why not an e-mag??

[Clippy]

Im very questioned at this point...

for sure im getting an SFL E-mag, nothings talking me out of getting it..

but what im wondering is, why is it that at tournys everyone plays with angels, and cockers?

i know i see some mags, i see some bushys, i see some impulses... but im being very broad here.. the majority of people that i've seen playing use angels and cockers, when its been proven time and time agian that an e-mag has very nice features that compaire very well to an angel..

its just something that was bothering me..

you see i have a friend that plays an RT and he was explaining to a guy with an angel that the RT "can" obtain a higher rate of fire than that of an angel, and he couldn't put it in any way for the guy to understand, to him the angel was the fastest and bestest of the best markers that exist in the whole universe... heh..

well now this post is getting huge so ima just quit here..

:)

[AGD]

Probably because there are only 35 SFL's in existence and there are about 20,000 Angels. Most of which were given to the pros as sponsorship.

AGD

[Drizit]

and every kid with a rich momy gets told that there is none higher then the angel. if you get one it will suddenly make you the best player on the field. it's not true but that's what they get told.

edit
also what do they give out as prizes?

[damageinc54]

Just out of curiosity Tom, how many regular EMags have been produced?

[Rusty_Jones]

Here's what I've seen so far when it comes to tourney players (at least the highly visible NPPL Pro, Am A and Am B level players)...

Most of the players who use Angels are loud and make themselves known. They dump a lot of paint (why not, when a lot of them get it as part of a sponsership deal?). And get the most expensive performance gear they can. Why do they use an Angel? Because everyone else they seem to have been cloned from uses one. And why not? They shoot fast, they are reliable (or so I'm told) and are "pretty".

Most of the players who use Cockers (and thier many, many
custom brother and sister guns) are up front, snap shooters who don't need an Angel's speed. They rely on short controlled strings that they can be assured are going to be accurate. Cockers are more compact then an Angel is. These guys are either quiet and calculating or even more loud and ever-present then thier Angel toting teammates.

What are they missing? For starters, rate of fire. An RT or Emag can outshoot an Angel any day of the week. The Technology is longer proven and more solidly built. Oh, and your gun isn't useless once your battery dies (fat chance if you're smart, but it's entirely possible). With the right set-up any mag with a powerfed body is WAY more compact then either gun could dare to be. Accuracy? You're shooting a ball projectile, not a cylander like in a real gun. The difference in accuracy is so negliable once you get down to perfect barrel matched paint, proper porting(or lack of) and air flow behind the ball.

The rest of the players who use something besides an Angel, Cocker or even a mag are using the guns they have for any of the following reasons: Personal love of the gun, Sponsership, lack of funds to upgrade to a "tourney" class gun.

I think half those guys are nuts for passing up a mag in any form. No other company does what Tom does as far as service is concerned. I've got the means to use just about any gun I wanted. I shot an RT one day because my stock mag wasn't working properly on a fluke and the gun spoke to me. I was sold.

Here's one more consideration. Know anyone who buys the most expensive stuff just because it's expensive? Ego is a huge driving force for a lot of people. How big of an Ego would you say most of us Automag owners have? Big enough to be silently satisfied we got the best guns around and that most people never quite estimate us until it's WAY too late.

Btw, the best gun in the universe is the one you have the most fun with and you're proud to own.

So there's my long 2 cents.

[Hemlock86]

Whats the average price for an Emag? like $900. ??
And the Average angel? $1300. ?? thats $400. more for a Spyder look a like that isnt as solid as the Emag.

BLAH! I want an Emag now!

[damageinc54]

You can find EMags for much less than 900.00. One of my team mates picked up a brand new one still wrapped in the box for 700.00 from EBay. Last I looked you could not find a brand new Angel for less than 999.99, and that is the lowest model with a black and unmilled body.

[ramirezdad]

I love Mags. I owned numbers 386 and 399 at one point, and can tell you where the majority of the parts of both of those guns ended up. I've never called any guns except Phantoms and Mags mine. And now I want an electic gun. Some version of the E-mag has been the only gun on my wish list. But there is a problem.

The RT valve which the E-Mag is based on can be revved up in velocity. The way this used to be done was by holding the trigger back for an extended period of time then shooting, or by firing a rapid burst. Because of this characteristic tournament chrono judges often went to great lengths to make the RT's shoot hot. This is perfectly reasonable since we don't want any guns on the field which can be made to shoot unsafely through change of playing style rather than physical modification.

To avoid an unsafe situation the proper thing to do is lower the RT's velocity to a level where the rev up effect does not cross the 300fps limit. The downside to this is your first shot is coming out at a lower velocity, making your snap shot less effective.

Given this argument I find it hard to justify buying the E-Mag when I will get reduced performance when compared to a regular mag. The difference in trigger pull is not enough to warrant a switch in my case. This is why in tournaments (I only play limited paint) I have stuck with a standard valve Mag. Perhaps I will get an E-Mag but it will only be for rec ball and the off chance I will enter an unlimited paint event. I can't say why other tournament players don't use E-Mags, but for me giving up the snap shots is not an option.

