new ultraslick barrel idea?

[MagMaster2]

Someone has probably already thought of this before but here goes. you have a normal aluminum barrel but the inside is bored out to a larger size and a sleve of some ultraslick material be it delrin or whatever. is inserted. Then the extra slickness of the delrin would help reduce the operating pressure of the gun by creating less friction. Also this would probably reduce ball breaks greatly due to reduced friction. Also if you ever get a nasty scratch on the inside of the barrel you could just remoove the sleave and insert a new one. Wheras with a normal barrel you would have to get it honed and reanodized
The only drawback I can think of is the delrin not being strong enough??? please post your thoughts and poke holes in it all you want. I think it could work but tell me if I'm wrong.

[Minimag4me]

I dont think delrin would work. I dont like the idea of plastic barrels at all. Anodized alluminum is pretty slick itself. I would like to see replacible sleves like you said for the scratch thing but the freak already pretty much did that.

[MagMaster2]

The barrel would not be made out of delrin only the inner sleve which would be maby 0.7 mm thick the barrel would still be aluminum. Just like how an engine block is aluminum but the cylinder has a steel sleve in it. Also the freak only lets you change the back 5" of the barrel this would allow you to swap the whole thing.

[J]

I heard derlin swells with high friction and heat so on a hot day or just firing fast, the bore might get tighter. I could be wrong tho

[Miscue]

Teflon... it's been done. Brass barrels are good too.

[MagMaster2]

I don't think that you are right about delrin swelling. I mean they use it to make bolts so it has to be able to withstand high friction.

By the way miscue. which barrel did they use teflon in?

[PBpunk]

i think that its the 32* carbon fiber that has the teflon coating or something

[Rynoboy06]

Maybe it's on that one too, but I'm pretty sure it's just the J&J ceramic that has teflon in it.

[thei3ug]

Delrin barrels have been tried.

Delrin is sensitive to temperature and moisture. At the very best you will not get a consistant bore size through and through at any given time. In normal conditions... it's a blender.

[trevy38]

I always spray Tri-flo (dry oil made of teflon) in my barrel and give it one quick swab. It shoots very well that way and minimizes ball breakage.

[paint king]

The J and J barrels have a wierd inner coating but whatever it is it shoots nice.

[MagMaster2]

Where can you get this tri flow stuff?!!?

It sounds very useful.

[animal]

The j&j ceramics are teflon coated inside. It also helps, I've been told, to apply rain-x to your barrel. Supposedly you can fire the paint right out. Never tried this personally though.

[thei3ug]

Rain-X = teflon.

coating the barrel with teflon won't help it shoot BETTER or FARTHER or reduce friction lowering operating pressure or anything of the sort. It will, however, allow you to shoot through breaks easier, as the paint beads up and can't, for lack of a simpler term, stick to the sides. When that's an issue, teflon is a godsend. What teflon isn't is a magical barrel enchanter, here to whisk your paintballs on a flight with destiny.

I didn't touch on this, but I just read the ENTIRE thread. Also, the carbon fiber barrel may have teflon on it, but it doesn't matter because the ball never touches the carbon fiber.

[thei3ug]

Same with that J&J 2-piece barrel.

The end might have "teflon impregnated ceramic," but the ball never touches it. Whoopidedoo.

those X-people who are making the plastic barrel tips have the best idea. Why let the end of the 2 piece take up so much weight if you're not really using it? let's make it out of plastic!

[SLICEnDICE]

According to a former DOD patent attorney the DOD has a patent on a barrel design like the one you are talking about. Food for thought.

[trevy38]

Yeah, you can shoot through breaks easier. But, it minimizes friction... I never get ball breaks in the barrel, and it always comes out straight.

[DaveK]

"Rain-X" is not Teflon. It is an alcohol carrier mixed with two siloxanes (super small molecules that make up silicone oil).

Teflon stops food from sicking to cookware and keeps steam irons from sticking to cloth when ironing. The anti-stick properties come from filling the natural occuring porosity in metal surfaces . It is not really slippery until weight or pressure is applied to something rubbing against a Teflon-coated surface- the more pressure, the slipperier the Teflon surface becomes.. Because of the pressure required to make Teflon slippery, it does not provide any advangage as a barrel coating, and actually increases friction.

Years ago, a Canadian manufacturer made a barrel treatment that contained "Rain-X", and his product was sold under the name of "Laser Bore". I have tried his exact chemical recipe, and could not get any measurable results as far as velocity increase, but several old timers swear that "Laser Bore" did work and provided measurable velocity increase vs. untreated barrels.

[trevy38]

You tell me why Teflon (the slipperiest substance known to man) in the Tri-flo solution increases friction. Tri-flo, which contains Teflon, is a dry oil which is used specifically for these kinds of purposes.

[AGD]

Like the molecular facts going on here! I learned something!

AGD

[DaveK]

To trevy38-
I did not say that Tri-Flo would increase friction. Without the required pressure to make use of its slipperiness, a coating of pure Teflon in a barrel would increase friction for the passage of a paintball.

