One Legged T-Rex (OLTR)

[luke]

Pre order page is up> http://www.lukescustoms.com/t-rex.html

Oops, lost the other thread. (sarcasm)

The overseer, a little tribute to TK.
Found this little guy in the trunk of a car at an auto salvage yard. He was buried under a pile of old parts, dirt and trash, he's missing an arm, leg and both hands. I saw some irony in his discovery so I had to dig him out and bring him home. lol

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/cheater%20prototype%20002_zpsiyhxwaen.jpg (http://s550.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/cheater%20prototype%20002_zpsiyhxwaen.jpg.html)

On to other news...

I've been working on the T-Rex for 3-4 months. I believe I've dialed in the final design but several more phases of testing is still required.
The design incorporates a built in mounting tab and an airline hole to pass a LP hose through if you're bringing in low pressure air from a forward mounted regulator.
http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/LC%20Cheater%20001_zpsucbr3ere.jpg (http://s550.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/LC%20Cheater%20001_zpsucbr3ere.jpg.html)

Here's the two latest working prototypes, V9 and 9.1 essentially they're the same but with minor machining changes (A few different internal chamfers to cut down on the number of tools and tool changes.)

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/Cheater%209.1%20004_zpsez9v4izc.jpg (http://s550.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/Cheater%209.1%20004_zpsez9v4izc.jpg.html)

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/Cheater%209.1%20003_zpsq5utuh88.jpg (http://s550.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/Cheater%209.1%20003_zpsq5utuh88.jpg.html)

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/Cheater%209.1%20002_zpsv1vwmwhm.jpg (http://s550.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/Cheater%209.1%20002_zpsv1vwmwhm.jpg.html)

Did more bench testing yesterday after machining this little mount. So far this little dude rips, feeling stoked about the design. But more testing is required. :sarcasm:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/Cheater%20Mount%20Tab%20001_zpsxir5rcyi.jpg (http://s550.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/Cheater%20Mount%20Tab%20001_zpsxir5rcyi.jpg.html)

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/Cheater%20mount%20Tab%20003_zpsz4nnlf8a.jpg (http://s550.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/Cheater%20mount%20Tab%20003_zpsz4nnlf8a.jpg.html)

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/Cheater%20Mount%20Tab%20002_zpsaokg1ool.jpg (http://s550.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/Cheater%20Mount%20Tab%20002_zpsaokg1ool.jpg.html)

The body and valve assembly are machined from brass.
Trigger pin is non proprietary, made of stainless steel. The current design locates the trigger pin pretty close to a factory set trigger pin. These can be ground down without affecting the valve operation if you want the trigger to sit back further in the frame. The trigger pin is an off the shelf 1/8" x 3/4" dowel pin.
The trigger pin has a built in stop in the valve body, it is impossible to over pull or bottom out the valve assembly.
The pin stroke is set at 0.04" but I believe it will operate at a much shorter stroke. (Again further testing is required)
This design uses orings in all the spots that need a seal, NO Teflon tape or thread sealer! Sounds silly but that's a big deal when you sit down to assemble a bunch of parts. Also, sealers can be problematic on pneumatic valve systems. ;)



For the record this is not a Zap design, parts are nowhere interchangeable, the valve assemblies are completely different.

If you're interested in the project please post. Pricing will be within the scope of what's come before.

This will not work in the following frames:
Z-Grip
Y-Grip
RPG Triton
Airwalk (Too close to call without CAD's)

[knownothingmags]

id be up for maybe two price and such considered.

this is neat to see you get this done.

[luke]

Thanks!

What frame are you considering for your build?

[Kusokow]

Would this design work for z-frame?

[luke]

Would this design work for z-frame?

Sorry, No.

[jame4091]

I would be interested in two as well depending on price and how easy it will be to get this in intelli style frames

[luke]

I would be interested in two as well depending on price and how easy it will be to get this in intelli style frames

For these to work properly it will require professional machining to the frame to work properly. There's almost no leeway on the cheater to do modifications to it. I'll looking to frame mods after the cheater is ready for production. Lots of testing is still required. ;)

[audioSLAVE]

I'm down for one still since I have all Luke lowers on my current build. If I have one of your frames I'm assuming I need to send it back to you to have it modified, is there a cost on that and if so how much is it or is it too early to crunch numbers?

[kwik175]

I will take 2 when the time comes.

[Levi]

Still down for a couple of these.

[luke]

I'm down for one still since I have all Luke lowers on my current build. If I have one of your frames I'm assuming I need to send it back to you to have it modified, is there a cost on that and if so how much is it or is it too early to crunch numbers?

To mount the cheater all that is required is a single hole to be drilled. (See picture #7 from the top) However, I plan on adding a magnetic trigger return and a hole in the rear of the frame to reset the on/off when required. I'll work out some kind of a deal for all the frames that have been sold, all new frame sales will come with those additions.

I'll take care of you guys one way or another, this cheater was the reason those frames didn't come ready for a typical pneumag build. ;)

[tolar250]

ill be in for two. one for one of your frames on a classic RT, and another for in one of cougars M86 frames. will need some rail milling on both projects as well.

[Dayspring]

So it would require a fair amount of work for a Y-Frame?

[luke]

ill be in for two one for cougars M86 frames.

Cougar will have to verify if his frames be a candidate or not, I haven't really studied his frame that close so I'm not certain one way or another.


and one for one of your frames on a classic RT.

I won't be able to personally test that setup, has anyone built a pneumag on the Classic RT platform using a MSV2 and MPA-3 ram yet? If so it shouldn't be a problem but that's just a guess.

[going_home]

I'll take another mini vert and one of these.

[luke]

So it would require a fair amount of work for a Y-Frame?

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/Cheater%20Intelli%20MiniV%20Y%20002_zps6mqzevnd.jp g (http://s550.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/Cheater%20Intelli%20MiniV%20Y%20002_zps6mqzevnd.jp g.html)

It looks like the Y frame will not be a candidate for this. (Bummer) I never really looked at the frame in consideration for the mod until now.
The way the Y frame is machined at the point where it narrows (at the red arrow) is the limiting factor.

If you look at the arrow on my frame, this is the necessary spot where the front of the valve must sit in order for the ram face to be in the correct location (That can't change).
After looking at the Intelli it may be coming up a smig shy but I think I can make it work with a little machining on the valve, but I'll have to look at the cads.
But like I said, my focus is on testing the valve not exploring all the possibilities everyone is going to want, all that in due time. ;)

All that being said, the valve design has little to no room for changes in this current configuration, actually it was all I could do to squeeze what was necessary into the space I had to work in, I was LITTERALLY splitting a few 10ths (0.0001) to get the design to work.

[boo]

This looks awesome! Is there enough room in that frame to fit a tickler LPR?

[luke]

This looks awesome! Is there enough room in that frame to fit a tickler LPR?

Probably, it's shorter than the Micro Rock. A MR is short enough but I'm not sure it will clear the LP fitting which can't move much more than .0001". (I believe the top of the MR could be machined to clear the hose though)

[captian pinky]

i would be interested if they could drop into an intelli.

[cougar20th]

Cougar will have to verify if his frames be a candidate or not, I haven't really studied his frame that close so I'm not certain one way or another.


Is there a way I can get a very dumbed down solid model (external only) or some sort of drawing with just external? I dont want to know whats going on inside as thats you work.

[luke]

Sure, I can send you a "negative" model of the space needed, located off the trigger pin hole, safety and the frame screws. IGES ok?

[tolar250]

Cougar will have to verify if his frames be a candidate or not, I haven't really studied his frame that close so I'm not certain one way or another.



I won't be able to personally test that setup, has anyone built a pneumag on the Classic RT platform using a MSV2 and MPA-3 ram yet? If so it shouldn't be a problem but that's just a guess.

several came up in a google search including one built by cougar20th

on the classic rt i was already expecting some tinkering to be needed.

i like the cheater concept because its simplified and compact and that helps if "alternative" mounting is required.

[Chupas2]

I'm interested in one.

[audioSLAVE]

To mount the cheater all that is required is a single hole to be drilled. (See picture #7 from the top) However, I plan on adding a magnetic trigger return and a hole in the rear of the frame to reset the on/off when required. I'll work out some kind of a deal for all the frames that have been sold, all new frame sales will come with those additions.

I'll take care of you guys one way or another, this cheater was the reason those frames didn't come ready for a typical pneumag build. ;)

Cool. I'm thinking about just picking up another frame then that will be good to go. Thank you.

