Uni-Frame?

[Patron God of Pirates]

We've seen quite a few uni-body's (body & rail in one). Why haven't we seen any uni-frames? As in frame and rail in one. It seems like there would be more design flexibility here. Then again, I'm not a machinist so I'm probably missing something obvious.

[OPBN]

Some one on here, I think it was Pneumagger, actually had a CAD design for an integrated rail/frame/VASA, but it never came to being. ITT, part of the problem like everything around here is everyone wanted something different. Vert, 45*, Pneuable, not pneuable, single, double, vert asa, 15* vasa, reverse 15* Vasa etc. Lots of variables.

[BigEvil]

Im not allowed to say anything in this thread :)

[Patron God of Pirates]

Yeah that sure does happen. You can please some of the people some of the time...

[Patron God of Pirates]

Im not allowed to say anything in this thread :)

Vague comments allow me to believe what I feel like believing.
I'm going with -Simon is designing a Uni-Frame and Big E is in on it.
Sweet! I love when I make things up that are true.

[SoulCoffin]

Im not allowed to say anything in this thread :)

Can you say something in a different thread?

[Nobody]

Nobody knows anything about this. Nobody was shown any preliminarily desgins. so Nobody can comment on this subject.

[BigEvil]

I am pretty sure I posted a CAD mock up around here somewhere a while ago..

[knownothingmags]

I am pretty sure I posted a CAD mock up around here somewhere a while ago..
I could send you it:ninja:

[mpsd]

Nobody knows anything about this. Nobody was shown any preliminarily desgins. so Nobody can comment on this subject.

LOL That old joke still works for me hahahaha Now quit the "nobody" thing and post up a link to it!

[Nobody]

LOL That old joke still works for me hahahaha Now quit the "nobody" thing and post up a link to it!

like i've seen them, but i do not have them. because its someone else's intellectual property, i wouldn't show it without that person's consent. so the owner will have to post up the pic, sorry.

also, if the joke may be old, it still gets a laugh, or a smile or chuckle; i'll still use it.

[BigEvil]

http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc395/Cougar20th/Private/IMG_0746_zps537446ce.jpg (http://s1209.photobucket.com/user/Cougar20th/media/Private/IMG_0746_zps537446ce.jpg.html)

[Laku]

Oh! I like how that looks!

[GoatBoy]

/me chuckles

[rukh013]

http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc395/Cougar20th/Private/IMG_0746_zps537446ce.jpg (http://s1209.photobucket.com/user/Cougar20th/media/Private/IMG_0746_zps537446ce.jpg.html)

did you print this BE? i love the look a blend of a m90 and airwalk kinda... needs a cleaner forgrip, more streamlined with the body

[mpsd]

WOW! Fantastic. I'm not so sure about the front grip and trigger (not my cup of tea) but the frame looks awesome! Maybe I'd add a little bit more space for the trigger guard and have a smaller front grip.

[Spiritchaser]

Internal air routing to a banjo bolt!

Just kidding.

[knownothingmags]

cant beat functioning printed parts :)

[BigEvil]

WOW! Fantastic. I'm not so sure about the front grip and trigger (not my cup of tea) but the frame looks awesome! Maybe I'd add a little bit more space for the trigger guard and have a smaller front grip.

Front grip is detachable and the mount on the front will be a standard slot like on many of the RT style rails.

[mpsd]

Front grip is detachable and the mount on the front will be a standard slot like on many of the RT style rails.

:headbang:

Question: will the final product be a printed frame or is this a study for an aluminum milled product? I wonder about the strength of a printed part that receives that many stress, that's why I ask.

[BigEvil]

:headbang:

Question: will the final product be a printed frame or is this a study for an aluminum milled product? I wonder about the strength of a printed part that receives that many stress, that's why I ask.


Just a concept right now.. if there is enough interest I can twist some arms and get something going. 45 version is also in the works. It would be one or the other.. most likely not both.

[Laku]

Well.. I'm pretty sure I could be convinced to get one with 90 grip. :D

[mpsd]

I love the current design and I believe I'll like it better than a 45. But that's just me.

Now, does it make it any stiffer to pull the trigger with the slight lower mounting position of the sear? Or isn't it any lower and my vision is somehow tricking me? :)

[BigEvil]

I love the current design and I believe I'll like it better than a 45. But that's just me.

Now, does it make it any stiffer to pull the trigger with the slight lower mounting position of the sear? Or isn't it any lower and my vision is somehow tricking me? :)


Still working out some kinks.. might add a little girth to the top to accurately recreate AGD specs on all the parts. This was originally created as an E-frame and then a mech when the UTB boards dried up.

[grub]

Will this/can this be made to come ready for drop in pneumatics? I have been waiting for an M90 frame but I love the look of this:clap:

-grub

[BigEvil]

Will this/can this be made to come ready for drop in pneumatics? I have been waiting for an M90 frame but I love the look of this:clap:

-grub

I think that would be the plan..

[Kory]

Very cool. In for info.
Kory

[BigEvil]

Just a heads up to everyone, this one would not be CHEAP. Especially if we add the M90 aspects.

[knownothingmags]

Just a heads up to everyone, this one would not be CHEAP. Especially if we add the M90 aspects.

I hear that.
I want some of em though..
just need to buy bodies for it.

[BigEvil]

I hear that.
I want some of em though..
just need to buy bodies for it.

I will be playing a pump game this weekend with a certain guy who can do stuff like that :)

[grub]

I think that would be the plan..

Well then count me in for the 50% off preorder ;)

-grub

[grub]

Just a heads up to everyone, this one would not be CHEAP. Especially if we add the M90 aspects.

Phew :eek:, glad I got in on the preorder ;)

-grub

[BigEvil]

Got some feelers out.... this would be a pre-order only. Would people be cool with that?

[Laku]

Got some feelers out.... this would be a pre-order only. Would people be cool with that?

Sure. That's fine with me.

[BTAutoMag]

I'll hit you up a little later today about this

[barkingspider]

With the m90 aspects I would be down for one.

[Patron God of Pirates]

First of all... Sweet! My 2 cents is to keep the "rail" section as small as possible while retaining the z-lock and foregrip mounting capacity. The coolness of this is it's potential to make Mags even smaller by eliminating the middle man and reducing the vertical profile. The ability to use DM grips would also be a plus.

Whichever way you go, props for doing it.

[mpsd]

Sorry to ask but I'm feeling a bit ignorant here: when you say "M90 aspects", what are you referring to?

[BigEvil]

Sorry to ask but I'm feeling a bit ignorant here: when you say "M90 aspects", what are you referring to?

The 'drop in pneumatic' set up.

[maverick13]

Great project

I like the look of the frame, a little less the foregrip's one but that's not a great issue as it's removable !

I think I'll be for one.

No problem for the "pre-order only". I only hope I won't miss it as I missed the M86 one !!!!

[BigEvil]

Ok, this is the direction Keith and I are going with this. I want to change the front grip mount so it is a slot like an RT rail and can accomodate a bunch of different things.

Side note - probably CAN NOT fit an LPR in here so we will put everything else but that.

http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc395/Cougar20th/Private/M45I_zpsf08b96f0.jpg

[maverick13]

I prefered the "airwalk" style of the first one !

[BigEvil]

I prefered the "airwalk" style of the first one !

Still debating... at least in the Airwalk/Angel style you can fit the LPR

[Laku]

I also liked more how the grip was rounded, graceful and seemed lighter in the first version.

[cougar20th]

Well as Scott eluded to. This is one of my dream builds. The files the printed prototype was made from go back to 2007-2008.

Frames will be Aluminum. Not printed.

The foregrip shown in the first pictures is a concept part. It will be changing some. I bought and sold a gun just so I could measure the foregrip that was on it. But you can always remove it and add your own.

The "45" style will be a complete remake on my end if theres enough interest. It was never finished.

[rukh013]

airwalk version looks great IMO, but could you open up the trigger area more, maybe 1/4 or 3/8" more???

[C_losjoker]

Very cool. Also like the first version, wonder how that would look with the back tail end curving down like a snatch grip?

