micro mags

[vintage]

is there something odd about them that keeps people from buying them. i have seen several on ebay and a couple here for sale at what i think is a good price and they aren't moving. are they that much of a niche product?:confused:

[BTAutoMag]

alot of them suffer from machining errors. not bad ones but bad enough to piss you off 3 min into a game during that 1 really important kill or be killed moment. theres alot of threads about it. if you click the archives above you can read some about it

EDIT: most people have really good luck with them but the seller isnt exactly going to tell you when youre buying a lemon

[vintage]

cavet emptor

[Patron God of Pirates]

I can only speak for myself. I just think they are ugly.

[OPBN]

Post links to the ones you're talking about. The only ones that had some issues were the MM2K9 ones and even then it wasn't all of them. Maybe the ones you're looking at are overpriced.

[GoatBoy]

Well, aside from the overwhelming and foul stench of PTP, what you got for the money doesn't seem like much.

You get very little by way of functionality. Cocker threads, which are available elsewhere now. Feedneck options which are available elsewhere now. And the PTP detent which is nice but it's not like the other detent styles are horrible.

I don't think you really get any decent weight reduction. With the rail built into the body, that means you can't upgrade the rail to the latest swooshy aesthetic best-looking-gun-in-the-deadbox whatever. That also extends to the foregrip, where your options become more limited.

You buy one if you want to have something "special".

If you like exactly what PTP gives you, you're probably good to go. There are some really "nice looking" ones out there. But if you want to change anything -- even if it's swapping out the wobbly trigger frame, I fail to see the point. IMO they're best left whole.

I owned one very briefly from a craigslist acquisition. It was amusing, but... just wasn't worth the money that was tied up in it.

[Sk8ermog]

is there something odd about them that keeps people from buying them. i have seen several on ebay and a couple here for sale at what i think is a good price and they aren't moving. are they that much of a niche product?:confused:

I know what you mean. For awhile Micromags were pretty popular and really were considered one of the higher-end automags because of the cocker threading and compact body/rail design. The newer 2k9 body's issues did put a bit of a damper on the name "Pro Team Products," but at least they tried putting out a new product for a gun designed in the 90s.

I also know what you mean about the prices of them going down. I've seen a lot of them with RT valves and some basic upgrades go for around $200. Actually I can confirm this because I've bought 2 micromags in the last few months at that price point. I've been grabbing them up when I see a good deal cause I have big plans for helping to correct some of the main issues of the Micromag. The 2 biggest problems I see with the micromag are: non upgradable forgrip and powerfeed feedneck. 2 issues that should be fixed once my machinist gets his mill fixed. ;) I'll make a thread about all this once I have more info.

[OPBN]

Would still be curious as to which ones the OP feels aren't selling for what they're worth. Really unless they have special anodizing, they aren't coveted since there seems to have been a fair amount of them made, at least the Gen 3/4 ones. Keep in mind that unless they have the front VASA, they are hard to sell, as there are few options to replace it. Lukes made/makes a gas through for them that is quite nice, but other than that, there are few options. Not sure why so many of them came without the VASA, but nowdays people want them to have them. And PTP no longer has any. A lot of people don't like the powerfeed either on the pre 2k ones. You'll also find the chrome/nickel ones don't usually sell very well either.

[debruynda]

Well, aside from the overwhelming and foul stench of PTP, what you got for the money doesn't seem like much.

You get very little by way of functionality. Cocker threads, which are available elsewhere now. Feedneck options which are available elsewhere now. And the PTP detent which is nice but it's not like the other detent styles are horrible.

I don't think you really get any decent weight reduction. With the rail built into the body, that means you can't upgrade the rail to the latest swooshy aesthetic best-looking-gun-in-the-deadbox whatever. That also extends to the foregrip, where your options become more limited.

You buy one if you want to have something "special".

If you like exactly what PTP gives you, you're probably good to go. There are some really "nice looking" ones out there. But if you want to change anything -- even if it's swapping out the wobbly trigger frame, I fail to see the point. IMO they're best left whole.

I owned one very briefly from a craigslist acquisition. It was amusing, but... just wasn't worth the money that was tied up in it.

