printed rails, Interest thread

[knownothingmags]

Material is ABS PLASTIC. 8"x8"x8" (corner to corner is more, Pythagorean and all. )
this is NOT PLA, NYLON, CARBONFIBER, etc.

ABS is what I print for now.
Right now I print a successful 1 micron layer thickness.
(developing lower close to .5 microns, hopeful for .25 microns(beta))

anyone interested in these?
non forgrip or with forgrip hugging to the frame trigger guard.

-can do multiple colors.
-does NOT come with Z-lock pin channel
-I have slim designs
-am open to ideas of new designs
-can design am/mm sear or RT sear channels

***these are the lightest working rails I know of,
no one has printed a successful carbon fiber rail, that I know of;
since there is only one carbon fiber printer that has just been recently invented.(may be mine soon :) here's hoping)

let me know what you think.
oh and I can always just print you a square block rail if you want.


___________________________________
you can NOT at this time run air through this printed material I offer. to do so is wrong and can result in injury.
_____________________________________________
questions please ask.

*****prices will not be discussed here.******

and if you are appalled by this idea, totally hate it please let me know.

thank you,
KNMPS

**I WILL NOT PRINT IN WHITE, it has a different composition then colored ABS, and is therefore more weak. I will not produce anything in white, will not release any product in white.

[knownothingmags]

reserved for pics as requested.

**-non-fore grip-**
http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx60/thetoolishere/3D%20print%20shop/railA_zpsda3d0d4f.png (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/thetoolishere/media/3D%20print%20shop/railA_zpsda3d0d4f.png.html)

-this one will not stay the same will have modifications-
will not over hang unless customer specifies.
http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx60/thetoolishere/3D%20print%20shop/IMG_20140309_161453_856_zps717ccc34.jpg (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/thetoolishere/media/3D%20print%20shop/IMG_20140309_161453_856_zps717ccc34.jpg.html)
_________________________________
http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx60/thetoolishere/IMG_20140310_234953_517_zps69c0bea7.jpg (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/thetoolishere/media/IMG_20140310_234953_517_zps69c0bea7.jpg.html)
http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx60/thetoolishere/IMG_20140310_235005_339_zps4d55f54e.jpg (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/thetoolishere/media/IMG_20140310_235005_339_zps4d55f54e.jpg.html)
__________________________________________________ ________

[C_losjoker]

that is very cool, could be interested in this.

[knownothingmags]

that is very cool, could be interested in this.

any questions or thoughts can be messaged or posted up.
just let me know.

[Frizzle Fry]

any questions or thoughts can be messaged or posted up.
just let me know.

Are you 3D printing now? Can you make me some barrel tips for a 7/8" barrel? :D

[Nobody]

i'd take one, just to play around with. put it on Loguzo's account :p

[knownothingmags]

Are you 3D printing now? Can you make me some barrel tips for a 7/8" barrel? :D

pm me with details
all things need to be tested, before release of course.

I have yet to learn how to create threading,
I have some people that may be able to speed that process along though.

[Frizzle Fry]

No threading necessary. And if I may say it, I would be all over these rails you're offering if I had more guns that took rails :D

[knownothingmags]

No threading necessary. And if I may say it, I would be all over these rails you're offering if I had more guns that took rails :D

gotcha :nono:
no rail how do you stay on the roller coaster? :eek:

[river031403]

Pretty cool work.
Remember once you state a price it gets sent to dealer section so make sure your set and good with it before you disclose a price.

[mpsd]

When I say the first post, the super-small Sydarm rail was the first one that came to my mind. And then I scroll it down and what do I see? LOL I'm in for one like that, depending on price.

[Grelvire]

Interested, looks good.

does the ABS have any give that could cause cycling issues?

[blackdeath1k]

If the printed abs works like all the abs I use in bodywork and fab. It should work great. It will ding. But I try to take care of my markers. Im curious as to what price point these will be. And my head is spinning on overall design options. BUT I'm too cheap to purchase one most likely.

