Just got this: what do I have?

[Chikahiro]

Hello!

Long story short, a friend/coworker of mine bought a storage unit, and there was a Automat in there. After hitting up MCarter Brown, I got enough info to tell what she had, what it was worth(-ish), and lamented I couldn't offer her a fair price. She asked how much would I offer, and I said $40. She said "$50, but that'll be for all the paintball stuff" (Automap, an older Spider Victor, grav hopper, and a Ricochet feeder).

Sold!

So, here is what I've got:
http://1drv.ms/1DUaDtl

There's a number on the sides: CF11247. I'm under the impression this isn't stock, but I'm not sure. I'm trying to figure out what parts I might need to get, where I can get manuals, resources, etc., and get ideas of what I can do with this thing for the next time I play paintball (figure I'll let my nieces use my Spider MR100 and GOG eNMey).

I'm very much a noob here! :D

[going_home]

Just put oil in the asa, screw in the tank, and play !


;)

[notoriousMAG]

Get some air in your tank and check if the gun leaks(after you've oiled it of course). Worst case you will need a $20 oring kit.

The classic automag valve will run on co2 but high pressure air(HPA) is highly recommended. Save the co2 tank for the spider.

Search youtube for "Tom Kaye" for everything you need to know about the classic valve.

Nice score on good ole 'mag...and welcome to the forums!

[Cyco-Dude]

you have an automag with an air america expansion chamber and a j & j hard chrome brass barrel. here is the manual (http://www.airgundesignsusa.com/Images/automan.pdf) and here is an exploded diagram of the valve (http://www.airgundesignsusa.com/downloads/valveexplodedview.pdf). you can get an automag parts kit directly from airgun designs, tunamart (just pm tunaman here), ans gear, ebay occasionally, etc.

[Chikahiro]

I'll be going to HPA, as our field has free HPA refills when you play (covered by field/rental fees, and the fact people with air shoot more paint :p ). I do have half a mind to see if I can make this sorta stock-class with a tube feed, since as much as I'd like a mag-fed, they're out of the budget right now.

[Cyco-Dude]

that would be easy, just go here and buy one of mad custom's feed tube adapters (http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/mad-customs/250583-madcustoms-marketplace.html). you just put an elbow on your feedneck, and then put the adapter in the elbow. it will let you use 10-round tubes to feed paint. grab some ronin stock class bracelets (http://www.ebay.com/itm/300935199966?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT) and some 10-round tubes and you'll be all set on the cheap!

[Tunaman]

you have an automag with an air america expansion chamber and a j & j hard chrome brass barrel. here is the manual (http://www.airgundesignsusa.com/Images/automan.pdf) and here is an exploded diagram of the valve (http://www.airgundesignsusa.com/downloads/valveexplodedview.pdf). you can get an automag parts kit directly from airgun designs, tunamart (just pm tunaman here), ans gear, ebay occasionally, etc.Actually it's a Smart Parts Whispering Death expansion chamber. One of the best ever made for co2.;)

[ScottyBeans]

It says on there it's by Smart Parts and Air America, so maybe both?

In any case well worth the $50. Nice find!

[Tunaman]

It says on there it's by Smart Parts and Air America, so maybe both?

In any case well worth the $50. Nice find!Yes. I stand corrected!

[athomas]

Smart Parts used to market their own custom setups using other companies parts. I used to remember staring at the magazine ads for these Smart Parts mags. They were the best setups on the market at that time. Based on the serial number, I'd say this is a 1993 vintage mag.

[BigEvil]

NICE old school set up. I call dibs!!!!

[going_home]

NICE old school set up. I call dibs!!!!

Dibs on what ?




:confused:

[Chikahiro]

Well, the bit from the marker to the CO2 expansion thing was leaking air. The o-rings around the barrel were in horrible shape as well - age plus I'm assuming heat must have gotten to them. Should be fun to work on :D

[Cyco-Dude]

It says on there it's by Smart Parts and Air America, so maybe both?