[cougar20th]

Sure, I can send you a "negative" model of the space needed, located off the trigger pin hole, safety and the frame screws. IGES ok?

Iges is good cougar20th at hotmail.com

[luke]

Iges is good cougar20th at hotmail.com

I'll send it now, check your PMs for a little more info. ;)

DONE! :)

[cougar20th]

several came up in a google search including one built by cougar20th

on the classic rt i was already expecting some tinkering to be needed.

i like the cheater concept because its simplified and compact and that helps if "alternative" mounting is required.

The msv/mpa3 setup isnt a good comparison. It just to adjustable.
Better comparison would be my e90. Major tinkering. BigE is responsible for that build. It included grinding the sear, I think the plunger, really he could tell you more.

Boils down to putting something like this into a classic rt will likely need tinkering.

[luke]

The msv/mpa3 setup isnt a good comparison. It just to adjustable.
Better comparison would be my e90. Major tinkering. BigE is responsible for that build. It included grinding the sear, I think the plunger, really he could tell you more.

Boils down to putting something like this into a classic rt will likely need tinkering.

If those parts will trip the sear this valve should too. ;)

[going_home]

The msv/mpa3 setup isnt a good comparison. It just to adjustable.
Better comparison would be my e90. Major tinkering. BigE is responsible for that build. It included grinding the sear, I think the plunger, really he could tell you more.

Boils down to putting something like this into a classic rt will likely need tinkering.

Put Lukes frame on it.

;)

[cougar20th]

Put Lukes frame on it.

;)

Its more that I believe the sear to be slightly foward on a classic rt. Cant say ive confirmed it but after several builds that seems to be my conclusion.

[Grelvire]

Interested, time for a new build. I'll have to get a mod one of your vert frames I already have.

[luke]

Its more that I believe the sear to be slightly foward on a classic rt. Cant say ive confirmed it but after several builds that seems to be my conclusion.

If that's the case a custom ram may be necessary and perhaps machine the back end of the valve housing. That is as long as the sear leg does not have added stroke length. ;)

[tolar250]

If that's the case a custom ram may be necessary and perhaps machine the back end of the valve housing. That is as long as the sear leg does not have added stroke length. ;)

i see no difference between the sear i pulled from the classic rt, and the rt sear i have. also with the sear axle installed i measured from the back edge of the front frame hole to the farthest edge of the sear axle: classic rt measured 2.9" and my rt length armada rail measured 2.95". i will take better measurements tomorrow morning with calipers at work. so the classic rt sear does sit farther forward.

[luke]

As long as the stroke isn't significantly longer there may be a solution. The issue with the valve would be the travel distance of the ram, the starting position cannot be changed but the face could be shaved some. If it has to travel to far it will eject itself out the back of the body or lose it's seal...

[cougar20th]

Just shave the front edge of the sear. Worked on the e90 rt and could still be used as a mech if needed.

[Chrome]

For the record: this is pretty darn neat, and reading about the improvements made compared to the prior cheater is cool. The original cheaters are always snapped up quick in the BST, so good to see more people with an opportunity to get in on one. Also, cool to see the wisdom of KAM flowing forward regarding production runs and such.

All that said, and I don't want to turn this into a pile of poo, but I'll be "that guy" as it doesn't look like anyone else has stepped up yet. Has all the legal voodoo with DW and or PTP been sorted out, or is this a "damn the torpedoes" kind of adventure? Just wouldn't want to see Luke step into the guano that is the paintball industry at large. . .

[TyeStick]

I'm interested. :D

[luke]

Just shave the front edge of the sear. Worked on the e90 rt and could still be used as a mech if needed.

If it's that simple, just sanding the front of the ram may be a better/easier route, probably wont even have to mess with the body. This ram is solid not hollowed out in the back like the zap ram. ;)

[luke]

All that said, and I don't want to turn this into a pile of poo, but I'll be "that guy" as it doesn't look like anyone else has stepped up yet. Has all the legal voodoo with DW and or PTP been sorted out, or is this a "damn the torpedoes" kind of adventure? Just wouldn't want to see Luke step into the guano that is the paintball industry at large. . .

I was working with Forrest (Helped with properly reversed engineered files) to help him get the Zap Cheater to market but his machine shop bumped him for a larger job. He ask me to take over the project. ;)

Personally I didn't like the Zap design and didn't want to copy it (Out of pride I guess) so to do the job I had to design my own cheater...


Also, cool to see the wisdom of KAM flowing forward regarding production runs and such.

I don't understand the reference?

[gotzskillz]

would love to have one of these for my build. I have and can only afford an intelli-frame, so ill have to wait i guess. But wouldn't mind offering my frame for testing within reason of course. :)

[Chrome]

Don't give it another thought; I'd rather not muck up the thread further. Question asked and answered on the legal front. :)

Now, more about the new cool shiny things!

[going_home]

Pretty sure the two pneumatic trigger patents are all encompassing, a bolt on completed trigger frame like Gforce.

This is just one component, the buyer would still have to get other components to complete the project.

Not to worry.

;)

[luke]

Just finished another test (9pm in my garage, quiet neighborhood, no barrel) the first on a fully assembled marker, ReTro Valve .75" on/off pin, Level 10 Bolt, gold spring, no trigger stops, no trigger return magnets, three words, Sweet Baby Jesus!

50 psi to cheater is insanely walkable, couldn't seem to short stroke it if I tried, drop the pressure to 40 psi and the RT effect so badass it would have little boys on the field peeing themselves. Wow, that's all I have to say about that.:ninja:

[captian pinky]

is it similar to the msv2 style 2 ways that vent when the trigger is held? or maybe that was just the one i had that needed an oring.

[luke]

is it similar to the msv2 style 2 ways that vent when the trigger is held? or maybe that was just the one i had that needed an oring.

There was nothing wrong with the MSV2, that is the way it's designed to work. ;)

[C_losjoker]

Just finished another test (9pm in my garage, quiet neighborhood, no barrel) the first on a fully assembled marker, ReTro Valve .75" on/off pin, Level 10 Bolt, gold spring, no trigger stops, no trigger return magnets, three words, Sweet Baby Jesus!

50 psi to cheater is insanely walkable, couldn't seem to short stroke it if I tried, drop the pressure to 40 psi and the RT effect so badass it would have little boys on the field peeing themselves. Wow, that's all I have to say about that.:ninja:

WHat no video???????

[Laku]

I'm in for at least one!

[Ailia]

Nice to hear its finally coming luke, in for one.

[1985phenom]

I have an intelli for testing... I love this!!!

[BigEvil]

If it's that simple, just sanding the front of the ram may be a better/easier route, probably wont even have to mess with the body. This ram is solid not hollowed out in the back like the zap ram. ;)

You would figure, but that has never been the case with the classic RTs.

[BigEvil]

I hope this works awesome. This is something that is way over due... a high quality high performance version anyhow. Testing looks promising.

[magman313]

Luke do you have a rough idea how far out this is from being released? I realize your still in testing, just curious.

[Mole1119]

Can who ever has the CAD for the original M90 (Tuna/BigE?) check if the exterior profile of the valve will fit that frame.

[luke]

You would figure, but that has never been the case with the classic RTs.

:) I've never fooled with them so I really don't know what's possible. Perhaps what I've offered as a solution can be used to figure it out. My real point is there's almost no play in the valve to be making adjustments, everything is pretty much sitting on the edge tolerance wise. ;)

[luke]

Luke do you have a rough idea how far out this is from being released? I realize your still in testing, just curious.

Soon I hope.

[BigEvil]

:) I've never fooled with them so I really don't know what's possible. Perhaps what I've offered as a solution can be used to figure it out. My real point is there's almost no play in the valve to be making adjustments, everything is pretty much sitting on the edge tolerance wise. ;)

I asked TK a while back and he said there were no differences between the RT and Classic RT geometry that he knew of. There is definitely something just different enough to make a mess of best-laid-plans though..

[luke]

Yea, this valve probably won't be the end-all solution to all the configurations out there, and I definitely won't make that claim.

First priority is a working valve in my frames, the rest is an entirely different project. It's just easier to keep the focus narrowed enough to keep ones sanity, the project has enough hurtles to jump and details to juggle without all the extra baggage ;)

Cougar has the necessary dimensions to check the frames he has modeled. I just don't have the time or the desire to jump into that right now, I'm a tad fried on the project as it is...

[Loguzzzzzz]

I won't be able to personally test that setup, has anyone built a pneumag on the Classic RT platform using a MSV2 and MPA-3 ram yet? If so it shouldn't be a problem but that's just a guess. Done many years ago probably 5 or 6 now. . . . .

