New R/T Mag Owner

[WholemealDrop]

So after my foray into cockers I decided to see what mags were all about. Traded for an R/T mag and should be here by the end of the week. Any tips for a new comer to the mag community?

[C_losjoker]

Hide, lock your wallet or give it to your wife.

Drop some oil in before screwing in the tank, if airs up no leaks get out of the field to have fun.

[ScottyBeans]

Does it have a lvl 10 bolt?

[Levi]

Classic RT or RT Pro?

If its the classic RT, get a parabolic powerfeed plug if it doesn't already have one.

[WholemealDrop]

No idea what bolt system it has. Previous owner hadn't used it in awhile. It is a classic RT. Did a little reading and saw about the powerfeed plug. Will have to get one.

This is what I got from the seller as a picture.

90410

[flampaint]

Hide, lock your wallet or give it to your wife.


how very true! :rofl:

[Cyco-Dude]

it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to pick up an rt parts kits as well while you're at it. to get the most out of those you'll need high pressure output from the tank. a ninja shp regulator on the tank would turn this into a machine gun; i think 950-1,000 psi would do nicely. just don't go too nuts with it or you can chip the sear. the rt classic sear has carbide inserts, and while it is hard and resists wear, it's also brittle and can chip.

[WholemealDrop]

Most fields around me limit BPS to 10-15 I think so a normal Ninja tank will do fine for me, plus I don' want to invest in a new tank/reg. AGD still the best place to get parts?

If I end up liking this I will likely upgrade to something else. Always liked the look of PTP stuff.

General mag questions:
1. What is an RTP sear?

2. Compatibility differences? I know some frames have "wings" vs. flat top but anything else to keep in mind? I think I read that a Classic R/T mag will only work with Classic R/T parts (body, rail, etc.)

3. What does a on/off on a mag do?

4. What does the ULT and powertube spacers really do?

5. Why is everything so dang expensive?

[blackdeath1k]

Although most fields cap markers. Mags tend to fall thru the cap since they are not electronic markers. From what I've seen. As long as you don't cause an issue hosing opponents. No one will ever say a word about your mag.

[WholemealDrop]

And I'm one of the few that don't hose people without reason.

6. Any special type of oil to use or regular paintball oil like Gold Cup good enough?

[ScottyBeans]

Most fields around me limit BPS to 10-15 I think so a normal Ninja tank will do fine for me, plus I don' want to invest in a new tank/reg. AGD still the best place to get parts?

If I end up liking this I will likely upgrade to something else. Always liked the look of PTP stuff.

General mag questions:
1. What is an RTP sear? RTP = RT Pro, and is like your RT but compatible with mainstream automag parts. The sear is the part that holds the bolt back and also operates the on/off

2. Compatibility differences? I know some frames have "wings" vs. flat top but anything else to keep in mind? I think I read that a Classic R/T mag will only work with Classic R/T parts (body, rail, etc.) Classic RT bodies, rails, and valves will only work with classic RTs. Other Mags are fully modular. The classic RT has a gas thru rail that most mags don't have, so the rear screw is actually a banjo bolt

3. What does a on/off on a mag do? The on/off seals the chamber off from the regulator, so that the same amount of air is used each time you shoot. That's my understanding, anyways.

4. What does the ULT and powertube spacers really do? ULT makes the trigger pull lighter. Not sure what powertube spacers are really there for, but someone here will

5. Why is everything so dang expensive? not sure but it's worth it :)

And 6- regular paintball oil is perfect.

[vintage]

RTP= RT Pro--the RT sear is a different shape than the classic sear do to the difference shape of the bolt face and all RT's must use an RT sear to prevent wear.

the RT classic is a one off design, only RT classic parts will fit with exception of a couple of things. the wings refers to the grip frame that fits the old classic mag rails. all RT classic thru current ULE rails are flat on the bottom and take grip frames without wings

the on/off uses a pin that pushes the sear back to reset the trigger, it also shuts off air flow from the back half of the valve to the front, it is the source of most leaks in a mag as the o rings wear or get trash on them, the o rings are easy to change(anywhere on a mag) when needed. on an RT mag the pin length can be altered to affect the amount of RT effect you get but that is not always needed or wanted.