In any case well worth the $50. Nice find!


Yes. I stand corrected!
well, the expansion chamber says whispering death by air america. the part that says smart parts and air america is the "smart remote". that looks to be a separate asa attached to another expansion chamber for a remote-mounted tank. looks to have everything there; asa to nipple adapter with in-line filter, remote line with slide check...that thing came straight outta the 90's in a time machine, haha! :D

interesting how the vasa has been milled down to accommodate the whispering death expansion chamber. i've seen some milled like that before and always wondered why they were like that...i guess i know now!

[Chikahiro]

well, the expansion chamber says whispering death by air america. the part that says smart parts and air america is the "smart remote". that looks to be a separate asa attached to another expansion chamber for a remote-mounted tank. looks to have everything there; asa to nipple adapter with in-line filter, remote line with slide check...that thing came straight outta the 90's in a time machine, haha! :D

interesting how the vasa has been milled down to accommodate the whispering death expansion chamber. i've seen some milled like that before and always wondered why they were like that...i guess i know now!

Do I need that at all? Not really, right? I plan to use HPA unless I try to make a stock-class configuration, in which case it'd be 12-grams...

[athomas]

If you are going to run HPA, you don't need the expansion chamber. Just run a gas-through front grip. It'll be a bit more compact and lighter.

[Chikahiro]

Update! Gallery here: work in progress right now.
http://1drv.ms/1Cvq4CC

I got some of the extra accessories off of it, and just installed a new safety. Because, well, safety first! The top part of the safety mechanism didn't quite fit, so I'm contacting the guy I bought it from to see if there's anything a little smaller that'll work.

I was trying to remove the thing the CO2 expansion chamber attached to, but sadly it seems to have rusted in place or something. I can't get the hex-bolt out. Even damaged my tool (it felt like it was moving, but turns out it was just twisting). As such, I might just leave it there for now :/

I figure it'll take a few checks to get everything I want/need. I'm debating turning it into a stock-class marker (12grams and tube-fed), but I'm not entirely sure just yet. I definitely want to clean it up a bit, but am not sure how or to what end.

Looking forward to this! :D

[OPBN]

The front vertical ASA screws are infamous for rusting and "freezing". I've stripped probably a dozen of them. You may have to buy an Easy Out set and remove it if you want it to come off. Where did you get the safety from? Maybe it wasn't for an AGD spec frame?

[Tunaman]

The 4-40 set screw may not work as the old frames were not tapped for it. They used to just drop the ball and spring in the hole then set the rail down on it. A lot of balls and springs were lost hence the changeover to a tapped hole.

[Chikahiro]

The 4-40 set screw may not work as the old frames were not tapped for it. They used to just drop the ball and spring in the hole then set the rail down on it. A lot of balls and springs were lost hence the changeover to a tapped hole.

I went ahead and just set the rail down for now. I'm not sure how I'd "tap" the frame. Though, since the vertical air thingie seems to have rusted in place, its been suggested I take it to a machine shop anyhow... I dunno. We'll see. Maybe I can improvise something. Does the screw keep tension on the spring and ball keeping it in? Or does it prevent the spring and ball from falling out accidentally when the marker is disassembled? Knowing why its there will help me figure stuff out.

I haven't looked at the internal assembly yet (can't remember the name of the parts), plan to "soon." I do need to replace the hoses and fittings, since those were leaking when I gassed it up.

Tunaman, do you have a beginner's kit of parts? I keep looking at your site and am afraid I'll order something then figure out I missed something in the middle of working on stuff... :/

[Cyco-Dude]

I went ahead and just set the rail down for now. I'm not sure how I'd "tap" the frame. Though, since the vertical air thingie seems to have rusted in place, its been suggested I take it to a machine shop anyhow... I dunno. We'll see. Maybe I can improvise something. Does the screw keep tension on the spring and ball keeping it in? Or does it prevent the spring and ball from falling out accidentally when the marker is disassembled? Knowing why its there will help me figure stuff out.