Classic RT Pneumag (http://s520.photobucket.com/user/jloguzzo/library/Classic%20RT%20Pneumag?sort=3&page=1).

The Y grip takes extensive milling to make a MPA-3 and MSV-2 work. The MPA-3 must also be modified. I have built a few and in fact just finished one for a guy in Florida. Probably shipping it in the next couple days. I am going to say that I really doubt that this will work in a Y Grip.

Like THIS. . . . . .

http://i520.photobucket.com/albums/w326/jloguzzo/MISC/Y%20Grip%20Frame%202_zpskuanlqpb.jpg

http://i520.photobucket.com/albums/w326/jloguzzo/MISC/Y%20Grip%20Frame%201_zpsiczdsscs.jpg

[cougar20th]

CORRECTION: M86's will need to be machined to fit this.

[luke]

It appears to fit the M86,

Even could use the side mounting screws. But first check with Luke to make sure the design can handle the side pressure. Hate to have someone crush their cheater.
Mounting it like Luke shows in the picture could be alittle interesting since the mounting plates in the frames are different. Worst case for mounting would be having to make a custom mount block similar to what Luke shows.

There's room, but it will still need machined correct?

Set screws will work but will need to be strategically located to avoid the thinnest part of the ram cavity which is 0.030" thick.
I went with a built in mounting tab so it has a positive and repeatable mount location. ;)

[luke]

The Y grip takes extensive milling to make a MPA-3 and MSV-2 work. The MPA-3 must also be modified. I have built a few and in fact just finished one for a guy in Florida. Probably shipping it in the next couple days. I am going to say that I really doubt that this will work in a Y Grip.

The location of where the cheater must be mounted is the limited factor, I certainly wasn't implying it was impossible, just with my design. ;)

[cougar20th]

There's room, but it will still need machined correct?

Set screws will work but will need to be strategically located to avoid the thinnest part of the ram cavity which is 0.030" thick.
I went with a built in mounting tab so it has a positive and repeatable mount location. ;)

Seems to just drop in as long as that area I asked about is the same as a intelli in your frames.

[luke]

Seems to just drop in as long as that area I asked about is the same as a intelli in your frames.

Like I said, the area you ask about on the cheater is 100% irrelevant to mounting it in ANY frame, it's the foot print and depth that is important. (Did you get my email this morning?)

It is absolutely crucial that the dimensions are relative to the trigger pin hole and/or the frame screw holes, just having the space is only 1/2 the equation. ;)

[luke]

Cougar, take the original model I sent you and drop it into your frame, line it up on screw holes, trigger pin, safety holes and flush to the top, whatever does not fit into your frame will need to be machined away (On your frame)...

[boo]

Would this frame work with a PTP micromag and an xvalve?

[luke]

Did more testing today and found a small issue, that is, small being relative to the whole scope of the project. (lol)
I will have to tweak the entire design, reprogram and machine another prototype. (So glad I did some testing... again>>>:sarcasm: )
What's interesting is it was a single, solitary bit of information I trusted from an outside source that went unverified until today. It's completely my fault though because I went against my #1 cardinal rule......
So it's back to work, it will be a few days before there are any more updates.

[cougar20th]

Cougar, take the original model I sent you and drop it into your frame, line it up on screw holes, trigger pin, safety holes and flush to the top, whatever does not fit into your frame will need to be machined away (On your frame)...

OK I get it now. Miss understood.

M86's will need to be machined to fit this.

[luke]

OK I get it now. Miss understood.

M86's will need to be machined to fit this.

Bingo! I had a feeling we weren't on the same page. :)

Do you have the intelli frame modeled?

[luke]

Would this frame work with a PTP micromag and an xvalve?

Probably

[cougar20th]

Bingo! I had a feeling we weren't on the same page. :)

Do you have the intelli frame modeled?

Ill pm you shortly about it

[Loguzzzzzz]

The location of where the cheater must be mounted is the limited factor, I certainly wasn't implying it was impossible, just with my design. ;)
I understand that this is purpose built for your frame only. I never said you said or were implying any such thing. I was trying to answer some other interested people's question, that is all.

[knownothingmags]

unless cost is quite low,
does it make sense to buy this for any other frame other than a lukes frame?

[Loguzzzzzz]

unless cost is quite low,
does it make sense to buy this for any other frame other than a lukes frame?
I see it as a price point issue along with how much work it would take to make it work, and at what cost to make it cost effective for any other frames. From what I recall the Zap Cheater was about $100. Now if you lack the know how and the skill to mod a frame then I see the other alternative as a better option. If you have a luke frame then this is definitely a viable option. . . . . but at what cost. This still remains to be seen.

[maverick13]

I could be for one, depending on price, to mount on your vert frame, or a M86. But most probably on my armada's vert frame.

[luke]

I understand that this is purpose built for your frame only. I never said you said or were implying any such thing. I was trying to answer some other interested people's question, that is all.

It's all good. :)

[yellowmitten]

I'll take one

[luke]

I pulled up my Intelli file, it looks like it won't be a problem at all, but it will require machining and a mounting tab/ set screws
At a glance, the PTP single trigger Benchmark frame should work, but needs machining.
I know for certain is the Y frame will not work.
Cougars frame should work with machining.
I don't know about the M90, but I would say the chances are better than good.

[cougar20th]

Im gonna do more checking tomorrow to check wall thickness on a m86 if its been modded.

[luke]

Im gonna do more checking tomorrow to check wall thickness on a m86 if its been modded.

Grip thickness (If this helps)
My mini vert is at .730" raw
Intelli anodized is .740"
Intelli chrome plated is .750"

[luke]

Did AGD ever release data on the stroke length of the sear leg for the classic valves or RTP on/off valves? Perhaps the degrees of rotation around the sear pin from the start point, sear locked on the bolt. (Strike face)
The ULT info won't help because it will vary depending on the number of shims.
I've reverse engineered it pretty close but having the factory number would set me at ease with the design. I have to find an extra (minimum) 1/16" in the valve system to make changes and it's pretty tight, actually that's a huge amount, lol.

[bbotts77]

I might be up for one, since Forest still has the one I got from Zap.

[luke]

Small update, the V10 design is done, I'm pleased with the out come. I was able to find the 0.060" needed to make the necessary changes. The areas that would have affected the performance that I had in V9.1 was maintained, so I expect no change there. I did take the valve pin stroke down to .02" which is about 1/3 the stroke of a micro switch. I'll start on the reprograming for machining later today, perhaps get the parts machined tomorrow...

[goin5150]

Definitely interested in at least one

[BigEvil]

So what was the outcome regarding these things working in a standard AGD frame?

[luke]

So what was the outcome regarding these things working in a standard AGD frame?

The Intelli is completely doable (As expected) but must be machined, I'll also design a mounting tab for an easy install.
M86 is completely doable, but must be machined, designing a mounting tab will be super easy.
No idea who has the CAD's on the M90 to have it checked, but I think it will work with machining too.

[Dayspring]

And no good for Y-Frame right?

[BigEvil]

The Intelli is completely doable (As expected) but must be machined, I'll also design a mounting tab for an easy install.
M86 is completely doable, but must be machined, designing a mounting tab will be super easy.
No idea who has the CAD's on the M90 to have it checked, but I think it will work with machining too.

Same as the M86 and I frame :)

Once they are altered, will they still be usable as mechs?

[luke]

Y frame is out, sorry.

If you look at the milling on the Mini Vert frame, them compare that to the Y grip, you can see why it's inpossible. The machining must match my frame to work.
http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/Cheater%20Intelli%20MiniV%20Y%20002_zps6mqzevnd.jp g (http://s550.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/Cheater%20Intelli%20MiniV%20Y%20002_zps6mqzevnd.jp g.html)

Here's a side view of the problem. It must have at least as much material as the Intelli to machine the internal cavity to install the cheater.
http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/Y%20Intelli%20Cheater%20Problem%20002_zpsdokkvum4. jpg (http://s550.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/Y%20Intelli%20Cheater%20Problem%20002_zpsdokkvum4. jpg.html)

[luke]

Once they are altered, will they still be usable as mechs?

Absolutely and will not affect the current capabilities of the current design, meaning you could still build a sleeper with a MPA3 and MSV2.

