Warpless z2

[Syko89]

Ok so I was bored and decided I should hack up a loader :what:

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u382/sykoraider/IMG_20131101_202744_635_zpsbe82c027.jpg
Damn compared to the halo line the z2 has no room for this. Cut down the elbow and had to thin it down a little more than half of the material to get it to sit in the existing Raceway as I wanted to cut the z2 as little as possible.

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u382/sykoraider/IMG_20131101_202736_265_zps7a28a924.jpg
Had to notch the battery block to get it to fit will look into other power options later

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u382/sykoraider/IMG_20131101_202651_094_zps13129b4e.jpg
Almost there!

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u382/sykoraider/IMG_20131101_202323_455_zpsae50ece6.jpg
http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u382/sykoraider/IMG_20131101_202253_423_zpsa598a44d.jpg
http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u382/sykoraider/IMG_20131101_202243_920_zpse7264316.jpg

Now I just need paint to test run in. Notice the motor is the same size as a halo one so might get some high torque motors depending on how the stock one holds up.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWhQt7Z6-9Q&feature=youtube_gdata_player

First try and works great. I had nothing but old paint. I will try to get some fresh stuff and kick the rof up in the next video.

[luke]

Nice!

That video makes me appreciate living in the AZ desert!

[Syko89]

Yeah Winter sucks but I will say I would rather rush for cover behind a oak or pine trees than your local vegetation.

[rukh013]

could you post pics of how easy to remove the front is for cleaning?

Very nice look

[Spiritchaser]

Hey! Winter is awesome!

Hiding in the ground clutter during an intense snow squall, watching your opponent, knowing he hasn't got a hope in hades of seeing a static target through the snow

Sliding behind logs is much more painless with a few inches of white padding

Need fortifications? Bring a shovel

Tracking/hunt games

Automags work pretty well even with spindrift everywhere. Not everything does you know...

On a more relevant note, I may need to try a left feed some day

[Syko89]

I will when I get home but the elbow coming out of the loader is not secured on inside the loader. Instead it is sandwiched with the bracket at the bottom and the warp body at the top. Loosening the clamps at the body and the elbow slides right off and then the nose can be removed as any other z2

[Ailia]

Sounds like I might have to pick up a used z2, my modded halo just did not hold up and was a pain to use in this configuration.

[Syko89]

I did it on a halo 2 and it worked great. The key with the halo is you have to use a upgrade to the motor

[river031403]

I want one! Do you have a parts list?

[Syko89]

I want one! Do you have a parts list?

Ummm
1 z2
1 3/4in 90 degree copper elbow flanged on one side
2 3/4in 45 degree copper elbow. 1 flanged on both ends and the other flanged only on one side
Some straight 3/4in copper pipe
Some fix stix "epoxy puddy"
Some quick set 2 part epoxy

[BigEvil]

Sweet. Im going to have to try this.. I have a prophecy laying around. If there was a demand for it, maybe we could come up with 3d printed loader trays for various loaders that feed up.

[Ailia]

Sure seems like there is interest any time one of these types of threads get posted. Think I've only see one that wasn't Halo-ish, can't remember what it was. Loader trays and quality mounting brackets would do a lot for these types of setups. Think my halo's death was mostly brought on by a poorly milled bracket putting too much strain on the shell.

[Syko89]

Sweet. Im going to have to try this.. I have a prophecy laying around. If there was a demand for it, maybe we could come up with 3d printed loader trays for various loaders that feed up.

You actually would not need a new loader. Both the halo Raceway and the z2 come apart where the paint feeds towards the feedneck. 3d print a new piece that diverts the feed path up.

[Levi]

Sweet. Im going to have to try this.. I have a prophecy laying around. If there was a demand for it, maybe we could come up with 3d printed loader trays for various loaders that feed up.

That would be sweet!

I'd be down for one!

[luke]

Think my halo's death was mostly brought on by a poorly milled bracket putting too much strain on the shell.

I wouldn't want to stock them but would do a small run if I could sell them upfront.

[Ailia]

What kind of design did you have in mind luke? Mostly wondering in terms of attaching the hopper to the bracket.

[Justus]

I wouldn't want to stock them but would do a small run if I could sell them upfront.