I haven't looked at the internal assembly yet (can't remember the name of the parts), plan to "soon." I do need to replace the hoses and fittings, since those were leaking when I gassed it up.

Tunaman, do you have a beginner's kit of parts? I keep looking at your site and am afraid I'll order something then figure out I missed something in the middle of working on stuff... :/
you would do it just like tunaman said; once the safety is in (you probably have to take the trigger out to get it in), you just drop the ball in, drop the spring in...and that's it. once it's up against the rail, it's not going anywhere. the newer carbon frames probably weren't tapped at all; you just screwed the setscrew into it and they thread themselves in.

as for the rusted bolt on the vertical asa...i would just leave it as-is. get a gas-through foregrip to screw into it or whatever you like, there are plenty of cheap options out there.

[Chikahiro]

I've got the spring and ball in a prescribed. Was just wondering what role the screw-in played in the general scheme of things.

Minor things to look into later: how to make the gun all pretty again. That rail was hiding some beautiful, untouched metal! Likewise, the handle/grip could really use a good cleaning. I'll do a search for that later on.

[Tunaman]

I can tap that hole for you if you want...let me know.

[Cyco-Dude]

I've got the spring and ball in a prescribed. Was just wondering what role the screw-in played in the general scheme of things.

Minor things to look into later: how to make the gun all pretty again. That rail was hiding some beautiful, untouched metal! Likewise, the handle/grip could really use a good cleaning. I'll do a search for that later on.
it just held the spring and ball in the frame so they didn't fall out. the gun looks fine to me as it sits lol...these things can be pretty old, and have the scars to prove it. these are working guns man, just wash it, rebuild the valve if it needs it and take it to the field and shoot some fools! :D

[Chikahiro]

I can tap that hole for you if you want...let me know.

I'll email you, thanks. Might need help making a shopping list :p


it just held the spring and ball in the frame so they didn't fall out. the gun looks fine to me as it sits lol...these things can be pretty old, and have the scars to prove it. these are working guns man, just wash it, rebuild the valve if it needs it and take it to the field and shoot some fools! :D

Erg... I'll probably need to get the bits to rebuild the valve...

[Chikahiro]

Actually it's a Smart Parts Whispering Death expansion chamber. One of the best ever made for co2.;)

Hmm... what should I do with it? I'm sort of clueless here. I have zero idea if it even works.

Anyhow - mailing stuff off for tapping. Any other things I should be considering to do with it?

[blackdeath1k]

Man. Looking at that mag reminds me of my old mag when I was in JH. (94ish). Feel like I'm looking in the way back time machine.

[Chikahiro]

Question: the parts kit I have had two of the new plastic detents. However, it looks like the barrel washers are smaller than what my mag uses. Do they stretch? Are they for another part of the barrel? Are they flat out for a different barrel?

http://1drv.ms/1DQL3Sb

That said - totally excited to get busy and working on it! :D

[athomas]

The orings stretch. They are sized to be tight.

[Chikahiro]

Thank you!

I've been told the frame has seen better days, so its old and seemingly well used. Which ain't bad! It does mean I'll need to work on more stuff in time.

[Chikahiro]

Got 'em on, not as bad as I thought they'd be.

Next step? Gotta order a 45 degree elbow, two new air nozzle things, and braided hose. I'm debating if I want to try seeing of the CO2 expansion mount will work for my HPA remote line or not, as that'll determine hose length. I could try mounting an ASA on the back, or the bottom of the grip.

All my hoppers are gravity fed, will that he a problem? When it fires, is it smooth like my eNMEy? Or is it like my Spyder MR-100 and a bit more substantial?

I think I might make a noob tube for modified stock, but wonder if I need a rotor hopper to help me feeding more constant.

Also, how do I tell what generation /level this is? Does it matter?