ULT stands for ultra light trigger which is supposed to lessen the trigger pull, it also will reduce the RT effect i'm told. the easiest way to get a softer trigger pull is to use a double trigger frame.

the power tube spacer goes in side the power tube on the classic valve to take the place of a tension spring, what it does is position the bolt in the correct spot to prevent leaks, if the bolt is too far back or too far forward it power tube will start to leak.

expensive compared to what? personally $1200.00 for a LUXE or a Dye Dam is nuts. compared to some of the newer markers which are made overseas yes they can be a little expensive. the Mag market is not near as big as the markets for the newer markers and with the design of some of the parts it takes a lot of time to mill the parts and that adds cost. the Mag and Cocker are the classic car of the paintball marker industry and like all toys they cost a little more.

welcome to the addiction that is the Automag

[vintage]

Scotty Beans covered it in less words than I could.

somehow while I was typing all that I was logged of the forum and had to start all over.

[Runamok]

same happened to me but you guys have it covered. Don't think you haven't bought a fine gun. The RT mag paved the way for some great markers.The design is over 20 years old and still scares the piss out of electro users . And it's still one of the best. Air tool oil is the same thing and easier to get.

[Cyco-Dude]

Most fields around me limit BPS to 10-15 I think so a normal Ninja tank will do fine for me, plus I don' want to invest in a new tank/reg. AGD still the best place to get parts?
either agd (http://www.airgundesignsusa.com/), or tunamart (http://www.tunamart.com/), or ansgear (http://www.ansgear.com/) for some common things.


1. What is an RTP sear?
is it the sear that comes in newer rt pros, ule automags and tac-1 automags, and is fully compatible with the automag rt classic.


2. Compatibility differences? I know some frames have "wings" vs. flat top but anything else to keep in mind? I think I read that a Classic R/T mag will only work with Classic R/T parts (body, rail, etc.)
you are correct, the rt classic is it's own beast. the rt classic valve, body and rail are all meant to go together, and are not compatible with other automags. frames with wings are meant for classic automag rails, and will not fit rt classic, rt pro, emag or ule rails without having the wings milled off.


3. What does a on/off on a mag do?
controls the flow of air within the automag valve.


4. What does the ULT and powertube spacers really do?
the ult on/off reduces the pull weight of the trigger, at the expense of a lot of the reactivity the stock rt on/off has. the ult on/off is not compatible with the rt classic and older rt pros without having the valve milled to accommodate the ult. powertube spacers go in the powertube and are used with lvl 7 bolts. they come in different sizes and adjust the point at which the powertube o-ring seals against the bolt stem. the longer the powertube spacer, the further back on the bolt stem the o-ring sits. the shorter the spacer, the further up the o-ring sits, which can cause excess friction. you really shouldn't have to worry about this; as long as you have a spacer you're good to go. most of my automags have a .215 or .220 spacer in them.


5. Why is everything so dang expensive?
this level of craftsmanship and quality are not cheap. there is a reason 20-year-old automags still work today, with just a change of a few o-rings and / or a few drops of oil in the asa.

as for which oil to use, any synthetic oil is fine.

[WholemealDrop]

Thanks for all the info guys. Just to clarify, a lot of my questions are about mags in general, not just pertaining to the Classic RT mag. Pretty excited to join in on the fun of owning a mag.

As for everything being so expensive I guess has to do more with the fact that yes a lot of it is all custom but with a smaller buying pool. Was looking at bodies today and some were as high as $200 and with my limited knowledge not much different than stock bodies. Similarly a simple cocker body could be had for well under $100 but that is with a higher buying pool. Supply and demand at its finest. Either way I've accumulated a few ideas to add to my paintball projects list.

