Opinions on Aluminum Screws

[El Zilcho]

Has anyone ever used these? http://www.kilaproducts.com/product.php?cid=21&sid=62&pid=215 With all the custom anno'ed mags out there seems like someone should have. Are they any good? Do they hold up?

Also, how are the Killa detents? Any discernible difference between them and AGD detents?

[Frizzle Fry]

I'd be wary on a mag, since you're not just holding your frame on to a body.

[Nobody]

the detents are good. they are a magne detent where you have 2 detents are pushing against each other so you have positive resistance and you don't have to worry about spring tension. they are also serviceable so you can fix any problems.

[BiNumber3]

I use brass screws on one of my frames for the grip panels. I wouldn't use anything other than steel or titanium for things that will have greater stress on them

[halB]

What's the worse that could happen?

Aside from your valve rocketing through two layers of drywall, which happened that one time I was drunk and unscrewed the valve while it was still pressurized.

Because that could totally happen. Pretty sure that would kill a person.

[Cokrkilr]

I'm using an aluminum machine screw in my frame... its been in there since id say...... 03'. Its nice and polished like my mag too, and it will be ano'd when I send it in.

[Frizzle Fry]

I wouldn't use anything other than steel or titanium for things that will have greater stress on them

My thoughts exactly. I've seen terrible things happen between the valve and body.

[halB]

Rocketing. Through. Drywall.

BTW, a ton of toothpaste + spackle = your security deposit back.

[Cokrkilr]

Y'all are silly, I used an aluminum screw for my valve too, since 03' as well... I barely got a regular field strip screw maybe a month ago

The only reason I even have a field drip screw now is because I had the guy throw it in on a trade, otherwise it would still be there going on 10-11 years.

[BiNumber3]

Not saying it wouldn't work, it's just not something I'd wanna risk, I know how soft aluminum can be, and how easy it is to strip or snap.

[Frizzle Fry]

Y'all are silly, I used an aluminum screw for my valve too, since 03' as well... I barely got a regular field strip screw maybe a month ago

The only reason I even have a field drip screw now is because I had the guy throw it in on a trade, otherwise it would still be there going on 10-11 years.

That's very unsafe. There are documented issues of valves rocketing off, even destroying z-locks, when subpar hardware is used. I remember a few cases of thumbscrew mixups where the early "battery pack only" Emag thumbscrews were used for valves and snapped right off. I hope Tom will chime in about the dangers of using standard machine screws...

[GoatBoy]

How does a valve even rocket off, considering it should have been attached to something via the air fitting (braided stainless if you're using AGD stuff), and the on/off pin should have snagged on the frame/body if it was under pressure and extended?

[Cokrkilr]

How does a valve even rocket off, considering it should have been attached to something via the air fitting (braided stainless if you're using AGD stuff), and the on/off pin should have snagged on the frame/body if it was under pressure and extended?

That's what I'm sayin...

The screw I got were anodized black and I popped them through cardboard and stripped only the tops. There's zero wear on either and no deformity to the one holding the valve in.... its not like I break out the torque wrench and put em at 100lbs.

Ill mail you two small pieces of drywall to demonstrate how this happens...

When my old field strip screw broke all it did was pop the valve back about 1/8"

[Frizzle Fry]

Thank god for the z-lock.

Can anyone find the old thread where someone used the phony thumbscrew? There were pictures of the rail.

[OPBN]

I will say on one project that I have, I tried to used just a regular buttom head screw in place of the FS screw and it keeps backing out. I even tried putting one of the clear rubber washers on it, but it just keeps working its way loose. And arent the FS screws aluminum?

[Justus]

And arent the FS screws aluminum?

I'm pretty sure they're stainless steel. I've seen them colored, but it was from enamel/paint, not anodizing. Put one to a magnet and find out.

[halB]

That's very unsafe. There are documented issues of valves rocketing off, even destroying z-locks, when subpar hardware is used. I remember a few cases of thumbscrew mixups where the early "battery pack only" Emag thumbscrews were used for valves and snapped right off. I hope Tom will chime in about the dangers of using standard machine screws...


CRAP!

I just got a pretty early emag, and I think I've already mixed the thumbscrews up. How can I tell the difference?

[El Zilcho]

If you are using a level 10, would it even be possible for the valve to come "rocketing" off? I mean if I can stick my finger/tongue in the breach and stop the bolt from moving forward, how would there be enough force to push the mass of the valve in the opposite direction? I have not put a ton of thought in to it, but is seems unlikely to happen.

[Nobody]

aluminium screws are perfectly fine.

to see if you have a an aluminium screw, put it to a magnet. aluminium isn't magnetic so it is picked up by the magnet, then its not aluminium.

you might get a failure if you decide to put it on with torque wrench, but you can easily strip steel or SS screws. if you are unsure, use a washer between the screw head and the body, to give a larger surface area to pull against. other than that, go for it.