[athomas]

It won't kick like a lot of other guns because it isn't a blowback design. There will be some slight movement due to the mass of the moving bolt, but its negligible. The only real kick will be from the force of propelling the ball. All guns have this, though.

The generation is a level 7 based on the powerfed body and the fact that those Smart Parts gun setups were sold during the level 7 era.

You might want to update to a level 10 bolt. It will prevent chops, especially if you use a gravity hopper.

[Chikahiro]

How do I know if my Automag is eligable? AGD has a list of ones that it'll work with, but I'm not sure what I've got exactly.

What are the other benefits to it?

[Chikahiro]

And since there's not much kick, would a Proto Primo work nicely?

[athomas]

The Proto Primo should work fine. Most paintball gun produce enough natural kick to move any lightly stacked balls, especially ones that don't have a whole hopper of balls pushing down on them.

The level 10 works on all automag valves.

[Chikahiro]

Cool! :D

Another silly question - I've got the old-style barrel that you put in and turn. Are there any adapters out there that'll let me use normal barrels? Or am I stuck with it until I do some major upgrades or buy another barrel? More curious than anything since i haven't had a chance to shoot the automag yet. I'm assuming/hoping the barrel is fine.

Just ordered some more macro-line. My friend commented the line seemed awfully short, and didn't seem cut well, so maybe that's where the leak was? Hrm... now I just realized I should've ordered some o-rings for the things, too.

[athomas]

Yes, there are adapters that will allow you to use a cocker barrel in your twist-lock body.

Doc's automag barrel adapter. (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Docs-Automag-to-Autococker-thread-Barrel-Adapter-Mag-to-Cocker-paintball-gun-/171617322776?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27f5308718)

[Chikahiro]

Update! :D

So, got my order in from ANS - a 45degree elbow/feedneck which works perfectly, and two new o-rings along with two new macrolines. Cut the lines, still leaked. Changed the o-rings, and that part of the marker is done. Still leaking, but its back where the bolt is, so I'll be using the kit I got from TunaMart to replace all the o-rings in there. Probably too busy tomorrow to do it, and will be too busy on Mother's Day to work on the marker or go playing paintball. Ah well!

I subscribe to the theory that you start with the simplest solutions first, and work your way up in cost/complexity. Works well for computers, at any rate :)

In theory, I'll be able to use the Automag next time I go and play, which is awesome! I still want to get the bits to make it into a modified stock marker as well, but that'll have to wait until next payday. The barrel adapter will likewise need to wait. But, overall? I'm pretty happy! Debating if I want to get another remote-line plug, as I think I only want to use it with my heavier markers (the Automag and my Spyder MR-100).

Thanks for the help, everyone! :D

[athomas]

Still leaking, but its back where the bolt is, so I'll be using the kit I got from TunaMart to replace all the o-rings in there. Change the powertube oring first.

If it still leaks, you will need a shorter powertube spacer. Chances are that yours has a powertube spring instead of a spacer. If you don't have any spacers, you can shorten the spring by sanding one end to reduce the overall length. Do this by placing a piece of sandpaper on a flat surface and rub the flat spring end back and forth over it.

[Chikahiro]

Change the powertube oring first.

If it still leaks, you will need a shorter powertube spacer. Chances are that yours has a powertube spring instead of a spacer. If you don't have any spacers, you can shorten the spring by sanding one end to reduce the overall length. Do this by placing a piece of sandpaper on a flat surface and rub the flat spring end back and forth over it.

Interesting! No idea what a spacer is, though >_<

The manual I found wasn't helpful, sadly. I did get out a lot of old o-rings, though, and some of them were way yucky.
http://1drv.ms/1DZxC14

I'm still missing stuff. Still leaking, but one step at a time.

[Chikahiro]

Well, my spring pack assembly doesn't look like anything in the manual.
http://1drv.ms/1J1Baaf

Right now air is coming straight out the back, so its clear I messed something up inadvertantly. I also noticed the disc on the spring pack assembly is a little warped which doesn't help matters any.