[cougar20th]

Very cool. Also like the first version, wonder how that would look with the back tail end curving down like a snatch grip?

Can you show me a picture of what your thinking?

[Patron God of Pirates]

Operating under the totally false notion that we get a vote, I vote single trigger. These things have 'pistol' written all over them. Oh, and since you stole my idea before I had or posted my idea, I think I should get a free four of them. :D :D :D :P

Oh, and I like V2 better. Clean lines > ...

[Spiritchaser]

I might be interested in the airwalk style if it was suitable for drop in pneumatics and had a relatively open trigger guard

My wish list might put the parts out of my price range though

[cougar20th]

We are listening to suggestions. We will incorporate those that we think will help or are a good idea. But we wont be allowing committee design. It never works. Thats what happened to pnuemagger last time this frame idea came up 5+ years ago.

The design will have pnuematics mounts. They were taken out for the printed prototype to keep things simpler.

Triggerguards are compareable to intelliframes, airwalks, chimera & m90.

[rukh013]

...
Triggerguards are compareable to intelliframes, airwalks, chimera & m90.

DAMN i just like the extra room...

can't wait to see these

[C_losjoker]

Some like the ones below. But I think little maybe little more hook so you can let hang from your vest or belt.

[barkingspider]

I also like the first version! The airwalk look and the ability to mount a internal lpr are great features.

[vintage]

i'm a 1911 fan so the "45" is my preferred look. on a side note how did these style grip frames get call a 45 and not a 1911 which is what they are?

[grub]

I like the first version, I just never liked the look of the externally mounted LPR. Is the front grip going to be included or will it be optional?

-grub

[cougar20th]

Is the front grip going to be included or will it be optional?

-grub

That has yet to be discussed. It really comes down to how much extra is adds to the cost. Mostly because I see half the people not wanting one.

[Spiritchaser]

Would there be any possibility of discussing that trigger profile? While it is unique, that one would not be my preference.

The price of a different trigger probably won't be a deal breaker, but every bit counts...

[BigEvil]

Would there be any possibility of discussing that trigger profile? While it is unique, that one would not be my preference.

The price of a different trigger probably won't be a deal breaker, but every bit counts...

We are still discussing things, but Im pretty sure we could offer this with either a Magnus Talon or Sabre trigger. The one the printed model was just an idea that Keith wanted to see.

[cougar20th]

Scott is correct. The trigger is more of a fantasy part for me. I really wanted to know what it would be like. So why not do it as a printed prototype.
Thats a part I really don't see being made.

[BigEvil]

So, in regards to fitting an LPR in - the 45 frame version they wont fit, on the Angel/Airwalk style a tickler will fit as long as you flip the msv2 and cut the lever down. I don't see a micro rock fitting in there though...


Thoughts?

[Laku]

I would definitely like if it could be sleeper pneued. :)

[Patron God of Pirates]

So, in regards to fitting an LPR in - the 45 frame version they wont fit, on the Angel/Airwalk style a tickler will fit as long as you flip the msv2 and cut the lever down. I don't see a micro rock fitting in there though...
Thoughts?

I'm bias because I prefer the 45 style to begin with. To me, adding bulk (to make space for an LPR) seems contrary to profile reduction of an uni-frame. Maybe a channel in the rail section to allow for an integrated LPR/foregrip (like Luke is currently working on)?

[cougar20th]

I'm bias because I prefer the 45 style to begin with. To me, adding bulk (to make space for an LPR) seems contrary to profile reduction of an uni-frame. Maybe a channel in the rail section to allow for an integrated LPR/foregrip (like Luke is currently working on)?

I like this idea and will try to see what will work.....Ever try to fit 20 tons of crap into a 5 pound capacity box. Yup thats my job.

EDIT: It does not fit. Theres no room to get past the body mounting stud.

[knownothingmags]

I like this idea and will try to see what will work.....Ever try to fit 20 tons of crap into a 5 pound capacity box. Yup thats my job.

im down for a few as you already know.
know what you should do since you are doing so much already:D, design a body for this :D

[BigEvil]

im down for a few as you already know.
know what you should do since you are doing so much already:D, design a body for this :D


I know a guy in NJ...

[cougar20th]

im down for a few as you already know.
know what you should do since you are doing so much already:D, design a body for this :D

One step at at a time. Anyway one of the lathes is broken right now and the others busy.

[debruynda]

So, in regards to fitting an LPR in - the 45 frame version they wont fit, on the Angel/Airwalk style a tickler will fit as long as you flip the msv2 and cut the lever down. I don't see a micro rock fitting in there though...


Thoughts?

My immediate thought would be to machine an integral vert asa tapped on the sides for hoses and the front for a lpr. I would be cool, as long as you only planned on using a cp style screw in foregrip or a bike grip.

[Spider-TW]

Scott is correct. The trigger is more of a fantasy part for me. I really wanted to know what it would be like. So why not do it as a printed prototype.
Thats a part I really don't see being made.

What did you think of it? I always end up moving my fingers all over double length triggers, regardless of their shape.

[cougar20th]

My immediate thought would be to machine an integral vert asa tapped on the sides for hoses and the front for a lpr. I would be cool, as long as you only planned on using a cp style screw in foregrip or a bike grip.

Cant easily intergrate a vert ASA it would get in the way.

Theres still alot to this that you guys arent seeing.


What did you think of it? I always end up moving my fingers all over double length triggers, regardless of their shape.

Its interesting. But I feel it limits where you can put your fingers way to much. I find I never hold the upper part

[TimmyJay]

I would love to see a single trigger version. The McFly is a uniframe of sorts...

http://vid208.photobucket.com/albums/bb262/ddntim/McFy Mod Grip Frame/th_McFlyVideo_zpsb2555859.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/albums/bb262/ddntim/McFy Mod Grip Frame/?action=view&current=McFlyVideo_zpsb2555859.mp4)

[Patron God of Pirates]

I would love to see a single trigger version. The McFly is a uniframe of sorts.

The McFly is what led me to post this thread.

[cougar20th]

So even Scott doesn't know this yet.

But the bare airwalk style frame (not trigger, or screws) should weigh 0.40 pounds. The reworked foregrip (same idea but alot better) should weigh 0.15 pounds. A trigger should be right around 0.01 pounds. Grip panels will be 0.25 pounds for the pair. All out of 6061 Aluminum So total should be alittle more then 3/4 of a pound

Keep in mind these will change as I'm still designing and adjusting.

[wetwrks]

ok...you sucked me in. I am interrested.

[Spiritchaser]

Is it intended that the pneumag friendly features of the M86 frame be included?

[cougar20th]

Is it intended that the pneumag friendly features of the M86 frame be included?

Thats the plan and how I have the 3d cad files right now.

[Spiritchaser]

Foregrip notwithstanding I really want one. Are you batting around ideas for that grip?

[Patron God of Pirates]

I like this idea and will try to see what will work.....Ever try to fit 20 tons of crap into a 5 pound capacity box. Yup thats my job.

EDIT: It does not fit. Theres no room to get past the body mounting stud.

Looks like you need a bigger box ;)

[Nobody]

and know how you get a bigger box? you(yourself) throw money at it. most problems can be solved with mass quantities of money. like the old racing saying goes, you beat cubic inches with cubic dollars.

[knownothingmags]

and know how you get a bigger box? you(yourself) throw money at it. most problems can be solved with mass quantities of money. like the old racing saying goes, you beat cubic inches with cubic dollars.

I think I know this saying.
at least for the last 20 years :D

[knownothingmags]

Thats the plan and how I have the 3d cad files right now.

send me any thing you can ill print it.
since I have no access the to the file the least I can do is print them for you.
when you turn the files to STL please make the structure into as many triangles as possible.(your program should do this automatically) it helps refine the print.
I have learned my printer is capable of much more then most think.

your original uniframe could have been more refined in the STL file.
pm for more info.(it will be quick)

******(by no means do I expect you to release me a *modifiable file, keep the restrictions it insures trust :D)

[Patron God of Pirates]

and know how you get a bigger box? you(yourself) throw money at it. most problems can be solved with mass quantities of money. like the old racing saying goes, you beat cubic inches with cubic dollars.

