Should I buy an Automag?

[cmaples]

At the risk of getting my account banned...here goes.

A long time ago I opted for the autocockers instead of the mags. My cockers are wearing out and breaking down so I'm in the market for a new marker and the little kid in me still dreams about having an Automag. I didn't anticipate the dedicated collector following and suffered a bit of sticker shock. Trying to buy or piece together the mag I want is probably going to set me back between 500 and 600 bucks, possibly more. Would I be better off just buying a new Empire Axe or something? This isn't meant to be a "marker x is better than marker Y" thread. But I am kind of curious what motivates everyone. Is it like a classic car thing? Sure they don't have air bags or great gas mileage but they're really cool and you just love em...to torture the analogy... or is there something else about them you love?

What would you do in my shoes?

Dreaming of a warp fed version of this automag
90628

Dreaming of this "classic car" ;-)
90627

[wetwrks]

An axe is nice but they will never hold up in the long run like an Automag will.

I would look for a complete mag with an x valve and a ule body. Then start buying and trading parts to get it like you like it. Frankly...some parts that people rave about and I thought I would absolutely love I ended up not liking and other parts that I didn't think I would like I have ended up absolutely loving.

Think of automags as the Lego system of the paintball world. Mix and match till you get what works for you. The parts all sell well and tend to hold their value.

[C_losjoker]

ever had one or played with one? if not pick up a classic, play with it for a while to see if its for you. very rare but there are some that mags are not for them, one guy buys a mag every other year thinking he did not give them a fair chance, 1-3 months later he sells it, has done this 6-7 times.

[Cyco-Dude]

A long time ago I opted for the autocockers instead of the mags. My cockers are wearing out and breaking down so I'm in the market for a new marker and the little kid in me still dreams about having an Automag. I didn't anticipate the dedicated collector following and suffered a bit of sticker shock. Trying to buy or piece together the mag I want is probably going to set me back between 500 and 600 bucks, possibly more. Would I be better off just buying a new Empire Axe or something? This isn't meant to be a "marker x is better than marker Y" thread. But I am kind of curious what motivates everyone. Is it like a classic car thing? Sure they don't have air bags or great gas mileage but they're really cool and you just love em...to torture the analogy... or is there something else about them you love?

What would you do in my shoes?
yeah, i think the classic car analogy works very well for these old tournament markers. i like how robust and easy to work on automags are, and i like the plain aesthetic as well.

warp-fed y-grip ule...yeah, that won't be cheap. i'll go with C_losjoker here...it might be best to try before you buy if possible. $600 is a lot to drop on something you might not like.

[bowcycle]

yeah, i think the classic car analogy works very well for these old tournament markers. i like how robust and easy to work on automags are, and i like the plain aesthetic as well.

warp-fed y-grip ule...yeah, that won't be cheap. i'll go with C_losjoker here...it might be best to try before you buy if possible. $600 is a lot to drop on something you might not like.

On the plus side, as has been mentioned, parts hold their value well. So if you get a good deal the first time around, you probably won't lose much money if you decide it's not for you.
However, I will make this one suggestion, don't start with a y-grip. I have had multiple z and y-grips and always end up going back to either a vert frame or 45* frame. Find a mag with a nice intelliframe, then if you decide you want to go even tighter in your setup, you can usually find a y-grip floating around here on the BST.

[bowcycle]

sorry for the double

[vintage]

the only problem i see is the warp feed is no longer made and the used ones are getting pricey, they've been averaging around $150.00 on ebay lately.

mags are super simple to work on and there's lots of help here if you have a problem. used ULE's can be found between $300 and $400 quite often.

and they are the classic muscle car.

[JKR]

Yep, I and several others have used the classic car analogy before and it does fit the situation pretty well. Unless you like that very sort of thing, it is hard to explain and make others understand that position since logically, it isn't a position that one might hold. Oh...here is a marker that is lighter, more efficient, faster, and has a lifetime warranty from the manufacturer and you want...THAT?! Unless you dig it, you might not be able to make someone understand our obsession.

I started off my 'Mag obsession about 12 years ago...something like that. I had always liked them (local guy used them religiously with great effect) but never bought one. Snagged one off of eBay and have been in love ever since. One thing I love that is easy to explain is the rock-solid reliability. I use Classic valves with Level 7 bolts and my 'Mags are every bit as reliable as a Tippmann. The never need adjustment or messing with. Oil, air and good orings and springs are all I need to keep my 'Mags happy. Many love the Level 10 bolt for the positives it brings to the table but I have always had pretty good fortune using my Level 7 bolts and prefer the simplicity of the design. I love the "feel" of my 'Mags. I use the CF frame with rubber grips on each of them because I am used to the feel and LOVE it. It fits my hand like a well-made glove and provides a level of familiarity when I pick each of them up that helps me be more comfortable and accurate when I play. Each of my 'Mags feels SOLID...the perfectly engineered package doesn't feel cheap in my hand and the heft is something I am used to and don't consider as a significant problem. However, I will say I have a Micromag that is lighter than my Minimag and it will often get the nod on days where lighter is better...big, day long events with alot of humping up and down the hills for objectives. If you are going for a ULE body, don't be afraid of the additional weight (albeit small) that you will have over an Axe. I doubt the weight will be a deal breaker in the end, after you buy a 'Mag and shoot one for a while. Furthermore, another hard to explain plus of the Automag for me is shooting it. For me, the feel and sound of shooting an Automag is just...wonderful...mechanical perfection. Sounds stupid...but there it is.