[knownothingmags]

Interested, looks good.

does the ABS have any give that could cause cycling issues?

there is give as in any plastic.
tighten the rear valve thumb screw properly and it will operate fine.

if you do a forgerip there is some flex that is why im not offering RT length. that flex does not hinder cycling of the marker.

[Spider-TW]

You think the threaded area and sear pin support will last? If not you could always make room for some inserts.

Most mag rails have that sear centering zig-zag. For printing, you could just throw in a nub on each side.

On your sydarm rail, you could put a short picatinny extension, for your laser, don-cha-no.

[knownothingmags]

You think the threaded area and sear pin support will last? If not you could always make room for some inserts.

Most mag rails have that sear centering zig-zag. For printing, you could just throw in a nub on each side.

On your sydarm rail, you could put a short picatinny extension, for your laser, don-cha-no.
I think it will hold up.
ill put it through its paces some more.
___
that's why I made this thread to get ideas and input.
when you explain stuff like that it helps a lot to give me ideas on how to test this stuff.

[magman313]

is there going to be a design with a slot for a foregrip?

[knownothingmags]

is there going to be a design with a slot for a foregrip?

yes, have to do some more testing on it.
but the design will put the forgrip right next to the trigger guard.

[maverick13]

Nice and interesting idea.

I could be for one depending on price.

I'd really like to see it on one of my markers and see how it works !

Will you do an AM/MM length, am/mm sear with slot for foregrip ? Oups I didn't saw Magman asked almost the same and you already answered for the slot !

For the centering zig zag, is there an interest to have a zig zag ? Why not having straight line letting the same room for the sear as the zig zag do ? This could simplify the printing .

[knownothingmags]

Nice and interesting idea.

I could be for one depending on price.

I'd really like to see it on one of my markers and see how it works !

Will you do an AM/MM length, am/mm sear with slot for foregrip ? Oups I didn't saw Magman asked almost the same and you already answered for the slot !

For the centering zig zag, is there an interest to have a zig zag ? Why not having straight line letting the same room for the sear as the zig zag do ? This could simplify the printing .
when I design the am/mm type sear rails they will have the zig zag. its rt im not sure yet still need to test. most likely they will all have the zig zag

[ochsy]

wow that is really nice, cant wait to see what you will be able to do with it

[knownothingmags]

im working with someone here in CA to help me with a printed version of rail. and more...., as long as the More holds up to paintball abuse.

what are you guys looking for in a printed rail?
I know the sidearm rail I made is minimal.
ideas. lets go. I don't want to disappoint.. if these come to market.

1ST off these will NOT have zlock pin channels.
they will NOT stop your valve from unscrewing if you have not tightened them properly, or if an occurrence unwinds your back half of the valve, it will unwind with no restrictions from my rails.

[knownothingmags]

anymore ideas :confused:
just thought I would hit this up since I am upgrading my existing printer, this weekend.

its amazing you can print your own upgrades. lol

just to be able to print from .1 mm down to .05 mm

[leloup]

What type of printer do you use? Any chance you will upload the model to thingiverse?

[knownothingmags]

What type of printer do you use? Any chance you will upload the model to thingiverse?

probably not.
I use a solidoodle3, soon to be printing at .05mm

[Deviant]

Interested but not really in this design, if your up for designs though Im pretty handy with 3dsMax im sure i can come up with something to my liking.

[knownothingmags]

Interested but not really in this design, if your up for designs though Im pretty handy with 3dsMax im sure i can come up with something to my liking.

shoot me your design, ill make it :D
pm me for pricing.

[knownothingmags]

printing a "square" style rail for testing with foregrip.
its strong enough for the foregrip, its only long enough to accommodate a foregrip at this time.

[knownothingmags]

is there going to be a design with a slot for a foregrip?

yes :D

[knownothingmags]

when I design the am/mm type sear rails they will have the zig zag. its rt im not sure yet still need to test. most likely they will all have the zig zag

this has been changed.

[maverick13]

Is it possible to see the "square" rail ?

[need4reebs]

any pics? what has changed? what kind of testing has been done?

