hardline macrolines, how do you get them or who makes installs them?

[djinnform]

?

[Nobody]

some people have used the Phantom hardline from CCI(from the valve to a vert). i have a custom set of SS hardline that Doc Nickle made on a custom cocker. i have heard that you can use breakline, but i don't know the fittings used to attach it to the gun.

though the hardline looks great; you have the choice of easy to use/easy to find and replace marcoline, easy to use/easy to find SS braided hose, or the hardline. that's the biggest thing about it and why its not used more often.

the one thing with the hardline is that you have to take it off the gun in order. you can't drop the valve in the field, if you need to clean the bolt off if it gets covered in paint,

[Levi]

Are you talking about the rigid stainless airline like the upper line in this pic?


<a href="http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/SidedraftDats/media/Automags/ClassicRTLeft_zpsf3453b06.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s588/SidedraftDats/Automags/ClassicRTLeft_zpsf3453b06.jpg" border="0" alt="Classic RT Before Upgrades (L) photo ClassicRTLeft_zpsf3453b06.jpg"/></a>

If so; then you can get the compression fittings from McMaster Carr

Part # 8239k73 For a 90 deg fitting
or
Part# 8239K13 For a straight fitting

The proper fittings plus a piece of 3/16" Stainless tubing and you're set to make your own.

You'll want to have a tubing cutter too, but those are available cheaply at most any hardware store.

There is another way to do hardlines, using the A/N type flare fittings. That requires a special flare tool though, and those are kinda spendy.

[C_losjoker]

someone correct me if I am wrong, but I thought all hardlines have to be flared for them to seal???

[athomas]

The flared end helps hold the line in place in the fitting in high pressure situations. Hardlines don't need to be flared to seal, though. As long as there is a sealing edge, it will hold air. Often that edge is an oring and compression fitting.

[djinnform]

Are you talking about the rigid stainless airline like the upper line in this pic?


<a href="http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/SidedraftDats/media/Automags/ClassicRTLeft_zpsf3453b06.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s588/SidedraftDats/Automags/ClassicRTLeft_zpsf3453b06.jpg" border="0" alt="Classic RT Before Upgrades (L) photo ClassicRTLeft_zpsf3453b06.jpg"/></a>

If so; then you can get the compression fittings from McMaster Carr

Part # 8239k73 For a 90 deg fitting
or
Part# 8239K13 For a straight fitting

The proper fittings plus a piece of 3/16" Stainless tubing and you're set to make your own.

You'll want to have a tubing cutter too, but those are available cheaply at most any hardware store.

There is another way to do hardlines, using the A/N type flare fittings. That requires a special flare tool though, and those are kinda spendy.


I got the fittings, but which tubing is it? They have so many. 89995k261 ? Thank you for the detailed info.

[Levi]

I got the fittings, but which tubing is it? They have so many. 89995k261 ? Thank you for the detailed info.

When I ordered from them I wasn't sure which wall thickness tubing to use so I ordered a couple different ones.
89785K299 is 0.020" wall thickness for an id of 0.148"
89785K217 is 0.028" wall thickness for an id of 0.132"

I don't remember which one I ended up using but I can look when I get home this evening and post it up here.

[Levi]

Just checked and the one I used was the .028 wall (89785K217).

I popped the hardline loose on the RT pictured above and measured it just to be sure. According to my calipers it measures the same as the tubing I used... so if it was good enough for AGD to send it out on their markers, its good enough to plumb up my gear. Imho

[C_losjoker]

so I was looking on McMaster and noticed that they have aluminum 6061 tubing, anyone know if that can be used and which one/thickness to get? and what fittings for it? I was looking for both so I can anodizing with marker.

[blackdeath1k]

Check pressure ratings. And when in doubt. Call. We use McMaster at work all the time. Always great to deal with.

[djinnform]

I told the girl what I was using it for, and she chose the .35 wall for me. Probably worried I would blow myself up. They tell you the PSI rating next to the part number.

[Frizzle Fry]

I'd pick some up off ya if it's cheap, how many feed did you get?

[splat15k]

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo281/splat15k/DSC_0102_zps0c804cc6.jpg (http://s384.photobucket.com/user/splat15k/media/DSC_0102_zps0c804cc6.jpg.html)

:)

[need4reebs]

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo281/splat15k/DSC_0102_zps0c804cc6.jpg (http://s384.photobucket.com/user/splat15k/media/DSC_0102_zps0c804cc6.jpg.html)

:)

Whoo Whee!! DooD thats AweSome BrothA!!!!

[splat15k]

Whoo Whee!! DooD thats AweSome BrothA!!!!

Thanks man!