I am planning on throwing some money at the finished product. I was just trying to propose a solution for the people looking for this to be sleeper-pnue compatible. I just want to see the project succeed so maybe we see more like it.

Again, props to all involved, if you build it they will come, shut up and take my money, etc. ;) ;) ;) ;)

[sjrtk]

Very interested in a airwalk style uniframe.

[cougar20th]

Very interested in a airwalk style uniframe.

Excellent. That is the desgn Ive decided on. Seems to be more interest in it.
Second prototype comes soon.

[C_losjoker]

Any thoughts of doing a snatch grip/ hook on the back tail of frame? Figured since the frame extends back and kind of comes down, it would add a nice look to it.


Excellent. That is the desgn Ive decided on. Seems to be more interest in it.
Second prototype comes soon.

[knownothingmags]

I think I can see the future, maybe even hold it in my hands.:cheers:

[river031403]

I'm definitely interested hope this keeps moving forward....

[cougar20th]

I'm definitely interested hope this keeps moving forward....

Its all moving forward. Pretty fast as well. Ive made alot of small and a couple large changes. Probably have spent another 20 hours tweaking this thing to perfection. The parts are out for qoute now. Then prototype and test. Then preorder and build.

The frame is now pnue compliant. Has a really cool custom trigger to go with it. Possibly a couple of options as well.

[barkingspider]

Its all moving forward. Pretty fast as well. Ive made alot of small and a couple large changes. Probably have spent another 20 hours tweaking this thing to perfection. The parts are out for qoute now. Then prototype and test. Then preorder and build.

The frame is now pnue compliant. Has a really cool custom trigger to go with it. Possibly a couple of options as well.

Pneu compliant......yeah. I bet you might have guessed my excitement.

[Laku]

Its all moving forward. Pretty fast as well. Ive made alot of small and a couple large changes. Probably have spent another 20 hours tweaking this thing to perfection. The parts are out for qoute now. Then prototype and test. Then preorder and build.

The frame is now pnue compliant. Has a really cool custom trigger to go with it. Possibly a couple of options as well.

You definitely got my interest! :)

[Kory]

Do you have a ballpark price yet?
It sounds like I might need one of these.
Kory

[C_losjoker]

Its all moving forward. Pretty fast as well. Ive made alot of small and a couple large changes. Probably have spent another 20 hours tweaking this thing to perfection. The parts are out for qoute now. Then prototype and test. Then preorder and build.

The frame is now pnue compliant. Has a really cool custom trigger to go with it. Possibly a couple of options as well.

Can you post what it looks like, even side views would be nice.

[cougar20th]

Do you have a ballpark price yet?
It sounds like I might need one of these.
Kory

I wont know costs until I get the quote back, figure out anodize cost, and screw cost. Im going to try to keep it as reasonable as possible.


I wont have pictures until the prototypes done. I feel my renderings show to much of my design right now. And I dont want someone copying it before I get it out.

[Kory]

That's understandable. i'll be looking forward to the finished product.

[grub]

...and screw cost. Im going to try to keep it as reasonable as possible.


I like your thinking:stick:;)

-grub

[cougar20th]

...and screw cost. Im going to try to keep it as reasonable as possible.


I like your thinking:stick:;)

-grub

Lol nice. At least i got the punctuation in the right place. Im sure you know what I mean.
Example. I ended up with a $75 order of screws and pins for the run of M86. But everythings stainless steel because the last thing I want on one of my frames is a rusted screw. So Im treating things as if they are for my personal guns.

[luke]

Stainless steel and aluminum are a big no-no when used together when water is added (most of us use water down to clean our markers). When moister is added it acts like an electrolyte and corrosion will happen. This will cause the screws to weld (used for the lack of a better word) themselves to the aluminum and can actually strip the threads in the aluminum when removing the screws. Yes of course this takes 'time' but generally you ALWAYS want to use anti-seize in this situation. ;)

Take a look at this list. The closer the better. The reactivity of the metals decreases the closer they are in the list.

Metal reactions list
--------------------------------------------
Magnesium
Mg alloy AZ-31B
Mg alloy HK-31A
Zinc (hot-dip, die cast, or plated)
Beryllium (hot pressed)
Al 7072 clad on 7075
Al 2014-T3
Al 1160-H14
Al 7079-T6
Cadmium (plated)
Uranium
Al 218 (die cast)
Al 5052-0
Al 5052-H12
Al 5456-0, H353
Al 5052-H32
Al 1100-0
Al 3003-H25
Al 6061-T6
Al A360 (die cast)
Al 7075-T6
Al 6061-0
Indium
Al 2014-0
Al 2024-T4
Al 5052-H16
Tin (plated)
Stainless steel 430 (active)
Lead
Steel 1010
Iron (cast)
Copper (plated, cast, or wrought)
Nickel (plated)
Chromium (Plated)
Tantalum
AM350 (active)
Stainless steel 310 (active)
Stainless steel 301 (active)
Stainless steel 304 (active)
Stainless steel 430 (active)
Stainless steel 410 (active)
Stainless steel 17-7PH (active)
Tungsten
Niobium (columbium) 1% Zr
Brass, Yellow, 268
Uranium 8% Mo.
Brass, Naval, 464
Yellow Brass
Muntz Metal 280
Brass (plated)
Nickel-silver (18% Ni)
Stainless steel 316L (active)
Bronze 220
Copper 110
Red Brass
Stainless steel 347 (active)
Molybdenum, Commercial pure
Copper-nickel 715
Admiralty brass
Stainless steel 202 (active)
Bronze, Phosphor 534 (B-1)
Monel 400
Stainless steel 201 (active)
Carpenter 20 (active)
Stainless steel 321 (active)
Stainless steel 316 (active)
Stainless steel 309 (active)
Stainless steel 17-7PH (passive)
Silicone Bronze 655
Stainless steel 304 (passive)
Stainless steel 301 (passive)
Stainless steel 321 (passive)
Stainless steel 201 (passive)
Stainless steel 286 (passive)
Stainless steel 316L (passive)
AM355 (active)
Stainless steel 202 (passive)
Carpenter 20 (passive)
AM355 (passive)
A286 (passive)
Titanium 5A1, 2.5 Sn
Titanium 13V, 11Cr, 3Al (annealed)
Titanium 6Al, 4V (solution treated and aged)
Titanium 6Al, 4V (anneal)
Titanium 8Mn
Titanium 13V, 11Cr 3Al (solution heat treated and aged)
Titanium 75A
AM350 (passive)
Silver
Gold
Graphite

[knownothingmags]

Stainless steel and aluminum are a big no-no when used together when water is added (most of us use water down to clean our markers). When moister is added it acts like an electrolyte and corrosion will happen. This will cause the screws to weld (used for the lack of a better word) themselves to the aluminum and can actually strip the threads in the aluminum when removing the screws. Yes of course this takes 'time' but generally you ALWAYS want to use anti-seize in this situation. ;)

Take a look at this list. The closer the better. The reactivity of the metals decreases the closer they are in the list.