[captian pinky]

could you use a cut down rt sear pin and make those wing things smaller.

[BTAutoMag]

I have one of each and I will be extensively testing them. I can tell you that each rail Weighs about 1/2 oz

[ScottyBeans]

1/2 oz is crazy light. That's awesome.

[GoatBoy]

If you've got a boner for threaded sear pins, you could possibly use thread inserts.

The simplest option is to undersize the hole and press-fit the sear pin in. It's just a 1/8" pin.

The un-fun part is the tolerances on the 3d printed hole. 3d printing smallish holes accurately and consistently can be kind of a pain.

So the in-between is to oversize part of the hole for an easily sourced bearing/bushing -- adapt 1/4" to 1/8". And just hold the sear pin in with e-clips. Yeah, you have e-clips showing, but... come on, you're rocking a plastic rail.

No wings, either case.

[knownothingmags]

Is it possible to see the "square" rail ?

sorry printer is being aa brick right now, its a term for a dead 3D printer.
working with my guy in NY and MN to figure out what happened.

[knownothingmags]

The un-fun part is the tolerances on the 3d printed hole. 3d printing smallish holes accurately and consistently can be kind of a pain.



not if you have a good printer :P
I never have problems with holes.

[knownothingmags]

If you've got a boner for threaded sear pins, you could possibly use thread inserts.

The simplest option is to undersize the hole and press-fit the sear pin in. It's just a 1/8" pin.

The un-fun part is the tolerances on the 3d printed hole. 3d printing smallish holes accurately and consistently can be kind of a pain.

So the in-between is to oversize part of the hole for an easily sourced bearing/bushing -- adapt 1/4" to 1/8". And just hold the sear pin in with e-clips. Yeah, you have e-clips showing, but... come on, you're rocking a plastic rail.

No wings, either case.

also why would I change stuff like the sear pin area, I have no problems with it, if it works leave it :D

[knownothingmags]

any pics? what has changed? what kind of testing has been done?

its just a straight channel. no zig zag like on am mm rails or emag rails

[GoatBoy]

also why would I change stuff like the sear pin area, I have no problems with it, if it works leave it :D

Mostly because the threaded-ness I think is overkill and needs wings. Making one-off's is one thing, but making a bunch is another. If your printer can do it reliably, that's great.

What's wrong with your printer?

[knownothingmags]

Mostly because the threaded-ness I think is overkill and needs wings. Making one-off's is one thing, but making a bunch is another. If your printer can do it reliably, that's great.

What's wrong with your printer?

oh the layers are laying wrong right now, talking to a buddy and he is helping me out with it, its just a g code issue, which I know nothing about. lol
so he is trying to help me.

when you say needs wings, what do you mean?

[himynameisbob]

oh the layers are laying wrong right now, talking to a buddy and he is helping me out with it, its just a g code issue, which I know nothing about. lol
so he is trying to help me.

when you say needs wings, what do you mean?
If you want help with your printer/ Gcode allow me to take a look at it. I have been quite successful with my printer.

[knownothingmags]

If you want help with your printer/ Gcode allow me to take a look at it. I have been quite successful with my printer.

it wasn't the g code.
derp, I had some things just misaligned, we think.

thankyou I will keep that in mind.
thankyou for the offer.

[GoatBoy]

oh the layers are laying wrong right now, talking to a buddy and he is helping me out with it, its just a g code issue, which I know nothing about. lol
so he is trying to help me.

when you say needs wings, what do you mean?

The fat parts in the rail. In your case, the big chunk surrounding the sear pin (I think).



Yeah one of the reasons I've held back on the 3d printers is I want one that has a built-in auto-level probe if it's FDM...

[knownothingmags]

The fat parts in the rail. In your case, the big chunk surrounding the sear pin (I think).



Yeah one of the reasons I've held back on the 3d printers is I want one that has a built-in auto-level probe if it's FDM...

yeah my auto level is me set the bed to the level that is right and what do you know it stays level :D

the "wings" on the super skinny rail is where the am/mm sear sits.

