Cussing...

[manike]

I'm intrigued as to some of the cusswords which are allowed here and some that are not.

Obviously it's a different culture thing because certain words we would find harmless over here and that are even used more in an amusement way are censored (Thanks Army for the only time I think I have ever been edited ;) I normally try to not be offensive by my own standards).

And some (mainly just one) which I find quite offensive is allowed completely. I know you guys use it to mean annoyed/angry but over here it's an offensive swear word when used in the same context as you guys use it. It can be used in a non-offensive manner, to mean very drunk but it's not the kind of word I would use in front of my mother in the ways it gets banded about on here.

While on the subject it was quite funny when I explained to an American friend just quite what some of the words she was using actually meant :)

manike

[Load SM5]

Actually, one of the best days I spent in England was in a small pub in York listening to a group of guys at a bachelor party who were really pi..drunk. They were all loud, especially the groom, and not afraid to tell you and everyone exactly what was on their mind. It proved really educational.

I picked up a great book comparing American and British insults. Who would have thought sticking 2 finger in the air would cause such a reaction?:rolleyes:

[cphilip]

Interesting story in reverse Manike:


One of our Professors here of Indian Decent and Schooled in England. Another totaly American Prof took him and his family camping for their first time at one of the state parks. They wanted to make a camp fire so the Indian Prof went up to the little store in the park to buy some wood. he also wanted some small "kindling" wood to help start it. So in his English manor this was reffered to as "***gots". You'll just have to guess the word as the filter doesn't like it see? So he asked the store keeper repeatedly if they had any ***gots as he wished to buy some. They were agast as you can imagine as that is a unkindly reference to Homosexuals here in America. Luckily the other Prof came in before anything got out of hand and explained the situation.

True story.

Just shows to go you it works the other way around too!

:D

[manike]

Yeah it means something completely different in the USA if you say you are 'going to go outside and smoke a ***' Here a ***got is food and a *** is a cigarette. It is sometimes used as a term for homosexuals but not as much as in the US.

I was drinking at the World Cup this year and was ahem 'very' drunk. I told one of my US mates that I was p'd and he said why what's the problem? I replied no problem I'm just very p'd and he was all concerned until I realised and explained that I was just drunk as a newt... (where did that expression come from?) :)

manike

[manike]

Oh yeah a very common expression here is to 'bum a ***'... it means to request a cigarette from someone :rolleyes:

If you 'bum' something from someone it means to get given it without having to pay for it.

manike

[Shaft]

I'll say it again, Brits are silly. :p

If it weren't for English beers - I'd say we make that island our next Hawaii. Hah!

:D

[shartley]

I love the two finger thing. Great history with that as well....

For those that don't know (brief.. LOL):
This gesture developed from the fingers used by bowmen (longbow). Class warfare has been a part of most societies and even occurred on the battlefield…. Even within the same Army. You had Knights, Pikemen, Swordsmen, Bowmen, etc. And your position in the Army, and your actual job, was most often dictated by your civilian status.

One of the lowest levels was the Bowman. Some of the reasons for this is because most peasants already knew how to shoot a Bow for food, Bows were cheaper to make than Swords (thus you could outfit more soldiers for less), and it took little training to use effectively than a sword or pike. Funny though since it was actually the most effective weapon on the battlefield (even to this day with modern advancements of course.. Artillery, rifles, etc.).

How does class warfare come into play then?

Well, since you killed with a Bow from a distance (no actual “combat” involved) it was considered less “Noble” and actually scoffed at by those trained in the traditional styles of combat…. You got it… the Upper Class. But now a peasant could take down a Knight or ANY nobleman! And they could do so with relative ease. And to be killed by an arrow shot by a peasant was NOT a “noble” way to die…. Boo hoo.

So the two fingers became a symbol of pride, and even used as an "Up Yours" to the Higher Classes. It has stuck to this day in most “English” derived communities (England, Australia, South Africa, etc.), but unfortunately not in the US.

Does anyone know why we in the US use just the single Middle Finger? (Save me from having to go find out.. LOL)

[manike]

Actually the reason that sticking two fingers up is an insult is because if Bowmen were caught by the opposite side they would have the two fingers that they used for Archery cut off.

So it was a way of showing disrespect to the opposition to stick their fingers up and show that they still had them. It wasn't just a class thing.

