Leaky Xvalve

[VecTor]

Seeking advice from the mag gurus :)

Got a leak down the barrel that I can’t seem to stop. The leak is small; gun still shoots great & holds solid 275fps. When I hold trigger leak does stop. What i have done so far with no luck.

Changed the level 10 washer & power tube oring
Changed carrier size to 1 line+dot (started with 2 lines)
Changed bolt spring with carrier (1 line +dot) lost RT effect with this :(
Changed carrier size to (1 line) with original bolt spring, started getting bolt stick as is it too tight.

I am using a SHP ninja reg @ 950psi. What I am missing?
Thanks for the help.

[need4reebs]

do you have a RT on/off or a ULT?

[nak81783]

If you have shims in the powertube, remove them.

[VecTor]

Sorry, RT on/off and no shims.

[OPBN]

Oil? Its amazing what a few drops can do.

[nak81783]

Replace black outside diameter carrier oring with one from a carrier you'll probably never use. Sometimes those get damaged when pressed by the threads.

[Laku]

Replace black outside diameter carrier oring with one from a carrier you'll probably never use. Sometimes those get damaged when pressed by the threads.

Unlikely be that as he said that he had tried different carriers.

[nak81783]

Unlikely be that as he said that he had tried different carriers.

Yup. Oversight on my part.

[VecTor]

Yea when I looked at exploded view of x-valve chart I thought of that too but each carrier has its own oring :(
Agreed on the oil part. I can tell when i forget to oil as it doesn’t RT as well when it’s getting dry.
Now it’s been a while since I have changed any orings in the entire valve (gotta love mags for that reason alone) is there other orings that could be a prob due to age?

[BigEvil]

Do you have a #0 carrier? Try it, fresh orings, a little oil, no shims.

[nak81783]

How are you removing the powertube internals?

I've ruined brand new powertube orings in one removal using the field strip screw. I now use a dull 90 degree oring pick. I make sure the pick is on the Teflon washer, and pull everything out together. I guess what I'm saying is try another new powertube oring, and be careful removing it when you size the carrier.

As far as other orings, probably not, since your velocity is consistent and there are no other leaks, but I've made a lot of otherwise unexplainable problems go away by changing the orings on either side of the brass reg seat holder.

[VecTor]

I do but at carrier with 1 line I was bolt sticking a lot and still leaking. I soaked the new oring in oil and worked the bolt on the valve.

[BigEvil]

I do but at carrier with 1 line I was bolt sticking a lot and still leaking. I soaked the new oring in oil and worked the bolt on the valve.

You might have to increase the velocity a bit to overcome the bolt stick until the oring breaks in. Using smaller carriers might make your velocity drop some...

[VecTor]

Well that makes since :) didnt even think to check speed again.

[need4reebs]

try loosening or tightening the field strip screw to see if that affects tha leak at all? and maybe check the on/off o-rings...especially tha lil small one that you have to unscrew the on/off top and bottom to get to?

[nak81783]

Do you have a #0 carrier? Try it, fresh orings, a little oil, no shims.

You work on many more markers than I do, so I am respectfully curious as to how many markers you've required the #0 carrier.

I don't think I've ever gotten any of the ones I've worked on to function reliably below the #1 carrier.

Also does the majority of the bolt stick you see occur when the dump chamber is charged or empty? My experience is, the majority of the time, an empty dump chamber.

[BigEvil]

You work on many more markers than I do, so I am respectfully curious as to how many markers you've required the #0 carrier.

I don't think I've ever gotten any of the ones I've worked on to function reliably below the #1 carrier.

Also does the majority of the bolt stick you see occur when the dump chamber is charged or empty? My experience is, the majority of the time, an empty dump chamber.

Every single mag I own has a #0 carrier in it. :) I have to stock extras because I end up putting them (or #.5) in most of my customers guns too

I will get back to you on the other part later, I can't keep my eyes open :D

[Justus]

Every single mag I own has a #0 carrier in it. :) I have to stock extras because I end up putting them (or #.5) in most of my customers guns too

I will get back to you on the other part later, I can't keep my eyes open :D
Must be the o-rings you've got stocked. It seems like all my 'Mags use the 1.5 carrier. I bet that's a common occurrence among people with more than one L10 bolt, finding that they're always looking for the same carrier.

[athomas]

How old is your sear? Is is showing signs of wear at the tip? If the bolt is sitting too far forward due to a worn sear, it can cause the vent hole to be exposed.

[VecTor]

Thats a good point and I have no idea how old the sear is. Im changing out a few other orings, hope to test in next couple days when I can get some more air. This leak is very annoying as i get less 150 shots on a 68 @ 3000psi fill. Wished i could hook my mag right up to the fill station and test from there :)

[Laku]

Could the level 10 bolt stem be loose and little slanted to some direction, resulting in leak?

[athomas]

Thats a good point and I have no idea how old the sear is. Im changing out a few other orings, hope to test in next couple days when I can get some more air. This leak is very annoying as i get less 150 shots on a 68 @ 3000psi fill. Wished i could hook my mag right up to the fill station and test from there :)When dry firing, it uses a lot more air than normal because there is nothing holding it back. All of the air dumps out of the chamber instead of it retaining some residual pressure. That being said, 150 shots is low even for that scenario. It must be quite a leak out the front to use air that fast.

