Hyperframe Noob

[OPBN]

Ok, few months back I rolled the dice on a Hyperframed Mag on Ebay. Came in sat in a box because I didn't have any batteries and it got lost in the shuffle. Anyways, finally pulled it out today and was fiddling with it. Put a battery in and it lights up, says "F13 Semi" on the screen and switches to "Fire" everytime I pull the trigger, but the solenoid isn't doing anything? With it lighting up and saying "fire" I am guessing the board is ok, but possibly a fried noid? Tried airing it up, thought maybe the noid was extended or something, but nada. I know ZERO about these things. Who can help me tech it?

[skipdogg]

Not uncommon for it to be good but not 'click'. I have 1 hyperframe that clicks, and one that doesnt. Both work just fine when aired up. I would suspect your hyperframe is fine.
If it still doesnt do anything when you air it up, you may have a on/off issue.

[OPBN]

Not uncommon for it to be good but not 'click'. I have 1 hyperframe that clicks, and one that doesnt. Both work just fine when aired up. I would suspect your hyperframe is fine.
If it still doesnt do anything when you air it up, you may have a on/off issue.

I put air to it and it doesn't do anything.

[skipdogg]

What type of on/off assembly is in the valve? And what type of valve are you using?

[OPBN]

What type of on/off assembly is in the valve? And what type of valve are you using?

Classic valve with standard on/off. Even if I take the valve out and put pressure on the sear so that it presses against the noid, nothing happens. I did kind of feel a little something at one point, but it was barely anything.

* in before that's what she said.

[skipdogg]

Classic valve with standard on/off.

Thats a loosing combination every time for a Hyperframe :(

Need a hyperframe on/off assembly.

Others have said a RT on/off with .740 pin will work too. I have never tried that.

[OPBN]

Thats a loosing combination every time for a Hyperframe :(

Need a hyperframe on/off assembly.

Others have said a RT on/off with .740 pin will work too. I have never tried that.

I can swap out a different on/off, but it just seem like it's either tripping the noid consistently or something. I take the battery out and put it back in and it kinda trips it a little, but slowly almost dies.

I tested the battery and its putting out 9+ volts. Could it be that the capacitor has been sitting uncharged for so long that it might need to charge for awhile before it will work? I know I had something similar happen on my VER frame. It sat with a dead battery in it for like a year. Took it out and replaced it and it took it a few minutes to start working again.

There is something in the manual about there being a service mode and you can adjust how hard the noid strikes the sear, but I can't figure out how to get it into service mode. All I see in the manual is how to change rate of fire etc.

[skipdogg]

Battery could be a issue too. Are you using a fresh duracell or something? I have found a rechargable 9.6V with too high a Mah rating (230 or 270) will mess up the functioning for some reason.

As for service mode....its hard to find for a reason. I feel it shouldnt be messed with in most circumstances. I feel your situation doesnt warrant you messing around with the settings. Others may disagree with that.

My suggestion, try the other on/off, and try to use a energizer or duracell regular 9V fresh battery.

[OPBN]

Pulled the battery right out of the pack. I was trying a different one, but its seemed to be fluctuating so I grabbed another. Tested it and it was at 9.4/9.5. Its just weird that is seems intermittent. Shouldn't the noid either work or not? If I pull it out of the frame it should still work right as long as its plugged in?

[skipdogg]

Shouldn't the noid either work or not? If I pull it out of the frame it should still work right as long as its plugged in?

Yes, I would think so.
Also, we are getting to about the end of my hyperframe knowledge. So from here on out I'll most likley not be too much help.

[maverick13]

Hit Sk8ermog, I think he could help you.
He built my hypermag, and it's working with a classic valve with a RT on/off.

Regardind the battery, on my side, I use paintball batteries.

[captian pinky]

Make sure that after you pull the battery off, to discharge the capacitor. People used to have issues about frying boards with these when they would leave it charged and accidentally touch the wrong terminals to the connector.
Sk8ermog should be able to help.

[ascent]

I can swap out a different on/off, but it just seem like it's either tripping the noid consistently or something. I take the battery out and put it back in and it kinda trips it a little, but slowly almost dies.

I tested the battery and its putting out 9+ volts. Could it be that the capacitor has been sitting uncharged for so long that it might need to charge for awhile before it will work? I know I had something similar happen on my VER frame. It sat with a dead battery in it for like a year. Took it out and replaced it and it took it a few minutes to start working again.

There is something in the manual about there being a service mode and you can adjust how hard the noid strikes the sear, but I can't figure out how to get it into service mode. All I see in the manual is how to change rate of fire etc.

Don't have any hyper frame knowledge, but have electronics knowledge.. A cap should charge almost instantly. If it's not then look at it and see if the lines on the top (of the capacitor, sometimes looks like a peace sign, sometimes looks like a "K") are anything other then flush... if they are swolen or broken then the cap is bad.