If you did a new run of frames you could include this machining AND the mounting tab and keep everything else the same. ;)

[dodge3500]

I'm in for 1 possibly 2.:)

[luke]

The machining to mount these is not complicated, the cavity is a is just a little wider, (Enough to fit a MPA3) a little deeper and more forward towards the trigger in comparison to the Intelli.

[jame4091]

Just wondering, will you be offering a milling service to make the kit compatible with an intelli? And if so, what type of price range?

[luke]

Just wondering, will you be offering a milling service to make the kit compatible with an intelli? And if so, what type of price range?

Yes.

Not a clue on price.

[ElPanda]

looks awesome

hope you sell a bunch!

[jame4091]

Know this will be coming out has completely changed the direction of the project I was working on.

[Syko89]

Z grip looks to have the same milling as the y Frame so probably won't work

[luke]

Z grip looks to have the same milling as the y Frame so probably won't work

I just pulled up a picture of your, you're correct, it's not going to work. (Bummer)

[luke]

Finished the V10 prototype late last night, it worked, but I'm not 100% happy with the design changes and the machining so I'm going to do some massaging on the design and start over from there...

[luke]

Finished V11 last night, reprograming today.

[jame4091]

Knowing your work it will be done right.
Time for a shooting video!

[luke]

When I get it right or at least believe so, I'll try to do a little video. ;)

The (re)programing on this takes up an entire day, I'm completely done fooling with this project already! lol.

[flampaint]

I'll take one and maybe a second one. Do I need to sign up somewhere for this or will posting my interest here suffice?
Awesome job by the way! :headbang: IMHO it's people and products like this that keep this community so alive

[luke]

No lists, no preorder. I'll be making 25, prepayments when production starts will be accepted for anyone that wants to secure one before they're completed...

[flampaint]

No lists, no preorder. I'll be making 25, prepayments when production starts will be accepted for anyone that wants to secure one before they're completed...

thanks. I'll susbcribe to this thread then and will be following/stalking it! :D
Just curious: any idea as to when production will start (aprox.) in order to make that pmt asap when it becomes relevant to do so?

[luke]

thanks. I'll susbcribe to this thread then and will be following/stalking it! :D
Just curious: any idea as to when production will start (aprox.) in order to make that pmt asap when it becomes relevant to do so?

Impossible to tell at this point, we need a working model worthy of going to production first. ;)

It's getting close is the only accurate answer. :)

[luke]

Just curious, do you guys see the RT affect using the MPA3/MSV2 setup? Mine hit it with 40 psi input and I've seen it in every prototype I've tested.

It's not a problem, just turn the pressure up to 50 psi and it goes away. I'm sure people would even use it on occasion for fun, actually got to thinking it would be neat to have a reg design that would allow you to drop it on the fly to 40 psi, might be a cool gimmick.

[yellowmitten]

Yup both of mine do that, I hope I ge another one with your valve soon:)

[flampaint]

actually got to thinking it would be neat to have a reg design that would allow you to drop it on the fly to 40 psi, might be a cool gimmick.

agree, that would be a pretty cool gimmick!

[luke]

Machined the V11 prototype this morning. Ran 1500 psi threw it before I ran out of air, should have my shoebox by the end of the week. :bounce:
It works pretty good but I think there's an issue in the machining that needs addressed, I hope the design is good though.

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/Cheatah%20V11%20001_zpsjbtmovxg.jpg (http://s550.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/Cheatah%20V11%20001_zpsjbtmovxg.jpg.html)

All the parts were pushed, pulled, tugged and massaged in order to generate the space I needed for changes, I'm trying a ram new design too.

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/Cheatah%20V11%20002_zpshpfzggme.jpg (http://s550.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/Cheatah%20V11%20002_zpshpfzggme.jpg.html)

Came up with a name, didn't want to borrow from Zap so..... It's not a Cheater it's a Cheatah! Lame or cleaver I think it fits. :)
I designed a Cheetah head too but it's much to small for any detail so I nixed it...

[Fred]

Hey guys I wanna tell you about this awesome new watch I got, its called a Rolox, totally original name.

90986

[luke]

Can't please them all...

[Fred]

I want you to succeed. I want you to keep making awesome stuff.

I know you've got creative capacity, use it and come up with an original name. Seriously.

[luke]

What exactly offends you about the name? I could easily go with Luke's Cheater, people will accept that easy enough. I was impressed with it's speed when I tested it the fist time in a marker, hence the play on the word Cheetah, is it the "a" that bothers you?

[going_home]

Magic Box ?

Magic Jack ?

Well anyway....

[luke]

Magic Box ?

Magic Jack ?

Well anyway....


Magic Jack is for making phone calls.
http://www.computerliquidators.ca/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/t/item_449.jpg

Magic Box, well the first thing that comes to mind is, well..... never mind this IS a PG13 forum. ;)

[luke]

Sarah’s record was 6.16 seconds for the 100 meters in 2001, fastest cat on the planet.

http://palscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/The-Worlds-Fastest-Cat-Sarah.jpg?d9c344

[Fred]

The oldschool AO meme, before memes were memes, "Bea a cheater" comes to mind.

[audioSLAVE]

And I thought it was going to be called the 1 legged T-Rex.:)

[going_home]

Well all I know its going to get expensive, I need the cheatah, double trigger mini vert, finger groove lpr foregrip, a rail, and body....

Do you have rails and bodies too ?

[blamtro]

I like the name, its a catchy play on words. However, to appease the debbie downers, what about calling it "T-Rex"? It fits, this will be the baddest mofo on the field. Just like T-Rex was 65 million years ago.

[luke]

I like the name, its a catchy play on words. However, to appease the debbie downers, what about calling it "T-Rex"? It fits, this will be the baddest mofo on the field. Just like T-Rex was 65 million years ago.

That was my first thought but I like Cheatah more, made more sense. It's a double play on words and every one knows what a Cheater valve is.

Personally it never even entered my mind that the term cheater would be twisted to mean cheating on the field. (I get the feeling that's where Fred is coming from, but honestly I'm not really following his meaning)
When I saw the name cheater the first time, to me it was implying cheating the install, not trying to pull one over on anyone at the field.

When I see the word Cheetah I think speed, which is the intent with the conversion..... I don't know, seems much ado about nothing, it's the least of my concerns right now. Back to the machine to cut another body. :rolleyes:

[luke]

Update on the V11.

Machined a few more bodies and worked out several issues that were causing some sub par machining finishes. Feeling good about the design now, now I can sleep. lol

Crossing my fingers that this is it, I'm so completely burned on this stage of the project and ready for the next!

I hope the compressor comes in Friday so I can set it up and start filling my tanks and do some in depth testing.

[luke]

If this design (V11) proves out I'll machine one of my Intellis and test it next week. I'll work on the programing and design a mounting bracket while I'm waiting on air..

[maverick13]

I like this name, it remembers me the car !

[flampaint]

I like the name, its a catchy play on words. However, to appease the debbie downers, what about calling it "T-Rex"? It fits, this will be the baddest mofo on the field. Just like T-Rex was 65 million years ago.

agree! T-Rex would be awesome, also as a sort of tribute to AGD & TK.
But, the only thing that counts at the end of the day is that it works and Luke can really call it whatever he wants - it won't change a thing about me wanting (at least) one! :clap:

[bowcycle]

I would just go with "cheetah". for those who know the old one, it sounds like a New Englander saying it. for those who don't know the history, it's just a really fast trigger/install. Plus, going that way avoids any negative connotations of "cheater".

my $.02

[Fred]

I've made stands before on tongue in cheek marketing that I felt didn't put the sport in a good light, including boycotting Evil paint and products for years. (the thread on it might still exist?)

Zap's product name of the Cheater in and of itself is a roll eye for me, but I wasn't active at all when it was released.

My stance on your product here, is that its yours, make it yours, if its as different from Zap's as you say, let it stand on its own with an original name.

Luke's T-Rex trigger kit! With full sincerity, that's a huge improvement that's going somewhere.

[captian pinky]

also agree with straying from "cheater" or anything close to it.

[luke]

I would just go with "cheetah". for those who know the old one, it sounds like a New Englander saying it.

Lol, that's exactly what prompted the idea, "it's not a cheater it's a cheetah" the name was meant tongue in cheek, supposed to be funny, glad you picked up on it. :)

It started when I first posted this design last year, and few guys insinuated it was a (Zap) Cheater and I got irritated and felt the need to defend the design saying "Its not a cheater" I've said it to a few guys in private messages too. I was actually poking fun at myself and my ego feeling I needed to defend my work. :)

Spelling it correctly will least save me the time of explaining the entire story to those not into paintball that cheetah was purposely miss spelled and why...