In the end, it is going to be a matter of taste. Some of my reasons for liking it may not be yours. As has been said above, if you don't like the 'Mag you have constructed, you probably won't have any trouble selling it and recouping 75% of your investment if it has been well cared for.

Good luck in your decision...hope you join the brotherhood!

[Nobody]

I fully suggest that if you can borrow one for a game or 2 just to get the feel of it. Axes do shoot extremely close to how a Mag shoots but even then mags are mags.

But the love of Mags comes a lot from their simplicity(2 screws takes the entire gun apart), ease of maintenance(2 critical orings that could go wrong, but a few drops of oil generally take care of 90% of any leaks), a true anti-chop bolt(no one else has eger put their tongue where their mouth is on the capabilities of their gun) and the modularity of the gun(you can take a mech mag, turn it into a pump and then into an electro within 5min or so) and you finally have the fastest valve in existence(the fabled RT test was capable of 35bps+, the Xvalve is just the all aluminium version of that).

As a single platform, there is not many other guns than can touch the flexibility of the gun. There are some disadvantages to Mags. Most people site them as end-all hate but yet that is not the determing factor on why these guns are some of the greatest. The efficiency is poor compared to most poppits and some spools, but all day air fixes that. Weight is a factor. The stainless valves do weigh a lot and even the most compact package is stupid heavy. Carbon fiber, ULE milling do help but it does give a solid feel to the gun. Lack parts is a slight problem as well as overall costs. Its just that not many people could improve on the designs and the aftermarket parts that are out there, people hold onto so it drives the costs up. The Y frame was like $70ish new, but it has grown to double that price on the open market.

Mags are just great. Nothing else feels like them, nothing shoots like them. You gotta remember that Mags have been around since the early 90's, what other company is still doin that?

[cmaples]

Gents,
Thanks for all the great insight and advice. This is a great forum.

I did get to play a few games with my friend's classic, which started my love affair. Currently the plan is to put a qloader on it so no worries about the warps not being made anymore.

I think you guys nudged me into pulling the trigger...end goal being something like the below
90633

[Cyco-Dude]

If you are going for a ULE body, don't be afraid of the additional weight (albeit small) that you will have over an Axe.
yeah, a stock ule automag is ~2.5 ounces heavier, but my ule is 3 ounces lighter. carbon fiber for the win! :p


...a true anti-chop bolt(no one else has eger put their tongue where their mouth is on the capabilities of their gun)
the smart parts vibe / gog envy is mechanical anti-chop as well...see here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuvBMccPWyw).


You gotta remember that Mags have been around since the early 90's, what other company is still doin that?
tippmann! :D

[Nobody]

Ok, you got me on 2 minor points... point is still they have been around a long time and 10 years after the L10, someone decided to implement it.

[Cyco-Dude]

true enough; agd was way ahead of the curve.

[JKR]

Gents,
Thanks for all the great insight and advice. This is a great forum.

I did get to play a few games with my friend's classic, which started my love affair. Currently the plan is to put a qloader on it so no worries about the warps not being made anymore.

I think you guys nudged me into pulling the trigger...end goal being something like the below
90633

Outstanding!

If you want, I have a Classic Mag up for sale. No serious nibbles now for a while so if you want to pay the shipping to and from, I will lend it to you for a few months to see if you like it. Try it out...see if you like it before taking the leap. Its a Classic w/L7 ANS bolt and nothing fancy. The mil-simmy shroud and stock can be removed if you don't like them... Here is a picture of it.

90634

[Nobody]

One of the biggest points to the Mag is with the modular body system. You can have 100 different mags together, yet no 2 are the same. I have pictures of this very fact(they are in my photobucket & i am on a phone. Those pics are from the past 2 Tunaballs). So its not like you have to do a huge amount to have a very personal gun. Its just finding and paying for the parts that becomes the hard part.

[AGD]

I love this kind of thread! :)

AGD

[zondo]

Gents,
Thanks for all the great insight and advice. This is a great forum.

I did get to play a few games with my friend's classic, which started my love affair. Currently the plan is to put a qloader on it so no worries about the warps not being made anymore.

I think you guys nudged me into pulling the trigger...end goal being something like the below
90633

I like that setup! :cheers:

[NU_METAL]

Ive always said that :
" Automag's & Autococker's are the Mustang's & Camaro's of the paintball world "

Muscle Markers :D

[Spider-TW]

I love this kind of thread! :)

AGD

Back when AO was struggling with its need of updates, many of us set up shop on MCB so that some info would be sure to be propagated. We have chewed quite a few ears off over there. :D

[DeuceSV]

Once you ping someone in the dome with a mechanical mag, you'll never go back. Incredibly satisfying.

[Cyco-Dude]

hey, did you see this 'mag yet (http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=4489777)? pretty fair for what you get.