[Nobody]

The spring pack is where you adjust the velocity. Something totally different. The powertube, is where the bolt sits and transfers the air crom the valve to the ball. Under that brass tip, older guns had a small spring to seat the bolt. Newer guns have a spacer. A L10 kit replaceces the spacer with a newer one as well as the bolt, working in conjunction to be able to bounce off paint. That spacer/spring is what 5he above were referring to.

[athomas]

Yeah, those orings are pretty bad. It definately wasn't going to hold air.

The automag manual is here: Automag manual (http://www.airgundesignsusa.com/Images/automan.pdf)

The automag exploded view is here: Automag valve exploded view (http://www.airgundesignsusa.com/downloads/valveexplodedview.pdf)

The spacer is inside the powertube. When you unscrew the brass tip from the front of the valve, you will remove it first followed by the powertube oring.

[OPBN]

Have you watched the YouTube videos where Tom Kaye explains in detail (7 videos worth) how to tear down and tech Automags? If not, you really need to watch them.

[athomas]

Given the state of your orings, make sure you change every one of them to start.

Your velocity adjustment parts, which are your piston and spring pack, are probably fine. They generally don't go bad, especially if they haven't had tons of use. The small end of the spring pack goes inside the adjuster cap, opposite from the orientation shown in your picture.

A leak out the back is usually due to a leaking regulator seat oring. Check that it is seated in place and that there isn't a piece of dirt on it.

[Chikahiro]

Yeah, those orings are pretty bad. It definately wasn't going to hold air.

The automag manual is here: Automag manual (http://www.airgundesignsusa.com/Images/automan.pdf)

The automag exploded view is here: Automag valve exploded view (http://www.airgundesignsusa.com/downloads/valveexplodedview.pdf)

The spacer is inside the powertube. When you unscrew the brass tip from the front of the valve, you will remove it first followed by the powertube oring.
Thanks. The exploded view helped more than the manual. Whatever I got is old enough that there are differences. Must've got a real old one :)


Have you watched the YouTube videos where Tom Kaye explains in detail (7 videos worth) how to tear down and tech Automags? If not, you really need to watch them.
I completely forgot about those! I'll watch'em, thank you :)


Given the state of your orings, make sure you change every one of them to start.

Your velocity adjustment parts, which are your piston and spring pack, are probably fine. They generally don't go bad, especially if they haven't had tons of use. The small end of the spring pack goes inside the adjuster cap, opposite from the orientation shown in your picture.

A leak out the back is usually due to a leaking regulator seat oring. Check that it is seated in place and that there isn't a piece of dirt on it.
All o-rings changed. So, either I've done something wrong (entirely possible), or missed something.

So, before I go (much) further - would it be better to keep working on this til it works? Or start looking to replace larger parts of the systems? Tunaman noted the trigger frame is worn, for instance.

Looks like I need to get spacers, though? Hrm...

[Chikahiro]

Actually, given I'm likely to screw things up... can anyone help me make a parts list with TunaMart? Do I need to disassemble the whole thing first to help see? I figure I'd better order more o-rings, just in case...

[athomas]

Thanks. The exploded view helped more than the manual. Whatever I got is old enough that there are differences. Must've got a real old one :)The only real differences should be the on-off top and the powertube spacers.

Yours should have an on-off top with a X cut in the under side. The X side sits on the larger bottom section. The new ones are a universal fit, so it doesn't matter which way is up. The old ones work fine.

Your powertube probably has a spring instead of a spacer. The spacers allow you to tune your oring placement, so that you can compensate for tolerance differences in your setup and also compensate for your sear wearing.

[Chikahiro]

Does the disk on the spring assembly need to be flat and flush?

[athomas]

The disk on the spring pack will find its natural flat and flush location when it contacts the back end of the piston assembly.