If you think the solenoid is intermittent then I would try to source one from solenoid city. They made the mq solenoids for e cockers back in the day and I would suspect that they would have something that may work in the 50 dollar range.

[fstop_22]

A hyperframe has a noid that works slightly different than what you might see on a spyder. The noid will only click once it has pressure on it. So if the gun isn't aired up, it won't click but it will say fire on the led. I just got a hyperframe a few months ago too and had a few issues with it at first as well. Sk8ermog is whom I bought my frame from and he is very knowledgeable. You will need at an RT on/off to get this to work properly or a hyperframe on/off (but in my case the hyperframe on/off gave me issues while the RT on/off worked fine). A classic on/off requires too much pressure and the noid will not be able to move it. Stoopid question but you did take a sear and remove the trigger arm? It still requires a sear to operate properly. (I know, stoopid question but had to ask). Is the safety installed? If yours is missing like mine, you can stick an allen wrench into the safety hole and place pressure against the noid. If you have a fresh battery, the noid should push back. If not, you may want to check that none of your wires got pinched when screwing the grips on. If you need pictures / video of my frame let me know and I'll post what you need.

edit - if you have a volt meter check to make sure your battery isn't below 8.5 volts.

[OPBN]

I initially tried it aired up and it was doing nothing. Tried taking the battery out and replacing it. When the battery was out I tried just using an allen wrench to push the back of the sear down to put pressure on the solenoid and it would trigger the noid intermittently. I have the left panel off when testing so no wires are being pinched. Yes it has a sear with the rod removed. As I mentioned above the battery is testing at 9.4/9.5.

I'll try at RT on/off tomorrow. Maybe even try putting an X in with a ULT to see if that makes a difference.

[captian pinky]

If it's been sitting awhile see if there is corrosion inside the noid. I think I remember some one saying that could happen.

[knownothingmags]

is the noid in the right position in the frame?
I know that's a dumb question.

[OPBN]

I don't see a way to open the noid looks to be in correct position to me.

[BigEvil]

I know this guy who is like an effen hyperframe guru... :rolleyes: :D

[OPBN]

I know this guy who is like an effen hyperframe guru... :rolleyes: :D

Sounds good. What do you see as the problem? Any specific steps to take to tech it? Any help you can offer would be appreciated. Not really looking to ship it out and have it fixed necessarily as my honest plans are to sell it. Wanting to make sure its working before I do.

[BigEvil]

If you are sure that the trigger wires and all of the connections are good, Get it into service mode and increase the dwell, for starters.

[BigEvil]

http://www.bigevilonline.com/showthread.php?t=2906

[OPBN]

http://www.bigevilonline.com/showthread.php?t=2906

Found that, went in and downloaded. I don't see how to get into service mode. It mentioned doing it, but didn't see where it shows you how unless I am missing something? I would say that since it powers up and the screen changes when I pull the trigger that the wires for the switch and battery must be ok. Only leaves the wires for the noid in question. I don't have a continuity tester so no real way for me to test the wires on that, but looking at them, they don't look pinched and seem to be solidly into the connectors and also into the noid.

[OPBN]

Ok. I googled it and found an old thread here that showed how to go into service mode. I raised the dwell to 9 which was the highest setting and doesn't do anything. I did find that if I move the noid around it seems to start and stop activating. I am starting to wonder if its not a bad noid, sticky noid, or maybe there is something loose inside of it that is causing it to work intermittently? Maybe a bad connection inside?

[BigEvil]

Remove the solenoid, and pull the plunger out. It might be corroded. It should move completely freely. If it doesnt, something is up. I have seen plenty that were gooed up and simply needed to be cleaned.

[OPBN]

How does it come apart? I pulled it out and don't see anyway of getting it open.

[BigEvil]

How does it come apart? I pulled it out and don't see anyway of getting it open.

REALLY? is the plunger missing?

[BigEvil]

There are two pieces, best image I can find. Thin part is the flat end of the plunger. Little nub sticks out the other side when its closed.


http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31WCnF72bVL._SY300_.jpg

[OPBN]

Mine appears to be stuck open. Just got the plunger out. Is there supposed to be some sort of spring inside that pushes the plunger back?

[BigEvil]

Mine appears to be stuck open. Just got the plunger out. Is there supposed to be some sort of spring inside that pushes the plunger back?

no

[OPBN]

no

What pushes the plunger back?

[BigEvil]

What pushes the plunger back?

The leg of the sear.

[Sk8ermog]

Yeah sounds like the noid plunger is bent or corroded. The noid is similar to a cocker E1 noid but just a little smaller. The trigger frame needs to be milled a little to make the cocker noid work correctly. If the plunger is bent then it won't slide back and forth correctly. Pictures of the noid would really help.

[OPBN]

There was some corrosion inside the noid so I put some penetrating oil on it and going to go back in a little to clean it up. I guess that's where it's different than a Spyder noid in that there isn't a spring to push it back?

