it was about the stainless part of my post, its clearly written and ill write it again in different wording . If someone wanted to use this mod to anodize but not run an external reg, like aka or Palmer or any other aluminum one... then they would have to use their stainless agd reg back, thus throwing off the ability to anodize the valve to color match. So is he going to make reg backs as an option too? Since already made aluminum reg backs are not as plentiful as people have made them out to be.

I was on my way out of the door and read quickly through your post. Maybe I misread it. IMO, it makes zero sense to produce a full valve due to overall cost, but if someone is willing to buy them, I'm sure XMT will make them. Maybe the capped/threaded route is what people want. If so, cool.

[Cokrkilr]

What happened to.the discussion thread, got deleted already?

[blackdeath1k]

Maybe the capped/threaded route is what people want. If so, cool.

Not me. Not for the expense. Only way I'm considering this is if it is a compact front half only in a small package. Other than that. I will just take an old classic valve to a mill and lathe at work. And this is all still dependent on overall cost and how my petty cash is sitting when it even goes up for order.

Would have posted this in the link. But it doesn't seam to be there.

[blackdeath1k]

:)

Neat!

If this was started as your or XMT's project thread to actually produce them, you're right, I wouldn't use my energy to detract from making a product. But the original point of the thread was about why AGD never made aluminum classic valves and because the UWL supposedly doesn't allow X valves. It wasn't for your personal endeavors.

But thanks for your input!

In a nutshell. AGD didn't make them because they didn't feel it was a cost effective project. Heck. I wonder what year all the al xvalves and mags were created that are still for sale new now.

[Carnage reigns]

XMT if you do decide to do an X-Valve cap I would be all in for that. I'm also in on the classic valve front half. Either way achieves what I'm trying to do.