[Drizit]

guys you need to stop hammering on the angel so much. they are when it comes down to it a decent, solid, reliable gun. i don't want one, i rather have an emag, but that's just because i like the feel of it more. every time i fire an emag i like it, every time i fire an angel it's just enh. it just an angel. they don't do it for me and there fore wouldn't be as efective in my hands. however the reverse is true for other players.

and ramirezdad if you are realy worried about the gun going hot or having to chorny in low, you can toss your AIR valve in the emag and go, they are compatible.

[Bonx0007]

Originally posted by Rusty_Jones

Btw, the best gun in the universe is the one you have the most fun with and you're proud to own.


One of the greatest quotes I have ever heard.
Good job rusty

[Bad Dave]

However, RTs had worse shoot up cos guys wanted the reactive trigger, so they put 800+psi into the gun to get the reactive trigger, but that ment shoot up.

With your e mag u don't want the reactive trigger, stick 650psi in the back, should be no shoot down with good hpa reg and also no shoot up. The exact pressure will vary a little from gun to gun but 650 is a good start.

[Cliffio]

Originally posted by Rusty_Jones
What are they missing? For starters, rate of fire. An RT or Emag can outshoot an Angel any day of the week.


most of what you said was well said i just had beef with this::

rate of fire doesnt mean squat, a gun shoots as fast as you can make it, so whats the difference between the angels 20 ans the emags 26?

nothing, no person can get 26 bps, so whats really the point


so your argument about rof is rather irrelivant
seeing as i can shoot my angel at about 13 and my friends emag about 11

so saying that the emag CAN shoot faster means nothing, if I cant shoot it fast what good does a faster valve really do for me>

holla
Cliff

[Cliffio]

Originally posted by Hemlock86
Whats the average price for an Emag? like $900. ??
And the Average angel? $1300. ?? thats $400. more for a Spyder look a like that isnt as solid as the Emag.

are you like high or something?
angels do not look like spyders

holla
Cliff


lets all face it, this debate will go on forever, im not gonna budge, i love my angel, your gonna gonna budge because you think emags are better

thats fine i dont have beef with that, shoot your emags
doesnt matter a bit what gun YOU shoot
ill keep mine

holla
Cliff

[Dubstar112]

Ok, these posts are getting somwhat annoying, I mean, it takes common sense to figure out that 4 years of the angel being out will equal more angels. The same for the emag, 1 year of being on the shelves, and its not quite proven, and doesnt sell as much as the Angel. Cliffio, it must be hard defending an Angel on these boards.. especiall when this debate will never end even though there is an obvious answer..(the obvious is that there is no better gun)

[Rusty_Jones]

First there was the Mag Vs Cocker debate....
Then (at least around my area) there was the RT Mag vs Tippmann RT debate...
Now, Tom Kaye is probably very ammused to bring you....

The Emag VS Every Other Marker Debate....

Seriously, someone said this debate was gonna go on and on... I think Clippy just wanted to know why more people don't use the E-Mag on the tourney scene. I hope we answered his ponderance in a round about way.

I wasn't trying to slam on anyone's non-Mag guns. Like I said, the best gun anyone of us can have is the most fun to use and is reliable in that function.

[MAGS own YOU]

In this forum, the Mag will win any marker debate.

In the cocker forum, the cocker will win any marker debate.

[Crazy]

i agree with Cliffo 100%
i also own an angel and just like him, I love mine to death.

[Nitroduck]

Originally posted by Clippy
Im very questioned at this point...

for sure im getting an SFL E-mag, nothings talking me out of getting it..

but what im wondering is, why is it that at tournys everyone plays with angels, and cockers?

i know i see some mags, i see some bushys, i see some impulses... but im being very broad here.. the majority of people that i've seen playing use angels and cockers, when its been proven time and time agian that an e-mag has very nice features that compaire very well to an angel..

its just something that was bothering me..

you see i have a friend that plays an RT and he was explaining to a guy with an angel that the RT "can" obtain a higher rate of fire than that of an angel, and he couldn't put it in any way for the guy to understand, to him the angel was the fastest and bestest of the best markers that exist in the whole universe... heh..

well now this post is getting huge so ima just quit here..

:)

Guns being used at the tourney level have to do with sponsorships, then the trickle down effect..

Plus, where you live, it has a major part to play. In Ohio, you mainly see Angels, Cockers, and Impulses as the major 3..However, in some parts (at some tourneys), you see more Mags than Angels......Other places like at IAO, I noticed more Bm2ks than Cockers.

Add in the fact that WDP has tried very hard to promote thier gun as where AGD hasnt (within the past 3-4 years) can account for alot.....Just like everything, people want what other people have, and if you see more teams winning with gun X, they'll think gun X is better...

BTW, your RT cant shoot faster than most angels....Angels can be repogrammed to do 26bps as well....Or more.