RT/level 10 question

[BLachance75]

I finally got my mag all put together and am tuning it now. I bought the valve used and it seems to be worn in plenty. I'm running the red spring and not sure what carrier but it doesn't leak. I also have a .740 on/off pin in it and have a .750 that I can put in also. It is well oiled.

The paint isn't the best, sucked when it was fresh.

I'm running a Ninja SHP reg, 1100psi, and have plenty or air in the tank, over 3000psi. With a different tank, Ninja reg at 800psi, I had no problems shooting single shots and had no shootdown or level 10.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VudD9kFG98

You can hear the level 10 kick in a few times. Is it possible due to ROF, the paint, wrong carrier, or something else.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6x3JzlsBLs

Level 10 kick in non-stop. This is different paint as the video above.

With no paint the gun shoots and RTs perfectly.

Any advise would be appreciated.

[Cyco-Dude]

what hopper / loader are you using? obviously if it can't keep up with the rt valve, you'll have feeding issues.

what barrel are you using? what is the barrel bore? what is your paint sizing in at?

depending on how sensitive you tune your level 10, the bolt can reset if it tries to push a large paintball into a smaller bore, instead of pushing the paintball into the barrel. another issue is, if you're using a small-bored barrel (.687 or smaller), the bolt can get stuck or bounce off the barrel as the nose of the level 10 bolt is .687.

what were your results with the .750 on/off pin?

[BLachance75]

I put in the .750 pin and used fresh paint and had the same issues. I also tried the gold spring with the same results. I'm using an unbored 1 piece barrel, don't know the size but I'm guessing it is big as most older unbored barrels are.

I can shoot 3-5rnd bursts before the level 10 kicks in.

I'm using a Dye Rotor, same Rotor I used last year with no issues. I can't remember if I ever changed the tension on it, I know that I thought about turning it down last year due to having to soft of detents on my S6 and having the Rotor push balls partially past them a few times.

I tried a second tank with a SHP reg, same results.

When shooting slower I'm not having any issues. This video is with a standard Ninja regulator, 800psi, gold spring and .750 pin.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-T2bYy4HN4

I will check what the tension is set at on my Rotor. Maybe I did turn it down and it isn't pushing fast enough.

[Cyco-Dude]

lol i dunno man...doesn't seem to be the barrel. doesn't seem like it's the bolt resetting due to being too soft. it certainly shouldn't be the loader, although if you had a different one or could borrow one that would be a simple variable to rule out.

how about some more details? what body / rail / frame are you using? is your trigger rod adjusted correctly? is your frame bushing in? there could possibly be some alignment issues with the rail / body / valve. you could play around with tightening / loosening the frame bolt and field strip screw and see if that does anything? i noticed you're using a ule body of some sort; is your detent in good shape? do you think its' worn a bit and the rotor is pushing them a little bit past the detent? probably not, i guess it would have issues regardless of bps, and it seems you only get issues at a higher bps.

we'll have to see what the resident agd gurus can think of.

[vintage]

rt classic, pro, ule? what grip frame? what body, I can't tell from any of the videos?

[BLachance75]

I'm going to say I'm a dumbass. The Rotor was turned way down, 2 full turns out from flush. It definitely wasn't feeding fast enough. I turned it to flush and it was much better. I turned it in more after this video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae-4DCO4AWE

[Cyco-Dude]

ha, good deal. i figured for sure, even at a slow setting the rotor would be able to keep up. i guess not! 15 year-old tech for the win! :p

[Nobody]

IMO, from what I've been told, you need to remove the red spring, as it take a lot more force to push against than the others and go with the gold spring. Then tune the gun by adding in or removing shims on the L10. Remember, you want the least amount of force possible and still be reactive.

[BLachance75]

The last video posted is with the .750 pin and gold spring.

[Cyco-Dude]

IMO, from what I've been told, you need to remove the red spring, as it take a lot more force to push against than the others and go with the gold spring. Then tune the gun by adding in or removing shims on the L10. Remember, you want the least amount of force possible and still be reactive.
as i understand it, shims are only needed if the bolt doesn't move forward enough to vent in the case of a breech block and shouldn't be needed in most cases. the gold spring works, but hits too hard (doesn't resist the bolts initial forward movement enough) for brittle paint in my experience. so even if it resets, there's no point if it still cracks the ball. your mileage / paint experience may differ from mine though.

[athomas]

It sounds like you have your level 10 tuned properly. It seems to shoot fine. It is only during rapid fire that the problems show up, which would indicate a feed issue. Check to make sure that the balls feed fast enough to keep up but not at a force that is too much for the detents. This is especially important if the paint is a bit small. You don't want the balls to get pushed forward due to momentum, as the hopper feed rate increases with the rate of fire.

[1985phenom]

what hopper / loader are you using? obviously if it can't keep up with the rt valve, you'll have feeding issues.

what barrel are you using? what is the barrel bore? what is your paint sizing in at?

depending on how sensitive you tune your level 10, the bolt can reset if it tries to push a large paintball into a smaller bore, instead of pushing the paintball into the barrel. another issue is, if you're using a small-bored barrel (.687 or smaller), the bolt can get stuck or bounce off the barrel as the nose of the level 10 bolt is .687.

what were your results with the .750 on/off pin?

Not to get this off topic but does this statement only pertain to twistlock barrels? Or does it also pertain to freak barrels/barrel kits with smaller backs?

[Cyco-Dude]

Not to get this off topic but does this statement only pertain to twistlock barrels? Or does it also pertain to freak barrels/barrel kits with smaller backs?

any twistlock barrel or adapter that the bolt enters. i can't comment on the twistlock freak backs as i don't have one, but as long as the bolt doesn't actually enter the insert, it should be ok to use whatever size insert you wanted.

[BLachance75]

How much of the bolt actually enters the barrel. The valve animations show that it doesn't actually go into the barrel, but I don't know how accurate the animations are.

[Cyco-Dude]

How much of the bolt actually enters the barrel. The valve animations show that it doesn't actually go into the barrel, but I don't know how accurate the animations are.

well, it has to enter the barrel to push the ball forward, right? the ball drops into the barrel, and the bolt pushes it forward. so the bolt has to enter at least as far as the front of the hole the ball falls through. i guess it depends on what you mean by "barrel". do you mean any part? are you talking just abut the "control bore", the portion of the barrel in front of the ball entry hole?

anyway, it's just something to keep in mind if you have a smaller bored twistlock barrel and a level 10 bolt. i've ground / filed / polished all but one of my level 10 bolts. the one i didn't do i know will be fine as the barrel has a larger bore (.693) than the bolt head (.687).

[athomas]

The tip of the level 10 bolt is supposed to be 0.685" according to AGD. Twist lock barrels have more of an issue than threaded barrels for a couple of reasons.

1) The twist lock barrels can get pushed to one side a tiny bit which means they are no longer centered in the body, which reduces the clearance on the side it is pushed against. Threaded barrels are always centered and don't move.

2) Twist lock barrels are the breach, so a small bore barrel will be small in the breach as well. Threaded barrels may have a small bore, but the breach is a constant in the gun itself and it is usually larger than most barrels on the market.