So in 20 years this valve the Cheatah V11 should be worth a fortune because it will be the very first and the one and only with the original name! Can't wait to be rich! :rolf:

[luke]

I've made stands before on tongue in cheek marketing that I felt didn't put the sport in a good light, including boycotting Evil paint and products for years. (the thread on it might still exist?)

Zap's product name of the Cheater in and of itself is a roll eye for me, but I wasn't active at all when it was released.

My stance on your product here, is that its yours, make it yours, if its as different from Zap's as you say, let it stand on its own with an original name.

Luke's T-Rex trigger kit! With full sincerity, that's a huge improvement that's going somewhere.

Thanks for clarifying.

I really don't put thought or effort into naming my parts, if an idea falls into my lap that I like I use it, I just don't try that hard to come up with something. I really don't have a problem with T-Rex, but originally I thought people would scoff at the name.

EDIT: Man the value of the Cheatah V11 (well in 20 years) just went through the roof! :spit_take

[jame4091]

Fanboy- "man that gun rips, what is it?"
Me- "it's an automag"
fanboy- "where the screen"
Me- "no batteries, just mechanical"
fanboy- "wow, why does it shoot so fast"
Me- "it has a Luke's one legged trex mod!"
Fanboy- "Say What?"
Me - "oh yeah"
Call it whatever you want, it going to be the "one legged trex valve to me.

[luke]

Fanboy- "man that gun rips, what is it?"
Me- "it's an automag"
fanboy- "where the screen"
Me- "no batteries, just mechanical"
fanboy- "wow, why does it shoot so fast"
Me- "it has a Luke's one legged trex mod!"
Fanboy- "Say What?"
Me - "oh yeah"
Call it whatever you want, it going to be the "one legged trex valve to me.

http://www.clker.com/cliparts/K/u/M/7/J/n/red-thumb-up-md.png

[cougar20th]

I really don't put thought or effort into naming my parts,

LOL, you put alot more into it than I do. M86=Mechanical 86 degree frame.

[Stedspitcher]

I personally like the name, it reminds me of one of my favorite movies back in 2003.

http://movies.disney.com/the-cheetah-girls

[luke]

LOL, you put alot more into it than I do. M86=Mechanical 86 degree frame.

Only if it falls in my lap. ;)

Mini Vert, not even a actual vert, its an 86. ;)

[OPBN]

I personally like the name, it reminds me of one of my favorite movies back in 2003.

http://movies.disney.com/the-cheetah-girls

I knew it!!!

[luke]

I'm so glad I had to follow the link to know the reference. lol

[luke]

I did some CAD work on the Intelli frame today and I believe it will work, that is as long as I didn't goof up. I have a frame I'll machine tomorrow if I don't get too side tracked with other stuff...

[luke]

I thought I would post this up, there's a few guys concerned about the machining, figured this would help.

This is an AGD Intelli cut in half, the yellow geometry lines are the sections that require machining. I'll supply a little bracket to mount the valve directly to the Intelli's switch mount.

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/Intelli%20T-Rex%20Milling_zpsijkz1ebq.jpg (http://s550.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/Intelli%20T-Rex%20Milling_zpsijkz1ebq.jpg.html)

The large upper section is obviously for the valve body and the smaller lower geometry is simply space for the low pressure hose and hose barb. (Plus it hogs out some dead weight)

Edit:
One for perspective>

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/Intelli%20T-Rex%20Milling%20with%20valve_zpsketx9ugr.jpg (http://s550.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/Intelli%20T-Rex%20Milling%20with%20valve_zpsketx9ugr.jpg.html)

[gotzskillz]

Awesome. Thanks luke. The pictures really help understand what's involved to use one in an intelli.

Hopefully I can snag one once you start taking orders. Since im using an intelli, the "cheatah" is going to be my only option if I want to do a sleaper pneumag, having the LPR inside the grip frame.

Can't wait!!

[Loguzzzzzz]

Awesome. Thanks luke. The pictures really help understand what's involved to use one in an intelli.

Hopefully I can snag one once you start taking orders. Since im using an intelli, the "cheatah" is going to be my only option if I want to do a sleaper pneumag, having the LPR inside the grip frame.

Can't wait!!You cant put the LPR inside because there is no material to tap for the LPR. The bottom of the Intelli-Frame is machined out. take a look at the bottom and you will understand what I am talking about. . . . .

I have one idea that I have been kicking around as a solution to that but I am not willing to share it!

[Loguzzzzzz]

Looking at the "pictures" I see a potential issue. Will the lower machining for the low pressure hose be covered by the grip?
It is hard to tell from that perspective.

[BigEvil]

Looking at the "pictures" I see a potential issue. Will the lower machining for the low pressure hose be covered by the grip?
It is hard to tell from that perspective.

I think the machining is internal and nothing will be opened up outside...at least that's what I take from it.

[luke]

You cant put the LPR inside because there is no material to tap for the LPR. The bottom of the Intelli-Frame is machined out. take a look at the bottom and you will understand what I am talking about. . . . .



Truth.


I have one idea that I have been kicking around as a solution to that but I am not willing to share it!

Me too, just never had the desire to go there. ;)

[luke]

Looking at the "pictures" I see a potential issue. Will the lower machining for the low pressure hose be covered by the grip?
It is hard to tell from that perspective.

No. That does not breach the exterior of the frame. The diameter of that (deep) cut is only 3/8" wide. ;)

[luke]

I think the machining is internal and nothing will be opened up outside...at least that's what I take from it.

Exactly.

[luke]

The depth of the LP hose cavity is a little deceptive too, it's only 5/8" from the hexagon (lowest edge) to the bottom of the cavity, just enough for a gentle bend in the hose.

Damn spell check, I can't type so I have to look at the key board and not the screen!! :p

[OPBN]

The depth of the LP hose cavity is a little deceptive too, it's only 5/8" from the hexagon (lowest edge) to the bottom of the cavity, just enough for a genital bend in the hose.

Ummmm..... Ouch?

[UncleStasiu]

...enough for a genital bend in the hose.

Not sure if I'm less or more interested in this now...

[luke]

No reason to kick a guy in the "gentle(s)" over a miss spelled word! :spit_take

[Loguzzzzzz]

No. That does not breach the exterior of the frame. The diameter of that (deep) cut is only 3/8" wide. ;)

Ahh yes! I see that now.
Cool!

[gotzskillz]

You cant put the LPR inside because there is no material to tap for the LPR. The bottom of the Intelli-Frame is machined out. take a look at the bottom and you will understand what I am talking about. . . . .

I have one idea that I have been kicking around as a solution to that but I am not willing to share it!
Yeah, I noticed that. I'll probably make an insert the the LPR will be threaded into or one of my other ideas.

I've got plenty of ideas, just a lack of machining capability.

[luke]

I just machined an Intelli looks there wont be any issues, there was an area that concerned me but we're good after all. I'll have to clean up the tool path, got some chatter but that can be fixed. Purpose build frames will be so much cleaner. ;)

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/Intelli%20T-Rex%20fit_zpsvwgfjml2.jpg (http://s550.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/Intelli%20T-Rex%20fit_zpsvwgfjml2.jpg.html)

[Nobody]

Purpose build frames will be so much cleaner. ;)

Yet, there are many more intelliframes and other frames out there. Just saying...

[zondo]

What is the hole in the tab towards the back for?

[gotzskillz]

It's for mounting. Luke made his cheatah specifically to fit and mount in his frames. The tab can still be used for other frames but a bracket has to be made.

[luke]

Luke made his cheatah specifically to fit and mount in his frames.

I'm kind of leaning towards the T-Rex name after some thought about it, well after Fred planted it in my head that Cheatah was cheezy (<<get it? lol) ;)

[luke]

What is the hole in the tab towards the back for?

Any frame I make down the road will have a built in mount in the frame, for now there will be a little bracket that can be screwed to the frame.

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/LC%20Cheater%20001_zpsucbr3ere.jpg

[gotzskillz]

I'm kind of leaning towards the T-Rex name after some thought about it, well after Fred planted it in my head that Cheatah was cheezy (<<get it? lol) ;)
I'm good with t-rex. Kinda liked it myself. Just wasn't sure which one you preferred haha.

[luke]

I'm good with t-rex. Kinda liked it myself. Just wasn't sure which one you preferred haha.

Yea me to, Fred got in my head once he explained where he was coming from, now when I see Cheatah it doesn't work for me.

[zondo]

Couldn't you use slightly longer grip screws to hold the valve in?