[Chikahiro]

More photos on the state of things...
http://1drv.ms/1zRsl0m

I've run out of air, so no more testing right now.

Also, the videos from the sticky are gone? Deleted? Did they move? :(

[athomas]

It seems you have an 8-hole mod on the back half of your valve. Those were done to alot of the early mags to solve the recharge issue due to the single hole not lining up with the one in the front half. The only hole that actually needed to be drilled was the one that lined up with the hole in the front section.

Your on-off top section is an aftermarket part, which is why it looked different than the one in the manual. It should be fine though.

The videos on the you-tube channel must have gotten moved and the links aren't updated.

[Chikahiro]

Ah, so I'm not running stock. That might be part of why I'm getting confused (don't take much :p ).

[Chikahiro]

Is this the famous video 7?
https://youtu.be/7C_1nufgDmU

Super useful! Thank you for getting me to look :)

[Chikahiro]

Okay, right now I'm wondering how long a braided steel hose I'd need to go from the back of the velocity adjustment tube to the vertical ASA. It measures 6", and I figure I'll need more just to get it out properly? How do you deal with the extra hose?

[athomas]

I used to run mine so that it looped just over the lower end of the powerfeed tube. That way you could have access to the powerfeed plug and the loop allows more line flexibility for disconnecting or working on the valve. In that location, it stays out of the way and looks good. The actual length will be determined by your fittings, but the loop also gives you some flexibility on the length so that it doesn't need to be exact.

[Chikahiro]

Maybe a silly question: I realized that marker had an expansion chamber for CO2. My eNMEy has a handle/regulator. I think my Spyders have regulators as well. I think the Automag has one built in - right? Watched a TechPB noting markers can have between 2-3 regulators, each one progressively.lowering pressure?

Is that something I need to think about? Or am.i fine to just plug in my remote line to the vertical ASA?

[b-cuzz]

If you have the velocity set too high, the regulator will vent out the back also. If that's the case, then that's part of the normal function of the Mag. Overpressure relief.

[Chikahiro]

If you have the velocity set too high, the regulator will vent out the back also. If that's the case, then that's part of the normal function of the Mag. Overpressure relief.

While I appreciate the technical response, I'm not sure I know how to parse that: I think it means "you're fine with the stock internals of the Automag," but I'm not sure.

[b-cuzz]

Nah, just that a leak out of the back doesn't necessarily mean you have a bad o-ring. These things are built with an internal over-pressure relief that vents the excess out when it's set too high. I picked up a Micromag that had sat in a dude's closet for like 2 years, and I took it home, oiled it, and gassed it up. It leaked out of the velocity adjuster hole, so I degassed it, backed it out a few turns, aired it back up, and it was fine. The silly thing still hasn't had a new o-ring in it since I bought it.

[Chikahiro]

Groovy.

The tighter in it is, the higher the velocity? So, in an effort to be thorough, I might've sabotaged myself? :D :(

Good to know. Got my HPA tank refilled, and the local field is letting me borrow a tank just so I can be sure I don't run out of air again while getting stuff done. Long weekend, and I've got Friday off to help out with a school event, so I can hopefully be playing paintball as early as Friday afternoon :3

[athomas]

You don't need to triple regulate any gun. Two regulators is all you ever need. A regulator gives a preset output but the output is often dependent on a combination of the spring and the input pressure. The spring tension is a constant, but the input pressure can vary, especially in a paintball tank regulator where it actually varies from about 4500psi down to about 800 psi of usable air. The output from the tank regulator can vary by 50psi as the tank looses pressure. So, to compensate, most guns use a second regulator to add stability. So, instead of a 3700psi change in pressure, the regulator on the gun only sees a 50psi change. Therefore, the output from the gun regulator only varies by 4 or 5 psi which equates to less than a 2 fps velocity drop from a full tank to an empty tank. Shot to shot velocity drop won't even be noticed.