For those interested, I used McMaster 89965K442

[need4reebs]

Thanks man!

For those interested, I used McMaster 89965K442

i see a new trend about to happen...haha

[C_losjoker]

Thanks man!

For those interested, I used McMaster 89965K442

Is that with ccm fittings?

[need4reebs]

Is that with ccm fittings?

yeah man...3 CCM and one regular straight fitting...how Kool is that eh??? :headbang:

[djinnform]

Whoo Whee!! DooD thats AweSome BrothA!!!!

This would have saved me a lot of money, if I saw this first. Very nice.

[Levi]

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo281/splat15k/DSC_0102_zps0c804cc6.jpg (http://s384.photobucket.com/user/splat15k/media/DSC_0102_zps0c804cc6.jpg.html)

:)

That's slick!

I wouldn't have thought the ccm fittings would be able to grip the hardline well enough to not blow it out. I'm going to have to try that.

Have you had any sealing issues with this setup?

[splat15k]

That's slick!

I wouldn't have thought the ccm fittings would be able to grip the hardline well enough to not blow it out. I'm going to have to try that.

Have you had any sealing issues with this setup?

This setup has only existed for about 18 hours now, so it hasn't passed the test of time. I initially had some issues with sealing, but shoving in 3 o-rings in the ccm fittings fixed it right up. A Ninja SHP tank still caused some leaks, so more tweaking will be necessary if that's what you want to use. I need to get my tanks filled and get back to testing.

[C_losjoker]

Thanks man!

For those interested, I used McMaster 89965K442

did you or anyone else happen to look at the easy-bend aluminum tubing, can be bent by hand and its the same spec thickness as the one you got. but you can get 10ft for under $20 and 25 for under 22. it is a different aluminum 3033 so for anodizing I don't know if it would come out the same color as the rest of the marker that is 6061.

[splat15k]

For me, the 6061 was a significant factor and having rigid tubing should help maintain a clean appearance. Hand-bendable may be a viable option though.

[UncleStasiu]

This is what happens when you have a necronomicon and too much free time. Poor threads get dragged back to the living...

For anyone wanting to do this, here's some updated info. The McMaster number for the 1/4" OD 6061 Al has been superseded by 89965K441.
Also, if you want stainless instead of aluminum, 89785K824 works fantastically with 2 o-rings in each CCM fitting.

Specs:
89965K441 - 6061 Aluminum, 1/4" OD, 0.049" wall, 0.152" ID)
89785K824 - 314 Stainless, 1/4" OD, 0.035" wall, 0.18" ID)

[BigEvil]

Anyone have the Mcmaster # for the macro fittings? I THINK you can buy them there but it's been a while.

[Cyco-Dude]

Anyone have the Mcmaster # for the macro fittings? I THINK you can buy them there but it's been a while.
you mean compression fittings like on the rt classic? yes, mcmaster has them, if that's what you want to use. they are like $15 each though. maybe 12-13 on ebay when i last looked. i'll dig up some links later for you.

but i thought the option shown here was to just use 1/4" OD tubing and a regular macroline fitting (or ccm fitting)?

[UncleStasiu]

Do you mean the classic nickel plated brass fittings?

Non-swivel ($3.06/ea)
51495K234 - 90 Degree Elbow for 1/4" Tube OD x 1/8 NPT Male

Swivel ($3.47/ea)
51495K214 - Swivel 90 Degree Elbow for 1/4" Tube OD x 1/8 NPT Male

Correction: I think that's what it should be. I have so many from various part outs and repairs, I embarrasingly don't actually remember the OD of macro. It IS 1/4" right? :tard:

If you want compression fittings like Cyco mentioned, here are the numbers from up-thread for 3/16" tube. Just checked them, still correct:



Part # 8239k73 For a 90 deg fitting
or
Part# 8239K13 For a straight fitting


For the 1/4" tube I used, it's 8239K36 for the 90deg and 8239K16 for the straight. The 90degs are ~$15 like Cyco said, the straight are just under $10.

[BigEvil]

THERE they are, thank you sir.

[djinnform]

Great info. This project is on my bucket list.

[jame4091]

How much did you guys pay for shipping on the hard line from mcmaster

[Cyco-Dude]

How much did you guys pay for shipping on the hard line from mcmaster

i've bought from mcmaster several times in the past; their shipping prices are quite low if you live in the 'states. sorry i can't give a more precise answer.

[splat15k]

How much did you guys pay for shipping on the hard line from mcmaster

$4.91 for (3X) 3' lengths.