[Merce]

Couldn't you use slightly longer grip screws to hold the valve in?

Possible. But I believe somewhere earlier in the thread was mentioned the thinness of the walls and how unneeded pressure could eventually lead to failure. Correct me if I'm wrong though

[zondo]

Possible. But I believe somewhere earlier in the thread was mentioned the thinness of the walls and how unneeded pressure could eventually lead to failure. Correct me if I'm wrong though

Yep, found it.

[luke]

Probably, but I wanted to avoid having to fiddle with custom ground screws. I considered set screws, but they were actually a bad fit with the current design of grip panels, plus thin walls on the frame and valve made that a bad idea. It didn't sense to redesign the panels or valve to solve that problem. A mounting tab solves those issues and mounts the valve in the exact place it needs to be. No adjusting or fiddling or concern, just screw it down and your done. ;)


One screw to hold the mount tab in and one screw to hold the valve.
http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/T%20Rex%20Mounts%20002_zpsnmwvz8kj.jpg (http://s550.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/T%20Rex%20Mounts%20002_zpsnmwvz8kj.jpg.html)

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/T%20Rex%20Mounts%20003_zpsj2pxssn5.jpg (http://s550.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/T%20Rex%20Mounts%20003_zpsj2pxssn5.jpg.html)

An intergraded mounting tab into the design of the frame will make the mount 70% smaller and tucked back and out of the way. ;)

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/T%20Rex%20Mounts%20001_zps3aun7lsa.jpg (http://s550.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/T%20Rex%20Mounts%20001_zps3aun7lsa.jpg.html)

The cut cutout around the set screw (RHS) is a grip screw relief so you don't have to have a special length screw. ;)

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/Cheatah%20V11%20001_zpsjbtmovxg.jpg (http://s550.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/Cheatah%20V11%20001_zpsjbtmovxg.jpg.html)

[maverick13]

Very nice.
It will be perfect in my armada !

[flampaint]

do you have a rough estimate as to what you'd charge for milling an Intelli in order to make this fit?
I am quite sure i'll be getting at least two of these by now...

[luke]

do you have a rough estimate as to what you'd charge for milling an Intelli in order to make this fit?
I am quite sure i'll be getting at least two of these by now...

It won't be much, probably my minimum which is mostly a setup fee. ;)

[jame4091]

Well that's good news, cant wait to see this in action!

[G Squat]

Quick question, likely a stupid one... The ram doesn't "toggle" does it? Still stays out until the trigger is released, like standard pneu-setups?

[luke]

Not sure what you mean by toggle, but the ram is returned by the sear.

[Loguzzzzzz]

It appears that there is nothing holding the ram into place. Is it safe to assume that if you pull the trigger with out the sear in place that the ram will be blown out the back?

[luke]

The oring and the system as a whole contains the ram and trigger rod. Yes, the ram will pop out the body if it's not installed in the marker and you trigger the valve, but it actually doesn't get blown/blasted out the back, lol.

I've thought about a spring return which would contain and return the ram, just waiting to do more testing. So far it's been working great but I haven't had enough air to hammer on it yet.

My compressor is in route. ;)

If the design doesn't pan out I'll toss it, but the testing up to this point has been promising...

[G Squat]

Not sure what you mean by toggle, but the ram is returned by the sear.

So, as long as you have the trigger pulled back, the ram will stay back?

[Loguzzzzzz]

The oring and the system as a whole contains the ram and trigger rod. Yes, the ram will pop out the body if it's not installed in the marker and you trigger the valve, but it actually doesn't get blown/blasted out the back, lol.
I meant out the back of the cheater not the frame. . . .:rolleyes:

[luke]

I meant out the back of the cheater not the frame. . . .:rolleyes:

I know, wasn't implying anything, just trying to be clear as possible. ;)

[luke]

So, as long as you have the trigger pulled back, the ram will stay back?

The sear resets the ram, so it stays in the fired position until the on/off pin forces the sear to recock.

[G Squat]

The sear resets the ram, so it stays in the fired position until the on/off pin forces the sear to recock.

I understand that. My question was regarding what was always my problem with pneu-frames... Being that the ram stayed in the "fire" position as long as the trigger was held down and this often led to short-stoking. I always thought it'd be nice to have a ram that acted a lot more like a solenoid. One that was actuated and returned (by the sear) before the trigger is released.

[luke]

This design still needs some rigorous testing, I'm not sure the concerns of previous builds will be relevant to this design or not, the flaws and or performance remain to be seen at this point. ;)

[Dono1]

I'd be interested if it fits your single trigger frame. You probly answered already but I didn't look.

[luke]

I'd be interested if it fits your single trigger frame. You probly answered already but I didn't look.

Yes, it will fit.

The only difference in the frames are the trigger guard.

[MANN]

You cant put the LPR inside because there is no material to tap for the LPR. The bottom of the Intelli-Frame is machined out. take a look at the bottom and you will understand what I am talking about. . . . .

I have one idea that I have been kicking around as a solution to that but I am not willing to share it!

I use to do it. just drill through the frame and tap directly into the asa

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/EP%20mag%20info/IMG_3128-1.jpg (http://s70.photobucket.com/user/mannsports/media/EP%20mag%20info/IMG_3128-1.jpg.html)

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/EP%20mag%20info/IMG_3138.jpg (http://s70.photobucket.com/user/mannsports/media/EP%20mag%20info/IMG_3138.jpg.html)

[G Squat]

I use to do it. just drill through the frame and tap directly into the asa

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/EP%20mag%20info/IMG_3128-1.jpg (http://s70.photobucket.com/user/mannsports/media/EP%20mag%20info/IMG_3128-1.jpg.html)

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/EP%20mag%20info/IMG_3138.jpg (http://s70.photobucket.com/user/mannsports/media/EP%20mag%20info/IMG_3138.jpg.html)

I was gonna say this, but it seemed too obvious.

[Loguzzzzzz]

I use to do it. just drill through the frame and tap directly into the asa

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/EP%20mag%20info/IMG_3128-1.jpg (http://s70.photobucket.com/user/mannsports/media/EP%20mag%20info/IMG_3128-1.jpg.html)

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mannsports/EP%20mag%20info/IMG_3138.jpg (http://s70.photobucket.com/user/mannsports/media/EP%20mag%20info/IMG_3138.jpg.html)
Yeah if you DON'T want an On/Off ASA. . . . . other than using those crappy ones that are made for the Mini. . . . that screw onto the bottle and into the ASA. . . .

In my opinion that is a crappy band-aid . . . . . and I believe that I have built more MOTM Winners (http://s520.photobucket.com/user/jloguzzo/library/AO%20-%20MOTM%20Winners?sort=6&page=1), total 9 at this point.

JUST SAYIN' :D

[Loguzzzzzz]

I was gonna say this, but it seemed too obvious.YEAH, You're So SMART! :rolleyes:

[Loguzzzzzz]

Oh!? . . . . . . .and By The Way, I don't see any internal pneumatics in there. . . . . . .

Show me a completed functioning one!

Sorry for the derail Luke!

[luke]

Guys this is a good topic but one topic for another thread at this point. ;)
Mann, no one is suggesting it's impossible or has never been done, just simply that the Intelli is not the ideal candidate for the LPR install.

[MANN]

There are complete pics somewhere. Along with one in a y frame. It has been years since I have worked on pneumag installs. I agree both were terrible asas (although they were not for the mini). At the time those were what I had so I made them work. You have a lot of nice mags Lougzzz. I was just posting to show it can be done. No it was not ideal, but they were functional.

Enough derailing this thread. I am glad to see it is someone reputable behind this. It is great to finally see someone make a drop in pneumag solution. It makes me want to buy another automag. I hope this becomes a stocked item.

[Merce]

Pleeeease become a stocked item. The anticipation is absolutely killing me. I don't think I have ever felt so stalkerish just by following a thread lol :ninja:

[Syko89]

There are complete pics somewhere. Along with one in a y frame. It has been years since I have worked on pneumag installs. I agree both were terrible asas (although they were not for the mini). At the time those were what I had so I made them work. You have a lot of nice mags Lougzzz. I was just posting to show it can be done. No it was not ideal, but they were functional.

Enough derailing this thread. I am glad to see it is someone reputable behind this. It is great to finally see someone make a drop in pneumag solution. It makes me want to buy another automag. I hope this becomes a stocked item.