[zulubravo44]

I have a question about other printed items. Working on a pump build at the moment, and I'm scrambling to find a hitman mod for it. The thought struck me... Can such a thing be printed?

Here's a rough sketch of what I came up with:

89565

I have a feeling what I've sketched up probably won't last long; the two small holes where it mounts to the pump plate are probably going to break through, right? The cutaway between these two holes is necessary because of the pump rod that is between (and slightly below) them. BTW, the overall length is 2", width is 1" at the top tapering to 0.5" on the handle and thickness varies from 0.25" where it mounts down to 0.125" on the handle.

Thoughts? Can it be done KNM?

[GoatBoy]

That's printable, but it won't be strong enough to use as a pump handle.

The best possibility would be to use 3d printing for the tricky geometries, then augment with off-the-shelf parts for strength. So 3d printed parts + off the shelf CF rods = KABLAM. Personally for anything pump rod/handle related, I'd look at some actual linear bearings and build around those if possible.


Back to rail stuff -- customization is where having a rail in the first place makes any sense at all. The rail has always been the biggest untapped customization potential of the automag. Aside from machining issues, it really should have been folded together with the grip frame.

So, for instance, if you wanted picatinny on your rail, or an integrated Gopro mount, or a plain 1/4-20 hole, or a particular foregrip setup, you could customize it into the rail. Maybe you like having "wings", maybe you don't. Maybe you want a cocker beavertail on the back of your gun for no good reason whatsoever. Rail is the place to do it. (Not the body. *Cough*) If not, then get rid of the rail altogether.

The neat part is that this can all just be code. Adding/removing options can be as simple as setting/clearing 1's and 0's in a parameterized file. Having more options is probably a nightmare for classic manufacturing, but it's totally doable if you're 3d printing them. And it would be way more "custom" than, well, what's normally considered custom.

[zulubravo44]

So, for instance, if you wanted picatinny on your rail

A very interesting idea. I'd love a rail with 6-8" of picatinny rail seamlessly stemming from the front under the barrel. Then again, I may be challenging the breakage point of printed materials again. Maybe if it kept the rounded upper contour of the rail it would be strong enough?

[knownothingmags]

That's printable, but it won't be strong enough to use as a pump handle.


yes it will. :D
may need small tweeking but should work fine.

[knownothingmags]

I have a question about other printed items. Working on a pump build at the moment, and I'm scrambling to find a hitman mod for it. The thought struck me... Can such a thing be printed?

Here's a rough sketch of what I came up with:

89565

I have a feeling what I've sketched up probably won't last long; the two small holes where it mounts to the pump plate are probably going to break through, right? The cutaway between these two holes is necessary because of the pump rod that is between (and slightly below) them. BTW, the overall length is 2", width is 1" at the top tapering to 0.5" on the handle and thickness varies from 0.25" where it mounts down to 0.125" on the handle.

Thoughts? Can it be done KNM?

yes it can be done.
* again small tweeking but i could get you where you want to be.

i am packing up to move into a new house we just purchased,
so the print shop will be down for a while.
ill hit this thread up with a post when im back, or ill hitup my printshop thread.

[zulubravo44]

yes it can be done.
* again small tweeking but i could get you where you want to be.

i am packing up to move into a new house we just purchased,
so the print shop will be down for a while.
ill hit this thread up with a post when im back, or ill hitup my printshop thread.

congrats on the new house. i'd be keen to hear what kind of tweaking would be necessary.

[GoatBoy]

A very interesting idea. I'd love a rail with 6-8" of picatinny rail seamlessly stemming from the front under the barrel. Then again, I may be challenging the breakage point of printed materials again. Maybe if it kept the rounded upper contour of the rail it would be strong enough?

Well you could wrap it around the barrel...

https://images2.sw-cdn.net/model/picture/625x465_1475489_1632690_1384501317.jpg

[knownothingmags]

Well you could wrap it around the barrel...

https://images2.sw-cdn.net/model/picture/625x465_1475489_1632690_1384501317.jpg

very nice idea.
goatboy hit me up in like a month lol
ill also check this thread again.