Do they have feedneck options?

[OPBN]

Do they have feedneck options?

Pre 2000 ones had powerfeed and direct feed options. 2k was vert, a handful had threaded feednecks. MM2k9's are Angel threaded.

[GoatBoy]

Whoah... editor is freaking out...

While there was variety, it's hard to call those options. If you wanted to change, unless you had a threaded one or found a dovetail that you wanted... you sold the body and got a different one. On a normal mag, buying/selling just a body makes more sense. On a micromag, seemingly not so much.

[vintage]

OPBN, i have seen several for$249.00 or less, some with r/t valves and killer anno that arn't selling. i'd post links if i was any good on this contraption. i'd have thought the ones with r/t valves would at least get some interest but for the most part i'm not seeing any.

[OPBN]

OPBN, i have seen several for$249.00 or less, some with r/t valves and killer anno that arn't selling. i'd post links if i was any good on this contraption. i'd have thought the ones with r/t valves would at least get some interest but for the most part i'm not seeing any.

There are 5 Micros on EBay right now. 2 have cut frames. Both are probably not badly priced but not exactly bargains. Purple one is actually really nice, but has a pretty high starting bid. Other two are simply out of line.

[MAGgot]

The Micromag is the greatest Mag platform, and the only semi I use. The detent, feedneck, cocker barrel, rail-less design, built in expansion chamber fore-grip option, and downright BEST ano's solved the shortcomings of the classic mag. This gun was way before its time.
I currently own over 20 Micros, and have owned somewhere around 60. The two cut frames on Ebay are mine. None that I have ever owned have this mythical machining error that BT mentions in every Micro thread. The thread that he seems to have sourced this opinion from is one about Micro-Emag issues.
Long live the Micromag.

[MAGgot]

This thread need pics.
http://www.otterpaintball.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/SDC12712.jpg
http://www.otterpaintball.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/SDC12719.jpg
http://www.otterpaintball.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/SDC15493.jpg
http://www.otterpaintball.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/SDC12711.jpg
http://www.otterpaintball.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/SDC12716.jpg
http://www.otterpaintball.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/SDC12053.jpg
http://www.otterpaintball.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/SDC12702.jpg
http://www.otterpaintball.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/SDC12713.jpg

[maverick13]

Very nice pics and markers.

I've a 2k9 bought brand new last year from PTP, and had absolutely no issues with it. I really like its look and it's shooting perfectly.
I just had to put a Xvalve instead of the Emag valve I planned for it; because it didn't fit in the body.

I think the micromag gen3 or 4 is really the piece who's missing in my armory.

I hope I'll find a black gen3 or 4 with vert asa in good condition (at the same time I've money for !).

[mpsd]

Mine:
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x299/mpsd18/temporary-51.jpg
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x299/mpsd18/temporary-35.jpg
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x299/mpsd18/1d085a46.jpg
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x299/mpsd18/7d99d0fb.jpg
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x299/mpsd18/DSC06555.jpg

[Sk8ermog]

deja vu

deja vu

We should start a Micromag Pic thread.

[vintage]

honestly, i think the thing that attracts me to micro's is the killer annodizing jobs. i especially like the lightning bolt one of MAGgots.

[debruynda]

honestly, i think the thing that attracts me to micro's is the killer annodizing jobs. i especially like the lightning bolt one of MAGgots.

I agree, I think the tiger stripe camo anno pattern they did is still one of my favorites.

The only thing I really did/do not like about them is the vertical mount, it's funky and you have limited options because of it.

[Stevescuba]

884868848788488


My baby

[MAGgot]

The VA on the Micromag solved a problem with classic mags, the foregrips tended to spin unless excessively cranked down. That often resulted in stripped screw heads.
AGD later indirectly acknowledged this problem by releasing RT-Pro with the two-hole VAs.

[barkingspider]

Mine:
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x299/mpsd18/1d085a46.jpg
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x299/mpsd18/7d99d0fb.jpg

Love it......t2w works just so well. Never thought of adding a gauge to the opposing port.