[RehKal]

If you are using a level 10, would it even be possible for the valve to come "rocketing" off? I mean if I can stick my finger/tongue in the breach and stop the bolt from moving forward, how would there be enough force to push the mass of the valve in the opposite direction? I have not put a ton of thought in to it, but is seems unlikely to happen.

You are forgetting something important. The spring and the hole that vents the bolt, that's why it's safe for your finger or tongue to be placed in front of the bolt. Remove the thumb screw, unlock your valve and air it up to see what happens. With nothing to prevent the air from bleeding out the end of the power tube you've just created a reverse firing marker that fires a piece of aluminium with 400 or so psi behind it. Now steel braided cable might be enough to stop the valve but I doubt macroline would stop the valve.

I've seen what happens when someone doesn't secure the pieces in the back of the marker when the drunk step father of a friend decided to air up a spyder that was partially disassembled. It didn't hit anyone luckily....

Using something that isn't rated for the tolerances required is just asking for trouble... It'd be almost like inserting plugs into the burst discs on your tank regs... They hold don't they? How often would it be a problem? Not often, till the right circumstances line up.. then you have more trouble than you want.

[Frizzle Fry]

I've never fired a valve but I've seen pictures of what's left of the rail when it happens. That said, I once degassed a classic valve marker with a pushbutton ASA, removed the tank and went to remove the reg nut... There was enough pressure to fire it through the 3/4" pine trimboards in my mancave and it's been lost in the pinkness of insulation ever since.


CRAP! I just got a pretty early emag, and I think I've already mixed the thumbscrews up. How can I tell the difference?

IIRC it was only on early ones, and the imposter thumbscrews were cast aluminum? I wouldn't know how to tell them apart but I'd imagine the cast ones would crack if you wanged on'em with a hammer whereas the good ones would just bend. Not that such a system helps at all. Maybe weigh them with a digital scale? If it's the same you're fine but the cast aluminum one would be significantly lighter.

[Cokrkilr]

This all sounds like hocus pocus....

A reg nut flew through 3/4" wood now... after being degassed? The only thing that should even be out of place in a just degassed mag is the on off pin is down. The air exits the marker when the tank is removed.

This is turning more into a "this happened when I wasn't being safe" thread more than anything.

[Frizzle Fry]

This all sounds like hocus pocus....

A reg nut flew through 3/4" wood now... after being degassed? The only thing that should even be out of place in a just degassed mag is the on off pin is down. The air exits the marker when the tank is removed.

This is turning more into a "this happened when I wasn't being safe" thread more than anything.

It was a pushbutton ASA; it doesn't bleed, and creates a seal that maintains pressure in the marker. You're supposed to push the button, remove your tank, then push it back. I have one on one of my Excaliburs and several members can attest to the fact that you'll get a good 5-10 shots off with the tank completely removed.

Yes, it was unsafe. I wasn't thinking and didn't flush it after removing my tank. Doesn't make the little hole in my trimboard go away.

[Cokrkilr]

I'm not familiar with push button asa's so that makes more sense.

But most of this stuff being brought up is user error, like drunk guys grabbing anassembled markers and taking a strip screw out with an aired up gun.

Its like cleaning a gun with a round in the chamber, if you blow your head off that's your fault, not the piece of hardware...

[Frizzle Fry]

Its like cleaning a gun with a round in the chamber, if you blow your head off that's your fault, not the piece of hardware...

Can't argue with that... But, having a few drunken stupidity stories never hurts when it comes to getting free drinks.

[Cokrkilr]

Can't argue with that... But, having a few drunken stupidity stories never hurts when it comes to getting free drinks.

Got plenty of those :)

[RehKal]

It may be a lot of stories of mistakes being made when handling these, it's possible for anyone to make any kind of mistake after all. But the simple fact is, hardware does eventually fail. Sometimes it can fail spectacularly, other times not so. But there are tolerances and why take the chance with something that will fail sooner rather than later?

Think of how you hold your mags when playing. Most people hold the marker right in front of their face to sight along the barrel. Imagine you had a weakened aluminum screw holding your reg on and during the abuse of the marker firing it breaks. I know there is the zlock... But not all mags have those.

[El Zilcho]

So I also found these http://www.kilaproducts.com/product.php?cid=22&sid=71&pid=224 when I was poking around the Kila website, seems like a good idea, I always found it funny that people would pay to have custom anno work done and then have a bunch of not anno'ed steel pieces here and there. Are these an off the shelf item I could pick up at say mcmaster or some such place? If so, what are the ASA port threads?

[RehKal]

Highly doubtful they are standard items. Set screws an such aren't typically made of aluminum... anodized or not.

Depending on the look of a marker, I'll either use black set screws or silver. Doesn't much matter to me. But then I don't have any truly unique anodized markers yet, give me a bit of time to get one or two done and we'll see if that changes. lol