The main reason we don't add extra regulators to provide more stability, is because each one acts like an air restriction and slows down the flow of air. To adequately maintain a good flow rate, you need about 200psi or greater between the input pressure and the output pressure of each regulator in the line. Even then you are still adding a delay in the air response. So, don't use any extra regulators beyond what is actually needed. Two is the optimum number for good flow rate and good regulation. Stick with the one on the bottle, and the one in the mag valve.

[Chikahiro]

Nice! Thanks for the detailed response! :D

I'm really enjoying the Automag so far, even with the challenges its presenting my newbie self. I had thought about buying Tippmann Crossover down the road*, but now? I might opt for a new Automag instead. We'll see. From what I'm understanding, I can virtually rebuilt this Classic into something pretty modern with all the parts from AGD and Tunamart :)

*reward for playing a solid year and getting under 200lbs.

[Chikahiro]

SWEET!

I've got my leaks down to two locations now: the o-ring on the remote line plug (trivial), and the macro-line plug. Well, guess I need to retry the macroline (again), but thankfully I ordered a second length of it so if it fails? I've got a backup. Once I'm done with those, I'll be able to set up a target and actually shoot it to see what else is up :D

I'm close to being done, and am quite happy with that! :D

[Chikahiro]

Leaks seem mostly fixed, at least externally. There seems to be one internally, and the power tube (?) seems to get stuck. Not sure why. Maybe I need to lubricate it more?
http://1drv.ms/1Pw6aUQ

I'll have to rewatch that video on trouble shooting.

It will fire, though! Got a number of reballs off at a back-yard target :)

edit: rewatching, and I believe it did stop leaking when I held the trigger down. So, looks like its something with the power tube.

edit 2: Bolt stick (8:40) seems to be the issue. Okay! Glad I ordered the spacers from Tunamart.

[athomas]

If the bolt is sticking forward, then your body washer is mushroomed. Just file it out so that the deformed metal is smoothed off and the hole is opened back out to its proper hole size.

Bolt stick is when it fires and resets, but not far enough to allow the sear to reset. If the spacer or spring is too short, the oring holds the bolt forward. A longer spacer will fix this. It generally won't leak when this happens unless the powertube oring is bad. If your body washer is mushroomed, you need to fix it first, as that will affect your operation.

[Chikahiro]

If the bolt is sticking forward, then your body washer is mushroomed. Just file it out so that the deformed metal is smoothed off and the hole is opened back out to its proper hole size.

Bolt stick is when it fires and resets, but not far enough to allow the sear to reset. If the spacer or spring is too short, the oring holds the bolt forward. A longer spacer will fix this. It generally won't leak when this happens unless the powertube oring is bad. If your body washer is mushroomed, you need to fix it first, as that will affect your operation.

I'm looking at the exploded view, and don't see anything called a body washer. As such, I'm not sure which part you're talking about :(

[athomas]

I'm looking at the exploded view, and don't see anything called a body washer. As such, I'm not sure which part you're talking about :(The exploded view is for the valve. The body washer is welded inside the body and separates the valve from the breach area of the body. The bolt spring rests between the front of the bolt and the body washer. The body washer is a permanent part of the body and is not removable. Sometimes it does get mushroomed a bit depending on the use of the gun throughout its life. It is easily fixed using a file to hone the hole out.

[Chikahiro]

The exploded view is for the valve. The body washer is welded inside the body and separates the valve from the breach area of the body. The bolt spring rests between the front of the bolt and the body washer. The body washer is a permanent part of the body and is not removable. Sometimes it does get mushroomed a bit depending on the use of the gun throughout its life. It is easily fixed using a file to hone the hole out.

So, this thing?
http://1drv.ms/1LexWif

Okay, I'll see what I can do. I've got files, but they're for war-gaming miniatures. And mushrooming means its getting flattened on the inside? Making that hole narrower, even if its not obvious to the naked eye?