[ScottyBeans]

Thanks for all the info guys. Just to clarify, a lot of my questions are about mags in general, not just pertaining to the Classic RT mag. Pretty excited to join in on the fun of owning a mag.

As for everything being so expensive I guess has to do more with the fact that yes a lot of it is all custom but with a smaller buying pool. Was looking at bodies today and some were as high as $200 and with my limited knowledge not much different than stock bodies. Similarly a simple cocker body could be had for well under $100 but that is with a higher buying pool. Supply and demand at its finest. Either way I've accumulated a few ideas to add to my paintball projects list.

Yeah, the expensive bodies are really expensive, and the cheap bodies are really cheap. I like to think of it as "there's something for everyone". I usually stick to regular ULE bodies since they do the whole "lightweight, center feed, cocker threaded" thing so right at a pretty affordable price. About $100 or so, usually.

Maybe someday I'll buy or build a sweet custom bodied mag though, who knows?

[WholemealDrop]

Light weight will be my next step if I end up really liking the RT. At least something that is center feed and cocker threaded. Already have a sweet freak barrel for all my cocker threaed guns, don't want to hunt around for one that is twist lock.

[Cyco-Dude]

Light weight will be my next step if I end up really liking the RT. At least something that is center feed and cocker threaded. Already have a sweet freak barrel for all my cocker threaed guns, don't want to hunt around for one that is twist lock.
you're out of luck if that's what you want to do with a classic rt. remember the whole "incompatible with other automags" stuff? you could try to find one of xmagterror's ule classic rt bodies though. also, you can get a twistlock-to-cocker adapter for your automag, so you can use 'cocker threaded barrels.

[blackdeath1k]

Light weight will be my next step if I end up really liking the RT. At least something that is center feed and cocker threaded. Already have a sweet freak barrel for all my cocker threaed guns, don't want to hunt around for one that is twist lock.

I've actually got a full TL freak kit in case for sale. Lol.

In all seriousness. You really can't do a lot to Lighten a classic RT. I love mine. But due to the body design and air passage in the rail it makes for curve balls.

[going_home]

Got a classic RT project going myself.

I have a twist lock to cocker thread adapter, and a clamping feedneck for powerfeed that I'm not going to use.

Decided to get an XMT body instead.

LMK

[WholemealDrop]

Classic RT is just the first mag. If I end up liking the way it shoots I'll upgrade to something else. Not saying I'm going to try and do stuff to this one.

[C_losjoker]

Not saying I'm going to try and do stuff to this one.

HAHA HAHAHA. I think we have all said this about a mag at one time to ourselves. Then it's, oh I rather have a double or single trigger frame, oh that piece is exactly what I need to complement my mag. Next thing you know, you have ten mags.

on the behalf of everyone here welcome to the group and we apologize on your new addiction.

[WholemealDrop]

Haha thanks for the welcomes everyone. I definitely know the wallet squeeze from building cockers. This gun will definitely be mainly stock. Any changes will purely be for function. Already had to remove the drop and on/off since my tank with a myth reg was too short and couldn't screw it in.

New questions: could barely get the gun to RT very fast before i start seeing shootdown. Any ideas? And how do I tell what bolt i have? It has the foamie insert but besides that I don't know.

[Laku]

If the bolt stem is hollow and there's wrench removable tip in power tube, it's lvl 10.

[C_losjoker]

Mags are air hogs, to keep the valve up with trigger pull specially in a RT, you need a high output tank. 900 min, 1000 is what most guys go for when they want to RT and have high RPS.

take the valve out, take the bolt off, if the tip of the valve has a hexagon brass tip it is level 10, if it has a brass tip that is round with two cut grooves where a flat screw driver will fit, it is level 7.

[WholemealDrop]

Sweet got a level 10 bolt. Powertube has the hex head and bolt stem is hollow. I knew mags want SHP but I figured standard 850PSI would be able to RT relatively ok but guess not.

How should I oil the mag? Just standard few drops into the ASA and cycle or pull the valve and oil by hand?