It was a kind of 'nah nah look my fingers are still attached' thing :) In the same way that if someone just missed your leg in paintball you might stick it out from behind the tree and wave it at them :) (seen someone do that to me and I shot it when they waved it :) )

I live near Warwick Castle in the UK which is one of the finest examples in this Country (and I dare say the World) they have re-enactments of archery and Swordfighting and Jousting etc. It's really quite fascinating and you'd be amased at how many modern terms and ways are derived from such things in our history.

manike

[shartley]

Manike
thanks for elaborating a bit more. You are correct… it is both. It is not just a Class thing alone, but Class does play a part in the big picture. I just did not want to write a book… LOL

Again, thank you for adding to it. :D

I STILL would like to know why we only use ONE finger here in the US though. LOL

[synreal]

http://www.ooze.com/finger/html/history.html - hmm, what a surprise, it's a phallic reference ;)

[manike]

The reason the USA just uses one finger? Maybe because you are two lazy to use two :D

I've never heard of the 'two finger salute' being anything to do with class, but it may have been. We were always just told about the finger cutting off reason. But bowmen were selected from the lower classes. Extremely successful though. I used to do some archery and it's amazing what an original longbow is capable off. An extremely powerful and effective weapon of it's day. There was little to stop it. They are some displays of armour and chain mail with arrow holes in it at Warwick and if I remember correctly there is a display of arrow heads telling you what each was for. They designed them for attacking different defences and for hunting different game etc.

I find medieval weapons fascinating. I once made a scale model of a trebuchet and it was remarkably effective and accurate...

They made a full size one in Scotland with which they hurled cars :)

manike

[manike]

The history of the two fingered salute...

"Before the Battle of Agincourt in 1415, the French, anticipating victory over the English, proposed to cut off the middle finger of all captured English soldiers. Without the middle finger it would be impossible to draw the renowned English longbow and therefore be incapable of fighting in the future. This famous weapon was made of the native English Yew tree, and the act of drawing the longbow was known as "plucking the yew" (or "pluck yew").

Much to the bewilderment of the French, the English won a major upset and began mocking the French by waved their middle fingers at the defeated French, saying, "See, we can still pluck yew! "PLUCK YEW!"

Over the years some 'folk etymologies' have grown up around this symbolic gesture. Since 'pluck yew' is rather difficult to say (like "pleasant mother pheasant plucker", which is who you had to go to for the feathers used on the arrows for the longbow), the difficult consonant cluster at the beginning has gradually changed to a labiodental fricative 'F',and thus the words often used in conjunction with the one-finger-salute are mistakenly thought to have something to do with an intimate encounter. It is also because of the pheasant feathers on the arrows that the symbolic gesture is known as "giving the bird".

And yew all thought yew knew everything!"

Exactly as taken from:-
http://www.thebeckoning.com/medieval/longbow/longbow-finger.html

manike

[synreal]

Ah, the "F" word, it seems to have half a dozen other back grounds as well.

"The word F*** was actually used quite some years ago, starting in about the 1500s. It was back in those times when you had the kings who had their ladies in waiting and everything. In order to keep the blood lines "blue", the kings chose men they wanted to father children with their ladies-in-waiting. So pretty soon it became known as to "fornicate under the command of the king" which is abbreviated to well, we all now what it got abbreviated too."

It has also been claimed to be an acronym for criminal sexual conduct "full/forced unlawful carnal knowledge"

[Thordic]

I read something once about all the alledged sources for the F word. It gave all these stories about plucking yew, and fornicating under the command of the king, etc, and then at the end it simply said that in truth, we aren't sure where the word came from exactly.

I personally think all these stories are just stupid things people made up because they think it sounds cool.

Not the two finger thing, I don't know about that, I just mean the sources of the F word.

[TheTramp]

My mother was on a walking tour in England and one morning she asked the group if anyone had seen her "fanny" pack. The walk guide got a little worked up and told her she should say "but" pack or something else. Just NOT "fanny" pack.

What she didn't know is that while fanny means rear-end in the States, it means something very different in the UK. I think Manike will see where she went wrong.

[manike]

Fanny is also an old name. Only old ladies are called it nowadays as no-one would name their kid that anymore...

I think it's pretty much impossible to fall on your fanny in the UK :)

We call 'fanny packs' 'bum bags' here.

manike

[Load SM5]

Ah, my mind is awash with Eddie Izzard quotes now.

"You say 'erb'. But over here we say 'Herb' because it's got a (censored) 'H' in it.

[manike]

Eddie Izzard can be (censored) funny :)

manike

[shartley]

Thanks Manike! That is exactly what I wanted (too busy to look it up myself.. LOL).