I believe luke said that it wouldn't work in a y or z frame due to the milling behind the trigger area is to thin

[NU_METAL]

You know ,.....i would be " Willing " to help field test this "T-Rex " valve .
All ya have to do is Send me one and the little mounting adapter of course LOL j/k
Im 99% sure im gonna buy one ,and a mount block for this build :ninja: so add me to the list if your making one

http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/nu_metal9470/IMG_0724_zps76c93323.jpg (http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/nu_metal9470/media/IMG_0724_zps76c93323.jpg.html)

Figures you'd come out with an updated vert 86*, and awesome poppet valve , after im done LOL :rolleyes: :rofl: :cry:

[luke]

I do apologize for not getting it out sooner, I'm trying my best to do right by you guys that have already purchased frames. Installs will be free including the bracket, plus the design is based around the current frame, I kind of needed to do some revisions but didn't. ;)

The updated frame will simply have a built in threaded tab, however it's a ways off. I will not be doing an undated frame until current inventory is gone, no telling how long that will be. ;)

[need4reebs]

where are tha pics of tha internals of tha Cheater...or wat ever ur gonna call it…gonna be posted? ya posted pics of ur LPR fore grip internals…lets see sum internals of these?

[Merce]

I do apologize for not getting it out sooner, I'm trying my best to do right by you guys
This is the reason why you are the best.

So if the install is free would it be possible to order the T-rex as well as the frame and some other pieces all at once? I've been holding off on getting them until the T-Rex is complete.

[luke]

you bet

[Cummins1290]

Would you be able to post some pics of the internals?? Just curious on it, just want to know the product before wanting to buy and would personally like to see them!

[luke]

I'm not posting pictures of internals right now, sorry.

[Cummins1290]

I'm not posting pictures of internals right now, sorry.

Ok, no problem!

[need4reebs]

I'm not posting pictures of internals right now, sorry.

WEAK!!! how come no pics of tha internals. post up sum 3D pics of tha internals like ya do w/ur other parts. :D

[luke]

Buy one and take it apart. :)

[1985phenom]

Will you offer a service to have these preinstalled with your frames when purchased at the same time?

[need4reebs]

Buy one and take it apart. :)


:thefinger:whoo whee….check out that sales pitch yo!!! so ya want money for these yet wen sum one asks for pics of tha internals to see wat they are gonna give you money for you say to buy it first and take it apart? didnt someone ask for a video of it shooting wen you posted how good it was shooting? does no video mean "buy one and take your own video"?:thefinger:

[flampaint]

:thefinger:whoo whee….check out that sales pitch yo!!! so ya want money for these yet wen sum one asks for pics of tha internals to see wat they are gonna give you money for you say to buy it first and take it apart? didnt someone ask for a video of it shooting wen you posted how good it was shooting? does no video mean "buy one and take your own video"?:thefinger:

I'll agree on the video part, I'd love to see one as well (purely out of curiosity though!). Although, I'm sure that these will work....

As for posting renderings or pics of the internals: I don't believe that Luke needs to post any of that in order to prove something. Luke has quite the positive reputation on here and he'd be a complete fool to try and rip off people now all of a sudden with this product... All the stuff I've bought from him has been A+ quality and I am 100% sure he knows what he's doing in this case too.

just my 2 cents on this and sorry if this went OT a bit once again

[Merce]

To need4reebs: Well seeing that Luke is extremely reputable and has very good customer handling skills for a small business I would make the assumption that he's just too busy actually trying to perfect his product than to bow down to your every command.

[jame4091]

:thefinger:whoo whee….check out that sales pitch yo!!! so ya want money for these yet wen sum one asks for pics of tha internals to see wat they are gonna give you money for you say to buy it first and take it apart? didnt someone ask for a video of it shooting wen you posted how good it was shooting? does no video mean "buy one and take your own video"?:thefinger:

Man, sometimes it tough to tell when someone is being facetious or just a tool (not in this case). It's his product, his design and ultimately his decision to give out schematics on a design that is not even finished yet. If you are not satisfied by that than just don't buy one, I'm just happy there are folks willing to put these designs and parts together. Hell I don't see a lot of profit in it, so amazed people still do it.

[luke]

:thefinger:whoo whee….check out that sales pitch yo!!! so ya want money for these yet wen sum one asks for pics of tha internals to see wat they are gonna give you money for you say to buy it first and take it apart? didnt someone ask for a video of it shooting wen you posted how good it was shooting? does no video mean "buy one and take your own video"?:thefinger:

Read the entire thread for updates.

[luke]

I'll agree on the video part, I'd love to see one as well (purely out of curiosity though!). Although, I'm sure that these will work....


:)
As I posted on the 9th I'm out of air and waiting on my compressor so I can do more testing.
I'm not going to post a video until I'm done with the prototype testing, it makes no sense to do so before I've finished the design.
;)

[boo]

You cant put the LPR inside because there is no material to tap for the LPR. The bottom of the Intelli-Frame is machined out. take a look at the bottom and you will understand what I am talking about. . . . .

I have one idea that I have been kicking around as a solution to that but I am not willing to share it!

I had asked Luke about maybe machining a simple solution like this

He said if he got enough people to cover the cost he'd do it.

91004

Basically this simple part would let you make a sleeper mag with the LPR in the grip and use any choice of dovetail On/Offs including our beloved adjustable tank regulators like the Armageddons, Flatlines, and SP MaxFlo's. If it's popular enough maybe make some with the hole on the left and some with the hole on the right?

Combine this with a tickler LPR, Lukes frame (pre drilled on the bottom) and cheater and it's about as turn key as you can get for a self contained sleeper setup without having to dremel any expensive custom stuff.

Use one of these to screw into the ntp port on the drop, through the hole in the bottom of the frame, and into the LPR
91005

Happy to share ideas cuz nobody gets rich off paintball and the person turning an idea into reality is the one putting in the work.

[gotzskillz]

Correct me if I'm wrong/confused, so the air out from the Asa goes into the side of the drop and then to the lpr. How does it get to the marker vavlve?

[OPBN]

Luke has done quite a bit for the Mag community (including contributing a fair amount of money to keep this forum going from what I understand) and I am sure he will thoroughly test and provide a shooting video to show this product in action, but attacking him or attempting to brow beat him into posting up cad or specs of a product he is selling is a bit much. Considering the main antagonist has posted up on FB that he has made his own version of the cheater a couple of weeks back seems questionable at best. For the sake of those of us asking for someone to take the reigns up and start producing Cheaters or a version of them, please stop attempting to derail this thread.

Keep up the good work Luke.

[luke]

The Shoebox arrived but I didn't catch on to the fact that I needed a oil free prestage compressor until this arrived so I wasn't prepared when it showed up. I looked locally but didn't see anything I liked so I ordered one. Testing will be postponed for a little longer, were inching closer. :)


http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/shoeboxf8%20001_zpssfx567vy.jpg (http://s550.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/shoeboxf8%20001_zpssfx567vy.jpg.html)


I gotta say that the workmanship on the F8 is far beyond what I'm use to in todays world. This thing is gorgeous and screams made in America (Back when that meant something)! Well done TK. :cool:

[knownothingmags]

yeah you need oil free, you are filling tanks to a point of pressure that will make your tanks a bomb if oil comes in with the air. :rolleyes:

but it is cool to see you finally got one.

does this mean more pneumatic type products to come?

[luke]

Air makes many things possible and no more 4 hour trips to fill scuba tanks, and better yet no more running out! :)

[knownothingmags]

Air makes many things possible and no more 4 hours trips to fill scuba tanks, and better yet no more running out! :)

that awesome.
I have the compressor but no F8 :)

[boo]

Correct me if I'm wrong/confused, so the air out from the Asa goes into the side of the drop and then to the lpr. How does it get to the marker vavlve?

I was thinking just a simple 1/8 npt t valve
91007

[luke]

Boo, please start a new thread so we can keep this on track. Thanks.

[knownothingmags]

Boo, please start a new thread so we can keep this on track. Thanks.

+1

[Patron God of Pirates]

Boo, please start a new thread so we can keep this on track. Thanks.

+2

[Nobody]

Air makes many things possible and no more 4 hour trips to fill scuba tanks, and better yet no more running out! :)

I can literally drive through 4 states in that time. From my house to Washington D.C. i vuess it doesn't help that you kive in a desert

[Loguzzzzzz]

buy one and take it apart. :)Good Answer!

[jame4091]

Hows the testing going?