Best recommendation for a feed elbow? Heard good things about Armson and APP elbows I think.

[blackdeath1k]

Sweet got a level 10 bolt. Powertube has the hex head and bolt stem is hollow. I knew mags want SHP but I figured standard 850PSI would be able to RT relatively ok but guess not.

How should I oil the mag? Just standard few drops into the ASA and cycle or pull the valve and oil by hand?

Best recommendation for a feed elbow? Heard good things about Armson and APP elbows I think.


With a very high flowing valve that will make one rt decent. But the level 10 hi ders that from my experience. I personally use a classic rt with a level 7 bolt and a ninja v2 pro bottle reg set with an indicated 850 output. It RTS plenty to make me happy. And I know it will rt like mad with 1k input. My wife's rt on the other hand has a level 10 in it and does not really rt at all with 850 psi output.

I oil mine through the ASA with the barrel removed unless I'm pulling the valve for other reasons.

Arms on elbows are cheap and work great. I've got a few of them as backups for when I finally break my 20 year old VLBow.

[Cyco-Dude]

my classic rt's never had much bounce at 850 psi, even with lvl 7 bolts. even at 950 psi they don't really bounce. maybe i just need to break the o-rings in since they're new? my rt pro and x-valves worked great at 950 psi though.

2nd on armson elbows, but loaders with huge feednecks (halo, vmax, rotor) won't fit without sanding them down. a viewloader revolution fits nice and snug, you just have to loosen the bolt all the way. do not get the 1" universal; the inserts they include for those to fit onto 7/8" od necks are too fat. i had to shave down all of my inserts in order to get the elbow onto a 7/8 od neck.

[Spider-TW]

New questions: could barely get the gun to RT very fast before i start seeing shootdown. Any ideas?

So, what kind of tank are you feeding it with? Sorry if it's posted in here.

I have met an 850 psi, CP regged bottle that wouldn't keep up with an EPmag on limp. The older HP crossfires that are closer to 800 psi typically keep up, but they usually won't drive the RT much at all. A 950 psi Ninja is just right for my three RT/X setups (at slightly different rates). I had some adjustable regs, but now I change the marker instead of the pressure. :)

[WholemealDrop]

Running a Myth reg set to 850 psi on a 68/4500 stubby tank. Well so long as it shoots I'll be happy for now. Since I kind of like the way it feels and the possibilities for creating something that suits my style out of all the parts available I may just end up buying a SHP tank from Ninja down the road.

[vintage]

I have 6 rt classics and each one has a different bounce off the same tank, some are almost too reactive and others wont hardly bounce at all off of a 1200 psi regulator. sear rod adjustment is the second most critical component to make one bounce that I have found. the level 10 requires you to screw the back of the valve in more to make it work and mine pretty much quits working around 1000 psi left in the tank.

enjoy

[Konigballer]

I have 6 rt classics and each one has a different bounce off the same tank

Good collection of RT's! Got any pics of that stable?

[blackdeath1k]

Vintage reminded me. On off pin lingth matters a lot. Most are 0.750. Mine is actually 0.744. So that could be a big part of the difference in rt effect.

[vintage]

[QUOTE=Konigballer;2872884]Good collection of RT's! Got any pics of that stable?[/QUOTE

shortly i hope, thats only half of the stable though.

[WholemealDrop]

Can I adjust the pin length? I looks like it is threaded.

[Laku]

Can I adjust the pin length? I looks like it is threaded.

You are probably talking about sear rod?

This is on/off pin. Adjustment happens by slowly grinding it down.. Or you can just order the length you want from Tuna.
http://imageserv11.team-logic.com/store-logic/products/253/1/8/6/5/108.jpg

[blackdeath1k]

Yes. A shorter on off pin will give more reactivity. BUT its a fine line getting the reactivity you want. And making it uncontrollable. My personal classic rt has always had a 0.744 pin.