Color me interested. Right now I've got a blank of 1/8" (or 1/16"?) thick, 2" wide aluminum that I picked up from the hardware store. Planning on drilling and bending it to make a bracket for my warpless Halo. Also, since both my dad and dad-in-law also use warp setups, I have a couple other Halo's that need modded and brackets too. Dropping the warpfeed makes the gun sit down easier (not lopsided) and drops, what, a pound or pound-and-a-half?

[Pump&Run]

Count me in Luke...

Which loader do you guys consider the best option for this mod? I have been looking to pick up an Invert Halo too, which was suggested in a couple mod threads...?

[Kory]

I'm interested in any info on this as well. 3d printed parts would be great.
Kory

[Justus]

Got to bump this again. I'd love to see the inside of the setup, to see how a 3D printed feed diverter might drop in. It sounds like if that were the case, all you'd need is to drill two holes (one in the outer shell, one in the inside ramp) and attach some warp hose running all the way out. Then you could use a normal warp 90* elbow.

[luke]

I never revisited this thread until today, this is how I would do it. It places the hopper in the perfect playing position. Works on the left or right hand side of the marker.

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/HaloFeedBracket_zps3ebf226f.jpg (http://s550.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/HaloFeedBracket_zps3ebf226f.jpg.html)

[Syko89]

Got to bump this again. I'd love to see the inside of the setup, to see how a 3D printed feed diverter might drop in. It sounds like if that were the case, all you'd need is to drill two holes (one in the outer shell, one in the inside ramp) and attach some warp hose running all the way out. Then you could use a normal warp 90* elbow.

Posted full build thread

[blamtro]

Luke, count me in depending on price

[BigEvil]

I never revisited this thread until today, this is how I would do it. It places the hopper in the perfect playing position. Works on the left or right hand side of the marker.

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/HaloFeedBracket_zps3ebf226f.jpg (http://s550.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/HaloFeedBracket_zps3ebf226f.jpg.html)


Likey. BUT, you might want to think about extending that attaches to the grip and slot the holes the same way the agd warp plate is. This way the user could adjust the angle to his liking.

[luke]

No offence but the AGD bracket is a bad design. Angling the Warpfeed so you can reach around is not an ideal playing position, it's cumbersome , unbalanced and just feels unnatural, not to mention it looks funky. (Sorry Tom :) ) Have you ever shouldered a warp feed marker using my warp-rear bracket? This design allows you to shoulder your marker as if there is no Warpfeed attached (NO REACHING AROUND) and it does not interfere with your mask.

If you want to know where the Warpfeed-rear bracket and the design above places your hopper, do this (you don't even need a marker) hold you hands up as if you're shooting in a natural position, super compact is ok, now look down on the side you are holding your foregrip with, see the 'V' your arm makes? That is where the hopper sits. If you want to take the experiment further, (again without a marker works) sit a hopper in the V, there is no better position. ;)

The only necessary adjustment has to do with the width of your hopper and the parallel space between the marker and hopper.

This was one of my set-ups I used with the Warp-rear bracket, I'm squatted down on my toes, leaning out the RHS of a bunker
http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/Luke_zps7d9dcbf2.jpg
(http://s550.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/Luke_zps7d9dcbf2.jpg.html)

The key is the V it's the only free space available. Look at the angle of my forearm, elbow to foregrip, it's completely natural.

Yea the Vertfeed sucked.

:bounce:

[Syko89]

I never revisited this thread until today, this is how I would do it. It places the hopper in the perfect playing position. Works on the left or right hand side of the marker.

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/HaloFeedBracket_zps3ebf226f.jpg (http://s550.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/HaloFeedBracket_zps3ebf226f.jpg.html)

I'll take 1

[river031403]

I really like Luke's warp forward bracket
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j381/river031403/5AAEAAC4-5CE1-458C-A34A-1D0242395337_zpsyqoq5hcv.jpg (http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/river031403/media/5AAEAAC4-5CE1-458C-A34A-1D0242395337_zpsyqoq5hcv.jpg.html)
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j381/river031403/6B412DF3-5B9D-4938-B605-52C254289D48_zpswprv41ya.jpg (http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/river031403/media/6B412DF3-5B9D-4938-B605-52C254289D48_zpswprv41ya.jpg.html)

[BigEvil]

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/Luke_zps7d9dcbf2.jpg
(http://s550.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/Luke_zps7d9dcbf2.jpg.html)

The key is the V it's the only free space available. Look at the angle of my forearm, elbow to foregrip, it's completely natural.