[BigEvil]

Get some 0000 steel wool or emery cloth and clean up any corrosion you see. Penetrating oil will gum it up eventually.

[BigEvil]

There was some corrosion inside the noid so I put some penetrating oil on it and going to go back in a little to clean it up. I guess that's where it's different than a Spyder noid in that there isn't a spring to push it back?


Spyder noids are different. So are the APE Tippmann ones. The closest I found are the E2 noids. The APE ones work but you need to shorten up the plunger for it to work right.

[OPBN]

Get some 0000 steel wool or emery cloth and clean up any corrosion you see. Penetrating oil will gum it up eventually.

I was looking at something to break down the corrosion and then planned on cleaning it out with denatured alcohol. Thanks for the help, need to pull an RT on/off out of the pile somewhere and see if that helps.

[OPBN]

Woot! Got it working... Nifty. Might actually think about keeping it.

So yeah, I'm an idiot. Apparently there is a reason for the four little set screws in the top of the frame. :tard: Though the noid was super gunked up it seems to be working like a champ now.

Thanks for the help and primer on Hyperframeology.

[BigEvil]

I was looking at something to break down the corrosion and then planned on cleaning it out with denatured alcohol. Thanks for the help, need to pull an RT on/off out of the pile somewhere and see if that helps.

Emag On/off assembly works. Stock emag pin and make sure you use the quad oring.

[OPBN]

It's seems to be working decent with a standard RT on/off.

[Sk8ermog]

Glad to hear. Yeah those 4 set screws are very important to keep the noid in place so it doesn't work itself backwards. There are no springs to push the noid back. It's all based on the pressure of the on/off pushing the sear and noid back. A lot of people freak out thinking their hyperframe doesn't work cause it won't make a sound when they click the trigger. I do have a prototype hyperframe I got from Bunny that has a spring in it and a custom hyperframe board with a full auto 20bps but that is the only one I've seen with a spring to help the noid reset.

Yeah hyperframes are awesome and you should totally keep it. At least play one game with it some weekend so you can check it off your paintball bucket list. ;)

[OPBN]

Ok. I does seem to work fine, but of the 4 set screws only the set towards the back of the frame are really engaging. In order for the noid to be fully set back into the pocket so that it fits flush with the back side of the pocket the two front set screws if screwed in would actually hit off of the noid housing and interfere with the plunger. Is it supposed to be centered? It seems like if it was moved farther forward for the front two set screws to engage that it might not open up enough.

[BigEvil]

Noid should sit all the way towards the BACK of the frame with no problems.

[OPBN]

Noid should sit all the way towards the BACK of the frame with no problems.

Maybe I need to take a pic, but if I put the noid all the way towards the back of the frame the two front set screws on the top of the frame just miss the noid and would sit in the gap that would be there when the the plunger is all the way forward.

89924

Due to lighting I couldn't get a clear pic showing the set screws so I put an allen wrench showing where they would come down. Should I move the noid forward just enough to catch the set screws or leave it all the way back and just go with the two?

[BigEvil]

Maybe I need to take a pic, but if I put the noid all the way towards the back of the frame the two front set screws on the top of the frame just miss the noid and would sit in the gap that would be there when the the plunger is all the way forward.

89924

Due to lighting I couldn't get a clear pic showing the set screws so I put an allen wrench showing where they would come down. Should I move the noid forward just enough to catch the set screws or leave it all the way back and just go with the two?


Do the two screws near the front interfere with the plunger movement? If not, use them. You should use all 4 screws, that noid will move if its not secured.

[OPBN]

Do the two screws near the front interfere with the plunger movement? If not, use them. You should use all 4 screws, that noid will move if its not secured.

Yes they do. That's why I'm asking if the noid should be moved forward just enough so the set screws will catch it?

[BigEvil]

Yes they do. That's why I'm asking if the noid should be moved forward just enough so the set screws will catch it?

Yes! Try to shim the back of the solenoid against the pocket, but that might be tough.

[Sk8ermog]

Yeah the noid should sit with all 4 screws holding it down but the front screws not touching the clapper part of the noid. You are luck the set screws can even move. They normally get stripped and stuck.

Your noid should still have enough room to move back and forth to hit the sear. Try putting the body, rail and frame together and use an Allen key to push the sear down as far as it will go. If it goes down past the body and the front comes up enough to snag and hold the bolt then you should be fine. Make sense?

[OPBN]

Yeah the noid should sit with all 4 screws holding it down but the front screws not touching the clapper part of the noid. You are luck the set screws can even move. They normally get stripped and stuck.

Your noid should still have enough room to move back and forth to hit the sear. Try putting the body, rail and frame together and use an Allen key to push the sear down as far as it will go. If it goes down past the body and the front comes up enough to snag and hold the bolt then you should be fine. Make sense?

Yeah. I might just try sliding is forward, put temporary shim in to keep it solid while I screw the sets screws down to make sure its even and straight. If it stops working Ill just use the two back ones.