[WholemealDrop]

Ok loads I don't know/understand then. How would I go about tuning my Classic RT to RT better? I know SHP would probably be the simplest way to go about it making it more reactive but I don't have the funds to buy a new tank or reg.

[Laku]

Safest, and probably easiest as well, would be buying few different sizes from Tuna. At very least I would get a backup pin in case you shortened the current too far and got uncontrollable valve.

[Cyco-Dude]

Ok loads I don't know/understand then. How would I go about tuning my Classic RT to RT better?

...by increasing the output pressure of the tank, is the proper way to do it.

[blackdeath1k]

...by increasing the output pressure of the tank, is the proper way to do it.

Yes that is correct. I wouldn't have brought up the pin at all if someone else hadn't commented on multiple RTS that all act different. The pin is a major culprit in that. But is most deffinately not considered a standard method of gaining rt effect. Personally I would not wasn't a shorter pin than what I have now. To many potential problems can come with a short pin.

[WholemealDrop]

Ok I figured the proper way would be upping my input pressure but 850 is what I have to work with now. Guess I'll just have to sell stuff or save up and buy a new tank.

[OPBN]

Ok I figured the proper way would be upping my input pressure but 850 is what I have to work with now. Guess I'll just have to sell stuff or save up and buy a new tank.

If your tank is still ok, you can just put the SHP reg on it. Unless it's a 3k tank.

[Spider-TW]

... and mine pretty much quits working around 1000 psi left in the tank.

If you mean the way the RT quits, I really like that feature. When you are really pushing paint, it makes a good "low level" alarm. Then you have a hundred or two rounds before empty that you can try to defend yourself with or get a replacement when you have a nice spot (which is why you were going through the paint anyway).

[WholemealDrop]

If your tank is still ok, you can just put the SHP reg on it. Unless it's a 3k tank.

ya but it isn't my tank. Borrowing it long term from a buddy when he upgraded to a Ninja SL when those came out. Going to get a 68/45 SL with the Pro reg and a SHP reg eventually. Would regular mags still want SHP? Such as an X-Valve? Don't overly care if I have crazy RT all the time. A nice mech setup will do me fine or I might new a Pnuemag.

[blackdeath1k]

My wife uses a 850psi output crossfire tank on her RTPro with level X without a problem. (RTP, retro, emag, x valve all work the exact same). It doesn't have the rt effect my classic rt valve has. But its nothing to shake a stick at. My classic rt on my gun I feed with 850psi from a ninja pro V2 reg. It has more rt than her mag. But it also has a shorter on off pin.

If you have shoot down with a 850psi reg then my guess is its because the reg has poor flow capability. Not so much because of the psi.

[vintage]

If you mean the way the RT quits, I really like that feature. When you are really pushing paint, it makes a good "low level" alarm. Then you have a hundred or two rounds before empty that you can try to defend yourself with or get a replacement when you have a nice spot (which is why you were going through the paint anyway).

no, it just flat wont fire

[blackdeath1k]

no, it just flat wont fire

That's odd. My classic rt will fire down to about 600psi. But once its below set pressure its reactivity and distance start going down. So I know to ration shots from there on out. When I had a 1k input it was real nice. Had buffer room. Now with less than 900 input my buffer is a lot smaller.

[WholemealDrop]

My wife uses a 850psi output crossfire tank on her RTPro with level X without a problem. (RTP, retro, emag, x valve all work the exact same). It doesn't have the rt effect my classic rt valve has. But its nothing to shake a stick at. My classic rt on my gun I feed with 850psi from a ninja pro V2 reg. It has more rt than her mag. But it also has a shorter on off pin.

If you have shoot down with a 850psi reg then my guess is its because the reg has poor flow capability. Not so much because of the psi.

I use it on everything though from my Marq Rapper, cockers, Tippmanns (with and without RT), and various pumps no issues ever.

[WholemealDrop]

Curious what I would need to take this back to stock. I know I'm not far from it. What else would I need besides an RT sight rail? What type of ASA did these come stock with? And I'm torn, I like the chunky AGD grips it has but really don't like composite frames. Is there an aluminum version that would take these grips or would switching to a different single trigger frame be a good idea?