Yea the Vertfeed sucked.

:bounce:

NO offense back, but that looks awful the way you are holding it and very far from the way I do. Which is pretty much the reason why I don't use the warp mounting brackets I got from you way back when.

[luke]

I prefer a compact setup, but even more I couldn't play with the AGD bracket. Actually that is how I shoulder a marker with or without a Warp. ;)

Having to hook your arm around the warp and hopper never worked for me. I'm curious to know how you shoulder your Warpfeed markers and how you are able to achieve a comfortable mount using the factory bracket?

[river031403]

Agd warp bracket was the reason I went away from the warp originally. Now I'm back with lukes warp forward bracket sooo tight love it

[Justus]

I'm with BE, I think. I angle my warp bracket all the way forward so that the warpfeed sits parallel with my forearm at a diagonal angle. Then adjust my hopper so that it sits facing forward again, and the warp hose comes out along the right side without needing any hopper mods (no hose-through, no melting and molding around the hose).

That said, without the warpfeed, the hopper is going to sit at pretty much the same level and the bulk of the warpfeed is not going to be in the way of a user's forearm. SO I don't think it's really going to matter much, except where and at what angle you have your warp hose exiting your warpless hopper. But, for that reason and because different hoppers are shaped differently, and have a feed tube positioned differently on the bottom, even though it may be perfectly fine to have the hopper sit back by the grip, it also may be better to have some flexibility.

I do like the fact that the sample CAD looks to have a clamping bracket kind of like a Kapp drop (I used a modified version of that with my first warpless Halo). That is a better solution than drilling a hole in a piece of 1/8" thick aluminum bar and putting tape or a clamp on the bottom of the hopper.

[Justus]

Anyone with 3D printer access and knowhow have any ideas on what it might be like to print up an upward feed diverter that works well with warpfeed hose? I'm thinking of something that will drop in with just two holes drilled, and will keep the warp hose pressed into place kind of like the way the newer 90* black Qloader elbows work.

Googled pic:

89163

[Justus]

Luke, any chance of getting any of those brackets made before LL7 (weekend of May 17)? I don't know what you're thinking on timetable.

[luke]

I will make them but I wont stock them on the shelves. It would have to be an order of 25 to get the project done. Paid projects go to the top of the list. ;) Price would be a little more than my current warpfeed brackets because they wont be a stock item.

[Justus]

Sweet. Im going to have to try this.. I have a prophecy laying around. If there was a demand for it, maybe we could come up with 3d printed loader trays for various loaders that feed up.

From what I've seen, now that I have a Z2 in-hand, is a minimum of two parts needing to be replaced.

The first is the "slide", shown here:
89239

The slide allows the paint to feed downward. It would need redone to cause the paint to feed upward.

The second piece is the "outlet cover", shown here:
89240

The outlet cover mirrors the original slide, and also contains the anti-jam freeway. It would need redone to cause the paint to feed upward.

Ideally, those pieces could be formed into one 3D printed part and would be angled at about 45* toward the right-hand side of the shell to accommodate the mod. Then, to make the system really drop-in, a new floor could be printed with a hole in the proper spot, to allow the newly printed slide/outlet cover to fit through. Or, of course, you could require people to just drill a hole in their existing floor at just the right spot.

Here's a pic of the "floor":
89241

Once this is done, the internals would be modified for upward feeding, and all that would need to be done to complete the mod is to drill a hole in your shell of choice (normal/high-cap/whatever color) and feed some warp hose through. The warp hose would need to fit over the newly designed slide/outlet piece, snugly, just like it does with the newer qloader 90* angle connections like I posted before.



If someone were really interested in redoing these parts and having them printed, I'd be super interested in purchasing them to have a perfectly clean mod done. If not, then copper pipe and a dremel it is! ;)

[Syko89]

Got the 240 shells and with the release clip up higher the feed tube doesn't interfere with it.

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u382/sykoraider/Mobile%20Uploads/20140330_091026_zpscqg4fdsu.jpg (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/sykoraider/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140330_091026_zpscqg4fdsu.jpg.html)

[BigEvil]

Got the 240 shells and with the release clip up higher the feed tube doesn't interfere with it.