Metal reactions list
--------------------------------------------
Magnesium
Mg alloy AZ-31B
Mg alloy HK-31A
Zinc (hot-dip, die cast, or plated)
Beryllium (hot pressed)
Al 7072 clad on 7075
Al 2014-T3
Al 1160-H14
Al 7079-T6
Cadmium (plated)
Uranium
Al 218 (die cast)
Al 5052-0
Al 5052-H12
Al 5456-0, H353
Al 5052-H32
Al 1100-0
Al 3003-H25
Al 6061-T6
Al A360 (die cast)
Al 7075-T6
Al 6061-0
Indium
Al 2014-0
Al 2024-T4
Al 5052-H16
Tin (plated)
Stainless steel 430 (active)
Lead
Steel 1010
Iron (cast)
Copper (plated, cast, or wrought)
Nickel (plated)
Chromium (Plated)
Tantalum
AM350 (active)
Stainless steel 310 (active)
Stainless steel 301 (active)
Stainless steel 304 (active)
Stainless steel 430 (active)
Stainless steel 410 (active)
Stainless steel 17-7PH (active)
Tungsten
Niobium (columbium) 1% Zr
Brass, Yellow, 268
Uranium 8% Mo.
Brass, Naval, 464
Yellow Brass
Muntz Metal 280
Brass (plated)
Nickel-silver (18% Ni)
Stainless steel 316L (active)
Bronze 220
Copper 110
Red Brass
Stainless steel 347 (active)
Molybdenum, Commercial pure
Copper-nickel 715
Admiralty brass
Stainless steel 202 (active)
Bronze, Phosphor 534 (B-1)
Monel 400
Stainless steel 201 (active)
Carpenter 20 (active)
Stainless steel 321 (active)
Stainless steel 316 (active)
Stainless steel 309 (active)
Stainless steel 17-7PH (passive)
Silicone Bronze 655
Stainless steel 304 (passive)
Stainless steel 301 (passive)
Stainless steel 321 (passive)
Stainless steel 201 (passive)
Stainless steel 286 (passive)
Stainless steel 316L (passive)
AM355 (active)
Stainless steel 202 (passive)
Carpenter 20 (passive)
AM355 (passive)
A286 (passive)
Titanium 5A1, 2.5 Sn
Titanium 13V, 11Cr, 3Al (annealed)
Titanium 6Al, 4V (solution treated and aged)
Titanium 6Al, 4V (anneal)
Titanium 8Mn
Titanium 13V, 11Cr 3Al (solution heat treated and aged)
Titanium 75A
AM350 (passive)
Silver
Gold
Graphite

looks like you should make parts from gold and use graphite for the screws :D

[Patron God of Pirates]

Uranium with Cadmium plated screws?

[luke]

Or just use http://images.oreillyauto.com/parts/img/medium/per/per_81343.jpg ;)

[knownothingmags]

Or just use http://images.oreillyauto.com/parts/img/medium/per/per_81343.jpg ;)

so we should be using ati seize on our screws is what you are saying?
I got off subject on my last post.
if so then im set. navy has a non stop supply of this stuff.

[river031403]

Or just use http://images.oreillyauto.com/parts/img/medium/per/per_81343.jpg ;)

I use dow33 cuz that's what I have laying around

[luke]

so we should be using ati seize on our screws is what you are saying?


Yes, you should use anti seize with with ss and aluminum, paintball markers or anything for that matter especially if it will be a long term connection. I also use it on the AGD regulator spring packs.

[Nobody]

i am a firm believer of SS screws, but when you are talking about reactivity, are you talking bare aluminium and stainless or does the anno help at all? but anti-seize of any sort will help. i, for one, work on guns for people and RED LOCTITE is not an anti-seize and should never be used in paintball.

[Spiritchaser]

Anno will help some but it's not the right answer on its own. At work we have a few rules based on environment. This ranges widely from exposed decks where we go with conversion coated Al with stainless helicoils which have been wet assembled with a zinc rich primer, fasteners installed into coils with marine grade antiseize. Inside vessel in a "controlled" environment: wet assembly of stainless fasteners directly into annodized Al is acceptable with the right compound. There are lots of options in between too.

We use the Henkel stuff (yup , loc tite branded) and it does let you get away with a lot... It's pretty good stuff.

Keep in mind that it will change the installation torques of fasteners.

EDIT: might also be worth noting that carbon steel into al isn't exactly optimal either

[cougar20th]

Finally got some renderings with grip panels. Also shows the new trigger.

Scott(BigEvil) is gonna be testing the prototype for me. All I have is S/S bodied mags.

Also named the frame.
KAM Designs, Demon Series K45AI

First is with the custom fore-grip. Ive lightened that up so its not as "heavy" feeling.
http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc395/Cougar20th/Private/K45AIBlue2_zpseb0cfb45.jpg

Second is showing the optional Vert asa and a Benchmark ASA gas thru fore-grip. I should have a very limited number of benchmark fore-grips to sell with the frames.
The frame is slotted so you can add whatever fore-grip you want if desired.
http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc395/Cougar20th/Private/K45AIBlue_zps529dfc9f.jpg

Aluminum parts for the Custom Foregrip variant equals right around 5/8 of a pound for weight. Its about as light as it can do. Plenty of internal milling and weight removal everywhere. That weight does not include any hardware (screws, sear, pins)

[debruynda]

That's nashtee Keith...nashtee

[Laku]

Me likey! I'm definitely in for one without the custom fore grip. :D

[luke]

Looks good, I think you nailed. :cool:

[river031403]

I like both.
As far as mounting the optional vert asa does it pinch the rail then bolt up as the old style does from the top?
And if so couldn't you do the same with the custom vert grip?
ANY HOW great looking uniframe

[cougar20th]

I like both.
As far as mounting the optional vert asa does it pinch the rail then bolt up as the old style does from the top?
And if so couldn't you do the same with the custom vert grip?
ANY HOW great looking uniframe

Bolting the vert asa is from the top of the rail down into threaded holes on the asa. Same idea as the bike grips on a RT mag.

[Xmagterror]

Bolting the vert asa is from the top of the rail down into threaded holes on the asa. Same idea as the bike grips on a RT mag.

Nice! AM/MM style sear pin?

[BigEvil]

Nice! AM/MM style sear pin?


nope

[cougar20th]

Nice! AM/MM style sear pin?

Tryed a am/mm style with less then perfect results. This is gonna be a modified (shortened) RT pin. One will come with the frames when I sell them.

[river031403]

Bolting the vert asa is from the top of the rail down into threaded holes on the asa. Same idea as the bike grips on a RT mag.

^^i thought so.
So couldn't you do the other one in pic#1 the same way?

[maverick13]

Wonderfull !

I like both.

I'll take one for sure !

The most difficult will be to choose which one !

[cougar20th]

^^i thought so.
So couldn't you do the other one in pic#1 the same way?

It does bolt the same way. Just wraps the front of the frame to give a more complete part.


Wonderfull !
The most difficult will be to choose which one !

Why chose one. Just buy all the parts. That way you can swap them to whatever you want.

Once Scott(BigEvil) signs off on the prototype being perfect I will start a pre-order. Still gotta figure out a pricing structure because I can see already that everyone's gonna want a different set of parts.

[river031403]

[QUOTE=cougar20th;2851013]It does bolt the same way. Just wraps the front of the frame to give a more complete part.

Cool just had to clarify for the masses.
Great design!

[BigEvil]

:)

Can't wait to get this project done and then on to the next.

[cougar20th]

:)

Can't wait to get this project done and then on to the next.
How do you know whats next if I don't even know whats next....Can I hibernate for the rest of winter?


And for fun. Some extra renderings. This will give you guys a idea of how they will look on a gun.
Once I get the prototype Ill have pictures.

http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc395/Cougar20th/Private/KAMDesignsDEMONSERIESK45AIMinimag_zps7a72404c.jpg

http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc395/Cougar20th/Private/KAMDesignsDEMONSERIESK45AIMinimag2_zps43c309f8.jpg

[Nobody]

i like the longer PTP gas through design. it offers the air inlet at a level to the ASA, so there are no major bends or kinks, which i like. its that linear approach, and makes it have cleaner lines and moves the macroline away from where your hand can go or grab at it. nice work. i'm sure that when Scott gets it, i'll have some trigger time with it.

[maverick13]

Why chose one. Just buy all the parts. That way you can swap them to whatever you want.


If it's possible to get one frame and the 2 fg, it's certainly what I'll do !!

[Patron God of Pirates]

The first design (with your foregrip) is A-W-S-O-M-E!
Go ahead and put my name on the pre-order.

[cougar20th]

Crappy rendering but each ones taken me 1/2-3/4 hour to do and I dont have the time right now.