[Cyco-Dude]

Curious what I would need to take this back to stock. I know I'm not far from it. What else would I need besides an RT sight rail? What type of ASA did these come stock with? And I'm torn, I like the chunky AGD grips it has but really don't like composite frames. Is there an aluminum version that would take these grips or would switching to a different single trigger frame be a good idea?
it would need the dust black aluminum sight rail, and the rt foregrip. they did not come with asas; it had a beefy cast 90-degree elbow and a male quick-disconnect fitting in the foregrip. it's not very practical though, so i just use the agd bottom bottle adapter (http://www.tunamart.com/index.php?c=27&p=131). to connect it to the foregrip you can use two elbows and a 7" stainless hose, or two elbows, a quick-disconnect and a 5.5" stainless hose.

the composite frames are very strong, and are the lightest frames agd has. agd lifted a small car with one of those frames to demonstrate their strength lol.

[WholemealDrop]

So the RT Classic game with the RT grip not a bike grip?

[blackdeath1k]

So the RT Classic game with the RT grip not a bike grip?

Here is my personal RT. The Y was not stock. Or the barrel. But the hardliners/for grip/sight rail/Ect is OEM from its original purchase.

Pretty sure the only thing I've ever done to this marker is change grip frames, barrels, and air system. It even still has a level 7 bolt and its original rt on off.

[WholemealDrop]

Ok cool. I like the look of the RT foregrip better anyway.

[blackdeath1k]

Ok cool. I like the look of the RT foregrip better anyway.

It is very comfortable. And I love its look. That's why it stays. The rubber actually turns. On mine at least. And 99% or the time its at a 45° angle offset to the right. So comfy for my left hand. But if you go shopping for an original for grip make sure you are looking for a classic rt one. Them and the RTP actually have a few differences. The biggest being that the RTP for grip is NOT gas thru. Also the classic rt sightrail is more of a solid AL. Unlike the RTP that had a stamped SS one. In case you go looking for that as well.

[WholemealDrop]

Good to know thanks guys. On the hunt for a RT foregrip and sightrail now along with an AGD ASA

[WholemealDrop]

Finally had a chance to take it out. Holy cow this thing is fun! Need to get a new elbow though, one seller provided is cracking.

[OPBN]

PTP makes a very nice elbow that is pretty indestructible. I think its Allen PB or maybe Bacci that has one as well. The cheap clear plastic ones put bluntly suck.

http://www.proteamdirect.com/arprofel.html

[Cyco-Dude]

i'll agree with that; i use pro-feed elbows exclusively. but, they can't really fit loaders with fat necks (halo, rotor, vmax). i do have a halo that barely fits, but the neck was sanded down quite a bit.

app has one, but you have to use hose clamps on it, which looks ugly in my opinion.

[OPBN]

Really? I had one that I used a Halo on all the time and it wasn't an issue at all.

[Cyco-Dude]

my experience is with 20 or so new elbows purchased this year, three halos, a vmax and a rotor. i can force a halo on there if i take the screw out, but would not be comfortable with it long-term...i'd be worried about it splitting or weakening one of the tabs or something. it spreads the two halves of the elbow pretty far apart. i would just sand the loader's neck a bit if i were using said loaders...a dremel makes it a quick task. *shrugs* just my .02, which is only worth .01 lol.

[vintage]

i havn't had any problems with the ones i have bought from ii sports clearance they are all the older style ones as near as in can tell. i do have to just about take the screw out to get it on a halo but i've never had any problems or felt insecure about them.

[WholemealDrop]

Ya going in I knew I would need to buy a new elbow before I even got it. Wasn't in too bad of condition when I received it but just trying to make it snug on the marker and Revvy it started to crack. Probably going to go with the PTP elbow since it is black and doesn't need hose clamps. Would love to buy one of those aluminum elbows but $50 is far too much for me.