[luke]

The Shoebox arrived but I didn't catch on to the fact that I needed a oil free prestage compressor until this arrived so I wasn't prepared when it showed up. I looked locally but didn't see anything I liked so I ordered one. Testing will be postponed for a little longer, were inching closer. :)


http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/shoeboxf8%20001_zpssfx567vy.jpg (http://s550.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/shoeboxf8%20001_zpssfx567vy.jpg.html)




I gotta say that the workmanship on the F8 is far beyond what I'm use to in todays world. This thing is gorgeous and screams made in America (Back when that meant something)! Well done TK. :cool:

Still waiting on the oil free compressor, it still hasn't shipped, getting antsy...

[Merce]

I think we're all a little antsy lol :D

[luke]

I'm trying to cancel my online order for the compressor and just buy one local...

[Merce]

I remember when we used to have a tiny hardware store in our little town that'd order stuff for you. Now we have to drive hours to the home depot for anything

[luke]

I'm trying to cancel my online order for the compressor and just buy one local...


It looks like it's going on the UPS truck tonight. :)

[luke]

Small update:
Received my Emag magnets and my air compressor this morning.

Also, just finished machining the test frame, I added an 1/8" hole under the sear at the on/off and added machining for magnets to aid trigger return.
http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/Shoebox%20001_zps4pa34bge.jpg (http://s550.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/Shoebox%20001_zps4pa34bge.jpg.html)

Got the shoebox cranking out some air, just a few minutes away from filling my first SCUBA tank.
http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/Shoebox%20005_zpsbwji4ljj.jpg (http://s550.photobucket.com/user/mtumbleson/media/Shoebox%20005_zpsbwji4ljj.jpg.html)

It's too late to do any testing on the OLTR valve but will get after it tomorrow.

[going_home]

I see the magnet at the arrow on the right but whats the left arrow pointing to ?

(the toothpick was a nice touch !)

;)

[captian pinky]

its to push the sear so you can pull the valve when it has been degassed. same thing is on the hyperframes.

[grub]

Ok where is the update:stick:

-grub

[luke]

I ran 2000 psi from a scuba tank through the new v11 valve that was untested, it works and all but there "seems" to be a performance difference compared to the v9.1 which I like so much.

I really like the v9.1s performance all around, I actually have no complaints with it at all, but the way its setup it goes against what AGD says is required in general for a valve to operate properly. Also, its 180* different compared to the MPA3 ram setup which gives a small mental obstacle to hurtle. I have brain freeze on the next step (lol) so I'm planning to retest v9.1 on the three AGD valves I have because I don't have a better plan. :rolleyes:

I think I know the problem with the v11 but its not an easy fix and I'm 75% sure I can't do it on this current platform anyway, which pretty much means a new design from ground zero.

Currently topping off the scuba, by tomorrow I should have two full scuba tanks.

[luke]

Just setup and tested an X valve with ULT (On the v9.1) it rips! Performance may be better than ReTro valve with a standard on/off valve. :)

[barkingspider]

Just setup and tested an X valve with ULT (On the v9.1) it rips! Performance may be better than ReTro valve with a standard on/off valve. :)

I'm not questioning whether you did your homework, but have you gained any understanding from AGD concerning the stated requirements for the valve to operated and behave properly versus your knowledge and findings from v9.1? I would think there has to be a logical explanation?

[luke]

I have not talked to AGD about this, I'm just going off the known facts as they relate to the trigger rod length and the on/off pin. I was only referring to what we know about requirements for a tuned mechanical marker and how the MPA3 is normally set up in a Pneumag. The v9.1 basically breaks every one of those rules, and works great and I don't know why, lol. What's troublesome is that it works better than all the other I've tested but by the "rules" it shouldn't...

[luke]

I shot two little videos, they're basically the same but I'll post both. Don't give me crap about my lazy arse fingers, I know they're slow!

OLTR with X-valve with ULT.

#1
http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/th_OLTR%20X%20Valve%20with%20ULT%20001_zpsxyt4b7lc .mp4 (http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/OLTR%20X%20Valve%20with%20ULT%20001_zpsxyt4b7lc.mp 4)

#2
http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/th_OLTR%20X%20Valve%20with%20ULT%20002_zpskkj7ej1z .mp4 (http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/OLTR%20X%20Valve%20with%20ULT%20002_zpskkj7ej1z.mp 4)

[knownothingmags]

looking at the pictures, what is the minimum wall thickness near those top gripframe screws?

[knownothingmags]

no I mean from inside to outside

[luke]

The wall thickness is 0.08" on the Mini Vert.
The wall thickness on the Intelli is 0.09".

[BigEvil]

Is there a trigger stop in that trigger? Looks like there is a lot of over travel. How adjustable will this be ?

[luke]

All the adjustment is in the trigger (Two stops) so its completely adjustable in that regard.
The valve stem has a travel distance of 0.04" and has an internal stop so the valve can't bottom out.
This frame has the magnets at the top stop so I didn't bother playing with the set screws.
If you look closely at the video you will see that the trigger is not hitting the back of the guard so the travel is shorter than it looks. ;)

[barkingspider]

Yep....definitely exciting stuff!

[luke]

Here are a few more tests, just to show what I'm seeing and where the project is at testing wise, I don't think its a final design.

My camera batteries were low so I wasn't picky on the video I kept, they died after the last test so this is it for now.

Retro Valve with 0.74" on/off pin>
http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/th_OLTR%20Retro%20Valve%20740%20in%20pin_zpsf9gxg3 1f.mp4 (http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/OLTR%20Retro%20Valve%20740%20in%20pin_zpsf9gxg31f. mp4)

Retro Valve #2 with 0.75" on/off pin. 40 psi to OLTR. Full RT effect, I cuffed a few times but didn't have the camera batter to re shoot.
http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/th_OLTR%20Retro%20Valve%20Full%20RT%20750%20pin_zp sla9msi74.mp4 (http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/OLTR%20Retro%20Valve%20Full%20RT%20750%20pin_zpsla 9msi74.mp4)

Retro Valve #2 0.75" on/off pin about 43-44 psi boarder line full RT which my lazy finger like.
http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/th_OLTR%20Retro%20Valve%20750%20pin_zpsosh82mqr.mp 4 (http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii405/mtumbleson/OLTR%20Retro%20Valve%20750%20pin_zpsosh82mqr.mp4)

[cougar20th]

WEAK!!! how come no pics of tha internals. post up sum 3D pics of tha internals like ya do w/ur other parts. :D

As much as I would love to see whats going on I would advise Luke not to post pictures of the internals. Atleast until they are selling. Which then at some point a buyer is gonna take one apart and show everyone.

The reason is simple. There are people like me out there that can reverse engineer from a picture to a very good degree. Now unlike myself some will not have the decency to not reverse engineer it. I know lukes put alot of time into this and I would hate to see anyones design copied. Having your design copied is NOT flattering its a violation.

Fyi for anyone: Never post a straight picture/rendering of your design. Especially before you make it. Always have it skewed. Wont stop someone but makes it alot more difficult.

[luke]

Agreed 100%, me too. ;)

However the internals are not a huge secret nothing magical there. The big deal is the attitude of the guy demanding to see then throwing a temper tantrum when he didn't get his way. I don't feel I'm under any obligation to share anything I don't want to. Actually the post was no big surprise, if anything I got a little laugh out of it. :)

[luke]

Is there a trigger stop in that trigger? Looks like there is a lot of over travel. How adjustable will this be ?

TBH I really haven't tried to dial these in real tight, I was more concerned about basic function over ridge fine tuning. I did do some more tests after you ask about it and was able to remove a bunch to travel with the lower set screw, actually the screw wasn't long enough, I could have taken more out. ;)

I'll spend more time on that as I start to dial these in.

[SpyderBoy]

I haven't read through the whole thread yet so forgive me if I've missed something... But PLEASE ADD ME TO THE LIST! :)

Assuming this will fit an Intelliframe at some point I'm in! Put me down for 1 please.

*EDIT* Ok. Now I've read the whole thread... No change to my preliminary sentiment. */EDIT*

[luke]

Assuming this will fit an Intelliframe at some point I'm in! Put me down for 1 please.

See post #153 page 6. ;)

[going_home]

I like that trigger the best of your 3 options.

When do you get time to restore old vehicles ?

[flampaint]

nice! getting more anctious about this by the day.
I like the rail on your test-mag btw. Is that one of yours? (aplogies for the OT)

[luke]

The first machining I ever did was I ULE milled my AM rail, this was my second, its an RTP rail.

[dodge3500]

I just watched the vids you made and they made me grin from ear to ear.:-)
Looking sweet.