This is the frame with the Benchmark foregrip removed. (I only have a small number of foregrips available). Anyway the Vert asa is made so any gas thru foregrip/reg/expansion chamber will thread into it. A tank how ever will not as there is no pin to depress the tank valve. Hmm gotta look into that.

http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc395/Cougar20th/Private/KAMDesignsDEMONSERIESK45AI3_zps29f0bc64.jpg

[Spiritchaser]

That foregrip wouldn't happen to be reversible would it?

That thing turned around with the finger ridges cleaned off would be perfection

[maverick13]

For me it will definetely be custom foregrip + vert asa + benchmark fg !!!!!

[OPBN]

To be blunt, I hate the foregrip as much as I love the frame. As with everything... depending on cost...

[knownothingmags]

Crappy rendering but each ones taken me 1/2-3/4 hour to do and I dont have the time right now.

This is the frame with the Benchmark foregrip removed. (I only have a small number of foregrips available). Anyway the Vert asa is made so any gas thru foregrip/reg/expansion chamber will thread into it. A tank how ever will not as there is no pin to depress the tank valve. Hmm gotta look into that.

http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc395/Cougar20th/Private/KAMDesignsDEMONSERIESK45AI3_zps29f0bc64.jpg

these have been fun items to work on.
thankyou again.

[bbotts77]

Pending price, I would probably be interested in one with the vert ASA. I like the flexibility of it.

[debruynda]

Your timing on this is impeccable too...right around tax return time:) I can see one of these going with one of XMT's carbon fiber bodies for a ridiculously light mag setup.

[knownothingmags]

Your timing on this is impeccable too...right around tax return time:) I can see one of these going with one of XMT's carbon fiber bodies for a ridiculously light mag setup.

yeah.:ninja:

[cougar20th]

To be blunt, I hate the foregrip as much as I love the frame. As with everything... depending on cost...
Thank you. I can understand that. Does the VA seem to be ok?


Your timing on this is impeccable too...right around tax return time:) I can see one of these going with one of XMT's carbon fiber bodies for a ridiculously light mag setup.

Never even thought about it being that time of year.

[BTAutoMag]

Crappy rendering but each ones taken me 1/2-3/4 hour to do and I dont have the time right now.

This is the frame with the Benchmark foregrip removed. (I only have a small number of foregrips available). Anyway the Vert asa is made so any gas thru foregrip/reg/expansion chamber will thread into it. A tank how ever will not as there is no pin to depress the tank valve. Hmm gotta look into that.

http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc395/Cougar20th/Private/KAMDesignsDEMONSERIESK45AI3_zps29f0bc64.jpg



that doesnt look like a XMT body... what are you planning here ;)

[cougar20th]

that doesnt look like a XMT body... what are you planning here ;)

Its not a XMT body. The body in the rendering is a abandoned project. I was working on designing a ULE Minimag body. Then XMT came out with his first. So I stopped. No need for 2 of them on the market. It would only hurt sales of both.

[BTAutoMag]

^respect^

[cougar20th]

Its really simple if I wouldn't want it to happen to me I wont do it to others.

Example: I have had not one but two other people copy one of my designs. With minor changes of course. One of them even had enough gaul to hint that his was the original. If he had simply asked I probably would have said he could. As much as people say mimicry is flattery it does not flatter me to have my stuff copied so I refuse to do that to others.

[El Zilcho]

Its really simple if I wouldn't want it to happen to me I wont do it to others.

Example: I have had not one but two other people copy one of my designs. With minor changes of course. One of them even had enough gaul to hint that his was the original. If he had simply asked I probably would have said he could. As much as people say mimicry is flattery it does not flatter me to have my stuff copied so I refuse to do that to others.
Name names damn it :)

Is there a hole or a slot for the forgrip mounting screws? I was thinking that a slot would allow a little freedom to adjust the setup longer or shorter depending on a users preferences. Just a thought.

[OPBN]

Thank you. I can understand that. Does the VA seem to be ok?


Sorry, I realized my comment was pretty douchey. The foregrip isn't my taste, but seems like several like it, so **** me. I do like the VA style. This would look nice with a CP or RPG style gas through on it. Or maybe using an HPR as an LPR for a pnue set up.

[cougar20th]

Name names damn it :)

Is there a hole or a slot for the forgrip mounting screws? I was thinking that a slot would allow a little freedom to adjust the setup longer or shorter depending on a users preferences. Just a thought.

Not gonna name anyone. It wouldn't help anything.

There is a slot for the for the foregrip mounting.
Only rendering I have that shows it is a very old one.
http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc395/Cougar20th/Private/magnuse45aifront2_zps5b24a416.jpg
Note: frame mounting screw is no longer recessed. Yea you can do it the way I show it but its expensive.

[cougar20th]

Sorry, I realized my comment was pretty douchey. The foregrip isn't my taste, but seems like several like it, so **** me. I do like the VA style. This would look nice with a CP or RPG style gas through on it. Or maybe using an HPR as an LPR for a pnue set up.

I think you have it wrong. I really like that you told it the way it is. Often to many people just say "thats nice"

[rukh013]

http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc395/Cougar20th/Private/magnuse45aifront2_zps5b24a416.jpg

I spy a microswitch!!! would this frame fit a 9V and a currently available board? maybe the new DNA board

[cougar20th]

I spy a microswitch!!! would this frame fit a 9V and a currently available board? maybe the new DNA board

Thats a very old design. There will be no microswitch. This was originally designed as a eframe (in 2008) but with the lack of boards at the time it was abandoned.
It may be revisited some time in the future. Not sure. It would be a 500$ + frame as a electro (best guess). It was based on the hyperframe/VER setup. And Im not sure theres a market for that expensive a frame

[El Zilcho]

Not gonna name anyone. It wouldn't help anything.

I knew you wouldn't, I was just being a jerk.

[rukh013]

Thats a very old design. There will be no microswitch. This was originally designed as a eframe (in 2008) but with the lack of boards at the time it was abandoned.
It may be revisited some time in the future. Not sure. It would be a 500$ + frame as a electro (best guess). It was based on the hyperframe/VER setup. And Im not sure theres a market for that expensive a frame




Someone should design a frame that uses the readily available stock PMR board..... Someone...... oneday.....

[BLachance75]

Does the OD of the VASA match the OD of the top of a bike grip

[cougar20th]

Someone should design a frame that uses the readily available stock PMR board..... Someone...... oneday.....

I know what your saying. Eframes are tricky, You start with a frame cost then add $200 (a guess) in electronics to it.Then assembly time/cost.

Example would be the M86 I just did and am going to finish up before the uniframe ever gets to preorder. If I were to offer a "E" version which Im not. The final price would be in the 475$ range. Not inluding my time wiring or that I would need to go out and buy all the tools to wire the thing.

Beacise of the price required you quickly price yourself out of the market.

[cougar20th]

Does the OD of the VASA match the OD of the top of a bike grip

Do you know what the od of a bike grip is at the top. Right now the VASA is 1" OD

[bbotts77]

Any chance you would make an "insert" to go between the frame and RT foregrip to make RT style foregrips look a little less awkward on them? I love my DW CF foregrip. Make the insert like the VASA, but without the threaded portion and a slot wide enough for RT-style foregrip mounting screws (or two holes, but a slot is probably easier).

[cougar20th]

Any chance you would make an "insert" to go between the frame and RT foregrip to make RT style foregrips look a little less awkward on them? I love my DW CF foregrip. Make the insert like the VASA, but without the threaded portion and a slot wide enough for RT-style foregrip mounting screws (or two holes, but a slot is probably easier).

Its all numbers. I would have to make a certain amount to hit minimums. But I would have to sell them at a high price per part because I likely wouldn't sell them all.

If there was enough interest in that Yes I can make it. But it would probably be better for someone like Luke to make for the amount of interest.

[Syko89]

Just a thought but any way to make the vert asa adjustable so that you can adjust the angle

[bbotts77]

Its all numbers. I would have to make a certain amount to hit minimums. But I would have to sell them at a high price per part because I likely wouldn't sell them all.