[zulubravo44]

Well you could wrap it around the barrel...

https://images2.sw-cdn.net/model/picture/625x465_1475489_1632690_1384501317.jpg

That is cool, but those of us with CF barrels may not be so happy about the scuff risk of something like that. Even the aluminum barrels might show wear from something like that.

It's a really cool design though.

[knownothingmags]

That is cool, but those of us with CF barrels may not be so happy about the scuff risk of something like that. Even the aluminum barrels might show wear from something like that.

It's a really cool design though.

saw this,

make a recess on the inside and put a nice lining of rubber/silicone tape, so then that is all that touches the barrel,
get a high enough quality of silicone tape and it wont ever degrade or stick to anything it touches, just grips.

[GoatBoy]

saw this,

make a recess on the inside and put a nice lining of rubber/silicone tape, so then that is all that touches the barrel,
get a high enough quality of silicone tape and it wont ever degrade or stick to anything it touches, just grips.

That's pretty much the way to do it.

That part is designed for a 1" barrel anyways (i.e. the thick part on autococker barrels where either pump arms or old school shrouds used to go), so a CF barrel typically isn't going to be thick enough anyways. I'd thicken the barrel up with whatever, and maybe cover that with shrink wrap or something to tidy it up.



Say, do you have black filament? You know how I likes my black...

[river031403]

Goatboy please design & print drum magazine for .68 paint 20 rounds or so

[knownothingmags]

That's pretty much the way to do it.

That part is designed for a 1" barrel anyways (i.e. the thick part on autococker barrels where either pump arms or old school shrouds used to go), so a CF barrel typically isn't going to be thick enough anyways. I'd thicken the barrel up with whatever, and maybe cover that with shrink wrap or something to tidy it up.



Say, do you have black filament? You know how I likes my black...
Just waiting on the house to close so we can move in. :)

[zulubravo44]

Got another crazy printing idea that may just work. If you pay attention to my blabbering, you may know that I just "finished" a Z body pump mag. By finished I mean made it functional, and it's a whole hell of a lot of fun.

An idea struck me. What about making a "classic feed" for where the powertube attaches. The body uses as a dovetailed, removable powerfeed setup. If I can go with a classic feed, I can easily bolt on a very low profile stick feed. Biggest problem is that I'm drawing up a product with a market of one buyer (I think). Then again, I thought 3D printing was all about the capacity to do one offs and rapid prototypes?

So I took to my free CAD software and came up with this. I'm pretty sure this is a printable part, no?

89668


I also made one with a fully revolved and extruded 12 round tube, but that might not be possible to print because of dimensions and geometry? See below.

89669

And one last crazy idea. Cram and jam, with an tapered cram receiver. It's cramming on a 10° angle up and out.

89670

[knownothingmags]

Got another crazy printing idea that may just work. If you pay attention to my blabbering, you may know that I just "finished" a Z body pump mag. By finished I mean made it functional, and it's a whole hell of a lot of fun.

An idea struck me. What about making a "classic feed" for where the powertube attaches. The body uses as a dovetailed, removable powerfeed setup. If I can go with a classic feed, I can easily bolt on a very low profile stick feed. Biggest problem is that I'm drawing up a product with a market of one buyer (I think). Then again, I thought 3D printing was all about the capacity to do one offs and rapid prototypes?

So I took to my free CAD software and came up with this. I'm pretty sure this is a printable part, no?

89668


I also made one with a fully revolved and extruded 12 round tube, but that might not be possible to print because of dimensions and geometry? See below.

89669

And one last crazy idea. Cram and jam, with an tapered cram receiver. It's cramming on a 10° angle up and out.

89670

Yeah its a good idea.
I have the same idea already in my drawing file. Just waiting to get the shop back up to do some testing.

[KurtPB]

Jeez, if you make this rail I may just have to pick up one of XMT's carbon bodies, a DW cf foregrip/barrel and an old CF frame. :D

[GoatBoy]

Goatboy please design & print drum magazine for .68 paint 20 rounds or so

I think someone already made something like that...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4LY5nMvrZg