You can hook up directly to the fill station if you have a long enough whip line. Hook the fill station into the fill nipple of your bottle. You can keep your bottle filled if the valve has a full-on setting. I wouldn't worry about that, though. Troubleshoot close to an air source, and you can top up any time.

Isolate the problem concerning the leak. When the gun is ready to fire and is leaking out the front, push the bolt back against the valve. Does it stop leaking? If it stops leaking, then your problem is an exposed vent hole and a location issue. If it doesn't stop leaking, then your problem is carrier and oring related.

[VecTor]

You can hook up directly to the fill station if you have a long enough whip line. Hook the fill station into the fill nipple of your bottle. You can keep your bottle filled if the valve has a full-on setting. I wouldn't worry about that, though. Troubleshoot close to an air source, and you can top up any time.

Whip might be long enough to hook up and still fire my mag. I hope to be at the field today.

Isolate the problem concerning the leak. When the gun is ready to fire and is leaking out the front, push the bolt back against the valve. Does it stop leaking? If it stops leaking, then your problem is an exposed vent hole and a location issue. If it doesn't stop leaking, then your problem is carrier and oring related.[/QUOTE]

I will be trying this today. Im leaning towards a bad sear at this point as i bought it used and dont really know how old it is.

[nak81783]

I forgot to ask if your rail bushing is present.

[VecTor]

Yes the rail bushing is there.

In looking at all other orings I did notice that a lot of the clear or white teflon orings for a lack of a better word not clear or white anymore (Specifically the 2 that fit together in the on/off section and the one in the regulator section) I’m guessing this is a sign that they have been in there for a looong time :) but the question is would this be a cause for leak down the barrel? I am curious as to find what exactly is causing this crazy problem but at the same time there is a fun scenario game coming up next month at my local field and I want my mag in working order for it. Got to represent the automag power for my area!

Thanks again guys for all you input!

[nak81783]

Replace the oring on the aft side of the brass reg seat holder. I can't explain it, but I had an issue once where a slight barrel leak turned into an occasional "burp" of the marker which would roll a ball out of the barrel.

Upon review, the aforementioned oring was crumbled to pieces. I replaced it, and it took care of the issue.

[Arstron]

Have you looked the bolt stem over to make sure there are no gouges in it? By bolt stem I mean the inner stem on the bolt its self.

[VecTor]

Ok here is the update of what I have done so far and I think ruled out.

Hooked up my emag frame and rail to try and rule out issues from I-frame & trigger adjustments, sear & rail. Still the leak...
I did try and push down on the bolt to see if it the leak would stop and it did not.
On the valve I have replaced all orings in the power tube, on/off assembly & all the orings in from of regulator (#31, 33, 34)

Last night when I was sitting down listing to the leak and I noticed that I would hear the leak back by the mid valve section as well as down the barrel. More exact where the body and valve meet there is that small 1/8" gap. Never really noticed this before but the leak does stop when I pull the trigger. Could this be an air leak coming from the on/off assembly area that is pushing air out both the front and back of the main body?

[nak81783]

Loose powertube (not the tip, the whole thing) or bad seal in there (where the entire powertube threads into the rest of the valve)?

When you say it stops when you pull the trigger, do you mean it shoots and then stops immediately?

What does it do if you prevent the bolt from firing and hold the trigger back? Does it stop leaking immediately, or does it leak for a while (a few seconds) before it stops?

[VecTor]

My mag shoots great and when I pull and hold the trigger the leak will stop.

On the power tube idea that would make sense the the entire power tube section has come loose I will try that tonight. I was thinnking that the on/off assebly wasnt sealing correctly but it looks right and is pushed in as far as i can get it.

Thanks

[nak81783]

There are ways to pressurize a valve outside of a marker with some standard hardware to check this, if it comes to that. Just be careful, wear proper personal protection equipment, and always have a quick way to shut off the air supply.

PM me if you need more details.

[VecTor]

Was thinking about that just last night. PM inc.
Question when I pulled out the reg valve pin assy and looked in there (This is without all the power tube parts inside) I can see something right in the middle of that small hole, is this suppose to be there?

[nak81783]

You're probably seeing the on/off assembly. Take it out to see if that was it.

As for airing up outside the marker, if you're uncomfortable with any of this, send it to Tuna to get it fixed. Wear proper PPE, wrap the valve in a towel multiple times in case pieces go flying, and take every precaution possible.

88221
88222
88223
88224

I use the small end of a tank pin valve as an RT on/off plug. If you don't have one to cut up, you'll have to dremel or cut the hose clamp to allow the on/off pin to stick out of the valve, so air can get to the dump chamber. Cut as little as possible from the hose clamp.

Use masking tape to protect valve from scratches from the hose clamp.

That's a 10-32 countersink head bolt. Washer and nut to suit. Use a 010 oring. Only use the bolt to hold the oring in place. If you tighten too much, it throws it off center, and it won't seal. If it's off center, it also may not thread into the powertube. Don't force it. If it's correct, it will thread in just like normal.

The third pic has the RT pin sticking out. That's not the tank pin valve I mentioned earlier. If you use the tank pin valve method, it is totally contained within the on/off.

The pics should be self explanatory from here on out.

This will only tell you if it's the powertube leaking. If it does leak, and you can't tell between the powertube or the tip, spray soapy water on it, and see where the bubbles are coming from.

Remember, go slow and be careful. You might want to turn your tank output pressure down as well as your velocity, so you're dealing with as little pressure as possible.