[jame4091]

Thanks, thats not bad at all

[Mole1119]

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo281/splat15k/DSC_0102_zps0c804cc6.jpg (http://s384.photobucket.com/user/splat15k/media/DSC_0102_zps0c804cc6.jpg.html)



Splat15k,
Did you have any concerns with the how many threads you could get screwed into the valve and still have that macro fitting clear the sight rail?

[jame4091]

I liked your idea so much the I used it.
90369

[splat15k]

Splat15k,
Did you have any concerns with the how many threads you could get screwed into the valve and still have that macro fitting clear the sight rail?

Yes, that was a very real concern; I had to use the older-style universal CCM fittings that had the longer threaded portion, which gave me the necessary clearance.

[Mole1119]

Hmm, I will have to do some hunting, I didn't know there was another version.

Here is my lower hard line so far, getting the bends to line up right in such a tight area was a bit tricky.

90370]

[OPBN]

Has anyone tried the hand bendable stuff? I also saw where McMaster offers some sort of bending cover that is made of spring steel that says it will keep the tubing from kinking. And it's <$2. vs $30+ for the 90* tool.

[Mole1119]

Hmmm that does look interesting, I wonder if it could be anodized and if it could, how would that affects its bendability or finish

I ended up picking up a small tube bender from harbor freight. Its worked well for the price.
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-8-eighth-inch-to-1-4-quarter-inch-tube-bender-94571.html

[OPBN]

Oh that bender from HF isn't bad at all. I might give that a whirl.

[UncleStasiu]

I have a rather nice Imperial bender that works great, (I did the fuel and brake systems in stainless on my Jeep with it,) but that HF one would fit so much better in the portable toolbox. Does it bend easily and without marring?

[Mole1119]

I had a little marring, but I think it was because I was trying to get the second bend so close to the first. I will take a look tonight and take some close ups to show the finish of a single bend. I liked because the diameter of the bend was pretty small compared to the other benders I came across.

[djinnform]

I liked your idea so much the I used it.
90369


very nice

[Runamok]

I saw that Magot is selling kits in the dealer sec. $23 , Anno'd black.

[Mole1119]

90393

90394

90395

90396

I noticed I had more marring when trying to do multiple bends in a very tight area. I definitely made a mistake by ordering one universal fitting from ccm and not two, I would have only had to do one bend instead of three.

Splat15 your mag provided a lot of inspiration for my build.

[Runamok]

Just how stiff is this tubing? cause I've been wondering if my old spring bender (from my hvac days) would work on this stuff without mangleing it up.

[Mole1119]

Its stiff, I have never used a spring bender but it sounds like you do it by hand and I don't think it would work

[Runamok]

I have an Imperial/Eastman bender but I know small close bends are a bugger to get right. In A/C it's ok to get a little sloppy but on a PB gun we wanna stay tight, not always easy. The Primo way would be to do the math and mill some blocks for a hydrolic bender, and then you get into cost and not all set up's are the same. It's a catch 22.

[BigEvil]

Anyone have the part # for macroline? I know it's 1/4" tube, but there are about 100 different ones and I don't want to order the wrong stuff.

[athomas]

Anyone have the part # for macroline? I know it's 1/4" tube, but there are about 100 different ones and I don't want to order the wrong stuff.You don't really need a part number. Just look at the pressure rating and the bend radius. Those two ratings will give you an idea whether it will work for you and the stiffness of the tubing.

[BigEvil]

You don't really need a part number. Just look at the pressure rating and the bend radius. Those two ratings will give you an idea whether it will work for you and the stiffness of the tubing.


Yeah it's still difficult to tell. I don't want to buy 25 ft of something substandard for our uses.

[Runamok]

post #24 has the p/n's I didn't check them but you could start there. 25 ft?

[UncleStasiu]

Yeah it's still difficult to tell. I don't want to buy 25 ft of something substandard for our uses.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?270284-High-pressure-macroline

I swear I haven't been reading your mind... :ninja:

[BigEvil]

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?270284-High-pressure-macroline

I swear I haven't been reading your mind... :ninja:

I ended up getting something from Mcmaster that is 950 psi working pressure. The ID is not as thick as the parker stuff I get from Tuna, but Im going to try this on some non-mag applications and see how it does.

I also got about 9 feet of the aluminum hard line :)

[UncleStasiu]

I ended up getting something from Mcmaster that is 950 psi working pressure. The ID is not as thick as the parker stuff I get from Tuna, but Im going to try this on some non-mag applications and see how it does.

I also got about 9 feet of the aluminum hard line :)

I've used that stuff on other markers, and it's been fine and dandy. I'm going to try running my Xvalve at 1100psi and didn't want to use hardlines on this one, which is why I went hunting for "safe" macro. That aluminum line is awesome. Bends very nicely and seals well out of the box in CCMs. (I put an extra o-ring in anyway, just for peace of mind.)