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u382/sykoraider/Mobile%20Uploads/20140330_091026_zpscqg4fdsu.jpg (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/sykoraider/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140330_091026_zpscqg4fdsu.jpg.html)

Im curious to see your mounting bracket

[Syko89]

1/8th inch aluminum stock.

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u382/sykoraider/Mobile%20Uploads/20140330_102206_zpsp8dm0fcp.jpg (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/sykoraider/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140330_102206_zpsp8dm0fcp.jpg.html)

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u382/sykoraider/Mobile%20Uploads/20140330_102218_zps0xlzmsoq.jpg (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/sykoraider/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140330_102218_zps0xlzmsoq.jpg.html)

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u382/sykoraider/Mobile%20Uploads/20140330_102240_zps7ggc5usp.jpg (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/sykoraider/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140330_102240_zps7ggc5usp.jpg.html)

sprayed with rhino liner. Will redone when I anno the lowers

[BigEvil]

Nice. Thanks. I gotta get busy.

[Syko89]

Nice. Thanks. I gotta get busy.

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

[BigEvil]

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

I am a huge fan of the warp concept but so hate the extra pound it adds to the gun.

[Justus]

I am a huge fan of the warp concept but so hate the extra pound it adds to the gun.

Agreed. And it makes the gun sit so awkwardly, you can't put it down easily.

[Loguzzzzzz]

I have a bracket I have been developing. I will post up a Solidworks pic when I can get to the computer that has it!

[BigEvil]

I have a bracket I have been developing. I will post up a Solidworks pic when I can get to the computer that has it!

About time there you passive troublemaker you!

[Syko89]

I have a bracket I have been developing. I will post up a Solidworks pic when I can get to the computer that has it!

I'd be interested

[Justus]

I have had my cousin working on one for awhile now too (engineering student with access to all kinds of toys). I sent him instructions to modify the design a bit a few days back. Should see something back from him soon.

Basically, my concept was if a warpfeed bracket and the bulky part of a Kapp drop had a baby, and it clamped to a hopper instead of a bottle regulator. That's because I had been using, literally, part of an old PTP warpfeed mount bolted to a Kapp drop turned sideways.

[Syko89]

Update: first day of actual play brought up some issues. Feeding had moments of being in consist towards the middle of the day. Changed the battery and got better. What's the problem you ask? The lithium ion batteries where installed that morning. I noticed that the auto anti jam is activating a lot causing interrupted feeding and killing the battery. Looking for a fix will keep you all posted on the progress. Just being up front before someone else cuts up a good loader

[Flurry]

Update: first day of actual play brought up some issues. Feeding had moments of being in consist towards the middle of the day. Changed the battery and got better. What's the problem you ask? The lithium ion batteries where installed that morning. I noticed that the auto anti jam is activating a lot causing interrupted feeding and killing the battery. Looking for a fix will keep you all posted on the progress. Just being up front before someone else cuts up a good loader

When I did mine I used the Halo Too and a Halo B2 because you can turn off the tension sensor to keep it from stopping intermittently if the stack pressure gets too high. I've used mine playing 2 day events and not changing the batteries but I use the 2 nine volt in parallel setup. See if the Z2 has a setting to turn off the tension sensor or antijam feature.

[Justus]

Here's the info you need:

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3801842

Look at what Simon says about the red light - motor sensing - on/off.

[Syko89]

Yeah I did that and it didn't seem to have any affect. Function wise I had Better luck with the Halo too but want the disassembly and lower profile of the z2. Might take z2 board out and mount a halo 2 board in the back she'll piece

[Syko89]

But just FYI. If you are using a halo the scion z2 style wheel fits in the Halo raceway with a little trimming of the cups

[zondo]

First, let's get this out of the way before GH posts it....

http://cdn.head-fi.org/5/5b/5bbf4f38_resurrection.jpg

Now to my question. Can the parts from the Empire Defender's loader and plumbing be used? Also, is the motor or cup different from the Z2? I only did a quick search, but couldn't really compare them.

I love that they went with an integrated loader, but it looks like the shoulder to grip length is longer than I would like and I don't think there is any way to adjust it.

[Syko89]

I thought about this but I got shoot down with just about every place I tried to get the internals of the loader. The defenders loaders board is also integrated with the markers board.