If there was enough interest in that Yes I can make it. But it would probably be better for someone like Luke to make for the amount of interest.
That makes sense. I could always have something printed out of plastic, since it would be purely cosmetic and not structural.

[cougar20th]

If you guys want a angled one or something like a RT one I can modify my CAD. I can check with my plastics guy to see if he would want to make these parts.

[maverick13]

On my side the original design is perfect (or almost prefect).

I don't like angled foregrip it's not natural for my hands, I've only one on my toxic/airwalk mag and it's only for the "look".
Usually I like the RT foregrips but on this specific projet, I fear it would be too fat regarding the slim line of the "rail".

But, that's just my thought.

[knownothingmags]

I can make these parts for you if you are not going to put air through them.
pm me anyone interested and we can talk.

ill need to get the file and test print. and see how it comes out and such.
but if its anything like the one I just do we should be good.

pm me if you have interest in this.

[cougar20th]

To clarify knownothingmags is referring to Foregrip adapters. I can CAD them up when I have time.

[knownothingmags]

To clarify knownothingmags is referring to Foregrip adapters. I can CAD them up when I have time.

yes this only, just the Foregrip adapters.

[need4reebs]

any chance you could do the internal LPR like the G-force frames…that gives you more room in the frame?

[Spiritchaser]

Price pending of course, I'd want a modified handgrip if you'd consider doing one for me. Failing that, I'd want an asa adaptor. I've no interest in the benchmark.

Man I hope we get our bonus this year

You once mentioned that talon triggers might be an option. Is that still likely, or would that now be too many choices?

[cougar20th]

any chance you could do the internal LPR like the G-force frames…that gives you more room in the frame?

Ill be honest I'm unfamiliar with the workings of the G force frames.



Price pending of course, I'd want a modified handgrip if you'd consider doing one for me. Failing that, I'd want an asa adaptor. I've no interest in the benchmark.

Man I hope we get our bonus this year

You once mentioned that talon triggers might be an option. Is that still likely, or would that now be too many choices?

One off parts will incure a small design fee, and will not be Aluminum they will be printed plastic by knownothing mags. He has final say on part price and timeframe.

I'm thinking at this point I would rather use a trigger of my own design then outsource the parts.

[Engineer86]

I was looking through this thread and i use a company called solid concepts ( http://www.solidconcepts.com )to print metal parts all the time you are limited to Stainless Steel Inconel and Titanium, but if you want them to do some finish machining to a cad file or drawing they can do that to. If you are looking at their services and want info on metal printing look for their DMLS product (Direct Metal Laser Sintering). they usually turn plastic parts around for me at work in 1 day and metal parts are usually only a week and their prices are very reasonable for small projects. good luck with this project.

[knownothingmags]

I was looking through this thread and i use a company called solid concepts ( http://www.solidconcepts.com )to print metal parts all the time you are limited to Stainless Steel Inconel and Titanium, but if you want them to do some finish machining to a cad file or drawing they can do that to. If you are looking at their services and want info on metal printing look for their DMLS product (Direct Metal Laser Sintering). they usually turn plastic parts around for me at work in 1 day and metal parts are usually only a week and their prices are very reasonable for small projects. good luck with this project.

thanks for the vote of confidence. :thefinger:

[maverick13]

Nothing new about this project ?

[cougar20th]

With Knownothings situation its been slightly delayed. He is making me the test prototype.

Once I have that there will be some pictures of the prototype then testing. There is just enough changes that I want to make sure it works perfectly before opening a pre-order. Scott (BigEvil) is doing the testing and he has no problems telling me if it sucks or not.

Sorry for the delays.

[maverick13]

Don't be sorry for that, there's no hurry ! I was just coming to the news !

KNM has to recover health first, that's the most important.

Take all the time you need for testing, that's the waranty to get a nice and perfectly working frame

[knownothingmags]

im sending the stuff to you today keith,
email me you addy again, I have it but not sure if ill find it.

I hope the finish on the parts is what you were asking for if not I can do it again.
but they came out great.
I think they are Purdy.:D

[cougar20th]

im sending the stuff to you today keith,
email me you addy again, I have it but not sure if ill find it.

I hope the finish on the parts is what you were asking for if not I can do it again.
but they came out great.
I think they are Purdy.:D

Thanks. Make sure its not gonna be a issue for you to get them out. I can wait if your not up to it.

Im sure whatever finish you managed is fine. Im only checking function. I only wanted pretty for the pictures and Im sure everyone here will understand if something not perfect looking.

[Patron God of Pirates]

couger, I just want to confirm that this run is reasonably definite (presuming that the testing works out and you can fill a pre-order). I'm planning a build around it that includes XMT's CF main body. So I wanted to check the status of this before I got on that pre order. Also, do you have a final plan for the foregrip?

While I'm blabbering, you are in NH correct? If you need an RTP or X-Valve platform to test these on I can lend you one (I'm in MA). I don't want to step on BE's toes, but it might be easier than shipping back on forth to Jersey.

LMK.

[cougar20th]

couger, I just want to confirm that this run is reasonably definite (presuming that the testing works out and you can fill a pre-order). I'm planning a build around it that includes XMT's CF main body. So I wanted to check the status of this before I got on that pre order. Also, do you have a final plan for the foregrip?

While I'm blabbering, you are in NH correct? If you need an RTP or X-Valve platform to test these on I can lend you one (I'm in MA). I don't want to step on BE's toes, but it might be easier than shipping back on forth to Jersey.

LMK.

As long as testing turns out good and a preorder can be filled. At this point I think I will need 15 ordered.

I appreciate the offer for testing but I rather use BigEvil for testing. With his knowledge he can spot a problem really quick.

[maverick13]

I'll be for one, sure, I've the same project as PGOP with the XMT CF body (I already ordered mine ! ) !!!!!

[cougar20th]

Also, do you have a final plan for the foregrip?

Sorry missed this. The I have a new version of the original foregrip. Much better.

I also have a VA that will accept any standard asa threaded foregrip. I have a very limited supply of Benchmark foregrips I plan to offer if they come apart nicely.

There will be a fairly complex options/pricing sturcture for these so those that want certain parts can get what they want.

[Spiritchaser]

Forgive me if this has already been answered but: the hole behind the trigger; is that for a pneumag MSV-2 actuation rod?

[cougar20th]

Forgive me if this has already been answered but: the hole behind the trigger; is that for a pneumag MSV-2 actuation rod?

Correct the 1/8" hole is for the actuator rod

[robertreed711]

Maybe I am alone in this but I would like the foregrip mounting area to be as wide as a standard rail so that other foregrip options are more compatible. Imagine trying to put a DW CF grip on it or something like an RPG stick grip. They would look out of place on that skinny rail.

Just my $.02

[knownothingmags]

Maybe I am alone in this but I would like the foregrip mounting area to be as wide as a standard rail so that other foregrip options are more compatible. Imagine trying to put a DW CF grip on it or something like an RPG stick grip. They would look out of place on that skinny rail.

Just my $.02
it sure would,
but that's why I can,
if I get enough interest to print stuff up for you to put those types of things on that rail so it doesn't look to out of place
but im sure cougar20th with go into that some more.

no air option though on my parts

[cougar20th]

Maybe I am alone in this but I would like the foregrip mounting area to be as wide as a standard rail so that other foregrip options are more compatible. Imagine trying to put a DW CF grip on it or something like an RPG stick grip. They would look out of place on that skinny rail.

Just my $.02


To go with a va area that wide I would need to start with a chunk approxamitly 1 1/4" thick. Most of that would get milled down to 3/4" thick. Some smaller. The cost of the material is a issue. But the cost to cut it dowb is more of a issue. Machine times not cheap.

The other reason it was done thin was because the design is to eliminate the rail. To have a small wide rail in the front wouldnt accomplish that.

If its something that got enough interst i can design a adapter and KNM can print the for people. Ive already descussed that with him am he is willing to do it. He will not print anything intended to hold pressure.