[NU_METAL]

I dont know if this helps you guys out ,as far as which tubes to use ,but ive been using :
K&S 1/4X.035 - good for some hand bends and handling high pressure
K&S 1/4X.049 - thicker wall & harder to bend , if you have a bender & a vice its no issue
DO NOT make the same mistake i did & order 1/4X.014 !! way to thin and too easily bends. also no good with high pressure
sizes in pic from left to right :
1/4 X .014 - 1/4 X .035 - 1/4 X .049
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/nu_metal9470/IMG_0704_zps4d666edd.jpg (http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/nu_metal9470/media/IMG_0704_zps4d666edd.jpg.html)
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/nu_metal9470/a4c34717-0a0d-4fd1-9892-481d4f156381_zps0444a703.png (http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/nu_metal9470/media/a4c34717-0a0d-4fd1-9892-481d4f156381_zps0444a703.png.html)

This is the chart direct from K&S
If you look in the middle of chart where it says "Round aluminum tubing " follow it down to 1/4 and You will see the sizes they offer,mostly in foot lenths . But when your ordering a roll lets say from somewhere else , you can refer to the chart as to what not to order
part # 83061 for the thickest stuff that im using , only bad part is it only comes in 12"
heres the website
http://www.ksmetals.com

PS for the record IDK what these 2 tubes sizes are like with CCM fitting .I use the regular macro fitting so far

[athomas]

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?270284-High-pressure-macroline

I swear I haven't been reading your mind... :ninja:This brake line is 1200psi burst pressure, not 1200psi working pressure. Its not somethng you want to use on a high pressure marker.

[BigEvil]

This brake line is 1200psi burst pressure, not 1200psi working pressure. Its not somethng you want to use on a high pressure marker.


Maximum Working Pressure (psi)
1200.000


I thought max working pressure and burst pressure were different?

[UncleStasiu]

Maximum Working Pressure (psi)
1200.000


I thought max working pressure and burst pressure were different?

They are. Burst is supposed to be 4 times the maximum working pressure. MSC claims 1200psi is working pressure. Not to say they can't be wrong, but I haven't been able to find anything saying otherwise. If there's a definite spec somewhere saying 1200 is burst, I'd like to know so I can go yell at MSC.

[athomas]

They are. Burst is supposed to be 4 times the maximum working pressure. MSC claims 1200psi is working pressure. Not to say they can't be wrong, but I haven't been able to find anything saying otherwise. If there's a definite spec somewhere saying 1200 is burst, I'd like to know so I can go yell at MSC.Max working pressure is usually listed as the working pressure and burst pressure is usually the absolute minimum pressure that it will handle before bursting. Burst pressure is usually 3 or 4x working pressure, but that is not a hard and fast rule. If you look at the catalogue listing for the MSC line of products, this one in particular, it lists the burst pressure at 1200psi. So, it seems that this item is rated at its burst rating and not the working pressure. If you look in the same catalogue, they are rating the parker tubes at the lower max pressures of approximately 625psi, but don't list a burst pressure. If you look up the burst rating of the parker tubes, the burst rating is about 4 time the max pressure rating and puts them at about a 2600psi burst rating. This all makes sense if you look at the wall thickness of the products. The Parker tubes have much thicker walls which would lead to a higher rating.

[athomas]

I just now found the Eaton pdf for their tubes and it lists the 4247 series max pressure at 300psi.

Eaton® Synflex® Thermoplastic Hose and Fittings (http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@eaton/@hyd/documents/content/pct_506328.pdf)

Look at page 6.

[Runamok]

I think I just exceeded the max. working pressure on a brain cell trying to follow all this.:rofl: next we'll be sending in our air lines for re-hydro. Oi! way over my head at most points. I call the supplier and talk to the tech guys, which may mean I've talked with some of you guys.:hail:

[UncleStasiu]

Ugh, athomas is right. Thanks for the info. Time for a call to MSC. :cuss:

Runamok, here's the short version. The lines I mentioned, (and ordered,) are rated to 1200psi minimum burst and 300psi working pressures by the manufacturer. So they're designed to for systems that operate up to 300psi, but can handle an overpressure event up to 1200psi without failing. Not QUITE what we're looking for here.

The industrial supplier, MSC, has them listed at a working pressure of 1200psi, which would imply a burst pressure of 3600-4800psi. Supplier made a mistake. I've run the length I've cut off at 900psi so far with no ill effects, but recommend against it. What I have left of this hose is going in my spacegun/cocker bin now.