[Nobody]

hey, did you see this 'mag yet (http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=4489777)? pretty fair for what you get.

Damn, that's a good price for what it comes with it. Parted, you would spend more for everything there: the X valve, Yframe & ULE body. The rest is just "Sauce for the Goose, Mr. Savik".

[cmaples]

Thanks! i'll hit him up for the details.

[flampaint]

Buy one. You won't regret it and it will most likely not be your last Mag. :D
Personally I like the modularity Automags offer - being able to swap and combine rails/frames/bodies/valves in such a wide array of combinations is quite unique in my opinion. And like most other people here, I always dreamt of getting a "fully-loaded" Mag back in the 90s...

[OneSelfLost]

I LOVE my mags.. I have owned quite a few different markers in my days - tippys, cockers, phantoms, an ion, and a piranha.. most of which are gone now - and always find myself bagging them back up mid morning and busting out my mag. The crisp trigger pull, the stability, the modularity to make it comfortable for YOU.. They are just awesome. You're an experienced autococker guy, so you must like to tinker. They very much are the lego of paintball markers. Build it, strip it, reconfig it. You'll have fun!

This is my incredibly biased opinion.. lol

[38super]

Maintaining the muscle car analogy; "There's no substitute for raw horsepower."
I have only two Mags; a level 7 I bought new and now use for loners when guys have their various flavors of electro's cack on them and an RT ULE (with ULT) that I also bought new and enhanced with 1200 psi tank. Other than that and a good barrel, it's all stock. It gives up nothing to the electro guns in my opinion.

[Nobody]

More to the point, you can get a poop-eating grin when you go up to the chrono range or in the field and you lay a stupid RoF down with a mech. That is just a RT type valve with some on/off magic, not counting a ULT, pneumatics or a more than 800psi tank(my Xvalve is set up on a 800psi older crossfire and when i hit that sweet spot, i can empty a hopper).

[Cyco-Dude]

well, looks like you got a nice one cmaples, have fun with it!

[going_home]

Nice snag.

Its generally less money to get a fully upgraded mag than to buy parts upgrading a classic.

;)

[Spider-TW]

Nice snag.

Its generally less money to get a fully upgraded mag than to buy parts upgrading a classic.

;)

The phrase "upgrading a classic" strikes me as odd lately. Sometimes I just want to play with a classic. Not necessarily a stock classic, but I tend to think of them as different animals.

I think about "changing" a mag, as opposed to "upgrading" it. It's just a side effect of having multiple mags I guess. The odd part is how often we say "upgrade" when I see a lot of other people building on classics still.

[ScottyBeans]

The phrase "upgrading a classic" strikes me as odd lately. Sometimes I just want to play with a classic. Not necessarily a stock classic, but I tend to think of them as different animals.

I think about "changing" a mag, as opposed to "upgrading" it. It's just a side effect of having multiple mags I guess. The odd part is how often we say "upgrade" when I see a lot of other people building on classics still.

Once you have a few mags, I agree. However, for those with one classic mag, they are still in that "upgrade" stage.

I know what you mean when you say sometimes you just want to play with a classic, though. When that happens I reach for the steel bodied RT pro.

[going_home]

The phrase "upgrading a classic" strikes me as odd lately. Sometimes I just want to play with a classic. Not necessarily a stock classic, but I tend to think of them as different animals.

I think about "changing" a mag, as opposed to "upgrading" it. It's just a side effect of having multiple mags I guess. The odd part is how often we say "upgrade" when I see a lot of other people building on classics still.

Semantics.....

Ask the newby what he's doing and he'll say upgrading.

Start with a bone stock classic, buy parts to turn it into an RT Pro (most times this is the eventual end of the process), even if you subtract the cost of the original marker you likely have spent more on the parts than if you had just bought an RT Pro to begin with.

That was the point in case it was missed.

;)

[zondo]

I started with a PF classic with a magic box and a benchy double trigger. Sold a couple of pieces and bought a CF no-rise body, RT-pro with level-10, and i-frame. Somehow that morphed into a cheater pneumag, then a M-90 pneumag, and now it is a Venomous Designs rail and foregrip, ULE, reverse "X-Valve", with both E-90 and M-90.

But I've also taken to building a classic styled setup with some other pieces I've put together.

It's a fun question to ask mag guys "how many different mags can you put together with the pieces you have on hand?" Aside from a few combinations of parts that cannot be put together, you are not limited much in assembling something that is wholly unique to your mood or style of play.

Buy one, play with it, evaluate your setup, and keep plenty of oil and o-rings around.

[Nobody]

Bah, don't listen to Zondo. You don't need a lot of orings on hand. Fo4 my classic, i put a L10 when they were new, like 2000 or 2001. I have not changed any oring in the gun after countless cases of paint went through it. Other than a few drops of oil(KC Troublefree or the new release of that same oil), that's all you need. Now, i can't say that for the X type valves, but i play with the Mag Whisperer, and he can detect a problem.with a mag at 10 paces. I am spoiled...

[zondo]

:rolleyes:

A re-build kit will be enough... the only thing I've had to replace are random o-rings. and one foamy for a L10.