[knownothingmags]

To go with a va area that wide I would need to start with a chunk approxamitly 1 1/4" thick. Most of that would get milled down to 3/4" thick. Some smaller. The cost of the material is a issue. But the cost to cut it dowb is more of a issue. Machine times not cheap.

The other reason it was done thin was because the design is to eliminate the rail. To have a small wide rail in the front wouldnt accomplish that.

If its something that got enough interst i can design a adapter and KNM can print the for people. Ive already descussed that with him am he is willing to do it. He will not print anything intended to hold pressure.

you are the man :dance:

[TimmyJay]

Make sure it is wide enough to cover the boss area around the front screw hole on the ULE bodies.

[knownothingmags]

Make sure it is wide enough to cover the boss area around the front screw hole on the ULE bodies.

lol you are telling him how to design stuff.:rofl:
just messin, he has it covered trust me.

[TimmyJay]

Just didn't know what bodies it would be tested with and they all seem to have different cuts leaving a potential for a gap. It is less noticable with the standard feed ULE, but this was the only picture I had handy.

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb262/ddntim/DSC_1210_zpse487e9c2.jpg

[Levi]

Make sure it is wide enough to cover the boss area around the front screw hole on the ULE bodies.

Just pulled apart a couple mags to compare, and wow! I never realized there was such a difference between the vert and warp bodies.


http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s588/SidedraftDats/Thread%20Pics%20No%20Delete/WarpVSVert_zpsaf6e15ee.jpg (http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/SidedraftDats/media/Thread%20Pics%20No%20Delete/WarpVSVert_zpsaf6e15ee.jpg.html)

[cougar20th]

Its designed to cover both those areas. That is part of what bigevil will be checking for. Ive mounted both a ripper & phoenix on proto #1 and other than me bresking it the mounting areas were covered.

For mounting a wzarp body onto the Demon frame im sure youwill have to trim link you do a rail.

[cougar20th]

Sitting here waiting for the prototype to arrive while it bounces around all the usps sort facilitys in the area.

Once it arrives (I hope tomorrow) I will spend the time this weekend to get it ready to head off to BigE on monday for testing.

[BigEvil]

YAY! I get to break things!!

[debruynda]

YAY! I get to break things!!

Any chance of getting you to take a picture of it mounted all up on a marker?

[robertreed711]

any chance of getting you to take a picture of it mounted all up on a marker?

x10

[BigEvil]

Like you guys even had to ask?

[maverick13]

Here are goog news !

[knownothingmags]

Sitting here waiting for the prototype to arrive while it bounces around all the usps sort facilitys in the area.

Once it arrives (I hope tomorrow) I will spend the time this weekend to get it ready to head off to BigE on monday for testing.

I hope you like it please email me with anything you don't like,
I need to learn,
and can explain other stuff that im sure will arise.

same for you Big E, I figure cougar20th will relay your report.
hope you like the grip panels:D. I like how smooth I got em, I can tweek them if that is a future thing;)

[Nobody]

cool, we can have it for the 1st, and then pass it around like a $5 whore at the birthday game.

[debruynda]

Like you guys even had to ask?

Man crush.

[cougar20th]

Recieved the prototype along with some other stuff. I will be threading it this weekend and get some pictures. And then shipping to the most evil one.

[river031403]

:clap:

[yellowmitten]

So impatient, I wanna see pics

[cougar20th]

So impatient, I wanna see pics

Pictures wont be until Sunday. Thats the only time between now and Monday that I may have alittle free time. Maybe. Snows melting :) probelm is its melting way to fast for my comfort level. So I may be dealing with water this weekend.

The cool thing is that the prototype has already shown a minor thing that needs adjustment. I had figured it would need adjustment even before having the prototype made. And Ive already figured out how to correct the issue and still keep everything safe for the end user.

[knownothingmags]

Pictures wont be until Sunday. Thats the only time between now and Monday that I may have alittle free time. Maybe. Snows melting :) probelm is its melting way to fast for my comfort level. So I may be dealing with water this weekend.

The cool thing is that the prototype has already shown a minor thing that needs adjustment. I had figured it would need adjustment even before having the prototype made. And Ive already figured out how to correct the issue and still keep everything safe for the end user.
that's good,
get that water out, you guys have sumps?

[cougar20th]

that's good,
get that water out, you guys have sumps?

oh yea, they are a must have. The house stays dry. Gonna see how the new garage does.

[cougar20th]

Far from a great picture but its all Ive got.

For this prototype I had the Foregrip mount printed seperate for ease of testing. Its a non functional area anyway. You can see the VA below the frame.
http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc395/Cougar20th/Private/P1010298_zpsfd9bb129.jpg

[bbotts77]

Far from a great picture but its all Ive got.

For this prototype I had the Foregrip mount printed seperate for ease of testing. Its a non functional area anyway. You can see the VA below the frame.
(sweet picture)
This looks awesome. I can't wait to read about testing.

[Spiritchaser]

I really want to turn that grip around and remove the finger grooves

I understand that you don't want even more configurations for your machined part, but would you consider shipping the grip raw? I could file off the grooves and extend that top slot without stripping...

[cougar20th]

I really want to turn that grip around and remove the finger grooves

I understand that you don't want even more configurations for your machined part, but would you consider shipping the grip raw? I could file off the grooves and extend that top slot without stripping...

Yea I can ship parts raw. Thats not a problem.

You are right. I just cant have every imaginable configuration. I wouldnt be able to make them at that point because of the costs.

[knownothingmags]

Far from a great picture but its all Ive got.

For this prototype I had the Foregrip mount printed seperate for ease of testing. Its a non functional area anyway. You can see the VA below the frame.
http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc395/Cougar20th/Private/P1010298_zpsfd9bb129.jpg

yeesh ,:vomit:

I like it. lol
if you want I can post the pics I have or I can send them to you and you can approve them.
they really aren't any better they are so gloss my pics outside just were hard to take.

[cougar20th]

yeesh ,:vomit:

I like it. lol
if you want I can post the pics I have or I can send them to you and you can approve them.
they really aren't any better they are so gloss my pics outside just were hard to take.

Ryan,

Go ahead.

[BigEvil]

It doesnt work... sorry..




all mine :)

[cougar20th]

It doesnt work... sorry..




all mine :)

Its gonna ship to you tomorrow or wednesday.

[maverick13]

I like it !

[debruynda]

far from a great picture but its all ive got.

For this prototype i had the foregrip mount printed seperate for ease of testing. Its a non functional area anyway. You can see the va below the frame.
http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc395/cougar20th/private/p1010298_zpsfd9bb129.jpg

yes!

[Spiritchaser]

I'm going to have to think about putting a cover on that front grip

[Spider-TW]

I'm going to have to think about putting a cover on that front grip

Or print a tiki doll foregrip, if you like.

[Spiritchaser]

It's hard enough to keep my kids from playing with MY toys, and I've negotiated my daughters first marker for her eighth birthday if she shows any interest... But not before.

[knownothingmags]

got em. one sec
http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx60/thetoolishere/Untitledxx_zpsb3fd2a89.png (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/thetoolishere/media/Untitledxx_zpsb3fd2a89.png.html)
http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx60/thetoolishere/Untitled9_zps87699271.png (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/thetoolishere/media/Untitled9_zps87699271.png.html)
http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx60/thetoolishere/Untitled8_zps2d4902ea.png (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/thetoolishere/media/Untitled8_zps2d4902ea.png.html)
http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx60/thetoolishere/Untitled7_zps702430e9.png (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/thetoolishere/media/Untitled7_zps702430e9.png.html)
http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx60/thetoolishere/Untitled6_zps626ab1a9.png (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/thetoolishere/media/Untitled6_zps626ab1a9.png.html)
http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx60/thetoolishere/Untitled5_zpsec50efb4.png (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/thetoolishere/media/Untitled5_zpsec50efb4.png.html)
http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx60/thetoolishere/Untitled4_zps4334d288.png (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/thetoolishere/media/Untitled4_zps4334d288.png.html)
http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx60/thetoolishere/Untitled3_zps0becbc71.png (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/thetoolishere/media/Untitled3_zps0becbc71.png.html)
http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx60/thetoolishere/Untitled2x_zpsb7007ea5.png (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/thetoolishere/media/Untitled2x_zpsb7007ea5.png.html)