BTW- Teflon is only produced by E. I. DuPont Corp. and can only be applied to any surface by a licensed DuPont dealer. Others use the "Teflon" name illegally- what they actually apply to surfaces or mix in solutions is the generic polytetrafluoroethylene.

The "slipperiest substance known to man" only lives up to that phrase if it is properly applied and utilized. Teflon coatings on frying pans, irons, and industrial machine components are made of solid Teflon ground into powder and mixed with an epoxy binding agent (like glue). It is applied electrostatically to the surface to be coated, then baked at high temperature. This melts the epoxy binder, and when cooled, the binder "glues" the Teflon particles in place. Without the binder and heat, solutions containing Teflon or PTFE lose most of the desired effect. The Teflon in the gun barrel can't stick and is squeegeed out of the barrel with each shot of a paintball.

[Miscue]

Humm, does the 'K' in DaveK stand for Kermode? :p

[DaveK]

To Miscue:
Click on my profile, then click on my URL to get your answer. Thanks for asking.
Dave

[Thordic]

Our list of celebrity members continues to grow :)

Welcome to AO, Dave.

[cphilip]

Ah you are a "slippery" rascal Dave! Pardon the pun.
Welcome to AO Mr. KC.

[DaveK]

Thanks for the welcome, Thordic and cphilip.
However, I have to reject being described as a "celebrity" and am surprised when people as far away (from me) as New Jersey and South Carolina even recognize my name. This is a very interesting group, and I only post here when my personal experience can help with a statement or qauestion. The audience is welcome to believe anything they please. Thanks again-
DaveK

[Chris TeamJoker]

Originally posted by DaveK
Years ago, a Canadian manufacturer made a barrel treatment that contained "Rain-X", and his product was sold under the name of "Laser Bore". I have tried his exact chemical recipe, and could not get any measurable results as far as velocity increase, but several old timers swear that "Laser Bore" did work and provided measurable velocity increase vs. untreated barrels.

Hehe...Good old Doug Devin. Had both "Laser Bore" and "Laser Lube". The lube was basically synthetic tranny fluid, as best I could determine, and I have used that for years on my markers.

The Laser Bore was a waste of money in my opinion. More hype than it was worth.

[DaveK]

To Chris/Team Joker:
Hi Chris- Doug Devin now lives and works near my California location and I consider him to be a good friend. The sample of "Laser Bore" that I tried came from Doug's Canadian friend who originally made it (and still does).
Using a high-end Autococker with a plain and a ported barrle, shooting over a Radar Chrono, and using the original Canadian "Laser Bore", I could find no measurable velocity difference between treated and untreated barrels.
Doug believes that this stuff works, but you and I do not which doesn't change my opinion that Doug is both intelligent and honest.

[DJSOLID]

I use your oil, Mr. Kermode, and have had no disappointing results. As far as barrel treatments, I use Rain-x. I haven't noticed any performance increases, but it sure makes cleaning easy after a break. I normally break one or two balls in a case, and I just turn the marker over, dry fire a bit and it really is effective in dispelling excess paint quickly.

[Chris TeamJoker]

To DaveK:

I agree with your comments about Doug as well. He has always proven himself to be an honest man both on and off the field. Nice to meet you, and when you see Doug next, please extend a warm hello from myself and the rest of the "Constant Airheads".

Thanks.

[Predater]

i use it all the time at work. ill have to try it in barrels now:) . i dont figure it will make the gun shoot farther but it will help in barrel breaks. the design of the oil will dry but still stay very slippery. we use it at work for pulling high voltage cable through seal tite.

i can see how it would help with a barrel that is a little too small for paint too. it wouldnt be ideal but it would help ease the friction. im going to have to try it.

i have used rain-x for a long time. but after a fiew breaks (1-2) the rain-x is gon due to the broken paint. the Tri-flo will probably last longer due to its makeup and what it was designed to be used for.

what stores can you buy the Tri-flo at. i use it at work but dont have a clew whare i can buy it. maby work can donate some;) . they are good about donating other things like high dollar computer programs. i love my job.

[Hamster Huey]

I used to use TriFlow all the time in the course of maintaining my mountain bike. You can find it at most any bike shop. It's got a nice fruity smell, too. :D

[CRiZO]

yea, there's some horn oil that's basically the same stuff, it smells like strawberrys.

[devilchild1722]

only untreated white delrin swells a substantial amount. If you boil treated it with color or impregnated black delrin with teflon it would probobly work out ok, but to machine delrin leaves little ridges where the lathe bit passed, it might work if the sleeve was extruded somehow though

[StuDawggie]

Originally posted by animal
The j&j ceramics are teflon coated inside. It also helps, I've been told, to apply rain-x to your barrel. Supposedly you can fire the paint right out. Never tried this personally though.

Car wax also works well. It's a little difficult to wax the inside of the barrel, but once you do get the inside of the barrel waxed, any breaks can be shot out with no problem. (I know this works from experience, with my tippman and mag. Both have a J&J ceramic barrel that I have that I have done this with as well as a CP barrel).