[athomas]

That is the body washer. You should be able to tell if its mushroomed, just by looking at it. If you drop the bolt into the body, it should easily fit into the body washer without any restriction. If the bolt fits without any rubbing and the body washer is fine, then something else is out of alignment. An issue such as this is usually the body washer.

You might have to get a more robust file than one for minatures. Stainless steel is fairly hard and the inner surface is a large circle. A 1/4" round fine tooth file would be ideal.

[Chikahiro]

Hmm... seemed to drop in fine. The spring around it, though? Its brand new, and seems to be less accommodating. I didn't think to check it before, but it seems to be scraping the sides of the bolt... I wonder if it was sometimes grabbing the bolt rather than just pushing it back? Hmm... lube the outside of the bolt? I dunno...

[athomas]

Hmm... seemed to drop in fine. The spring around it, though? Its brand new, and seems to be less accommodating. I didn't think to check it before, but it seems to be scraping the sides of the bolt... I wonder if it was sometimes grabbing the bolt rather than just pushing it back? Hmm... lube the outside of the bolt? I dunno...The spring can be tight. It will expand outward as it compresses, so it shouldn't be a problem. You can wet the spring with oil to help keep it from rusting, but dry it off with a cloth. A bit of the oil residue will stay. Don't lubricate the outside of the bolt or the spring. The lubricant will transfer to the breach area and the balls which will cause them to fly erratically.

If the bolt is sliding into the body ok, then the bolt sticking forward in probably not caused by your body washer being mushroomed.

Try putting the gun together so that the valve is installed with the bolt on but without the bolt spring. Hold the trigger and tip the gun forward so that the bolt slides forward into the breach. Does it stick?

[Spider-TW]

Try putting the gun together so that the valve is installed with the bolt on but without the bolt spring. Hold the trigger and tip the gun forward so that the bolt slides forward into the breach. Does it stick?

Without gas attached. ;)

[Chikahiro]

Without gas attached. ;)

Don't you want me to get a Darwin Award? ;)

[athomas]

Yeah, I should have mentioned without gas.:) Actually, if you do have the air attached and hold the trigger, it should work fine as long as the on-off orings are good. But, to make it easier, don't attach the gas.

[Chikahiro]

Hmm... a little sticky going on. The o-ring sorta sticks out the side, so I'm wondering if I've got too large an o-ring by accident.

[athomas]

Which oring are you talking about?

[Chikahiro]

The one between the power tube tip and the valve assembly.

[athomas]

When the brass powertube tip is screwed onto the stainless powertube, there should not be any oring showing. The brass tip should sit flush against the end of the powertube. That oring is only designed to provide tension to keep the powertube tip from vibrating loose.

[Chikahiro]

When the brass powertube tip is screwed onto the stainless powertube, there should not be any oring showing. The brass tip should sit flush against the end of the powertube. That oring is only designed to provide tension to keep the powertube tip from vibrating loose.
http://1drv.ms/1PBxBfU

So I read this wrong, then? D'oh :(

[athomas]

This is what your valve should look like when assembled.

91319

If you have that oring acting as a spacer, it will throw the whole spacer distance off for your setup. You will definately get bolt stick.

[Chikahiro]

Okay, got it!

First off, miracle of miracles, my remote line plug is leaking, so I'm wondering what I did this time >_<

That said, screwing straight in fixed that. Air out the back, but pulling back on the velocity worked. Some shots had dropoff, others were fine, no bolt stick, but sometimes balls wouldn't feed even though it looked like there were in there. I still hear a *slight* bit of barrel leak as well. *le sigh*

Hopefully I'll be able to go to the field on Sunday and work more there with a steady stream of HPA. But, its getting better!

Trying to put a stock ASA on my GOG eNMEy as I didn't like the aftermarket on/off the original owner put on (refurb field rental), but don't have the screws to do so with. So... eek, guess its up to me and my Spyder if I get to play on Monday. Or, I can see if I can borrow my buddy's Crossover.

This has been tremendously satisfying, though :)