[knownothingmags]

It doesnt work... sorry..




all mine :)
you cant do worse then my prototype end test. lol
unmeasured pressure test. I hit it with a hammer to see how the layer splits.:p
then all stuff that isn't good gets shredded and scraped, garbage.
dot have the facility to recycle my print scrap.:(

[need4reebs]

got em. one sec
http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx60/thetoolishere/Untitledxx_zpsb3fd2a89.png (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/thetoolishere/media/Untitledxx_zpsb3fd2a89.png.html)
http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx60/thetoolishere/Untitled9_zps87699271.png (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/thetoolishere/media/Untitled9_zps87699271.png.html)
http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx60/thetoolishere/Untitled8_zps2d4902ea.png (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/thetoolishere/media/Untitled8_zps2d4902ea.png.html)
http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx60/thetoolishere/Untitled7_zps702430e9.png (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/thetoolishere/media/Untitled7_zps702430e9.png.html)
http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx60/thetoolishere/Untitled6_zps626ab1a9.png (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/thetoolishere/media/Untitled6_zps626ab1a9.png.html)
http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx60/thetoolishere/Untitled5_zpsec50efb4.png (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/thetoolishere/media/Untitled5_zpsec50efb4.png.html)
http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx60/thetoolishere/Untitled4_zps4334d288.png (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/thetoolishere/media/Untitled4_zps4334d288.png.html)
http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx60/thetoolishere/Untitled3_zps0becbc71.png (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/thetoolishere/media/Untitled3_zps0becbc71.png.html)
http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx60/thetoolishere/Untitled2x_zpsb7007ea5.png (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/thetoolishere/media/Untitled2x_zpsb7007ea5.png.html)



HO LEE CHIT!!!! KNM actually printed something…haha!!!

[robertreed711]

Weren't we supposed to have some assembled pics from bigevil at some point?

[Xmagterror]

Thats very cool to be able to print your cad file to make the prototype.

[cougar20th]

Yes, Ive had some delays. But I believe I forgot to adjust something in the prototype. Been messing with it. Still going to send it to BE. But think I need to run thru one more prototype.

[BigEvil]

Weren't we supposed to have some assembled pics from bigevil at some point?

I got the triggers yesterday.. still waiting on the rest.

[BigEvil]

http://i509.photobucket.com/albums/s338/BigEvilOnline/My%20markers/PB%20tech/20140310_181801_zpsqwhvv7ma.jpg (http://s509.photobucket.com/user/BigEvilOnline/media/My%20markers/PB%20tech/20140310_181801_zpsqwhvv7ma.jpg.html)

[Spiritchaser]

The one on the left looks awesome, the one on the right might be good too.

If ordering logistics and cost allow, I'd probably order a couple

Obviously not an issue for plastic triggers but for the metal ones, have you considered the possibility of increasing the trigger pivot OD to allow purchasers to add a thin wall delrin (or similar) bushing in there without the wall getting creepy?

[cougar20th]

The one on the left looks awesome, the one on the right might be good too.

If ordering logistics and cost allow, I'd probably order a couple

Obviously not an issue for plastic triggers but for the metal ones, have you considered the possibility of increasing the trigger pivot OD to allow purchasers to add a thin wall delrin (or similar) bushing in there without the wall getting creepy?

The one on the left is NOT for this frame. Its another project altogether. There is no way it will be for the Demon frames. It was just sent to B.E. for testing at the same time.

The one on the right is for the Demon frame.

Theres no need for a delrin bushing. These pivot just fine when made of aluminum.

[Spiritchaser]

The one on the left was a surprise, it looks a LOT like one I'm currently carving out for a pneumag. Yours is a bit deeper fore-aft than the one I'm making, wider too I think, mine is only 1/4"

The plastic isn't so much for friction as for feel... Not sure how to describe it. No big deal in any case thanks for the reply

[knownothingmags]

Thats very cool to be able to print your cad file to make the prototype.

yeah it is, that's why im here. lol

[BigEvil]

Working on it..

http://i509.photobucket.com/albums/s338/BigEvilOnline/BEO%20Images/jersey%20stuff/final%20proofs/20140318_212508_zps4wpux07g.jpg (http://s509.photobucket.com/user/BigEvilOnline/media/BEO%20Images/jersey%20stuff/final%20proofs/20140318_212508_zps4wpux07g.jpg.html)

[DarkApollo]

That look awesome........

[cougar20th]

The pictures great. It shows the height difference well. From what I recall the shift up is 1/2" - 5/8" I would have to check the model for exact.

Note: the front foregrip mount is not on the prototype. It will be on the final.

[knownothingmags]

The pictures great. It shows the height difference well. From what I recall the shift up is 1/2" - 5/8" I would have to check the model for exact.

Note: the front foregrip mount is not on the prototype. It will be on the final.
printer is setup for a lot higher resolution prints :D. if you need another made, when you get it finished.

[Patron God of Pirates]

Any word?

[cougar20th]

Scotts not had the time to test it thoroughly yet.

Im getting everything inline so that when machine time frees up these can be made. Probably have a very expensive aluminum prototype made as one final check. Ive got quotes (which will change due to material costs). Ive got a rough sales structure laid out for those that only want some of the parts not all.

[Nobody]

i have held this and totally agree so far with Scott's assessment of it so far. it is comfortable but at the time, it was not on gun. crazily, the 2 finger trigger is rather comfortable.

[cougar20th]

Im still on this. I found some minor things that needed to be tweaked. But have spent hours checking & rechecking again.

[BigEvil]

...and my source for air is currently out of commission for a bit. I was hoping to have it mounted to something to show off at LL7

[cougar20th]

...and my source for air is currently out of commission for a bit. I was hoping to have it mounted to something to show off at LL7

Take it with you anyway to show off. Let some of the people see the prototype.

Guys remember its a prototype. I did some major hacking on it already so its not the prettiest thing. There are several things on that frame that will differ from the final.

[Noble]

When you have it all said and done I will buy one from you if you don't mind! :) It looks sweet!

[Patron God of Pirates]

Just resurrecting this thread to see if there is any news on testing etc. Couger? KNM? BigEvil?

[cougar20th]

Was gonna wait for parts for pictures but I guess I need to post second prototypes being machined now. Hoping to have it soon.

[Dirge]

Excellent! :)

[zanegzz]

I can make these parts for you if you interest. Aluminum machining (http://www.kaiao-rprt.com/techniques/aluminum-machining.html)might helpful to you. You can talk to me. I hope the finish on the parts is what you were asking for.

[flampaint]

Just resurrecting this thread to see if there is any news on testing etc. Couger? KNM? BigEvil?

I'd like to second that - this looks VERY nice! :D
respect!:hail:

[cougar20th]

Having the prototype made has fallen thru. Ive been in talks with another machinist to have it cut.

[Patron God of Pirates]

Cougar posted in the Uni-frame thread :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:


Having the prototype made has fallen thru. Ive been in talks with another machinist to have it cut.

Oh... :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[cougar20th]

Trust me im trying. Once i get the m86's behind me all my attention going to this project.

[shell072867]

couger any news we all want know?:hail:

[knownothingmags]

couger any news we all want know?:hail:

he is still getting M86 run #3 finished.

[cougar20th]

he is still getting M86 run #3 finished.

Correct. Ive gotta do only one project at a time to keep my sanity.

There is nothing more I want to do then get everybody the parts they want. But have keep it one project at a time. We all know what happens if people get to many things going on at once. I can't and won't let that happen. I would rather have you guys wait and get parts then have everything go kittywampus and you guys have nothing.

Doing it this way allows me to micromanage everything. I know its somewhat inconvenient for those waiting for the future projects (Demon Uniframe, K45HB, Etc) to be done. I sorry for that but I feel its best for everyone involved.



M86 Run #3 has been promised for St Pattys day. We will see. Im gonna call to confirm that this week.