[Syko89]

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u382/sykoraider/tapatalk_1378669348563_zpsfda1e14f.jpg

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u382/sykoraider/tapatalk_1378669343161_zps0d69f2a5.jpg

My 2k9 micro emag

[GoatBoy]

The Micromag is the greatest Mag platform, and the only semi I use. The detent, feedneck, cocker barrel, rail-less design, built in expansion chamber fore-grip option, and downright BEST ano's solved the shortcomings of the classic mag. This gun was way before its time.

When viewed from a modern context, the "fixes" offered by a micromag are fairly minor, and in some cases come with some caveats.

The best thing about them is indeed the aesthetic anno jobs. They make excellent wall hangers.



The two cut frames on Ebay are mine.

So PTP didn't solve the shortcoming of having the same frame capable of both single/dual finger triggers, even though they could have easily done so since they switched to cocker threads. And they knew very well that people were cutting up frames.



The VA on the Micromag solved a problem with classic mags, the foregrips tended to spin unless excessively cranked down. That often resulted in stripped screw heads.
AGD later indirectly acknowledged this problem by releasing RT-Pro with the two-hole VAs.

So... have you never owned a classic mag? Classic mag VA's have a groove/landing in them which mates up against the shape of the classic rail.

Unless there's something I'm missing in the history, AGD later cause the problem by ditching the dovetail pattern on the rails, and then unbroke the situation with the two-hole VA's.

[MAGgot]

When viewed from a modern context, the "fixes" offered by a micromag are fairly minor, and in some cases come with some caveats.
The difference between a muzzleloader and a breechloader also seems minor in a modern context.
The point is, many of these were significant features for a mag to have in the 90's, and the later AGD mags adopted them (cocker barrel, foregrip attachment, detent upgrade, aluminum body)


So PTP didn't solve the shortcoming of having the same frame capable of both single/dual finger triggers, even though they could have easily done so since they switched to cocker threads. And they knew very well that people were cutting up frames.
Please name any company that did? There is no aftermarket trigger frame of that era (for any gun) that came with a removable trigger guard to swap b/n single and double. The only example of this that I can think of is the Intimidator, which came much later.


So... have you never owned a classic mag? Classic mag VA's have a groove/landing in them which mates up against the shape of the classic rail.
Unless there's something I'm missing in the history, AGD later cause the problem by ditching the dovetail pattern on the rails, and then unbroke the situation with the two-hole VA's.
Valid point, but the most popular fore-grips of the time made this problem obvious - the Smart-Grip and the Eclipse/Smart Parts foregrip that came with splash kits.

[robertsr1811]

Ooo. A gun pron thread...

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g21/robertsr1811/DSCF4769_zpsc5d5f389.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/user/robertsr1811/media/DSCF4769_zpsc5d5f389.jpg.html)

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g21/robertsr1811/IMG00255-20110617-01191-1.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/user/robertsr1811/media/IMG00255-20110617-01191-1.jpg.html)

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g21/robertsr1811/IMG00243-20110617-00541.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/user/robertsr1811/media/IMG00243-20110617-00541.jpg.html)

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g21/robertsr1811/IMG00239-20110617-00481.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/user/robertsr1811/media/IMG00239-20110617-00481.jpg.html)

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g21/robertsr1811/IMG00229-20110617-00411.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/user/robertsr1811/media/IMG00229-20110617-00411.jpg.html)

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g21/robertsr1811/IMG00224-20110617-00331.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/user/robertsr1811/media/IMG00224-20110617-00331.jpg.html)

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g21/robertsr1811/IMG00221-20110617-00321.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/user/robertsr1811/media/IMG00221-20110617-00321.jpg.html)

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g21/robertsr1811/IMG00203-20110603-1937.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/user/robertsr1811/media/IMG00203-20110603-1937.jpg.html)

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g21/robertsr1811/100_0499.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/user/robertsr1811/media/100_0499.jpg.html)

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g21/robertsr1811/100_0538-1.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/user/robertsr1811/media/100_0538-1.jpg.html)

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g21/robertsr1811/DSCF3031.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/user/robertsr1811/media/DSCF3031.jpg.html)