And thanks everyone for your input.. great thread. :D

[TheTramp]

Manike,
I knew the P word (drunk) meant you were drunk but I never knew it was bad to use it to mean angry in the UK. Can you compare it to something we would say here? I can't think of a way to say that I was angry that would be really offensive other then adding in explatives like f'ing.

[manike]

In terms of angry to say I was p'd off would be very close to saying I was f'd off. Very close.

manike

[TheTramp]

I hope I didn't offend anyone last time I was over there :D

[manike]

It's ok we expect Americans to be naturally offensive and make allowances :) hehehe

Just don't wear white socks with black shoes... That I don't forgive :D

manike

[Army]

Boy, this one really teeters on the edge of deletion. Only because you guys are keeping it civil, constructive and historical, not to mention cultural, that I will let it stay.

Thanks for being aware of what you are talking about! Dave

[manike]

Yeah Army I was thinking that with the last post I made, and if you feel the need to delete please go ahead. It is quite an interesting thread though and people are acting responsibly and maturely. If you think certain posts push the line I have no issue with them being censored/deleted. I'm very respectful of the way that people are abbreviating the word that I find offensive and not using it even though they can. That shows considerable thought in my eyes.

The whole reason I started it is that I was amused by what was censored and what wasn't. If this was moderated for English family acceptance then it would be moderated a little differently.

I appreciate it is sensitive but I think it is being discussed rather well.

manike

[cphilip]

Well so far the level of intelligence here has been good enough to walk the line. And very educational. However I fear it will not last long. This one deserves to stay if possible so lets all agree to lock it at the first sign and clean it up and leave it that way.

Just in case.

[synreal]

i've spoken my peace about the potty words ;) im fine with locking it before it goes downhill

[the JoKeR]

Originally posted by manike
The reason the USA just uses one finger? Maybe because you are two lazy to use two :D

OK, can't argue with that too much, but then again we only need one finger to push "the button", so we might as well get used to using the longest one so we don't have to reach too far!

England and America: two countries separated by a common language!

I'm bi-lingual: I speak English and American!

[ThePatriot]

No one has talked about the origin of the S word. From what i have heard, it came about in medieval europe when the black plague was spreading. The word came to refer to the plague, and if it was said, it was said to be cursing the other person with the plague. No one wanted to do this and i believe the church outlawed the word, anyone have anything to say on the matter? I could be off but i believe thats what happened. Maybe Manike knows

[Load SM5]

Originally posted by ThePatriot
Maybe Manike knows

Or he'll make something up....

I can see it now...."The s-word is derived from the druids. It means, "we have to drag this bloody great rock how far?'"

[manike]

Originally posted by Load SM5
I can see it now...."The s-word is derived from the druids. It means, "we have to drag this bloody great rock how far?'"

LMAO. That's the funniest thing I have read for ages :) absolutely brilliant. Reminds me a bit of Obelix.

Actually I have no idea about the origins of the word. I wonder if there is a website somewhere which has this kind if information? I'd be amazed if some sad person hasn't already researched it...

Thanks for that Load SM5 :)

manike

[Load SM5]

Yer welcome.

I used to love Obelix.

[bofh]

Finnally a thread I can help out on.

WARNING - Links to site that mention Cuss words are below. Do not follow these links if you offended by the printed word. the text is basically free of bad words however.

here (http://www.snopes2.com/language/acronyms/****.htm) is a site that debunks most of the origins of the f-word. Short story, it's a germanic word, not an acronym. and in case the cuss filter edits the url, the page is expanded version of the f-word.htm

As for the fecal matter word, "S" and few other is discussed here (http://www.bizarremag.com/ask/words.html) .

The "S" word is based on an old English word for diarrhoea, which is itself Germanic in origin, from scheissen.

I'm here to help,
Shaun

[Butterfingers]

*edit* Ah ah ahhh, let's keep it civil and constructive. This is not a thread to simply cuss on, but a surprisingly creative discussion of word origin. Let's keep it mature. Army


My apologies...

[mikey101]

I've been on this site since last July, and I must say that this is one of the most interesting posts i've ever seen! It's a little bit awkward, but I havn't learned this much about such nonsense as this in quite a while.

[Butterfingers]

You know when I was a cub scout we used a 2 finger salute.

[bond1313]

Lol, butterfinger I rember doing that to the american flag back when I was a coub scout. My friends dad never like him doing it though I could never figure out why. Well now I know thanks for the insight manike.