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g21/robertsr1811/DSCF2466.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/user/robertsr1811/media/DSCF2466.jpg.html)

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g21/robertsr1811/Happy_Family_4.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/user/robertsr1811/media/Happy_Family_4.jpg.html)

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g21/robertsr1811/Cool_Breeze_2.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/user/robertsr1811/media/Cool_Breeze_2.jpg.html)

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g21/robertsr1811/Jungle_Fever_1.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/user/robertsr1811/media/Jungle_Fever_1.jpg.html)

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g21/robertsr1811/Mint_E_1.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/user/robertsr1811/media/Mint_E_1.jpg.html)

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g21/robertsr1811/100_0658.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/user/robertsr1811/media/100_0658.jpg.html)

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g21/robertsr1811/BlueMicro1.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/user/robertsr1811/media/BlueMicro1.jpg.html)

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g21/robertsr1811/MagnoliaRightSmall.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/user/robertsr1811/media/MagnoliaRightSmall.jpg.html)

[swe_crazy]

Have some Micromags and have not experienced any problems with them. The marker I use the most is actually a Micromag. Just as with Automags all they need is a little oil and some love.:D;)

[GoatBoy]

The point is, many of these were significant features for a mag to have in the 90's, and the later AGD mags adopted them (cocker barrel, foregrip attachment, detent upgrade, aluminum body)

I thought the point was why these things seem to not be fetching as good prices *today*. I'm sure they were awesome in the early-to-mid 90's. Every one of my responses so far has been in a modern context.




Please name any company that did? There is no aftermarket trigger frame of that era (for any gun) that came with a removable trigger guard to swap b/n single and double. The only example of this that I can think of is the Intimidator, which came much later.

I can't answer the "era" bit of this, but even Tippmann (and later BT) managed to do it. I mean, that is the bottom of the barrel right there. If ever the phrase, "Well, Tippmann managed to make it work" enters the conversation, you know you've hit bottom.



Valid point, but the most popular fore-grips of the time made this problem obvious - the Smart-Grip and the Eclipse/Smart Parts foregrip that came with splash kits.

I never owned either of these "most popular fore-grips", but it seems PTP didn't actually solve the problem. At best, they reoriented the screw hole and simply broke compatibility with the malformed parts you mentioned.

That's kind of a fishy way to address a problem. Not unique to PTP, nor unique in the history of Automags, but still not an appropriate solution.

In this case, I don't think they were even trying to solve this "problem". I think the problem they were trying to solve was "how to attach a foregrip to a single-piece body without drilling a hole all the way through the top to allow for the cap screw to hold the existing style of foregrip." Thus they just broke compatibility with existing foregrips, malformed or not.

When the 2k9 rolled around, they offered multiple options for the foregrip attachment. I never got in on that deal, but wasn't one of those configurations "single vertical screw"?

[MAGgot]

I thought the point was why these things seem to not be fetching as good prices *today*. I'm sure they were awesome in the early-to-mid 90's. Every one of my responses so far has been in a modern context.
I didn't know we were even discussing prices anymore. Functionality has little to nothing to do with the resale value of paintball guns. KP2's sell for $500 and Ions sell for $40.

All of my posts in this thread are addressing the pervasive negative attitude on AO towards Micromags that started a few years ago. There is no "mis-machined" Micromag prior to the Micro E-mag, which is almost all of them. I don't remember hearing ANYONE at the time (90's) questioning the quality of Micromags, this is a new phenomenon. I can only think this is due to Francois Louvet's 100's of fake Micromag bodies, the Micro Emag thread BT always links to, and the MM2k9 flop.

[mpsd]

... and the MM2k9 flop.

That's the problem. And you know, I honestly think that besides the machining problems some of those bodies had and the delay itself, the root of the problem was Tracy's lack of professionalism and overall lack of emotional maturity to deal with it. If she was just a little bit more professional, she could have handled it in an entirely different way and avoid this mess. Even worse is that right after that, she ran a new batch of Cocker bodies and, again, had severe quality problems so as of now, I believe PTP is history, at least in the paintball market. For me it is, anyway.